The Sad State Of The SEO Industry

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  • Barefootsies
    Choice is an Illusion
    • Feb 2005
    • 42635

    #1

    The Sad State Of The SEO Industry

    An interesting opinion...


    Barry Schwartz is one of the most respected journalists in the SEO industry and when he wrote this article called The Sadness In The Industry the other day I was a bit surprised.

    When I wrote Why I dont Like 95% Of The SEO industry it seemed to upset a lot of people who thought it was a blanket statement about SEO. It was not at all. It was a statement about the PEOPLE in the industry. Pretty much every established SEO who has been around a bit that I know agreed with the post or atleast thought the points had some validity.

    I had Danny Sullivan (the godfather of SEO) on my webmaster radio show and I felt it was a very good show. From the beginning it was pretty clear that we agreed knowing SEO obviously is a very powerful skill but the industry needs to be held to some standards. There was a lot more to the discussion but that is the just of it. After the show there was a huge backlash against Danny for not coming at me with guns blazing? I think that even opened Danny?s eyes a little more at what I was talking about in regards to all these people who call themselves SEO?s.

    So the current state of SEO is no surprise to me. While I am not a professional SEO (I have never been paid to do SEO) we attend many internet marketing conferences and have become very good friends with the most accomplished SEO?s walking the planet.

    You pretty much have 2 groups of ?old school? SEO?s:

    Those who have celebrity status for what they have written about - These people have become venomous? They hate the fact that new people have come along with their blogs and made them irrelevant. They are super jealous of anyone who is recognized more then they are. The occasionally make forum posts or blog posts outing other SEO?s tactics so that people remember they still exist.

    Those who have celebrity status for what they have accomplished These guys have distanced themselves from the industry. They used to blog, be apart of forums, have radio shows but they have slowed way down. They never really cared about the spotlight in the first place and now that there is all this venom in the industry they would rather rack up contracts with companies for actually *DOING* SEO then writing or talking about it.

    Honestly I think the SEO profession is a victim of its own success.

    I love SEO? I love the way it works. I love optimizing sites for search engines. SEO is a important part of internet marketing. I still believe SEO will become less important as time goes on but that does not mean I do not respect the skill ATM.

    I feel very insulted when I am labeled a SEO and have for a long time. Are you proud to labeled a SEO?
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    Enough Said.

    "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"
  • Barefootsies
    Choice is an Illusion
    • Feb 2005
    • 42635

    #2
    Should You Email Your Members?

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    Enough Said.

    "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

    Comment

    • d-null
      . . .
      • Apr 2007
      • 13724

      #3
      it's all bullshit because it is a moving target that is subject to change overnight

      alot of people understand the basics to the way the algorithms work, so unless an 'expert' has some kind of conduit to inside knowledge within the search engine companies, those that are selling themselves as seo experts are just salesman

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      • 2012
        So Fucking What
        • Jul 2006
        • 17189

        #4
        Originally posted by Barefootsies
        wow, I've never seen that picture before. Thanks Johnny Cash
        best host: Webair | best sponsor: Kink | best coder: 688218966 | Go Fuck Yourself

        Comment

        • Barefootsies
          Choice is an Illusion
          • Feb 2005
          • 42635

          #5
          Originally posted by fartfly
          wow, I've never seen that picture before. Thanks Johnny Cash
          Should You Email Your Members?

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          Enough Said.

          "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

          Comment

          • Manowar
            jellyfish  
            • Dec 2003
            • 71528

            #6
            Mainstream SEO much be much more brutal that adult SEO

            Comment

            • polish_aristocrat
              Too lazy to set a custom title
              • Jul 2002
              • 40377

              #7
              and yet another copied article that 90% of GFY will treat as your own
              I don't use ICQ anymore.

              Comment

              • Barefootsies
                Choice is an Illusion
                • Feb 2005
                • 42635

                #8
                Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
                and yet another copied article that 90% of GFY will treat as your own
                I'm into bare feet and money,..... not SHOES.
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                Enough Said.

                "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                • cherrylula
                  lol
                  • Jan 2002
                  • 15969

                  #9
                  Celebrity status for SEO? Gimme a break. Are they in it for the glory, or the money?

                  There are people who succeed and don't need to brag about it or need fans.

                  SEO isn't going anywhere, and I could care less about others doing seo. But I can't stand drama queens.

                  Comment

                  • Jens Van Assterdam
                    The Dupre Pimp
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 6677

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Manowar
                    Mainstream SEO much be much more brutal that adult SEO
                    Thats where the real money is made...
                    Read TOS for signature rules

                    Comment

                    • The Judge
                      Confirmed User
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 1647

                      #11
                      professional seo, 'celebrity' seo, how pathetic. goOgLe is jew, you all work for jew

                      Comment

                      • xmas13
                        Confirmed User
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 5176

                        #12
                        I don't know a single "celeb" SEO.
                        ICQ 557504926

                        Comment

                        • pornguy
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 62910

                          #13
                          What bugs me about the SEO is that the links are so irrelevant Or at least a lot of them are. And then you find one in the top 10 thats not, and bam its replaced by one what is.
                          PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

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                          • d-null
                            . . .
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 13724

                            #14
                            Originally posted by pornguy
                            What bugs me about the SEO is that the links are so irrelevant Or at least a lot of them are. And then you find one in the top 10 thats not, and bam its replaced by one what is.
                            I've been awake for way too many hours to make heads or tails out of this.....

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                            • Barefootsies
                              Choice is an Illusion
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 42635

                              #15
                              Originally posted by The Judge
                              professional seo, 'celebrity' seo, how pathetic. goOgLe is jew, you all work for jew
                              Should You Email Your Members?

                              Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                              Enough Said.

                              "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                              • Cyndalie
                                Confirmed User
                                • Jan 2002
                                • 3615

                                #16
                                Can you source that article for me?
                                Cyndalie
                                Marketing Director
                                StoriesTraffic.com

                                Comment

                                • Why
                                  MFBA
                                  • Mar 2003
                                  • 7230

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by jetjet
                                  it's all bullshit because it is a moving target that is subject to change overnight

                                  alot of people understand the basics to the way the algorithms work, so unless an 'expert' has some kind of conduit to inside knowledge within the search engine companies, those that are selling themselves as seo experts are just salesman
                                  amen to that.

                                  Comment

                                  • Cyndalie
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Jan 2002
                                    • 3615

                                    #18
                                    Optimization is an art form. Most people try to overthink it. It's really just math with words. Get the formula right and it works every time.
                                    Cyndalie
                                    Marketing Director
                                    StoriesTraffic.com

                                    Comment

                                    • Barefootsies
                                      Choice is an Illusion
                                      • Feb 2005
                                      • 42635

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Cyndalie
                                      Can you source that article for me?
                                      shoemoney.com
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                                      Enough Said.

                                      "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                                      • shadowsdrop
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Nov 2005
                                        • 170

                                        #20
                                        A website is good enough if the SEs dont see it. SEO is indeed a profession.
                                        Sig too big

                                        http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html

                                        Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.com

                                        Comment

                                        • StarkReality
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • May 2004
                                          • 4444

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Cyndalie
                                          Optimization is an art form. Most people try to overthink it. It's really just math with words. Get the formula right and it works every time.
                                          That's the reason why I wouldn't call it an art. It's knowledge combined with the skills to automate certain grunt work on a very large scale, much more technical than many people think.

                                          Comment

                                          • woj
                                            <&(©¿©)&>
                                            • Jul 2002
                                            • 47880

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by jetjet
                                            alot of people understand the basics to the way the algorithms work, so unless an 'expert' has some kind of conduit to inside knowledge within the search engine companies, those that are selling themselves as seo experts are just salesman
                                            Yea, no kidding, it's 10% knowledge 90% sales, they are all really just trying to convince people that they are better than the next guy... when in reality they are all probably equally clueless, "real" seos couldn't be bothered to write blog posts, hang out on the boards, or to attend some lame conferences...
                                            Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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                                            • Barefootsies
                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                              • Feb 2005
                                              • 42635

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by woj
                                              Yea, no kidding, it's 10% knowledge 90% sales, they are all really just trying to convince people that they are better than the next guy... when in reality they are all probably equally clueless, "real" seos couldn't be bothered to write blog posts, hang out on the boards, or to attend some lame conferences...
                                              That is something I find interesting about the mainstream online business versus the adult... and maybe it's what ShoeBitch is referring to about the SEO celebrities.

                                              If you are in, or follow, mainstream online business or listen to WM radio you see that some of these 'big names' in mainstream are at almost EVERY conference, and on EVERY panel talking about whatever and hob nobbing, or name dropping Matt Cutts and other supposedly high search engine and other affiliate people.

                                              I think this is probably more of what the SB is referring to in regards to some SEO's being up on a pedestal.

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                                              Enough Said.

                                              "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                                              • Young
                                                Bland for life
                                                • Nov 2004
                                                • 10468

                                                #24
                                                shoemoney owes whatever little internet fame (did i really just say that?) he has to that picture posted above. he got into the ringtone game early...before it was profitable. right around the time people were hacking Nextel phones with nexjal (or whatever). he provided a place that howard forums refused to become and the rest is history. he had the traffic and the members when ringtones really hit with crooked rebills and misrepresented ads.

                                                right place, right time. period.

                                                thats the case with most of these "internet celebs"....it's either that or who you know.
                                                Last edited by Young; 07-28-2008, 11:56 AM.
                                                ★★★

                                                Comment

                                                • Rui
                                                  web
                                                  • Dec 2001
                                                  • 9533

                                                  #25
                                                  Shoemoney is such a moron its not even funny...check out WF to see him get assraped back and forth (and with good reason)

                                                  Comment

                                                  • BaldBastard
                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                    • 16849

                                                    #26
                                                    All the guys I know who can't cut it in SEO any more now work for SEO companies and most are getting shitloads of cash for it.... go figure

                                                    Comment

                                                    • BradM
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Dec 2003
                                                      • 3397

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Rui
                                                      Shoemoney is such a moron its not even funny...check out WF to see him get assraped back and forth (and with good reason)
                                                      Yep, guy is a douche to the 9th.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • StarkReality
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • May 2004
                                                        • 4444

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Rui
                                                        Shoemoney is such a moron its not even funny...check out WF to see him get assraped back and forth (and with good reason)
                                                        He's on the WF most hated list for sure, many good reasons! But I'm too curious, I'll check out the beta of his new toolset anyway.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Barefootsies
                                                          Choice is an Illusion
                                                          • Feb 2005
                                                          • 42635

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Young
                                                          shoemoney owes whatever little internet fame (did i really just say that?) he has to that picture posted above. he got into the ringtone game early...before it was profitable. right around the time people were hacking Nextel phones with nexjal (or whatever). he provided a place that howard forums refused to become and the rest is history. he had the traffic and the members when ringtones really hit with crooked rebills and misrepresented ads.

                                                          right place, right time. period.

                                                          thats the case with most of these "internet celebs"....it's either that or who you know.
                                                          Agreed. That seems to be the case with a lot of these 'celebs' in mainstream online. They made their fortunes, and now peddle their advice.

                                                          I always wonder, and anyone with any sense should as well,... if you have the SEO game clocked so well. Why not make millions doing the affiliate game? Why settle for $50-75-100k working for someone else if you are so good?

                                                          I've had some of these SEO people call me from time to time. I used to entertain them a bit by listening to their sales pitches. The funniest part was that each one was different. So one would tell you one thing, and the next something completely different then the 1st. If you brought it up to them on the phone, they would say the other must be some noob consultant.



                                                          Now most of these "experts" are on forums and panels talking about being experts, leaving out the part about in 1997..
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                                                          • d-null
                                                            . . .
                                                            • Apr 2007
                                                            • 13724

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Rui
                                                            Shoemoney is such a moron its not even funny...check out WF to see him get assraped back and forth (and with good reason)
                                                            I just noticed some Shoemoney drama taking place today that some guy is blogging about here: Shoemoney Blog Meltdown
                                                            Last edited by d-null; 07-28-2008, 12:58 PM.

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                                                            • Barefootsies
                                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                              • 42635

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by StarkReality
                                                              He's on the WF most hated list for sure, many good reasons!
                                                              I think he's a mod over at the DP, and the queen of the azoogle ads section.

                                                              Originally posted by StarkReality
                                                              But I'm too curious, I'll check out the beta of his new toolset anyway.
                                                              Agreed. Might be spicy.
                                                              Should You Email Your Members?

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                                                              Enough Said.

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                                                              • Barefootsies
                                                                Choice is an Illusion
                                                                • Feb 2005
                                                                • 42635

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by jetjet
                                                                I just noticed some Shoemoney drama taking place today that some guy is blogging about here: Shoemoney Blog Meltdown
                                                                Wow.

                                                                What I find most interesting in this is that ShoeBitch is doing shit he bans others for.

                                                                If you ever criticize him in a thread, even if half joking, he bans you. If you do a search on DP (the more recent ones) for any thread slamming him, his blog, whatever. You find that most of the people in it are banned.

                                                                Hippocracy at it's finest.

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                                                                • pocketkangaroo
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jan 2005
                                                                  • 8452

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Guys like Shoemoney are annoying. Pretending they are rich to get noobs to sign up under their affiliate code. It's no different than those guys at 3am telling you how they'll get you rich if you sign up for their program.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Barefootsies
                                                                    Choice is an Illusion
                                                                    • Feb 2005
                                                                    • 42635

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Rui
                                                                    Shoemoney is such a moron its not even funny...check out WF to see him get assraped back and forth (and with good reason)
                                                                    Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                    Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                    Enough Said.

                                                                    "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Barefootsies
                                                                      Choice is an Illusion
                                                                      • Feb 2005
                                                                      • 42635

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by pocketkangaroo
                                                                      Guys like Shoemoney are annoying. Pretending they are rich to get noobs to sign up under their affiliate code. It's no different than those guys at 3am telling you how they'll get you rich if you sign up for their program.
                                                                      So I take it you are not one of his, "Shoeperstars"?

                                                                      Should You Email Your Members?

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                                                                      Enough Said.

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                                                                      • StarkReality
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • May 2004
                                                                        • 4444

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by pocketkangaroo
                                                                        Pretending they are rich to get noobs to sign up under their affiliate code.
                                                                        He recently said in an interview that he'd make 500 bucks a month from all his referred webmaster IN TOTAL So it's really ONLY noobs.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Barefootsies
                                                                          Choice is an Illusion
                                                                          • Feb 2005
                                                                          • 42635

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Rui
                                                                          check out WF to see him get assraped back and forth (and with good reason)
                                                                          ShoeMoney ShoeMoney is offline
                                                                          Status: Inactive
                                                                          Should You Email Your Members?

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                                                                          Enough Said.

                                                                          "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                                                                          • Barefootsies
                                                                            Choice is an Illusion
                                                                            • Feb 2005
                                                                            • 42635

                                                                            #38
                                                                            The Shoemoney Show Is Officially Cancelled

                                                                            By Daron | June 10, 2008

                                                                            In a meeting today and after several discussions, a decision has been made that the Shoemoney Show on WebmasterRadio.FM is officially canceled. We here at WebmasterRadio.FM have enjoyed working with Jeremy Shoemaker and his cohorts in business online. He had a unique style about him that will always spark debate, which is one of the reasons we asked Jeremy to host a show with us.

                                                                            As with others, personal & professional time constraints can weigh heavy sometimes on a show host to do the research and schedule their guests, etc?that sometimes its time to take a step back.

                                                                            We appreciate Jeremy?s contribution, and remind all of our listeners, that you will be able to still listen to archived shows on-demand anytime you like.

                                                                            Good luck to you Jeremy.

                                                                            http://blog.webmasterradio.fm/2008/0...lly-cancelled/
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                                                                            • Barefootsies
                                                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                                              • 42635

                                                                              #39
                                                                              When I first heard his show last year I got the real feeling of how long will this last? He was on hiatus and then tried to come back but his shows were odd, linkbait, and usually involved guests that Jeremy did not seem to be ready to interview.
                                                                              Pure gold...
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                                                                              Enough Said.

                                                                              "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                                                                              • TheDoc
                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                • 13827

                                                                                #40
                                                                                I really think it's far easier to get ranked, get good ranks, and get traffic today than it has ever been.

                                                                                Today, I think it's harder for spammers, it's not as easy for them to buy a bunch of temp/trash domains, burn ip's, get 100's of listings under the same group of keywords, and choose where they do and don't want to redirect traffic. Good times!

                                                                                So... SEO is much better game today. Today we simply have a few 1000 more people fighting for the same words/rankings.
                                                                                ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                                                                It's all disambiguation

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Matt 26z
                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                  • Apr 2002
                                                                                  • 18481

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Of course he bans people for speaking out against him. His image has value and he must protect that.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Barefootsies
                                                                                    Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                    • Feb 2005
                                                                                    • 42635

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by Matt 26z
                                                                                    Of course he bans people for speaking out against him. His image has value and he must protect that.
                                                                                    Do not question his 'expertise'...
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                                                                                    • Adult Creative Labs
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Jul 2008
                                                                                      • 221

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Cyndalie
                                                                                      Optimization is an art form. Most people try to overthink it. It's really just math with words. Get the formula right and it works every time.
                                                                                      I completely agree.
                                                                                      .



                                                                                      ICQ: 498299527
                                                                                      Email: sales -at- adultcreativelabs.com

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Barefootsies
                                                                                        Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                        • Feb 2005
                                                                                        • 42635

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Now you see why he gets da ladies...

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                                                                                        Enough Said.

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                                                                                        • Kevsh
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Dec 2004
                                                                                          • 8619

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Some of the best SEOs in the world you'll never see seeking fame and glory like the 'celebrities' you point out. It's clear that many are more interesting in being cool among their peers than actually doing something relevant.

                                                                                          Case in point, all these forums about SEO and people discussing natural language, keyword density, link baiting blah blah ... Anyone who knows SEO knows there are only 2 real types of SEOs out there: Black hat SEOs and rookies. Most of what you read there is for the rookies, it'll get you a nice little stream of traffic but not for serious rankings in truly competitive markets.

                                                                                          Oh, and the for-hire SEOs which are usually the ones trolling SEO forums offering advice. It's hilarious to see how the masses eat it up.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • tranza
                                                                                            ICQ: 197-556-237
                                                                                            • Jun 2003
                                                                                            • 57559

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Very sad!
                                                                                            I'm just a newbie.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Barefootsies
                                                                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                                                              • 42635

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Here is another SEO "celeb" that is at a lot of the mainstream shows as a featured asshat.

                                                                                              http://searchmarketingexpo.com/danny_sullivan.shtml
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                                                                                              Enough Said.

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                                                                                              • qxm
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Jul 2006
                                                                                                • 5970

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                so we rule there is no monies in SEO?

                                                                                                ICQ: 266990876

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Barefootsies
                                                                                                  Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                                                  • 42635

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by qxm
                                                                                                  so we rule there is no monies in SEO?
                                                                                                  I suppose it depends on who you ask...

                                                                                                  There is a paycheck for the grandpas of SEO who peddle their wares and knowledge from a decade ago.

                                                                                                  Plus they get internet fame on webmaster radio doing shows, like "Searchcast", where they can scream at the top of their lungs like flaming homo drama queens and tout their speed dial connections to Matt Cutts of Google.
                                                                                                  Should You Email Your Members?

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                                                                                                  Enough Said.

                                                                                                  "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                                                                                                  • TheDoc
                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                    • Jul 2001
                                                                                                    • 13827

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    I think SM got his money from PPC and not from SEO work.
                                                                                                    ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                                                                                    It's all disambiguation

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