Good but cheap HD camera for a website???

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  • celandina
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Jun 2006
    • 11715
    #1

    Good but cheap HD camera for a website???

    Am about to launch a new website where the models are going to shoot themselves. Likely in their homes, hotel rooms etc... only in interiors and mostly at night.

    These are NOT live webcams, but staged scenes. Of course most of them have no camera / lighting skills. There will NOT be any separate equipment other then maybe a small side light to get some decent close ups.

    Anybody can advise me what camera able to handle low light ( regular hotel room lighting), is easy to operate and to record on???

    I appreciate any and all suggestions and if possible,links to some sample vid.

    C.
    Tags: None
    • ruff
      I have a plan B
      • Aug 2004
      • 5499
      #2
      I'm thinking Amazon is your friend on this.
      CryptoFeeds

        Comment

        • 247mg
          Yellowplum / 247mg
          • Feb 2008
          • 2162
          #3
          Where you based... answer will be depend on that.. Else its Amazon
          247mg.com - Indian Affiliate Program - Over 50+ Sites To Promote - Monetize Your INDIAN Traffic Today!

            Comment

            • NatalieK
              Natalie K
              • Apr 2010
              • 19827
              #4
              We purchased the Panasonic fz1000

              http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...zing-zoom.html

              it's fast focus, HD & 4k, the super high fast processor, simply the best camera for it's value for money on the market
              My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
              Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                Comment

                • NatalieK
                  Natalie K
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 19827
                  #5
                  Panasonic FZ1000 LUMIX Digital Camera DMC-FZ1000K B&H Photo

                  My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
                  Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                    Comment

                    • celandina
                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                      • Jun 2006
                      • 11715
                      #6
                      Originally posted by 247mg
                      Where you based... answer will be depend on that.. Else its Amazon

                      We are in Europe. It is NOT where to buy it ( we have Amazon and all major retailers) but which camera?? Will look at those who gave me a direct link to a specific model. Thanks.

                        Comment

                        • Barry-xlovecam
                          It's 42
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 18083
                          #7
                          Tell the girls to buy those cheap aluminium reflector clamp on lights (they sell them at home-improvement stores) and a good 100W to 300 W (equivalent) florescent screw in bulb -- $20 maybe. All webcams require decent or better lighting. Unless, you want that ''dark look'' intentionally.

                          You can pick-up a Logitech 500 or 900 series $35 to $90 for the basic ones.

                          Webcams that are recorded are forbidden on most camsites. However, we do VOD of the models' recorded content but it's not a big seller.

                            Comment

                            • celandina
                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 11715
                              #8
                              Originally posted by GspotProductions
                              Panasonic FZ1000 LUMIX Digital Camera DMC-FZ1000K B&H Photo


                              At 800 bucks a bit to pricey for what I need to give some models to play with x 2. Also f2.8 is not that "low light friendly"....

                                Comment

                                • celandina
                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                  • Jun 2006
                                  • 11715
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                  Tell the girls to buy those cheap aluminium reflector clamp on lights (they sell them at home-improvement stores) and a good 100W to 300 W (equivalent) florescent screw in bulb -- $20 maybe. All webcams require decent or better lighting. Unless, you want that ''dark look'' intentionally.

                                  You can pick-up a Logitech 500 or 900 series $35 to $90 for the basic ones.

                                  Webcams that are recorded are forbidden on most camsites. But we do VOD of the models' recorded content but it's not a big seller.
                                  I do not like camsites. I am getting additional site to "piggyback" next to our traditional VOD site. So no concern about some "camsite" policies.

                                  To the cameras:

                                  I am a huge fan of iFeelmyself. That is the look I am trying to achieve. Indeed other then the subject(s), I want darker ( "dangerous") look and feel. Not sure if any webcam camera ( like Logitech) will cut it.

                                    Comment

                                    • candyflip
                                      Carpe Visio
                                      • Jul 2002
                                      • 43069
                                      #10
                                      Sony A6000

                                      SONY a6000 Review and video sample - Best mirror less camera - YouTube

                                      This is the best in low light for under $1000. Comparable camcorders are $1000-1200.

                                      Lots of cameras a few years old that would probably do the trick, and be had fairly cheaply. Canon t2i - t5i, Panasonic GH2-GH3,

                                      The Sony NEX-5 is a few years old and you can find these for around $250 with lenses and they shoot well in low light They're also very small. It's the predecessor of the A6000.


                                      Spend you some brain.
                                      Email Me

                                        Comment

                                        • NatalieK
                                          Natalie K
                                          • Apr 2010
                                          • 19827
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by celandina
                                          At 800 bucks a bit to pricey for what I need to give some models to play with x 2. Also f2.8 is not that "low light friendly"....
                                          the panasonic is amazing in low light

                                          http://www.valuebasket.es/es_ES/Pana...ew/17486-AA-NA

                                          here is the spanish one... I don't know where you are, but maybe bring up valuebasket & see what happens where you are
                                          My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
                                          Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                                            Comment

                                            • iSpyCams
                                              Amateur Gynecologist
                                              • May 2009
                                              • 4436
                                              #12
                                              I got a refurbished Canon Rebel T5 a week ago on Amazon for $350, looks like it's even cheaper now. It turned out to not be what I wanted and I returned it hassle free, too. It took great pics and all, but lacked some key features I needed for a stop-motion project.
                                              - As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.

                                                Comment

                                                • jsmih
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Oct 2010
                                                  • 334
                                                  #13
                                                  If they've got no camera skills, most of the above recommendations are probably too complex for the models. I'd just get a midrange 1080p camcorder, at like $200 US. They're easy to use, usually f1.8 at wide angle, and do a good job at keeping things in focus. Maybe get some cheap eBay light stands and umbrellas and lampholders (like $40 for everything).

                                                    Comment

                                                    • NatalieK
                                                      Natalie K
                                                      • Apr 2010
                                                      • 19827
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by jsmih
                                                      If they've got no camera skills, most of the above recommendations are probably too complex for the models. I'd just get a midrange 1080p camcorder, at like $200 US. They're easy to use, usually f1.8 at wide angle, and do a good job at keeping things in focus. Maybe get some cheap eBay light stands and umbrellas and lampholders (like $40 for everything).
                                                      If they've got no camera skills, will their camera work not be worth filming for sale on a site?
                                                      My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
                                                      Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                                                        Comment

                                                        • celandina
                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                          • Jun 2006
                                                          • 11715
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by jsmih
                                                          If they've got no camera skills, most of the above recommendations are probably too complex for the models. I'd just get a midrange 1080p camcorder, at like $200 US. They're easy to use, usually f1.8 at wide angle, and do a good job at keeping things in focus. Maybe get some cheap eBay light stands and umbrellas and lampholders (like $40 for everything).

                                                          You are the guy who understands what I am talking about..... So, what is a midrange 1080p camcorder as an example with f 1.8 lens which I can pick up for about 200 bucks???

                                                          I have not found one yet.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • celandina
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Jun 2006
                                                              • 11715
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by GspotProductions
                                                              If they've got no camera skills, will their camera work not be worth filming for sale on a site?
                                                              They just have to set up 2 cameras at different angles and different focal lenghts and then they "act the scene" without touching the cameras.

                                                              So one camera wide, another medium and then they " go for it" not paying attention where the cameras are but how to poistion themselves that the cameras actually see something good..

                                                              ... But I did say I love iFeelmyslef... If you look then you will know what I am talking about

                                                                Comment

                                                                • candyflip
                                                                  Carpe Visio
                                                                  • Jul 2002
                                                                  • 43069
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by celandina
                                                                  ... But I did say I love iFeelmyslef... If you look then you will know what I am talking about
                                                                  There is a lot more involved and going on behind the scenes in the ifeelmyself.com videos. If you think you're going to get video like that by simply sending a model two cameras and having her set them up, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointment.

                                                                  While there might not be much in the way of camera movement / camera work, all those shots in the one demo video at the top of their page were lit by someone who definitely knows what they're doing. You won't get anything close to that look having the models handling the cameras.

                                                                  Spend you some brain.
                                                                  Email Me

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • DVTimes
                                                                      xxx
                                                                      • Jun 2003
                                                                      • 31650
                                                                      #18
                                                                      One simple option is just to shoot on a really good webcam camera. Use a usb extension lead. The advantage is cost and save files direct to PC, or indeed to a mobile phone (you can plug a webcam into a mobile and record, or even a tablet).

                                                                      Option 2 is get such as a Panasonic HC-V270 HD Camcorder. They autofocus which is important if the model is shooting herself. She can flick to auto and just press record. Plus light and small and cheap. The cheap one you can get is basic but HD. If you want Wi Fi opt for the more expensive models.

                                                                      Dont bother with a photo camera as they may not auto focus. Plus the sound will suck.

                                                                      The 3rd option is just to use a mobile phone. But buy mobile phone camera stands.
                                                                      XXX

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • DVTimes
                                                                          xxx
                                                                          • Jun 2003
                                                                          • 31650
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by GspotProductions
                                                                          If they've got no camera skills, will their camera work not be worth filming for sale on a site?
                                                                          Its not stopped you Gary.
                                                                          XXX

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • NatalieK
                                                                              Natalie K
                                                                              • Apr 2010
                                                                              • 19827
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by candyflip
                                                                              There is a lot more involved and going on behind the scenes in the ifeelmyself.com videos. If you think you're going to get video like that by simply sending a model two cameras and having her set them up, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointment.

                                                                              While there might not be much in the way of camera movement / camera work, all those shots in the one demo video at the top of their page were lit by someone who definitely knows what they're doing. You won't get anything close to that look having the models handling the cameras.
                                                                              absolutely right candyflip. The preview has many shots, yes, the camera remains still, but lighting & many camera angles are there. The camera wouldn't stay still through the full movie.

                                                                              We, my partner & I, shoot 10 min to 20min scenes for my films on my site. We change camera angles, so even though the footage is static, you need at least 3 or 4 different anges, as you need a distance shot, a close up, you want from above & sometimes below. Also, distance from 2 angles are good. The only other option, if you're creating a security camera feel to your video, like voyeur movies
                                                                              My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
                                                                              Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • NatalieK
                                                                                  Natalie K
                                                                                  • Apr 2010
                                                                                  • 19827
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by DVTimes
                                                                                  Its not stopped you Gary.
                                                                                  "It's never stopped you Natalie"

                                                                                  Another constructive post
                                                                                  My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
                                                                                  Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • candyflip
                                                                                      Carpe Visio
                                                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                                                      • 43069
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by GspotProductions
                                                                                      absolutely right candyflip. The preview has many shots, yes, the camera remains still, but lighting & many camera angles are there. The camera wouldn't stay still through the full movie.

                                                                                      We, my partner & I, shoot 10 min to 20min scenes for my films on my site. We change camera angles, so even though the footage is static, you need at least 3 or 4 different anges, as you need a distance shot, a close up, you want from above & sometimes below. Also, distance from 2 angles are good. The only other option, if you're creating a security camera feel to your video, like voyeur movies
                                                                                      If I was trying to do this, I would purchase a few cheap 4k cameras placed wide. Then crop and zoom to create multiple shots from the two wide angles. Exporting in 1080p would mean no loss of quality and you get a bunch of shots from two static cameras.

                                                                                      Spend you some brain.
                                                                                      Email Me

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • baggg
                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                          • Mar 2012
                                                                                          • 1432
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          GoPro Hero

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • NatalieK
                                                                                              Natalie K
                                                                                              • Apr 2010
                                                                                              • 19827
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by candyflip
                                                                                              If I was trying to do this, I would purchase a few cheap 4k cameras placed wide. Then crop and zoom to create multiple shots from the two wide angles. Exporting in 1080p would mean no loss of quality and you get a bunch of shots from two static cameras.
                                                                                              agreed, this is a great idea!

                                                                                              Personally having problems editing 4k atm, working on i5, need a new pc with i7 or uprated ram

                                                                                              Originally posted by baggg
                                                                                              GoPro Hero
                                                                                              problem with gopro, the wide angle fish eye lens
                                                                                              My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
                                                                                              Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                  • 52942
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Make sure they turn off auto focus and exposure before they start the scene.

                                                                                                  And don't expect to get the cameras back every time.



                                                                                                  Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                                  PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • baggg
                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                      • Mar 2012
                                                                                                      • 1432
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by GspotProductions



                                                                                                      problem with gopro, the wide angle fish eye lens
                                                                                                      True, but you can remove that
                                                                                                      How Can I Remove the Distortion (Fisheye) Effect in GoPro Studio?

                                                                                                      I also have a SJ400 wifi, that has a FOV option in the menu to remove fisheye.
                                                                                                      Anyway, im not pro content producert, just shoot for fun.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • celandina
                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                          • Jun 2006
                                                                                                          • 11715
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by candyflip
                                                                                                          There is a lot more involved and going on behind the scenes in the ifeelmyself.com videos. If you think you're going to get video like that by simply sending a model two cameras and having her set them up, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointment.

                                                                                                          While there might not be much in the way of camera movement / camera work, all those shots in the one demo video at the top of their page were lit by someone who definitely knows what they're doing. You won't get anything close to that look having the models handling the cameras.

                                                                                                          I read you, so a bit more specifics. I do work with a smart lady ( former model, but now mother of two) who wants to do something in the business, hence the idea.

                                                                                                          I trust her enough to take a light ( or two) and arrange them and who will "direct" the girls. So there will be an element of a production person on the set ( sort of speak)...

                                                                                                          Yet I want her to concentrate on the action...as to iFeelmyself. I agree that these are professionally lit, yet ALL the lighting is the same ( three point key,fill and back). In my case I plan to have a key and use some "chinese" 500 kw light and the other two whatever is available in the place... I know it will not be the same... But hey, better then some camgirl... At least I hope.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • celandina
                                                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                              • Jun 2006
                                                                                                              • 11715
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by DVTimes
                                                                                                              One simple option is just to shoot on a really good webcam camera. Use a usb extension lead. The advantage is cost and save files direct to PC, or indeed to a mobile phone (you can plug a webcam into a mobile and record, or even a tablet).

                                                                                                              Option 2 is get such as a Panasonic HC-V270 HD Camcorder. They autofocus which is important if the model is shooting herself. She can flick to auto and just press record. Plus light and small and cheap. The cheap one you can get is basic but HD. If you want Wi Fi opt for the more expensive models.

                                                                                                              Dont bother with a photo camera as they may not auto focus. Plus the sound will suck.

                                                                                                              The 3rd option is just to use a mobile phone. But buy mobile phone camera stands.
                                                                                                              The Panasonic looks promising.Thanks.But not sure what the range of fstops means... From 1.8 ( excellent) to 4.5 ( bad)

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • celandina
                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                  • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                  • 11715
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by candyflip
                                                                                                                  If I was trying to do this, I would purchase a few cheap 4k cameras placed wide. Then crop and zoom to create multiple shots from the two wide angles. Exporting in 1080p would mean no loss of quality and you get a bunch of shots from two static cameras.
                                                                                                                  This is really Chinese to me.... except that even in 4K if I take a wide shot and crop it it will look like from another era... Can you spell VHS

                                                                                                                  And what cheap 4K cameras are you talking about ??

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • celandina
                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                      • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                      • 11715
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      oops double post

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • celandina
                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                          • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                          • 11715
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by baggg
                                                                                                                          GoPro Hero
                                                                                                                          Have seen million shot of sky divers in beautiful sunlit day, bot not a single clip of a human body in the night interior....

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • celandina
                                                                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                              • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                              • 11715
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              All comments are much appreciated.

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • Relic
                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                  • 10294
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  get what you pay for

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • celandina
                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                                      • 11715
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Relic
                                                                                                                                      get what you pay for
                                                                                                                                      Very helpfull comment

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • NatalieK
                                                                                                                                          Natalie K
                                                                                                                                          • Apr 2010
                                                                                                                                          • 19827
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by baggg
                                                                                                                                          True, but you can remove that
                                                                                                                                          How Can I Remove the Distortion (Fisheye) Effect in GoPro Studio?

                                                                                                                                          I also have a SJ400 wifi, that has a FOV option in the menu to remove fisheye.
                                                                                                                                          Anyway, im not pro content producert, just shoot for fun.
                                                                                                                                          great link, thanks. I may look into a small go pro, for our outdoor fun shoots of upskirt & public flashing

                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by celandina
                                                                                                                                          The Panasonic looks promising.Thanks.But not sure what the range of fstops means... From 1.8 ( excellent) to 4.5 ( bad)
                                                                                                                                          Panasonic's are fantastic. The fstop is the size of the iris. Allowing light & the image to be seen & taken, this giving the focus. A 1.8 fstop would focus on a smaller area & the 4.5, a larger area. With an fstop 8, as long as you had good lighting, you would have a total clear image for all over the picture.

                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by celandina
                                                                                                                                          This is really Chinese to me.... except that even in 4K if I take a wide shot and crop it it will look like from another era... Can you spell VHS

                                                                                                                                          And what cheap 4K cameras are you talking about ??
                                                                                                                                          I think the cheapest 4k camera is probably the sony handy cam. This does only have a small lens, but I heard the quality of the image is exceptional & the remove can be used on your wrist.



                                                                                                                                          We were looking at these instead of the camera we have now & the go pros... they're wifi & waterproof

                                                                                                                                          Sony Action Cam FDR-X1000V - Videocámara deportiva (video 4K, resistente a salpicaduras con WI-FI, NFC, GPS y funda resistente al agua), blanco: SONY: Amazon.es: Electrónica
                                                                                                                                          My official site / Custom vids / Make money links / First time girls
                                                                                                                                          Email: [email protected] - "Converting traffic into income since 2005"

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • jsmih
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Oct 2010
                                                                                                                                              • 334
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by celandina
                                                                                                                                              You are the guy who understands what I am talking about..... So, what is a midrange 1080p camcorder as an example with f 1.8 lens which I can pick up for about 200 bucks???

                                                                                                                                              I have not found one yet.
                                                                                                                                              Based on a one minute search, here's what BestBuy had listed. Unfortunately, their specs don't give a 35mm equivalent for the lenses. In the past, I found that Samsung camcorders were significant wider at the wide angle end of the zoom (important for POVish stuff).

                                                                                                                                              Samsung Refurbished Digital Camcorder - 2.7" LCD - CMOS - Full HD White F90 - Best Buy

                                                                                                                                              Canon VIXIA HF R600 HD Flash Memory Camcorder Black 0280C001 - Best Buy

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • candyflip
                                                                                                                                                  Carpe Visio
                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                                  • 43069
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by celandina
                                                                                                                                                  This is really Chinese to me.... except that even in 4K if I take a wide shot and crop it it will look like from another era... Can you spell VHS

                                                                                                                                                  And what cheap 4K cameras are you talking about ??
                                                                                                                                                  Definitely not the case with cropping 4K and exporting to 1080p.

                                                                                                                                                  The benefit now of shooting 4K has nothing to do with delivering a 4K product, but what you can do with the 4K footage you've shot. Check this out. It will do a better job explaining it.

                                                                                                                                                  6 Reasons To Shoot 4k Video Even If You Can't View It Yet | Fstoppers

                                                                                                                                                  And when I say cheap, it's still around $500 for the body...but considering I just purchased a camera body that was $5000, it's pretty cheap if you ask me

                                                                                                                                                  Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7 Mirrorless Micro Four Thirds DMC-G7KK B&H

                                                                                                                                                  Spend you some brain.
                                                                                                                                                  Email Me

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • candyflip
                                                                                                                                                      Carpe Visio
                                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                                      • 43069
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by celandina
                                                                                                                                                      I read you, so a bit more specifics. I do work with a smart lady ( former model, but now mother of two) who wants to do something in the business, hence the idea.

                                                                                                                                                      I trust her enough to take a light ( or two) and arrange them and who will "direct" the girls. So there will be an element of a production person on the set ( sort of speak)...

                                                                                                                                                      Yet I want her to concentrate on the action...as to iFeelmyself. I agree that these are professionally lit, yet ALL the lighting is the same ( three point key,fill and back). In my case I plan to have a key and use some "chinese" 500 kw light and the other two whatever is available in the place... I know it will not be the same... But hey, better then some camgirl... At least I hope.
                                                                                                                                                      You can do it, it's definitely not impossible. It will take some practice, with whatever camera you end up with. But the real look of the few ifeelmyself videos I watched was creating by the lighting.

                                                                                                                                                      Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                      Spend you some brain.
                                                                                                                                                      Email Me

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • celandina
                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                                                          • 11715
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          What cameras the better camgirls use??? That may be adequate for my needs.

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

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