Umm.. Global Warming? Are we sure??
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What we seem to be getting lately is symantics issues. I believe in global warming, but for me the jury is still out on whether HUMANS have contributed in some statistically significant way. To me it's not "global warming versus natural cycle", it's "human activity CAUSING warming (y/n)".
No doubt slashing rain forests has some negative effect simply because less trees = less CO2 processed by trees. I dont need more info on that particular aspect to decide that more living trees = better for everyone.
Just like I dont need more info to decide that less greenhouse gasses released directly into the atmosphere by factories and power plants in the world = better for everyone.
Forget the forest, just look at the trees in this case.43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.
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I gotta question here
what exactly is the ideal temperature for earth?
if scientists cant agree on that how the fuck are they going to tell me that the earth is warming? or cooling?
The earth 's climate is cyclical, there once were orange groves in south GA, S GA is now way too cool to grow orange trees.
I honestly think we have way more important problems at hand than "global warming" there are too many factors involved to determine if we have any effect and all and even whther its bad or good.
Theres shit out there could wipe out civilization here in the blink of an eye...dont buy it? ask the dinosaurs LOLMike South
It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.Comment
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No one can deny the correlations. There is a strong correlation between human industrual activiy and climate / weather fluctuations. Unfortunately, there was climate volatility in the pre-industrial world - how is that explained? What is the magnitude of the effect of human activity on the system? Are there factors whose effect on the system is many orders of magnitude greater than human activity?What we seem to be getting lately is symantics issues. I believe in global warming, but for me the jury is still out on whether HUMANS have contributed in some statistically significant way. To me it's not "global warming versus natural cycle", it's "human activity CAUSING warming (y/n)".
No doubt slashing rain forests has some negative effect simply because less trees = less CO2 processed by trees. I dont need more info on that particular aspect to decide that more living trees = better for everyone.
Just like I dont need more info to decide that less greenhouse gasses released directly into the atmosphere by factories and power plants in the world = better for everyone.
Forget the forest, just look at the trees in this case.
It's like, say you have a big swimming pool that is the earth's climate. There is a GIANT drain in the bottom of the pool. The change in the system is the change in water level. So what is the human activity? is it equivalent to poking tiny pinholes in the liner? causing a change, measurable but insignificant?? I mean, if there is 1 pinhole in the liner.. it is true that the water level is decreasing, however small the change. But what about the drain?? Maybe changes in solar activity is equivalent to opening the GIANT drain in the pool, causing a rapid and massive drop in the water level.. or maybe it IS true that human activity adds another giant drain to the pool, or makes the big drain significantly larger. The fact of the matter is, I don't think we really know what the causal relationship is.I died.Comment
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Whether you believe in global warming or not isn't the issue for me. In my opinion it can't hurt to change one's lifestyle a little and become greener. I haven't driven a motor vehicle of any kind to get to work in 18 years. I've replaced several bulbs in my home with the longer-lasting more energy efficient ones, I installed water displacers in the backs of the toilet tanks many years ago in my house and rental property, I use an electric mower, have had the house insulated inside and out, I recycle, and I am walking and biking now more than ever. It's a start anyway, but I'm sure I am greener than most.
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Yeah, I dont think we can say one way or the other. Just do whatever we can if we want.
I've also had CFL's since before they were popular. In 77 when my family moved we bought a black n decker electric mower. Never ran over the cord even once. Thing never died either, and always started. Flip a switch, mower's on. Half the noise too. It's hard to imagine (for me) that gasoline powered 2 stroke engines for "home use" have not been banned, but hey thats just me. I still think that "leaf blower" is just another name for "you annoying piece of shit, turn that fucking gas sucking smelly pollution maker off and try a rake unless you prefer my foot in your ass". but thats just me.
43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.
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No reason to show disgust. Even today, let alone just before the little Ice Age happened, volcanoes polluted the earth far more than humans ever can or will. Add in the oceans, which do the same thing every day, far beating humans. All the natural crap we burn and use, well the earth does the exact same thing with it, at much much much more massive levels, daily.
We are hurting, humans... not earth. I'm all for keeping the earth and air clean, but for the safety of human life, not for the boiling rock that can fart methane gas at a level so large than all life would die the next time someone light a smoke.
Some far greater things going on with earth, the sun, the universe, than the ants that like to think they running the show.
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I completely agree. It often gets lost in the arguing and name calling that most debates degrade into that just because you might question global warming doesn't make you anti-green. It's a net positive when you conserve energy / resources in any way possible - whether it be electricity, gasoline, water, etc.Whether you believe in global warming or not isn't the issue for me. In my opinion it can't hurt to change one's lifestyle a little and become greener. I haven't driven a motor vehicle of any kind to get to work in 18 years. I've replaced several bulbs in my home with the longer-lasting more energy efficient ones, I installed water displacers in the backs of the toilet tanks many years ago in my house and rental property, I use an electric mower, have had the house insulated inside and out, I recycle, and I am walking and biking now more than ever. It's a start anyway, but I'm sure I am greener than most.
The question is, how green are you?I died.Comment
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So I read this little article:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...nspot-mys.html
apparently the sun isn't ramping up its sunspot activity like it's supposed to - last couple times it happened it resulted in 1 mini ice age and 1 gigantic 1000 year long ice age..
How would Toyota market its cars without global warming?? What would political candidates base election platforms on if there isn't the big bad global warming boogy man - what will Al Gore's next career move be? what will every little enviro-nazi do with their spare time???
in your1st post you accuse people of being sheeple- *buying* the global warming marketing strategy.I completely agree. It often gets lost in the arguing and name calling that most debates degrade into that just because you might question global warming doesn't make you anti-green. It's a net positive when you conserve energy / resources in any way possible - whether it be electricity, gasoline, water, etc.
yet, the 2nd post you state you are basically green and above namecalling/arguing
non sequiturComment
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And the amount of money I've saved is astronomical. 18 years of not driving a car to work = huge dollars.I completely agree. It often gets lost in the arguing and name calling that most debates degrade into that just because you might question global warming doesn't make you anti-green. It's a net positive when you conserve energy / resources in any way possible - whether it be electricity, gasoline, water, etc.
15 years of water saving methods
And now that the house is fully insulated the savings on heat every year is crazy.
I'm loving this go green thing.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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I did not know they even made a diesel lawn mower, had to Google it.
You must be a lot younger than I thought if your grandfather had a push mower and not your dad.Comment
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So environmental consciousness cannot exist mutually exclusive of green marketing? You're trying to point out an inconsistency, yet there isn't one.
If I buy a CF lightbulb that a) lasts longer than a filament bulb and b) saves me money, that's a little different that buying a prius. I never claimed to be "green" - I drive a car with a 5.7L engine for example - what I said what that making environmental choices that reduce energy use have a net positive effect on both the environment and your pocketbook. Neither of which have anything to do with global warming / climate change.
Global Warming has become a political term, and most people like things dumbed down as much as possible, they want to know the "package" they are dealing with when talking to someone. It becomes troublesome when a person can be skeptical of global warming and yet environmentally conscious, since most people just "buy-in" to the whole lot.I died.Comment
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Whether you believe in global warming or not isn't the issue for me. In my opinion it can't hurt to change one's lifestyle a little and become greener. I haven't driven a motor vehicle of any kind to get to work in 18 years. I've replaced several bulbs in my home with the longer-lasting more energy efficient ones, I installed water displacers in the backs of the toilet tanks many years ago in my house and rental property, I use an electric mower, have had the house insulated inside and out, I recycle, and I am walking and biking now more than ever. It's a start anyway, but I'm sure I am greener than most.
The question is, how green are you?


I agree on most thing you stated, and I am wondered by your positive green behavior.
You all must know its not just about global warming, this issue is much more complex. The root of the problem is the huge increase of greenhouse gas emissions lately. Did you know that WATER is a top greenhouse gas? The effect of global warming is desertification. The effect of devastating the jungles are the same. The population of Earth is growing. It needs more food and clean water. More desert: fewer places to plant crops. Global warming should be a normal process but the human activity is boosting it for sure and this can be very nasty in like 20 years from now.
If anyone is leaving adult ever, I suggest to invest in food or water industry because of the growing need is already increasing the prices and it will continue steadily for a while.
We can argue some more but for me its very simple:
Do you want your kids to grow up and see forests and nice green environment or you don't care and shit into their future by polluting the planet to death?
A lot of dutch webmasters here, they must know its no joke, they have to be top-notch in water management to keep the water out with exceptional dams and whatever? One-third of NL was under was a century ago [these are now called "polder areas"]? Imo even the low chance of getting flooded could make 60% of the dutch people shit their pants : if water is coming inside 60% of them have to move, because they live under the sea level :P
If you're interested and don't know about this, read about Kyoto Protocol.
Besides the food and water problem we also face energy addiction problems. Tank gas or use any kind of energy at home or anywhere is most likely related to pollution: producing the energy the "usual way" comes with different kind of pollutions: we have to take care of nuclear waste of the nuclear plants and energy made of coal is the cheapest but most polluting form of energy source. China does coal mining and most of their energy is made of coal. When you mine coal, you have to mine it when its dry, therefore you need to install tons of waterpumps near that zone, and they are sucking out the pure and clean water seriously damaging the stocks (right now in Kuwait the clean water is more expensive than petrol). Plus pumping the water out of a huge zone for 20-40 years (the lifetime of a coal mine) makes all green areas to run dry as well [haha I was researching this exactly in NL in 2005 as an ERASMUS student
].
Again, you can give a fuck, but if you care at least a bit please a bit more environment friendly. If you don't know whats that take a day out and eat some mushrooms outside in the summer sun in a park for example. It will convert you for sure ;)-=- Register with our ref link and we help you with the setup! -=-
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"green-ER"
As in greener than gas. And yes, it's quite economical. And as a side bonus, mine just happens to be whisper quiet. No pissed off nieghbors.
And no, I'm not going to quibble over it. The expert assessment guy from the gov't I had to the house twice last year when I did my insulating also said electric is greener than a gas mower.
Obviously the best is a push mower. I'm not about to go that green with the lawn car. I use manual hedge clippers, that's as far as I'm willing to take it, for now.
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They still make brand spanking new push mowers, including the superior cutting "reel" style
An electric mower is "better" than a gas one IMHO because it doesnt pollute directly where you live, and the noise level is so much more tolerable. Just pretending the fuel for gas and electric was exactly the same, there are still advantages to using the electric one, even if it's a plug-in and not a rechargeable.
Of course, if you have a kid and a push mower, you're all set
43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.
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Actuallyyyyy.... while I was outside just now mowing my grass with my whisper quiet electric, the elderly neighbor lady who can barely lift a fly was out with her new push mower, one of those new ones. She was cutting that grass pretty easily it looked to me.
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i do see what you are saying now.So environmental consciousness cannot exist mutually exclusive of green marketing? You're trying to point out an inconsistency, yet there isn't one.
If I buy a CF lightbulb that a) lasts longer than a filament bulb and b) saves me money, that's a little different that buying a prius. I never claimed to be "green" - I drive a car with a 5.7L engine for example - what I said what that making environmental choices that reduce energy use have a net positive effect on both the environment and your pocketbook. Neither of which have anything to do with global warming / climate change.
Global Warming has become a political term, and most people like things dumbed down as much as possible, they want to know the "package" they are dealing with when talking to someone. It becomes troublesome when a person can be skeptical of global warming and yet environmentally conscious, since most people just "buy-in" to the whole lot.
i also believe that the current green marketing trend is opposite of how you say, except for the fact that consumers need to be told what to buy and they do go buy it when they are told.
american car manufacturers were poised to go beyond 2010 with SUVs for instance, as a result of all the green speak, many marques have canceled plans for future SUV models, slowed/halted production on current ones and have shifted manufacturing AND marketing to address the new need for green that consumers have.
i see the hypocrisy, hell, i've started referring to my neighborchick as the single serving granola girl. she yaps about green shit while she's drinking assembly line green tea from a small plastic bottle.


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You make some good points. But don't underestimate the destruction of an army of carpenter ants or termites on your wooden home.No reason to show disgust. Even today, let alone just before the little Ice Age happened, volcanoes polluted the earth far more than humans ever can or will. Add in the oceans, which do the same thing every day, far beating humans. All the natural crap we burn and use, well the earth does the exact same thing with it, at much much much more massive levels, daily.
We are hurting, humans... not earth. I'm all for keeping the earth and air clean, but for the safety of human life, not for the boiling rock that can fart methane gas at a level so large than all life would die the next time someone light a smoke.
Some far greater things going on with earth, the sun, the universe, than the ants that like to think they running the show.
I grew up with 2 steel mills and a coal plant in my town, right on the Ohio river. Everyone who lives there knows how terrible the water is in that river is and also how terrible the air smells.
While human pollution does not really affect the overall health of the earth, it does have an effect on the extremely fragile environmental conditions that humans need to live.
Honestly, it should be common knowledge that humans are directly affecting the Earth's environmental conditions. For a lot of people, you just have to look out your window to realize it.
There's a reason that you don't run your car inside with the garage door closed. Population increases everyday and vegetation decreases to make room for housing and stuff, which is effectively making your garage smaller and your exhaust pipe bigger.Comment
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The rest of what you said I basically agree with, but for the above portion I think it has less to do with global warming and more to do with the price of gas of late. When it used to cost $60 to fill up the SUV and now it's $120, a lot of people are no longer interested in buying another one, and are having trouble selling the one they have. One guy I know has a big diesel 3/4 ton and can't sell it for enough to cover what he still owes on it.american car manufacturers were poised to go beyond 2010 with SUVs for instance, as a result of all the green speak, many marques have canceled plans for future SUV models, slowed/halted production on current ones and have shifted manufacturing AND marketing to address the new need for green that consumers have.
Regarding the chick that lives next door to you, if she's that dumb AND hot.... then it's okay.
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Great post. I never understood why it's such a big deal to be a little more greener. No one is saying people should start walking 20 miles to work or not use AC in the summer. It's just about little things that help. Installing a fan to save on electricity in the summer. Insulating your home for the winter better. Most of these things will also save you money in the long run too.Whether you believe in global warming or not isn't the issue for me. In my opinion it can't hurt to change one's lifestyle a little and become greener. I haven't driven a motor vehicle of any kind to get to work in 18 years. I've replaced several bulbs in my home with the longer-lasting more energy efficient ones, I installed water displacers in the backs of the toilet tanks many years ago in my house and rental property, I use an electric mower, have had the house insulated inside and out, I recycle, and I am walking and biking now more than ever. It's a start anyway, but I'm sure I am greener than most.
The question is, how green are you?
None of this has to be about climate change, just healthier living. If you ever go through a major city in the summer, you can see the smog billowing overhead. No one here can tell me that inhaling that is good for you. That our ecosystem doesn't mind having tons of crap put into the air and waters. Our planet isn't as resilient as we think, small changes to the ecosystem can have massive effects on our lives. In the end, I'd rather be safe than sorry.Comment
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I like #2http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...te-reason.html
Seven reasons why people hate reason
* 23 July 2008
* Special Report from New Scientist
No one actually uses reason
If we had to think logically about everything we did, we?d never do anything at all, says neuroscientist Chris Frith.Comment
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http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...6-7583,00.htmlI DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector.
FullCAM models carbon flows in plants, mulch, debris, soils and agricultural products, using inputs such as climate data, plant physiology and satellite data. I've been following the global warming debate closely for years.
When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty good: CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the old ice core data, no other suspects.
The evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we were certain when it appeared we needed to act quickly? Soon government and the scientific community were working together and lots of science research jobs were created. We scientists had political support, the ear of government, big budgets, and we felt fairly important and useful (well, I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the planet.
But since 1999 new evidence has seriously weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming, and by 2007 the evidence was pretty conclusive that carbon played only a minor role and was not the main cause of the recent global warming. As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"
There has not been a public debate about the causes of global warming and most of the public and our decision makers are not aware of the most basic salient facts:
1. The greenhouse signature is missing. We have been looking and measuring for years, and cannot find it.
Each possible cause of global warming has a different pattern of where in the planet the warming occurs first and the most. The signature of an increased greenhouse effect is a hot spot about 10km up in the atmosphere over the tropics. We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes: weather balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends through the atmosphere. They show no hot spot. Whatsoever.
If there is no hot spot then an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of global warming. So we know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global warming. If we had found the greenhouse signature then I would be an alarmist again.
When the signature was found to be missing in 2007 (after the latest IPCC report), alarmists objected that maybe the readings of the radiosonde thermometers might not be accurate and maybe the hot spot was there but had gone undetected. Yet hundreds of radiosondes have given the same answer, so statistically it is not possible that they missed the hot spot.
Recently the alarmists have suggested we ignore the radiosonde thermometers, but instead take the radiosonde wind measurements, apply a theory about wind shear, and run the results through their computers to estimate the temperatures. They then say that the results show that we cannot rule out the presence of a hot spot. If you believe that you'd believe anything.
2. There is no evidence to support the idea that carbon emissions cause significant global warming. None. There is plenty of evidence that global warming has occurred, and theory suggests that carbon emissions should raise temperatures (though by how much is hotly disputed) but there are no observations by anyone that implicate carbon emissions as a significant cause of the recent global warming.
3. The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980). Land-based temperature readings are corrupted by the "urban heat island" effect: urban areas encroaching on thermometer stations warm the micro-climate around the thermometer, due to vegetation changes, concrete, cars, houses. Satellite data is the only temperature data we can trust, but it only goes back to 1979. NASA reports only land-based data, and reports a modest warming trend and recent cooling. The other three global temperature records use a mix of satellite and land measurements, or satellite only, and they all show no warming since 2001 and a recent cooling.
4. The new ice cores show that in the past six global warmings over the past half a million years, the temperature rises occurred on average 800 years before the accompanying rise in atmospheric carbon. Which says something important about which was cause and which was effect.
None of these points are controversial. The alarmist scientists agree with them, though they would dispute their relevance.
The last point was known and past dispute by 2003, yet Al Gore made his movie in 2005 and presented the ice cores as the sole reason for believing that carbon emissions cause global warming. In any other political context our cynical and experienced press corps would surely have called this dishonest and widely questioned the politician's assertion.
Until now the global warming debate has merely been an academic matter of little interest. Now that it matters, we should debate the causes of global warming.
So far that debate has just consisted of a simple sleight of hand: show evidence of global warming, and while the audience is stunned at the implications, simply assert that it is due to carbon emissions.
In the minds of the audience, the evidence that global warming has occurred becomes conflated with the alleged cause, and the audience hasn't noticed that the cause was merely asserted, not proved.
If there really was any evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming, don't you think we would have heard all about it ad nauseam by now?
The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory.
What is going to happen over the next decade as global temperatures continue not to rise? The Labor Government is about to deliberately wreck the economy in order to reduce carbon emissions. If the reasons later turn out to be bogus, the electorate is not going to re-elect a Labor government for a long time. When it comes to light that the carbon scare was known to be bogus in 2008, the ALP is going to be regarded as criminally negligent or ideologically stupid for not having seen through it. And if the Liberals support the general thrust of their actions, they will be seen likewise.
The onus should be on those who want to change things to provide evidence for why the changes are necessary. The Australian public is eventually going to have to be told the evidence anyway, so it might as well be told before wrecking the economy.Comment
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yah, she's hot. took me to this living food restaurant over the weekend. nothing cooked.The rest of what you said I basically agree with, but for the above portion I think it has less to do with global warming and more to do with the price of gas of late. When it used to cost $60 to fill up the SUV and now it's $120, a lot of people are no longer interested in buying another one, and are having trouble selling the one they have. One guy I know has a big diesel 3/4 ton and can't sell it for enough to cover what he still owes on it.
Regarding the chick that lives next door to you, if she's that dumb AND hot.... then it's okay.
basically one more step beyond vegan. i poured out my coconut water when she went to the bathroom.
but yes, mpg is an important component of the new marketing. for me, green means energy conservation- period.
also, not sure if y'all see the same thing happening in canadia but we're seeing a lot of oil co advertising toting their green initiatives/oil alternative research, all in the green theme.Comment
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You don't think the SUV thing has anything to do with the fact the economy sucks and gas is through the roof? Getting 10 MPG isn't as attractive when you're paying nearly $5 a gallon.american car manufacturers were poised to go beyond 2010 with SUVs for instance, as a result of all the green speak, many marques have canceled plans for future SUV models, slowed/halted production on current ones and have shifted manufacturing AND marketing to address the new need for green that consumers have.Comment
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Where did you go? I have been to a couple raw food restaurants with my daughter . . . you would think it would be cheaper than a surf and turf, but not so.Comment
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Heretic!!
Stepane Dion, the leader of the Liberal Party in canada, has an agressive carbon tax plan that will decimate the oil and gas industry in this country (Canada) and put tens of thousands of people out of work - politicians are the greatest threat to our society, not carbon
I died.Comment
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y0 pocketkangaroo, i appended my comments, in my my mind i think green is energy conservation, thus my too generalized comment.
i just checked the receipt, it's the tierra bella cafe- on pch at about ave i, i believe, we walked there.
the french toast was not 1/2 bad, made out of dehydrated things, had a smoothie that was super good actually, but the color threw me.Comment
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there you go again Steve...stirrin the pot!Odie
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Was the french toast made with real bread? One of the places I went to would never use "bread" but rather smash for stuff into a paste and let it dry on the sidewalk or something.Comment
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Right now it's global RAINING. Holy huge thunderboomer overhead batman!
Yet still I remain at the computer. :DPromote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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