Trained fighters, inside please......

I can tell you what is different.. Normal for you, is no adrenaline, and when you have it you have learned to control it.

Normal for me, or once was, was almost max adrenaline all the time, so that was normal, it was under control in my mind as I didn't know it wasn't normal. A "fix" for me, was to do extreme sports, or just extremely stupid shit. It would bring me back up to the peak, making me feel calm, like I just got a fix from a drug.

I'm very different than you, you have the luxury of being able to be social, do what you want in public, fight, train... I can't do that anymore, I don't respond the same way. Days afterwards my mind is just twisted for the rush of the drug, I'm fine to train, just not fine to be social afterwards, I can't come down from the high like you..

i am going to be respectful because some good friends of mine are contractors for blackwater and triple canopy.. they are exactly what you are describing, but they are fucked up.. they are not normal or the same people anymore and frankly I dont feel comfortable around them without a loaded weapon..

if you truly feel the way you say, then you need some serious mental help and I dont mean that in a derogatory way..

i will never try to understand what people see and feel in a combat situation, but i can clearly see the mental damage combat does...

do yourself and the world a favor and go seek some help,,, what you are feeling inside is not normal and will need to be vented at some point...


and BTW, the guy who claims to bite throats out is full of shit and delusional...

Shartzer vs Fedor

That promises to be a nail bitter!!

No fears.. I'm not who I once was, even though it is still within me. It's something I was born with, that wasn't understood until I was in my mid 20's, but was set off while in the Marines.

I have been out 12 years, and calm the last 7... I was medically discharged, for mental issues, I have spent time in the ward. I get no VA benefits because I went to work for myself rather than on drugs that made my brain go mush, that was the 'help' they wanted to give me.

I'm good today, I just try to avoid situations that bother me, not for safety but just because it sucks for me. Like, I don't like to get surprised by events unknown, like someone showing up without calling can set off my adrenaline. Not in a bad way, it just sucks trying to calm down for the next day over nothing.

if you can truly control yourself without drugs and can interact with society without feeling the need to commit violence, I would really like you to talk to one of my friends when he gets home in a month or two..

he sounds alot like you except for he cant let go of the rage unless he does drugs...

maybe you could help him... its very said to see a good friend in a position in life where his friends dont want to be around him anymore because of his mental state...

My ex wife is going through something similliar right now, her fiancee suffers from PTSD after his last stint in Afghanistan as a Corpsman. The anger, rage, and depression is pretty intense. I saw it firsthand last Christmas when he went after his brother. He was medicated with the shit from the VA, and then self medicating with Alcohol.

My ex told me they split up for good a couple of days ago, over it all.

set off? how do you know it wasnt greatly implified while in the marines and not just set off? The % of soldiers developing mental problems while serving in the army is off the hook...

It's different for everyone, what they did, what they saw, what evils they take back with them, at a deep personal level.

What worked for me, may not work for others. A big factor for me was something simple. The question of WHY. Why was I mad, anger, upset, whatever. I would answer with excuses at first, to justify it to myself.. after awhile, I couldn't answer my own question.

Once I was able to do this, I was able to be helped by others. I would allow the help, listen to others, and so on. The only thing I can say that brought me to where I am today is my business partner and my wife. Without them, I would still be lost.

With your friend, you can ask him why and you can wait.. and once he finally breaks, then you step in as a friend, get his family, and everyone rebuilds him - reteaches him, love.

yeah.. its pretty hard for me to understand.. this guy was a good friend but he's just different now.. i try to be reassuring to him, but he's like a ticking time bomb.

its seems like the only comfort he has now is when he is in iraq or afghanistan.

when he comes home, he cant sit still for very long and he needs to self medicate, but even then he's unpredictable and has wild mood swings.

i can't say a lot here because i'm sure the stuff he showed me isnt stuff i should see, but it makes me wonder how many people are just as messed up as he is...

his situation has really opened my eyes to the damage that people suffer when they are subjected to combat situations..

he's not there yet in terms of self awareness and trying to talk to him about it just puts him in a defensive and withdrawn position.

i'm the last person to abandon a friend when in need, but its really difficult to watch someone go through the pain he has and feel so helpless not knowing how to help him..

Learn how to hadouken, yoga flame, and sonic boom, and you'll be good to go.

I knew you were a snowflake!!!!!>;-))

I'd like to say one thing here in defense of something I apparently shoulda kept to myself, I got in a bad fight with a real big fucking guy (He hit me 'cause I bumped into him by accident in a club.)
I was loosing and getting hurt bad, the guy was huge an opportunity presented itself to me. My brain said hey seems like a good idea I guess. I bit the guy on the side of the neck and the fight stopped. Whats the problem getting your head around that. I didn't say I'm a cobat bite master of long tooth kung fu.

Li love it!! Bite-Fu.. I want to learn that one..

Wouldn't they go for a kick in your head while you are underground holding one of them on top?

No disrespect, just curious and sorry for a bump

I'd say the question depends on the urgency. If you (or someone) needs to learn quickly how defensive/offensive techniques that are immediately effective and that can be learned quickly.. there is no substitute for western boxing. Anyone can learn to punch, duck, slip etc and hit properly fairly quickly. Anything else takes a lot of time. If time is not an issue... there is nothing like Muay Thai for causing damage to another and you're right there. Its just a matter of having the time to be good. A capable person could be pretty decent if they trained 3-4 hrs a day, 5 days a week for 6 months. Depends on where you train and who with and whether or not they are covering ALL techniques or effective techniques.

I'm not a trained fighter, but for outdoors, i suggest you to learn how to run
big plus: it works against multiple opponents...
Of course: indoors it's shit

I'm not a trained fighter, but I've watched Steven Segal movies. Kempo is mainly counter moves and would therefore be considered "defensive".

Mua thai in a month? So take any bullied highschool kid, teach him for a month and now he is over the top and beating the ones who used to beat on him?

I mean what can you learn in a month? Basic moves?
There is a thread on one forum where muay thai guys discuss what issues they got on the streets. And they got plenty while most of them having much more than a month of training.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying it is contradicting statement to what I read elsewhere.

I've never seen an unarmed street fight. Competitive fighters are the only people who fight unarmed. Every street fight I've ever witnessed quickly resulted in someone grabbing a bottle, pulling keys out of their pocket, having a weapon on them, or reaching for something before sucker punching someone.

If you want to win competitive fights you'll need to have at least some wrestling, and the more well rounded you are the better off you are (until you get to the pro level where people are simply genetically superior to 99.9999% of the population).

In the street, avoid a fight at all reasonable costs, and if you do have to fight be the one who weaponizes first.

btw what the best martial art/self defense technic to defend yourself against weapons ?

I have been in martial arts for probably 30+ years and with my fighting skill and sheer physical size I would run away if I could if somebody drew a knife, end of story...no need to talk about guns

Its really really really not like in the movies, you will probably get stabbed if you try to disarm somebody with a knife so running away is always a great choice...

running away and coming back with a gun is the best case scenario...

if you can not run away you will just have to be a tough mother fucker about it and count on getting cut and stabbed a bit you must really really have the fight in you, and then you can maybe not bleed out and get cut too much if you commit to breaking his leg or gouging his eye out real early...you do not want to dance around against a knife for too long LOL

just practice running away

Even if the guy (or lets say even a woman in some kitchen fight) is completely novice and first timer at swinging the knife? Like one missed swing and you go in with tackle or whatever?

there are people that fight for points , then there are people that fight for their life, never confuse the two. There are no rules outside the ring. No judge to break it up and no weight class to keep it fair.

Wow, that's some old topic. Did DWB ever need to defend himself ?

do you want to win the fight? then why risk getting cut? you can bleed out to death ...knives are unpredictable, you should never underestimate somebody who is in panic or in a state of mind to stab you...just run away and come back with a gun if you want to win 100%

Of course there is no need to risk getting stabbed. Just curious out of the theoretical principle - how hard it would be to tackle/hit someone who is first time knife swinger. Like what would be the chances in theory.

Mike Tyson.

I don't know, but in old army manual there is a move to disarm enemy with a bayonet (on gun). Doing something is always better than just put to dead, but changes might not be the best ones.

Here you go:



More in here. About knives too.

US Marine Corps - Close Combat Manual: 3 - Hand-held Weapons

What about sambo. I am reading that it combines the most effective things from judo+jujitsu+bjj.

we can suppose that the answer is also function of the teacher...

btw what's your opinion on ninjutsu ?
is this out of topic ?

None taken. Good question.

Take a look on how fast you can actually do an arm lock. It was so fast that the guy that got it locked on, felt the tap faster than the ref was able to stop it. No Tap=Broken arm.




Here is another arm lock thats average speed in BJJ but lighting fast on the street.




And here it is at the kids level. Keep in mind orange belt is less than blue and blue is 10+ years away from black.




Here is a good trick with any attacker when you are on the ground. Its called a but scoot. You see it a lot in the UFC when one guy is on the ground and the other doesn't want to got there.


You can easily use it in a multiple attacker situation. Siting on your but; you can spin left and right faster than any person can get to your back to "Try" and kick you in the head.


I would teach this in class with 2, 3, and 4 attackers. Had a variety of skilled kicks, trips and moves from the butt scoot. This information isn't shit I read about, its things that I actually taught. The techniques works way easier than trying to explain how it works.




Here is a butt scoot with an attack and finish;




Now these are just a few techniques out of thousands and thousands of attack and defence combinations. These are Techniques done against others that know the same techniques.


Now put these same people against people who know nothing and are clueless on how to defend themeless. Now lets up the Anti a bit; Now put 4 someones who knows nothing and put them against somebody who weighs 220 with 15+ years of serious BJJ+MMA experience. The kind of experience where I am paying my bills and making a living teaching people how to do these things; "Type of experience."


Fortunately for me, my multiple attacker experiences, always turned out very well for me. Was zero stress and it felt like ripping apart students in a class. Please keep in mind I'm the very 1st person to try and defuse a situation with a hand shake or an "Im Sorry".


Only one time I looked for 'it" and it felt Soooo good to seriously unload!! But thats another story....




Another example of one skilled guy and multiple attackers was: Years back, War-machine at a porn party. People can say what ever they want about that night. He got surrounded by a bunch of guys that wanted to tell him "how it is;" And he didn't want to listen. He ripped every guy that came up to him. People went to the hospital that night. (Not Saying it was right) But if the people involved called the police, nobody approached him in a threatening manner or people minded their own business that night, nothing would have happened.

One very well trained guy or fighter versus a group of guys not trained; The trained guy who spends hours per day, 6 days a week learning how to hurt people more efficiently, will always be the victor.


I am no tough guy, no fighter, I just happened to 1st generation American BJJ players/Fighters and 1st generation American BJJ Black belts who fell into making a living teaching BJJ to MMA guys for a living. I happened to do it for a long time.




Just Dave

so the goal of BJJ is to be able to bear the weight of your body with your head ?
While it's spectacular, i seriously doubt of the efficiency of this technic irl.
Instead of resisting, while don't they just put forward one of their foot (to use it for example to press on the other's throat or help the opponent to fall as heavily as possible on the back of his head ?)

I don't attack a guy on the floor: in real life i go away, find a stone and i throw it...
Yeah stay on the floor at low speed...

It sounds easy not having a clue on the dynamics of the actual moves.


You can say what ever you want about what ever you "Think"; When I talk its from experience and actually doing it.


I have done a shit ton of challenge matches with people that came to the school, how many have you done? Whats your authority? UFC fan? Seen it done on a video? Anything?


If you ever come to LA, feel free to contact me. Will show you politely and respectfully what I am talking about from my 24 years of training pro fighters, law enforcement, Special forces, other branches of the military, etc. Its nothing that words can really describe, you need to feel it.


Or you can just ask Anthony. Ask him his experience when we wrestled. And Anthony way knows what he was doing. Was able to dominate him with out even trying to submit him. He was throwing up when we were done. That was absolutely not my intention.



Yea of corse you would. There are always big stones in a parking lot, grassy park, a club, on the side of the road.


I see you like to start fights???

Sitting and attacking from the ground, is a defensive technique that can also be used as a counter offense. Its not designed to go out and start fights.

You have obviously never been in any kind of street altercations. And thats fine, but to talk as if you know what you are talking about is pretty funny.


Nice example of someone defending a technique of an opponent who is at his level of technical fighting ability.


Everything I am talking about if you re-read what I posted is Skilled versus not skilled. In a street situation I absolutely promise you if you are being attacked its not going to be from a skilled person. Skilled fighters, people in martial arts don't go out and start fights.


Just Dave

Someone tried once this "powerful technique" on me, while i've indeed not a single shit of experience in martial art:



you see that at some moment the guy use his arm to protect the speed of his fall, i just used my legs to remove the support of his body and i "helped" him to fall on his head.
(i have also very strong legs*)
Wow how specular: this guy who attacked me nearly by surprise went to the hospital...I even thought that it was some kind of the joke (before the era of internet).
And your technique looks just like something like that
Then i could write write and write again, it's useless since... i've never experienced something like that irl...
It's perhaps effective in the real life, but i just express my doubts on the effectiveness of this technique because i notice i monstrous weakness (however i know that it very easy to bleed from your head, especially if your head rubs the asphalt)

* i dare to claim it: probably much stronger that the average martial artist that doesn't run or use a bike very often

I wonder how often can you get broken arms (or something else) when training?
I keep reading this "tap or else you get it broken" and I am wondering - how come you could not get it broken even before the tap if your opponent applies too much pressure right away?

From reading this "no tap = broken" it looks like opponent applies certain amount of pressure and keeps pressuring till the break. But what if he applies more than the breaking point right away?

Just a noob question from someone who did not grapple ever and is worried about breaks during training.

I knew someone who was a Tae Kwan Do expert, and he said "Tae Kwan Do will be no good if you go up against someone who knows Tae Kwan Crazy".

Also, what do you think about a combo of box/thai box in terms of street fight and especially those multiple attacker situations? I know you are BJJ fan, but objectively speaking. Somehow I imagine striking would work better if you have more than 1 thug on you. After all you said that you need 4 years of BJJ in order to do what you did, while if you have lets say 1 year BJJ and 6 months muay thai you would be better of by striking first?

it's a french accent for me :p

This has Zero on what I am talking about. I do know this leg sweep, I have used it, but not my choice move for anything street. I don't use it in trading hardly ever Do to high risk of knee injuries from other students wanting to try it after I do it; keeps me from even using it in a group class situation.

I have so many other options that I would prefer over this one. But thats the beauty of having 24 years experience in BJJ and MMA; Choices!! I always have the Right tool for the right job!!




Would never choose this as something to do on the street. Keeping it basic is definitely the right choice on the street. Those "pull guard arm quick bars" and flying arm bars are pretty easy basic stuff. Any one with 6 month trying can do them. and anyone who has trained 6 month can fall right and can feel+predict how the ground hit is going to feel.


There are so many moves I choose not to do when on concrete fighting on concrete. I will use a shit ton of Judo and greco wrestling over freestyle wrestling when looking for a take down in the clinch. Judo and Greco are a lot of uper body throws. Very effective in the clinch.


Single legs and double legs you will scratch your knees on the concrete every time(Which I have done, Sux!). Ruin your pants every time. Thats why I choose not to use the when on concrete.


And so am I.

I trained compatibly in Kick boxing and western boxing before I ever gotten into BJJ. I have gotten into the ring at my prime with 135 and 145 pound pro boxers and muay thai guys for sparing and gotten my ass whooped!! I mean whooped!! All of my strength and size was completely useless when we were on our feet.


I am excellent at wrestling and trained a lot of wrestling with All American level college wrestlers, Olympic level wrestlers weighing 165 and gotten dumped off of my feet 35 to 1 times. Was way bigger and way stronger, didn't seem to matter. Was very discouraging at times. Their techniques and their speed nullified everything I had when we were on our feet. When we hit the ground, it was all me!! Would get the submissions within a minute.


Why is this?? Because the guys I trained with in boxing, wrestling, muay thai were all experts within their respective art. When your that much better than your opponent thats across from you, size and streanght absolutely does not matter.


Once again this is not something I read or "Thought", it is something I did and spent a great deal of time doing.


Randomly:

Here is something I found online. This is a video of my buddy Jon Marsh doing a challenge match with some Karate Clown. There was absolutely no rules! Biting, growing shots and eye gouges were allowed. This clip was very real. There was 10k on this fight. Each side put up 10K to see who would win.

John wins by snapping the arm and shoulder of the other guy to end it. Johns face was all scratched up, because of the eye gouge attacks.


This is a perfect example of this karate guys theory not quite working out the way he "Told" everyone it would. He talked about it, wrote about it and bragged about it; 10K down, One broken arm+shoulder later, he learned that his theory was wrong.






Just Dave

yep, a blade or a gun is a good reason to run, and i hate to run.

Excellent question.

When you are training in a class or group situation, you treat your trying partners like gold. You can train hard, but when you know what you are doing and you are training with others that know what they are doing, you know if you are at the "Hurt somebody limit".


Nobody tries to hurt you or hurt others. Its not good for business. "Knowing something" means anyone with a month or more experience. The higher level students will alway help the lower level students. Its a team environment, you don't hurt your team.


Not saying nobody has every gotten hurt in class. Its never the newbs. Its always the students at the higher end. Usually students 3+ years of experience. Its always because they knew they were trapped and did not want to "tapout" in front of the class. Its all ego driven stuff, that causes the injuries. Never due to students trying to hurt each other.


Me, you catch me and my shit is going to pop, I'm tapping out. 10 years ago, not a chance!! I was always very good at getting that split second escape with the risk of injury during the whole escape. lol


Had to back to the beginning of this thread. I had story with 5 on 1 situation that I don't really share, because it sounds like bull shit. Wanted to see if I shared it or did not share it. And I did not. lol



I am 100% BJJ. But Im a big fan of kick boxing, and western boxing. Stand up is my preferred weapon of choice. Kick boxing with shin to thigh checks to be more exact. That is my way preferred weapons of choice over BJJ. I very good on my feet.


I am literally a BJJ expert, but Im always trying everything and anything combat at all times. One thing for sure, 24 years of BJJ only gets quite boring.


I always start on my feet and will prefer to stay there if I have a choice. Fortunately for me, where ever the fight goes Im cool with it.


In my opinion: Today where ever you train, make sure its a place you can learn a bit of everything.


Just Dave

This!!! Mostly.

As one grows older fighting styles such as Muay Thai that punish ones body on a daily basis become more difficult to do. BJJ is something that one can do 'till very old. In fact BJJ will help you to grow old.
Krav Maga and Kali etc..... are no-nonsense systems of person to person warfare, they require speed and accuracy which only comes with daily practice. These too become less effective with advanced age.
Also, if you use some of the techniques in Krav Maga, Muay Thai etc..... you may be in for a costly legal battle after you pluck the guys eye out in a bar.
If you are not planning to do Jason Bourne spy stuff or pissing off lots of people and fighting for you life.... Then BJJ with some of the others mentioned above thrown in here and there for stand up knowledge will suffice.
Is BJJ the best and only martial art you should learn? No. It is the best first martial art to learn as 99.9% of all fights go to the ground and that's where BJJ rules all.
Since BJJ hit the scene flaws in most martial arts training have become clear. Unless a sucker punch Knock out happens, it's going to the ground.

This is one of those moves that was invented because it looked cool. I learned this in Gung Fu when I was a kid. Glad I wasn't stupid enough to try it in a fight.

It's proper Judo name is Kani Basami. It's been outlawed in Judo for some time due to ankles and knees being injured.

It's not new, in any way, shape or form. I remember my first Judo tournament we were told at our level not to use it.

Remember, BJJ stands for "Basically Just Judo".

give a friend a banana and tell him to stab you with it...try and evade and block and "jason bourne" it ...try to improvise , wrap a sweater around your hand or grab another banana and have a imaginary knife fight...wear protective goggles LOL...

the reality of the situation will sink in quick

correct, Steven Segal is a defensive attacker. Aikido & Jujitsu for defence.

Muay thai, thai boxing & kickboxing are all great offensive martial arts.

My partner's a black belt in Moo Duk Kwan, although totally loves training in his Muay Thai lessons, hands up, open arms, willing the opponent to come in to an open body, knees & elbows ready to do damage.

Depends the tradesman