I hate to break it too you and it may not matter but McCain won the debate

I have looked it up, and they don't pay for themselves.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...in_higher.html

http://www.ocpp.org/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=cp0603

http://www.cbpp.org/3-8-06tax.htm

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/0...or-themselves/


Sure tax revenues eventually increase, but that's because our population and tax base grow every year. Revenues would have been substantially higher had those tax cuts not been enacted.

Tax revenues went up substantially more under Clinton than they did under Reagan, or under Bush.

I agree with the spending....so let's start by not spending $10 billion a month in Iraq anymore.

Most of the "spending' Obama is proposing are on things that will save us money in the long term.

Investing in renewable energy sources so that we're not dependent on foreign oil. Not having to pay $4 a gallon for gas would be a boon to the economy.

Fixing the health care system and getting everyone coverage, because it will be cheaper for all of us when the uninsured stop going to emergency rooms for free treatment.

When it comes to politics you come off as an ideologue, but as a successful businessman I'm sure you're also a pragmatist. As a pragmatist I'm sure you would have to agree that some things you disagree with from an idealogical standpoint are still the right and practical thing to do.

Why don't you just say Obama is a Socialist and you don't like that. That would be understandable.

Obama is talking about cutting Gov services we don't need, reducing others, cleaning house in that way to free up money. "Reducing Gov" Which is a major amount of money.

As well as stopping 10b a month going out into one war. Then reducing tax on some people, closing tax holes that are abused by corps, then reducing the tax again in those areas. He has explained where, what, and even how - I'm just not going to type that much here.

Then to bring in more money, jobs, ect to cover the cleanup, he wants to advance forward into Energy Technology. (the new i.t.) Which could and should be a major building block for our Economy over next decade.

I don't really understand how you could be confused about what Obama has said, how he would get the money and how he plans on doing it. He has been saying the same thing for months. And just the "basic" areas he is talking about frees up far more than enough money to cover his social ideas.


The bush "Tax cuts" paid for itself because it taxed the middle class more. Look it up.

I agree. But wouldn't you support a Democratic President then? The last 3 Republican Presidents have signed off on massive spending and increased our national debt exponentially. The last Democratic President had a massive surplus.

Seems the best combo would be a Democratic President and Republican Congress.

Actually, McCain hired some of the same guys that Bush had fucking him in 2000 to be part of his campaign...gives you an idea about where the attacks that are coming out now come from.

I think Obama's quote during last night's election says it all. This is after McCain tried to explain his rendition of Obama's tax plan:

I disagree with the opinions of the links you posted.

irrelevant. the economic boom of the internet, housing, etc. had nothing to do with clinton (or the republican congress) it was a simple thing of right place right time.

I'd prefer to recoup our losses by taking iraqi oil but thats just me. it was a huge blunder to not pay for the war with iraqi oil

mccain and obama have the same plan here.

This is entirely untrue and another boondogle the american people are about to swallow.
If a store announces that bread is now free? who won't take a free loaf of bread?
no different than medical care. Make it free and the guy who goes to the doctor once a year, now goes 5 times a year because, well, its free.
All of obama's projections of costs are idiotic because he didn't factor in what happens with human nature over the concept of "free"
this is the ugly side of false promises. we'll have a second Social Security we can't possibly pay for. then what? shall we tax the rich again?

I always do the right and practical thing.
pretending that health care is some sort of god given right and should be free for everyone is not practical or right.
raising taxes on the rich to placate your democratic base is not practical or right.
the entire country should should feel the pain of political spending then perhaps the poor would stop voting for more and more spending.

I'm not confused. you're simply gulled by his fairy tale.
he is cutting nothing of significance and you're simply fooled by his talk of evil corporations and quick exit from iraq.

and you're dead wrong about Bush's tax cuts. its a shame.
only among democratic kool aide drinkers is an across the board tax cut seen as a "tax cut for the rich" or that they were paid for by taxing the middle class more.
it goes beyond sad, its pathetic.

I'd be willing to give it a shot but thats not what we'd have. we'd have a democratic president and a democratic congress. expecting them to show any type of fiscal responsibility other than raising more taxes is silly in my opinion.

What do you consider a God given right as a citizen of this country?

Those were hardly all opinion pieces....especially the first one. It was an independent fact checking organization that has been just as hard on both sides and doesn't publish opinion pieces.

If you want to continue to believe that lowering taxes increases revenue, then I suppose you have that right, but if you continue to believe in that "fairy tale" then you really have no business telling the rest of us we're delusional.

At this point arguing further is futile, because even in the face of overwhelming evidence you're not willing to admit the major flaw in your ideology as it pertains to taxes.

What fairy tale? I never said I was voting for Obama or bought into anything either have said, I simply repeated it. You appear confused on what Obama is doing, I cleared it up.

Under the Bush tax cut, millions of Americans, mostly upper-middle class, paid extra tax every year since his tax cut. His net balance of the cut vs the increase in other areas, did not actually decrease taxes. That is a fact and you can look it up.

I never heard Obama say any thing about evil corps. Just that CEO's getting multi-million dollar bonuses after bankruptcy is bs, which it is - I wouldn't get a bonus if my company went bankrupt. And the true fact that our Companies do pay less tax than almost any nation because of the loop holes that also get us into trouble. Not evil - just logical.

I don't see what the issue is with taxing the upper classes more. I'm not rich but I'm not in the middle class either. I have no issues paying more tax. I support, supporting our lower classes and people that can't afford to pay for basic things of life, like medical care.


Even my family, I make plenty of money, decent size company. And I can not afford to have my wife in my Insurance policy. She can not, ever, get a policy on her own, even Bill Gates couldn't afford it. She can ONLY work for major Corporations or nobody can bring her on. The cost of her medical care is more than my house.

So yeah, tax me more, tax you more, tax all us higher income people more. They would have to tax me 80% for it not to be worth it on my end. So I fully support it, fully support social health care. And I support higher income people/companies paying for it.

Onlything I know is McCain isn't correcting a damn thing and at least Obama has a half ass game plan/idea that 'if' he pulled it off would actually help the Country. Otherwise, who cares, we are fucked all around either way.

Hate to break it to you but as a partisan your opinion on the debate means squat. Same as an Obama partisans wouldn't mean squat. With partisans like you practically nothing McCain says or does would make you not vote for them. Same for Obama partisans. What matters is what undecideds, GOP leaners and Dem leaners thought about who won the debate. THEY are the ones who will decide the election.

when people are shown facts they dont like seeing they either A) say those are just opinions or B) (when "a" fails) start a response with "well in my opinion..."

agreed.

Anyone who votes for a Republican OR a Democrat needs to have their fucking head examined...

You all STILL can't see what they are doing?