Gun experts: opinion please

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  • baddog
    So Fucking Banned
    • Apr 2001
    • 107089
    #1

    Gun experts: opinion please

    Springfield XD9, with 16 round clips. You like, dislike, never shot?
    Tags: None
    • J. Falcon
      www.AdultCopywriters.com
      • May 2006
      • 31587
      #2


      I reckon you can kill someone with it. You're good
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        • sltr
          Confirmed User
          • Dec 2002
          • 3191
          #3
          i've shot that gun at the gun club, it's a springfield, so it is quality. and you certainly want 16 rounds if you plan on self-defense with a 9mm.

          that being said, i went with the glock equivalent, the glock19, it is just as solid but a better price

          for real and certain stopping power, i'd go with a .45acp

            Comment

            • stickyfingerz
              Doin fine
              • Oct 2005
              • 24984
              #4
              Originally posted by sltr
              i've shot that gun at the gun club, it's a springfield, so it is quality. and you certainly want 16 rounds if you plan on self-defense with a 9mm.

              that being said, i went with the glock equivalent, the glock19, it is just as solid but a better price

              for real and certain stopping power, i'd go with a .45acp
              I loved my Glock 19. sold it before I moved to TN.

                Comment

                • Pete-KT
                  Workin With The Devil
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 51532
                  #5
                  Why a 9mm, im just asking because if you shoot a big guy with it its gonna slow him down but not knock him over, why not a .40 cal?

                    Comment

                    • AdPatron
                      No commissions, no fees.
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 17706
                      #6
                      Originally posted by sltr
                      i've shot that gun at the gun club, it's a springfield, so it is quality.
                      But not made by them. Croatia!

                      I do own two. One I keep with me for carry. I would suggest making improvements, like a new rod.

                        Comment

                        • geedub
                          Confirmed User
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 3489
                          #7
                          Pretty decent pistol, go with a .45ACP though I've shot both
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                            • baddog
                              So Fucking Banned
                              • Apr 2001
                              • 107089
                              #8
                              Originally posted by sltr
                              i've shot that gun at the gun club, it's a springfield, so it is quality. and you certainly want 16 rounds if you plan on self-defense with a 9mm.

                              that being said, i went with the glock equivalent, the glock19, it is just as solid but a better price
                              I am getting it at a discount price, complete with extra magazines, holsters, case, ammo. Will be about the same as the bare bones Glock.

                                Comment

                                • sltr
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Dec 2002
                                  • 3191
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by JoesTraffic
                                  But not made by them. Croatia!

                                  I do own two. One I keep with me for carry. I would suggest making improvements, like a new rod.
                                  no shit eh? i didn't realize that, i guess i assumed all SA guns were still manufactured here.

                                    Comment

                                    • AdPatron
                                      No commissions, no fees.
                                      • Apr 2003
                                      • 17706
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by Pete-KT
                                      Why a 9mm, im just asking because if you shoot a big guy with it its gonna slow him down but not knock him over, why not a .40 cal?


                                      I do like my 45 better though.

                                        Comment

                                        • AdPatron
                                          No commissions, no fees.
                                          • Apr 2003
                                          • 17706
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by sltr
                                          no shit eh? i didn't realize that, i guess i assumed all SA guns were still manufactured here.

                                          Oh yeah. Even has "croatia" stamped on the top.

                                            Comment

                                            • ungratefulninja
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Apr 2006
                                              • 682
                                              #12
                                              I have the Glock and my dad has the Springfield. I like shooting both. His Springfield has the grip safety and the trigger safety is a little different. We've owned them both for a couple years with zero issues. If you can get a better deal on the XD, I'd go for it.

                                                Comment

                                                • SkeetSkeet
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Oct 2005
                                                  • 5404
                                                  #13
                                                  own it and love it ;)

                                                  ICQ 283633188

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                                                    • pornguy
                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                      • Mar 2003
                                                      • 62910
                                                      #14
                                                      Glock is lethal tupperware.

                                                      If you want a good quality weapon that you can trust in ANY Combat condition, then you need an H and K 40.
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                                                        Comment

                                                        • Anthony
                                                          Keyboard Warrior
                                                          • Feb 2001
                                                          • 9653
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by baddog
                                                          Springfield XD9, with 16 round clips. You like, dislike, never shot?
                                                          Good weapon. What caliber and size?

                                                            Comment

                                                            • sltr
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Dec 2002
                                                              • 3191
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by pornguy
                                                              Glock is lethal tupperware.

                                                              If you want a good quality weapon that you can trust in ANY Combat condition, then you need an H and K 40.
                                                              fyi- the H K is plastic too

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Anthony
                                                                  Keyboard Warrior
                                                                  • Feb 2001
                                                                  • 9653
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by pornguy
                                                                  Glock is lethal tupperware.

                                                                  If you want a good quality weapon that you can trust in ANY Combat condition, then you need an H and K 40.
                                                                  I have an HK 40 USP. And it's a fine weapon.

                                                                  But if I want to carry a weapon that I can trust in any condition, I'd carry a GLOCK.

                                                                  This is a must if you are looking for a GLOCK to read.

                                                                  http://www.theprepared.com/index.php...ask=view&id=90

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Iscari0t
                                                                      Registered User
                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                      • 79
                                                                      #18
                                                                      It's a solid gun, and if it feels good in your hand and shoots a half-decent grouping, I'd say go with it. I like the .40 SiIGs, myself, but they're a lot pricier, and I don't know if they're worth the extra cash in this economy.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                                          best designer on GFY
                                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                                          • 30307
                                                                          #19
                                                                          9mm = 13 shots + 1 in chamber if yer frosty.

                                                                          .45 ya only got 8.

                                                                          Fact is ya only need 1 to land to make a difference.
                                                                          9mm is my choice.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • BradM
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Dec 2003
                                                                              • 3397
                                                                              #20
                                                                              I don't like to shoot a 9mm. It's far too small. For what feels like 10% more recoil you can rest your hands on a .40

                                                                              I've shot a lot of handgun brands and calibers, but not very frequently. So I am basing this off of 9mm, 40, 45 and 357 magnum. The 357 is too fucking huge and impractical for self defense IMO. The 40 or 45 is perfect.

                                                                              I've never fired specials or anything of that nature.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • AdPatron
                                                                                  No commissions, no fees.
                                                                                  • Apr 2003
                                                                                  • 17706
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by AlienQ
                                                                                  9mm = 13 shots + 1 in chamber if yer frosty.

                                                                                  We've upgraded.... 16 in the mag, 1 in the cham... 17!

                                                                                  How many 22 rounds does it take?

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • baddog
                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                      • Apr 2001
                                                                                      • 107089
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by Anthony
                                                                                      Good weapon. What caliber and size?
                                                                                      9mm, police issue is about as much as I know right now. It will be here on the 7th.

                                                                                      Originally posted by Iscari0t
                                                                                      It's a solid gun, and if it feels good in your hand and shoots a half-decent grouping, I'd say go with it. I like the .40 SiIGs, myself, but they're a lot pricier, and I don't know if they're worth the extra cash in this economy.
                                                                                      I used to have a P230, and loved it. That sucker was expensive though. I think I paid more than $500 for it, and that was 15+ years ago.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • baddog
                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                          • Apr 2001
                                                                                          • 107089
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by AlienQ
                                                                                          9mm = 13 shots + 1 in chamber if yer frosty.
                                                                                          Cops can get 16 + 1. That's what I am getting.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • sltr
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Dec 2002
                                                                                              • 3191
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              i shoot my old man's 357 when we shoot together and i pretty much have 1 shot with that fucker, the recoil is ridiculous. it is fun to shoot though

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • DirtyDanza
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                                                                  • 8375
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  I personally do not like the 9mm but the gun is a great a gun.. XD is what I carry CCW personally.. I have the xd40 sub compact..

                                                                                                  one of my partners carries a full size xd40... all and all great weapon and has won many awards

                                                                                                  go rent one and shoot it see if you like it...

                                                                                                  I have my opinions on what weapon one should carry but all and all it comes down to personal feel..

                                                                                                  I would never carry a cal that does not start with 4 to stop a human being with 1 shot keep that in mind...

                                                                                                  I'm a fantastic shot.. NRA certified expert with handguns and I highly doubt in a situation I would have the time to sight the perfect 1 shot stop with a small bullet
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                                                                                                    • DirtyDanza
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                                                                      • 8375
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                      9mm, police issue is about as much as I know right now. It will be here on the 7th.



                                                                                                      I used to have a P230, and loved it. That sucker was expensive though. I think I paid more than $500 for it, and that was 15+ years ago.
                                                                                                      when you say 9mm police issue on the XD .. the XD really does not have a police issue.. in fact in here vegas they just approved them for dps

                                                                                                      no matter what you will like the weapon.. how are you going to carry that in california with a 16 rd mag? peoples republic states 10 is most...
                                                                                                      Danza Bucks is back!!!

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                                                                                                        • baddog
                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                          • Apr 2001
                                                                                                          • 107089
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by DirtyDanza
                                                                                                          I'm a fantastic shot.. NRA certified expert with handguns and I highly doubt in a situation I would have the time to sight the perfect 1 shot stop with a small bullet
                                                                                                          I just shoot until the mag is empty. I don't care if you are down or not.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                                                                              best designer on GFY
                                                                                                              • Mar 2003
                                                                                                              • 30307
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by JoesTraffic
                                                                                                              We've upgraded.... 16 in the mag, 1 in the cham... 17!

                                                                                                              How many 22 rounds does it take?
                                                                                                              Well my SW M&P only does 10 rounds

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • baddog
                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                  • 107089
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by DirtyDanza
                                                                                                                  when you say 9mm police issue on the XD .. the XD really does not have a police issue.. in fact in here vegas they just approved them for dps

                                                                                                                  no matter what you will like the weapon.. how are you going to carry that in california with a 16 rd mag? peoples republic states 10 is most...
                                                                                                                  Maybe it is the 16 round mag that is police issue then. I can't get a CCW here anyway, so doesn't really matter if it is 10 or 16. And it is not approved at at least one PD, which is why I am getting it.
                                                                                                                  Last edited by baddog; 10-22-2008, 12:20 PM.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • sltr
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                      • 3191
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      so is the frame size different or is it just a 16 round mag? most law enforcement bureaus recommend 40 cal these days

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • sltr
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                          • 3191
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by AlienQ
                                                                                                                          Well my SW M&P only does 10 rounds
                                                                                                                          that's a nice weapon, which caliber? i've shot the .40 and the 9mm version of this gun

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                                                                                              best designer on GFY
                                                                                                                              • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                              • 30307
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by sltr
                                                                                                                              that's a nice weapon, which caliber? i've shot the .40 and the 9mm version of this gun
                                                                                                                              9MM I have always liked 9MM. I learned on a .45 though but Target Practice is a bitch with a .45 to much coil for over an hour of shooting. 9MM works alot better and the ammo is cheaper.

                                                                                                                              No one shoots in an emergency for an hour sustained swapping clips unless its warzone

                                                                                                                              And if ya using a pistol in a warzone you are in a world of hurt.

                                                                                                                              I am not a gun freak though, I just keep mine in the bedroom.
                                                                                                                              Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 10-22-2008, 12:27 PM.

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                  Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                  • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                  • 23200
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  9mm just doesn't cut it, get a dude on crank and you'll have mto empty the clip to bring him down, a S&W.40 doesn't have that problem and a Colt 45 sends them sailing backwards. I have a Model 410 S&W .40 , love it
                                                                                                                                  Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                  think about that

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                                                                                                                                    • MannyJ
                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                      • May 2008
                                                                                                                                      • 111
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      I will defiantly go with the Springfield XD9, with 16 round clips over the Glock.

                                                                                                                                      You should also check out the Walther P99.
                                                                                                                                      MannyJ
                                                                                                                                      ICQ # 452-035-880
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                                                                                                                                        • InternetIsForPorn
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Sep 2007
                                                                                                                                          • 848
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          I love my Desert Eagle... and Beretta... and the P90... and the USP... shit I have an arsenal. Great for shooting beavers, hate those fuckers chopping down my trees that fall on the wires.

                                                                                                                                          Never used a Springfield though.

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • GT-Omar
                                                                                                                                              DM at Performive.com
                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2006
                                                                                                                                              • 2968
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by MannyJ
                                                                                                                                              You should also check out the Walther P99.
                                                                                                                                              That's what I have in full black, but here's a pic. Best gun I have ever shot. It comes in a 9mm, and a .40 cal I have the .40, and have shot the 9mm, and there is hardly any difference in the shot.

                                                                                                                                              Last edited by GT-Omar; 10-22-2008, 12:40 PM.


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                                                                                                                                                • DirtyDanza
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                  • 8375
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                                  Maybe it is the 16 round mag that is police issue then. I can't get a CCW here anyway, so doesn't really matter if it is 10 or 16. And it is not approved at at least one PD, which is why I am getting it.
                                                                                                                                                  in california you can only carry 10rds max ccw or no ccw.. for anything... when you buy guns elswhere it says on the box not legal in california...
                                                                                                                                                  Danza Bucks is back!!!

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                                                                                                                                                    • MannyJ
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • May 2008
                                                                                                                                                      • 111
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by GT-Omar
                                                                                                                                                      That's what I have in full black, but here's a pic. Best gun I have ever shot. It comes in a 9mm, and a .40 cal I have the .40, and have shot the 9mm, and there is hardly any difference in the shot.


                                                                                                                                                      I have owned one for over four years, fired couple thousand rounds and it never has jammed..
                                                                                                                                                      MannyJ
                                                                                                                                                      ICQ # 452-035-880
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                                                                                                                                                        • baddog
                                                                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                          • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                          • 107089
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by DirtyDanza
                                                                                                                                                          in california you can only carry 10rds max ccw or no ccw.. for anything... when you buy guns elswhere it says on the box not legal in california...
                                                                                                                                                          Unless you are a cop.

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • DirtyDanza
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                              • 8375
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                                              Unless you are a cop.
                                                                                                                                                              make sure you got your badge on you if you get stopped
                                                                                                                                                              Danza Bucks is back!!!

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                                                                                                                                                                • baddog
                                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                                  • 107089
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by DirtyDanza
                                                                                                                                                                  make sure you got your badge on you if you get stopped
                                                                                                                                                                  Shops can only sell them to cops. Cops can give gifts.

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                                                                                                                                                                    • AndreaM
                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2008
                                                                                                                                                                      • 174
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      SigSauer 9mm P229 DAK 20 round mag
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                                                                                                                                                                        • mikesouth
                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                                                                          • 6340
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          to all the people saying a 9mm has insufficient stopping power...well yer all idiots.

                                                                                                                                                                          If you cant put a 9MM hollow point in the guys head at 30 feet you shouldnt be shooting anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                          It isn't the size of the bullet that matters, it's the placement, at least with handguns.

                                                                                                                                                                          You should be more concerned about the accuracy of the weapon and it's effective range, these weapons aren't much good at any distance, if you want better accuracy over a longer distance go for a wheel gun with a longer barrel.
                                                                                                                                                                          Mike South

                                                                                                                                                                          It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

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                                                                                                                                                                            • sandman!
                                                                                                                                                                              Icq: 14420613
                                                                                                                                                                              • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                                                              • 15427
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              i got one next time your in chicago we can go to the range and you can try it out.
                                                                                                                                                                              Need WebHosting ? Email me for some great deals [email protected]

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                                                                                                                                                                                • baddog
                                                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 107089
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by mikesouth
                                                                                                                                                                                  to all the people saying a 9mm has insufficient stopping power...well yer all idiots.

                                                                                                                                                                                  If you cant put a 9MM hollow point in the guys head at 30 feet you shouldnt be shooting anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                  It isn't the size of the bullet that matters, it's the placement, at least with handguns.

                                                                                                                                                                                  You should be more concerned about the accuracy of the weapon and it's effective range, these weapons aren't much good at any distance, if you want better accuracy over a longer distance go for a wheel gun with a longer barrel.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Are you suggesting that it isn't much good for snipers?

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • sandman!
                                                                                                                                                                                      Icq: 14420613
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 15427
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by sltr
                                                                                                                                                                                      no shit eh? i didn't realize that, i guess i assumed all SA guns were still manufactured here.
                                                                                                                                                                                      The XD line is just sold my springfield they never made them has allways been the same plan in croatia making them....
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                                                                                                                                                                                        • baddog
                                                                                                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 107089
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by sandman!
                                                                                                                                                                                          i got one next time your in chicago we can go to the range and you can try it out.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, my next visit will be when it is cold out there, so hope it is an indoor range.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • sperbonzo
                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd rather be on my boat.
                                                                                                                                                                                              • May 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 9750
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by mikesouth
                                                                                                                                                                                              to all the people saying a 9mm has insufficient stopping power...well yer all idiots.

                                                                                                                                                                                              If you cant put a 9MM hollow point in the guys head at 30 feet you shouldnt be shooting anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                              It isn't the size of the bullet that matters, it's the placement, at least with handguns.

                                                                                                                                                                                              You should be more concerned about the accuracy of the weapon and it's effective range, these weapons aren't much good at any distance, if you want better accuracy over a longer distance go for a wheel gun with a longer barrel.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I would submit that in a combat situation, the chances of getting a clean head shot fast are not very good, between the less than perfect situation, (re: lighting, movement, body position, etc...), and the fact that your adrenal glands are pumping like fire hoses, your shot placement accuracy will drop on average of AT LEAST 20%.

                                                                                                                                                                                              (Speaking here as ex-army, ex-MCSO reserve deputy, and having read a bit on the subject).

                                                                                                                                                                                              With all that being said, I personally carry a Ruger P90 .45acp. Built like a boat anchor, never had a stoppage, always goes where I point it.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                • sandman!
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Icq: 14420613
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 15427
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, my next visit will be when it is cold out there, so hope it is an indoor range.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  for an outdoor one would have to drive to Indiana

                                                                                                                                                                                                  i got a indoor range 10 min's from home here there are probably a few around goodgirl also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Need WebHosting ? Email me for some great deals [email protected]

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    • sltr
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 3191
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by mikesouth
                                                                                                                                                                                                      to all the people saying a 9mm has insufficient stopping power...well yer all idiots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you cant put a 9MM hollow point in the guys head at 30 feet you shouldnt be shooting anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      It isn't the size of the bullet that matters, it's the placement, at least with handguns.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You should be more concerned about the accuracy of the weapon and it's effective range, these weapons aren't much good at any distance, if you want better accuracy over a longer distance go for a wheel gun with a longer barrel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      you have no idea what you are talking about. let's see you get woken up at 3 am, stumble out of bed and zero in on a 8x8 inch target at 30 feet and nail it in 1 shot, in any # of shots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      bottom line, the best home protection weapon is a shotgun, such as my remington 880

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