"must have guns, go to war, believe in god" rationale. Please explain

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  • StuartD
    Sofa King Band
    • Jul 2002
    • 29903
    #1

    "must have guns, go to war, believe in god" rationale. Please explain

    I am a little lost on this one... I mean, I get that religious types are driven to war a lot, they aren't prejuidiced... they just hate anyone not in their group.

    But still, I don't quite get how people can be so god fearing, so afraid of sinning and going to hell.... but then rush out to buy as many guns as they can and push for more war.

    Here we have the other "wing" of thinkers who have no fear of god's wrath, no guilt of what could come... total free thinking, do as you please sinners that, for what ever reason, doesn't want guns around... doesn't want war... doesn't want to go killing as many other people as they can.

    Murder is a big no no in each interpretation of the commandments, and yet it seems to be encouraged so much so long as the person you're murdering is of some other faith....
    or trespassing.

    I just don't get it. Can someone explain it?
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    • GigoloShawn
      Confirmed User
      • Oct 2007
      • 700
      #2
      Originally posted by StuartD
      I just don't get it. Can someone explain it?
      You flunked History, didn't you?

      Every war where one is offered to convert or die is done in the name of religion, because that makes a very good (if thin) veil for conquering. See also: The Crusades.

      We haven't had one of those in quite awhile, though. officially. To be blunt: If you can get knowledge ahead of time of what people believe, or you can brainwash them into believing, they'll do anything for "the better good", and if not, how about, oh.. 70 virgins. See also: 9/11.
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        • StuartD
          Sofa King Band
          • Jul 2002
          • 29903
          #3
          Originally posted by StuartD
          I get that religious types are driven to war a lot, they aren't prejuidiced... they just hate anyone not in their group.
          Originally posted by GigoloShawn
          You flunked History, didn't you?
          No.
          45678
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            • GigoloShawn
              Confirmed User
              • Oct 2007
              • 700
              #4
              Originally posted by StuartD
              No.
              45678
              Religion does not equate xenophobe, but it doesn't hurt.
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                • LadyMischief
                  Orgasms N Such!
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 18135
                  #5
                  Don't forget, Religion has been one of the primary causes of war and genocide throughout the entire history of mankind.

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                    • IllTestYourGirls
                      Ah My Balls
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 14311
                      #6
                      Men bent on control and conquest will use any excuse to do so. Religion is just a vehicle to get there. Think of it as a soccer riot.

                        Comment

                        • Deputy Chief Command
                          Deputy Chief Command
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 4482
                          #7
                          Originally posted by IllTestYourGirls
                          Men bent on control and conquest will use any excuse to do so. Religion is just a vehicle to get there. Think of it as a soccer riot.
                          we have a winner!

                            Comment

                            • sltr
                              Confirmed User
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 3191
                              #8
                              you are trying to apply rationale to something that is inheritently irrational, won't work.

                                Comment

                                • Odin
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jan 2004
                                  • 2545
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by LadyMischief
                                  Don't forget, Religion has been one of the primary causes of war and genocide throughout the entire history of mankind.
                                  True, but that statement is so overused and exaggerated it is not even funny. For one, even religion has been a tool for convincing the masses to go to war at times, it often has not been the "primary cause". Secondly a HELL of a lot more wars and death have occurred at the hands of atheists, or the non-religious than the religious. WWII come to mind? WWI? The USSR, Vietnam? Korea? Just about any number of the thousands upon thousands of wars between tribes and empires throughout human history. Religion has been just a tiny catalyst in it all.
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                                    • StuartD
                                      Sofa King Band
                                      • Jul 2002
                                      • 29903
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by sltr
                                      you are trying to apply rationale to something that is inheritently irrational, won't work.
                                      I think you're right. Thou shalt not kill seems to be a guideline, not a rule.... but "thou shalt worship no other but me" is something worth killing others over.

                                      Perhaps it's because these people know how likely it is that they'll get shot by some other religious nut.... and so they turn to god to pray that they can fire first??

                                      I don't know. I think you got it. There's just no way I'm going to rationalize this one out.
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                                        • notoldschool
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Aug 2007
                                          • 5687
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by StuartD
                                          I am a little lost on this one... I mean, I get that religious types are driven to war a lot, they aren't prejuidiced... they just hate anyone not in their group.

                                          But still, I don't quite get how people can be so god fearing, so afraid of sinning and going to hell.... but then rush out to buy as many guns as they can and push for more war.

                                          Here we have the other "wing" of thinkers who have no fear of god's wrath, no guilt of what could come... total free thinking, do as you please sinners that, for what ever reason, doesn't want guns around... doesn't want war... doesn't want to go killing as many other people as they can.

                                          Murder is a big no no in each interpretation of the commandments, and yet it seems to be encouraged so much so long as the person you're murdering is of some other faith....
                                          or trespassing.

                                          I just don't get it. Can someone explain it?

                                          You speak in to clear of terms for the sheep to handle in their pee brains. I completly agree with you and have seen how retarded it is for these fake military preists suggesting that its Gods will. I also find it funny that a TON of our own US Soldiers are MUSLIM. In Bosnia and Panama there were MUSLIM services on EVERY Camp I was stationed at. Its such a fucked up world and Religion is the main reason.
                                          No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                          -- Learned Hand

                                          http://www.bjpenn.com

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                                            • 12clicks
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Jan 2001
                                              • 19814
                                              #12
                                              before you run too far down the idiot track, please tell us which war the US started over religion.


                                              Thanks for playing
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                                                • notoldschool
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Aug 2007
                                                  • 5687
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by 12clicks
                                                  before you run too far down the idiot track, please tell us which war the US started over religion.


                                                  Thanks for playing
                                                  Iraq good enough for you allmighty program owner?
                                                  No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                                  -- Learned Hand

                                                  http://www.bjpenn.com

                                                    Comment

                                                    • 12clicks
                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                      • Jan 2001
                                                      • 19814
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by notoldschool
                                                      Iraq good enough for you allmighty program owner?
                                                      Hahahaha
                                                      I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • uno
                                                          RIP Dodger. BEST.CAT.EVER
                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                          • 18450
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by 12clicks
                                                          Hahahaha
                                                          Hey man, god told GWB to do it.
                                                          -uno
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                                                            • Grapesoda
                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                              • Jul 2003
                                                              • 46234
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by StuartD
                                                              I am a little lost on this one... I mean, I get that religious types are driven to war a lot, they aren't prejuidiced... they just hate anyone not in their group.

                                                              But still, I don't quite get how people can be so god fearing, so afraid of sinning and going to hell.... but then rush out to buy as many guns as they can and push for more war.

                                                              Here we have the other "wing" of thinkers who have no fear of god's wrath, no guilt of what could come... total free thinking, do as you please sinners that, for what ever reason, doesn't want guns around... doesn't want war... doesn't want to go killing as many other people as they can.

                                                              Murder is a big no no in each interpretation of the commandments, and yet it seems to be encouraged so much so long as the person you're murdering is of some other faith....
                                                              or trespassing.

                                                              I just don't get it. Can someone explain it?
                                                              pretty simple: basic human instinct for 'tribe' survival. -bmb

                                                                Comment

                                                                • LadyMischief
                                                                  Orgasms N Such!
                                                                  • Sep 2002
                                                                  • 18135
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by Chief
                                                                  True, but that statement is so overused and exaggerated it is not even funny. For one, even religion has been a tool for convincing the masses to go to war at times, it often has not been the "primary cause". Secondly a HELL of a lot more wars and death have occurred at the hands of atheists, or the non-religious than the religious. WWII come to mind? WWI? The USSR, Vietnam? Korea? Just about any number of the thousands upon thousands of wars between tribes and empires throughout human history. Religion has been just a tiny catalyst in it all.
                                                                  Maybe take a trek through history again and see how many conflicts were spurred from or spurned on by religious fervor. Hell, even the terrorist acts of today are "religiously motivated". Have you forgotten the crusades, the inquisition, many of the mass genocides in various countries were performed by people of conflicting religions. Ireland is an ongoing religious war.... even the US of A is happy to admit that "God told them to do it". And you can't tell me that in EVERY war, each side wasn't praying to their god that they would win. Religion was hardly a tiny catalyst in any way, and if you do your background research you will find that religious upheavals and religio-political jockeying have been at the roots of many conflicts that were claimed to have started for other reasons.

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                                                                    • Grapesoda
                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                      • 46234
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by StuartD
                                                                      I think you're right. Thou shalt not kill seems to be a guideline, not a rule.... but "thou shalt worship no other but me" is something worth killing others over.

                                                                      Perhaps it's because these people know how likely it is that they'll get shot by some other religious nut.... and so they turn to god to pray that they can fire first??

                                                                      I don't know. I think you got it. There's just no way I'm going to rationalize this one out.
                                                                      actually my understanding of the translation is 'thou shall not murder' which is completely different than 'thou shall not kill' -bmb

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Grapesoda
                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                                          • 46234
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by LadyMischief
                                                                          Maybe take a trek through history again and see how many conflicts were spurred from or spurned on by religious fervor. Hell, even the terrorist acts of today are "religiously motivated". Have you forgotten the crusades, the inquisition, many of the mass genocides in various countries were performed by people of conflicting religions. Ireland is an ongoing religious war.... even the US of A is happy to admit that "God told them to do it". And you can't tell me that in EVERY war, each side wasn't praying to their god that they would win. Religion was hardly a tiny catalyst in any way, and if you do your background research you will find that religious upheavals and religio-political jockeying have been at the roots of many conflicts that were claimed to have started for other reasons.
                                                                          religion is more the front than the cause.... the real issue is 'commerce'

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                                                                            • LadyMischief
                                                                              Orgasms N Such!
                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                              • 18135
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Perhaps the most admirable part of the response to the conflict that began on Sept. 11 has been a general reluctance to call it a religious war. Officials and commentators have rightly stressed that this is not a battle between the Muslim world and the West, that the murderers are not representative of Islam. President Bush went to the Islamic Center in Washington to reinforce the point. At prayer meetings across the United States and throughout the world, Muslim leaders have been included alongside Christians, Jews and Buddhists.


                                                                              Read the rest of the article, you might realize just what a part religion plays in the Iraq conflict and others:

                                                                              http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A9679C8B63

                                                                              Generals in the US Army have cast the war in religious terms themselves:
                                                                              http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1016-01.htm

                                                                              As much as anyone may say that this is NOT a religious conflict, people who are public and international representatives of the war efforts have cast it in that light, and like it or not, have turned it into one. Anyone who ways "we should take out those damn muslims"..... well if extremist groups had religious beliefs that didn't involve killing others, would anyone even care? Religion is at the heart of it, and the ultra-religious right are the captains in charge of the ship of war.

                                                                              Religion even played a part in the US Civil war, and what most people don't realize is that it played a larger part than is commonly acknowledged.
                                                                              "According to J. William Jones, Confederate Chaplain and author of one of the best documentaries of the Great Revival, virtually every Confederate brigade was affected--and approximately ten percent of the soldiers in the Army of Northern Virginia accepted Christ. Night after night troops participated in prayer meetings, worshipped, and listened to ministers proclaim the good news. Virtually every gathering ended with soldiers coming forward to accept Christ or receive prayer. When a pond or river was nearby, the soldiers would frequently step forward for baptisms--regardless of how cold the weather was. "
                                                                              http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/revival.htm

                                                                              Men in war turn to god. Men in god turn to war. The two seem to happily go hand in hand.

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                                                                                • Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                  Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                                  • 4482
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  some good food for thoughts there LadyMischief ...


                                                                                  a Lady who is a Miss be the Chief ? lolz . ;

                                                                                  seriously though .. religion in general is a good thing . . interpretation is the problem


                                                                                  all over the world . .people are fighting ? for what! ?

                                                                                  everybody is killing everybody

                                                                                  some people say they believe in Jesus . . though .. they will kill other people who also believe in Jesus . . just cause they have a different interpretation .. . ; same with muslims . . they all follow the teachings of the prophet Muhammed .. but . . in the end . . some have a different interpretation of the words he has written down then others . .and that makes people want to murder .. .

                                                                                  someone needs to stop this madness .. God himself maybe ?


                                                                                  I cant imagine if God exists he actually cares about what you do everyday or who you pray too . . I would think he cares about you being a good person and being there for your loved ones .. not killing other people because they dissagree with you ..

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Grapesoda
                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                                      • 46234
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by Deputy Chief Command


                                                                                      all over the world . .people are fighting ? for what! ?


                                                                                      as yaser arafat once said: my imaginary friend is bigger than your imaginary freind

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                          Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                                          • 4482
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by bm bradley
                                                                                          as yaser arafat once said: my imaginary friend is bigger than your imaginary freind


                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Fletch XXX
                                                                                              GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                                              • Jan 2002
                                                                                              • 60840
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              without reading all this:

                                                                                              its simple - some of choose books over guns.

                                                                                              SOme of us prove we have knowledge, so we go to college.

                                                                                              Some of us have no skills other than shooting something, so we send those to die, so the rest of us can get college money without risking our life.

                                                                                              we need more meat shields hurry up and sign up boys.
                                                                                              Last edited by Fletch XXX; 09-21-2008, 09:07 AM.

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                                                                                                • - Jesus Christ -
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Mar 2003
                                                                                                  • 7197
                                                                                                  #25

                                                                                                  Amen

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                                                                                                    • Odin
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Jan 2004
                                                                                                      • 2545
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by LadyMischief
                                                                                                      Maybe take a trek through history again and see how many conflicts were spurred from or spurned on by religious fervor. Hell, even the terrorist acts of today are "religiously motivated". Have you forgotten the crusades, the inquisition, many of the mass genocides in various countries were performed by people of conflicting religions. Ireland is an ongoing religious war.... even the US of A is happy to admit that "God told them to do it". And you can't tell me that in EVERY war, each side wasn't praying to their god that they would win. Religion was hardly a tiny catalyst in any way, and if you do your background research you will find that religious upheavals and religio-political jockeying have been at the roots of many conflicts that were claimed to have started for other reasons.
                                                                                                      And this is the problem with you anti-religious crazies. I've no problem with honestly dissecting religion, and appropriating blame where it is due (and there absolute is some, a fair amount even), but you carry on as if atheism is the answer to the worlds problems, or some enlightened movement incapable of ignorance in comparison to theism. I mean the "Gold told them to do it" bit, it's just a massive stretch, and if you believe it was the justification for going to war even for a second you are pretty naive. Most wars, past and particularly present are ethnic conflicts, not religious, and whilst religion plays a role in a number of other conflicts and in fact even constituting what is an ethnicity on occasions (take for example the internal conflicts going on inside Iraq), it doesn't necessarily warrant the wrap it gets.

                                                                                                      The real problem I have though, is that when I look at developing (in fact even some developed) regions of the world that are devoid of religion I actually see something a hell of a lot less promising than what the atheists try to convince you would exist. Go to South America (and yes I know there are a lot of religious people there), or Africa and see how long you last with a decent watch on your arm, but I can tell you this, I've been to Lebanon, Syria and a whole host of other religious and poor nations and no one would touch you. Sure they have their downfalls, but to write off a moral order completely is going too far. And the point I make about non-religious based wars was to point out that you can't write off our present secular society wholesale because of them either. Look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history and consider to yourself why so few are religious based. I think it is because at least religion has some rules, atheists don't.

                                                                                                      I mean how many members of MS-13, or the bloods and the crips do you really think go to Church and believe it, and try to obey it? How many people putting knifes into others or throwing fists at each other in drunken nights out in Britain (or anywhere in the Western world) do you really think are trying to be devout and decent human beings? What I see is a world in which we are collapsing one order (religion) and placing it by another (money, looks, materialism), and claiming that we are enlightened. Sure, some are, no doubt you are still a decent human being and intelligent, but the problem with this is that religion is something that holds together the masses and truth be told it was actually a hell of a lot more inclusive and stable than the order we've replace it. I think we need discussion about it though, not just assumptions.
                                                                                                      Last edited by Odin; 09-21-2008, 09:28 AM.
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                                                                                                        • - Jesus Christ -
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                                                                          • 7197
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Atheism is based on belief just as much as any religion.

                                                                                                          The very concept of "god" has never clearly been established so how can you confirm or deny its existence?

                                                                                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

                                                                                                          Amen

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                                                                                                            • WarChild
                                                                                                              Let slip the dogs of war.
                                                                                                              • Jan 2003
                                                                                                              • 17263
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by StuartD
                                                                                                              I just don't get it.
                                                                                                              "Well that's a switch!"
                                                                                                              .

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                                                                                                                • BradM
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Dec 2003
                                                                                                                  • 3397
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  The way you laid it out doesn't make sense. The way religious people rationalize everything in their brain is very different.

                                                                                                                  If you are around Christians (far right wing) for awhile you realize this. Fear, Hypocrisy and idiocy run almost everything they do.

                                                                                                                  It's not as cut and dry as you proposed.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • Houdini
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                      • 1651
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      nevermind.
                                                                                                                      Last edited by Houdini; 09-21-2008, 10:33 AM.

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                                                                                                                        • notoldschool
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Aug 2007
                                                                                                                          • 5687
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Chief
                                                                                                                          And this is the problem with you anti-religious crazies.


                                                                                                                          Mind of a religous freak...

                                                                                                                          people who believe in PROVEN Science = Crazy

                                                                                                                          people who beleive in an invisible man who hears their whispers and put one of every animal on a boat = Sane

                                                                                                                          No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                                                                                                          -- Learned Hand

                                                                                                                          http://www.bjpenn.com

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                                                                                                                            • DaddyHalbucks
                                                                                                                              A freakin' legend!
                                                                                                                              • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                              • 18975
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Boner Money

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                                                                                                                                • Odin
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2004
                                                                                                                                  • 2545
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by notoldschool


                                                                                                                                  Mind of a religous freak...

                                                                                                                                  people who believe in PROVEN Science = Crazy

                                                                                                                                  people who beleive in an invisible man who hears their whispers and put one of every animal on a boat = Sane

                                                                                                                                  notoldschool you actually crack me up, you remind me of when I was 18, and just started to learn a few things about the world but assumed I knew a lot more than I did. I'm not religious at all for one, and I believe in proven science, and even some theoretical science (i.e. evolution - which is not proven). But no where does science give us a definitive answer to the meaning of life, the after-life or lack there of, the beginning of the Universe beyond the big bang (how did something initiate from nothing), etc etc. And judging by your posts, I am willing to bet you know about as much about evolution or any number of scientific facts of theories you believe in as a regular "Christian" truly knows about the Bible (fuck all), so I wouldn't get on your high horse assuming they are the only naive ones for believing something they don't even understand.
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                                                                                                                                    • mrkris
                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                      • May 2005
                                                                                                                                      • 2737
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Religion to the masses is a way of living, a belief.
                                                                                                                                      Religion to the leaders is a means of control.

                                                                                                                                      Brainwashing++

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                                                                                                                                        • tiger
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                          • 6986
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Trying to apply logic won't help you understand.

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                                                                                                                                            • baddog
                                                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                              • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                              • 107089
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by StuartD
                                                                                                                                              But still, I don't quite get how people can be so god fearing, so afraid of sinning and going to hell.... but then rush out to buy as many guns as they can and push for more war.
                                                                                                                                              I have to admit that I am a little surprised that you feel Americans buy guns so they can run out and kill someone.

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • baddog
                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                  • 107089
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by notoldschool
                                                                                                                                                  Iraq good enough for you allmighty program owner?
                                                                                                                                                  Whoa . . . the US got involved in Iraq because of religion? Have you tapped out all your other lame answers?

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • MrMaxwell
                                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                                                      • 10057
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                                                                                                                                                      without reading all this:

                                                                                                                                                      its simple - some of choose books over guns.

                                                                                                                                                      SOme of us prove we have knowledge, so we go to college.

                                                                                                                                                      Some of us have no skills other than shooting something, so we send those to die, so the rest of us can get college money without risking our life.

                                                                                                                                                      we need more meat shields hurry up and sign up boys.

                                                                                                                                                      Come throw a book at me :D

                                                                                                                                                      College isn't where you go to prove your own knowledge.
                                                                                                                                                      College is where one goes to attain knowledge the system wants us to have.

                                                                                                                                                      Shooting something is the only skill our soldiers posess? Courage, discipline, balls, battle strategy, survival skills and more is what our soldiers have.



                                                                                                                                                      What happens when your white tie and production free dollars won't buy your meals and shelter any more? Guys like you will end up throwing books and spouting textbook bullshit as you go to your death if you don't find some wisdom before it is too late.

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                                                                                                                                                        • StuartD
                                                                                                                                                          Sofa King Band
                                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                                          • 29903
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                                          I have to admit that I am a little surprised that you feel Americans buy guns so they can run out and kill someone.
                                                                                                                                                          You and 12click seem to be too defensive to actually understand the point, you'd rather just go looking for the quickest argument.

                                                                                                                                                          I didn't say anywhere in my post that the US started any wars based on religion, nor did I say that they buy a gun solely to kill someone.

                                                                                                                                                          They are all separate points, and all separate observations.
                                                                                                                                                          How can religious nuts, who are so afraid of God, be so much in favour of having guns. So much in favour of war. So much in favour of people being killed.

                                                                                                                                                          I could ask the same question of bbq'ers. Why, if they love the taste of meat so much, do they have to put on spices. Why do they have to drink beers? Why do they have to invite people over to share it all so badly?

                                                                                                                                                          Now, I didn't say that bbq'ers bought beers so they can run out and share them with someone, did I?
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                                                                                                                                                            • notoldschool
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2007
                                                                                                                                                              • 5687
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Chief
                                                                                                                                                              notoldschool you actually crack me up, you remind me of when I was 18, and just started to learn a few things about the world but assumed I knew a lot more than I did. I'm not religious at all for one, and I believe in proven science, and even some theoretical science (i.e. evolution - which is not proven). But no where does science give us a definitive answer to the meaning of life, the after-life or lack there of, the beginning of the Universe beyond the big bang (how did something initiate from nothing), etc etc. And judging by your posts, I am willing to bet you know about as much about evolution or any number of scientific facts of theories you believe in as a regular "Christian" truly knows about the Bible (fuck all), so I wouldn't get on your high horse assuming they are the only naive ones for believing something they don't even understand.
                                                                                                                                                              There is nothing to understand about religion other than a handfull of guys that lived well before ANY knowledge of how the world works wrote sections of a book that make NO sense and pawned it off as some higher being word. There is 0 fact to back up anything in the bible. The men who wrote it would have though a light bulb was the devils work. The book was written by uneducted men period. ANY college graduate has more kwoledge of the world and its makings than ANY of the men who pitched in on the magic book so many weak minded people follow. I dont claim to know how the world began exactly but to make such flawed claims as religion has and still be viable in these day and ages just shows how unintelligent the masses are.
                                                                                                                                                              No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
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                                                                                                                                                                • pornguy
                                                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                  • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                                                  • 62910
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by mrkris
                                                                                                                                                                  Religion to the masses is a way of living, a belief.
                                                                                                                                                                  Religion to the leaders is a means of control.

                                                                                                                                                                  Brainwashing++
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                                                                                                                                                                    • J. Falcon
                                                                                                                                                                      www.AdultCopywriters.com
                                                                                                                                                                      • May 2006
                                                                                                                                                                      • 31587
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                                                      Whoa . . . the US got involved in Iraq because of religion? Have you tapped out all your other lame answers?
                                                                                                                                                                      Let's start by saying that nobody knows why the US got involved in Iraq. If you think you know, I would love to hear the answer. But you can't deny the FACT that Bush did publicly admit that God told him to invade. So try to make some sense of that.
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                                                                                                                                                                        • notoldschool
                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2007
                                                                                                                                                                          • 5687
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by J. Falcon
                                                                                                                                                                          Let's start by saying that nobody knows why the US got involved in Iraq. If you think you know, I would love to hear the answer. But you can't deny the FACT that Bush did publicly admit that God told him to invade. So try to make some sense of that.
                                                                                                                                                                          Dont bother with the stubborn old man. I have plenty of experience with his kind. Once you reach that age its impossible to see clearly.
                                                                                                                                                                          No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                                                                                                                                                          -- Learned Hand

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                                                                                                                                                                            • J. Falcon
                                                                                                                                                                              www.AdultCopywriters.com
                                                                                                                                                                              • May 2006
                                                                                                                                                                              • 31587
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by J. Falcon
                                                                                                                                                                              Let's start by saying that nobody knows why the US got involved in Iraq. If you think you know, I would love to hear the answer. But you can't deny the FACT that Bush did publicly admit that God told him to invade. So try to make some sense of that.

                                                                                                                                                                              And baddog, try to respond without using one of your witty one-line remarks, which is pretty much all you know how to do.
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                                                                                                                                                                                • SilentKnight
                                                                                                                                                                                  Megan Fox's fluffer
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Oct 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 24812
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Obviously wars are started for a variety of reasons - granted, religion being among the biggest motivations.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Greed, power, oil...misguided liberation.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Sometimes politicians start wars thinking it'll help kickstart their domestic economy - or to increase their own treasure chest (*cough* - Haliburton - *cough*).

                                                                                                                                                                                  I firmly believe the general public aren't usually privvy to the genuine reasons war is started by one faction or another. The real motivators are tucked behind closed doors and meet in secret 'societies'.

                                                                                                                                                                                  We're spoon-fed the diversionary reasons through media manipulation to misdirect and make us think the war is somehow justified.

                                                                                                                                                                                  GWB woke up one morning and thanked Gawd some religious fanatics brought down the WTC so he could justify marching in to Iraq and:

                                                                                                                                                                                  a) take out the sonofabitch that "tried to kill my Daddy".
                                                                                                                                                                                  b) make Haliburton (and affiliated cronies) an even richer corporation.
                                                                                                                                                                                  c) explore the possibilities of controling a greater supply of middleast oil reserves.

                                                                                                                                                                                  And of course, GWB spun it to the media he was "liberating Iraq from a fanatical tyrant with 'weapons of mass destruction' - galore."

                                                                                                                                                                                  Trouble is...there was no WMDs to be found - and people began questioning why he chose to "liberate" Iraq when there were far worse oppressed countries that badly needed democratic liberation.

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                                                                                                                                                                                    • DaddyHalbucks
                                                                                                                                                                                      A freakin' legend!
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 18975
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Now about your "go to war" part...

                                                                                                                                                                                      Occasionally it is necessary to go to war against dictators and aggressors, for international law enforcement, for similar reasons to why a city needs a police force. A city without police wouldn't be a very nice place to live, would it? Well, it's the same on the international stage --a world that tolerates dictators and aggressors isn't nice either.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Should the US be the policeman of the world?

                                                                                                                                                                                      Ideally, no. That should be the job of the UN. But, if the UN is taken over by a bunch of spineless jellyfish and collaborators, and years of diplomacy fails, there may not be much of an alternative..
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                                                                                                                                                                                        • J. Falcon
                                                                                                                                                                                          www.AdultCopywriters.com
                                                                                                                                                                                          • May 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 31587
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by DaddyHalbucks
                                                                                                                                                                                          Now about your "go to war" part...

                                                                                                                                                                                          Occasionally it is necessary to go to war against dictators and aggressors, for international law enforcement, for similar reasons to why a city needs a police force. A city without police wouldn't be a very nice place to live, would it? Well, it's the same on the international stage --a world that tolerates dictators and aggressors isn't nice either.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Should the US be the policeman of the world?

                                                                                                                                                                                          Ideally, no. That should be the job of the UN. But, if the UN is taken over by a bunch of spineless jellyfish and collaborators, and years of diplomacy fails, there may not be much of an alternative..

                                                                                                                                                                                          You have your head stuck so far up your ass that your lips, nose, ears and eyes are all covered in shit. Ignorant dumb fuck.
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                                                                                                                                                                                            • StuartD
                                                                                                                                                                                              Sofa King Band
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 29903
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by DaddyHalbucks
                                                                                                                                                                                              Now about your "go to war" part...

                                                                                                                                                                                              Occasionally it is necessary to go to war against dictators and aggressors, for international law enforcement, for similar reasons to why a city needs a police force. A city without police wouldn't be a very nice place to live, would it? Well, it's the same on the international stage --a world that tolerates dictators and aggressors isn't nice either.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Should the US be the policeman of the world?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Ideally, no. That should be the job of the UN. But, if the UN is taken over by a bunch of spineless jellyfish and collaborators, and years of diplomacy fails, there may not be much of an alternative..
                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, you make a solid argument. Very thoughtful.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I have just 2 questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. What does this have to do with their religion?
                                                                                                                                                                                              2. Since when does a policeman invade a nation based on fabricated proof with the intent on hanging it's leader until dead?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                • 2012
                                                                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking What
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 17189
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  ever read Lord Of the Flies ?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Sly
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Let's do some business!
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Sep 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 31379
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by notoldschool
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Iraq good enough for you allmighty program owner?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I thought it was about the oil... that we didn't get.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now it's about religion... that we didn't convert?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Next week it will be about getting a fresh supply of sand to restock our deserts.
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