3rd Circuit Court Rules on 2257

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  • Corey Silverstein, Esq.
    Confirmed User
    • Oct 2004
    • 562
    #1

    3rd Circuit Court Rules on 2257

    Article from XBiz:

    3rd Circuit Upholds 2257 Recordkeeping Law - XBIZ.com

    Read the Opinion Here:

    http://www.xbiz.com/docs/xbiz/news/1...2257_rhett.pdf

    I'm reading through the opinion now. So far though it looks like one of the major results of this decision is that the court ruled that the warrantless searches during inspections violate the 4th amendment and thus are unconstitutional.

    Big news here folks.
    Managing Member, Silverstein Legal | My Adult Attorney |
    corey at myadultattorney.com | ICQ #584182916 l Skype: corey.silverstein
    Telephone: 1-248-290-0655
    Tags: None
    • PR_Phil
      Confirmed User
      • Apr 2003
      • 1960
      #2
      Justice has a name!

        Comment

        • pornguy
          Too lazy to set a custom title
          • Mar 2003
          • 62910
          #3
          At a start that is good news. Lets see how it plays out and thanks for posting. Would be interesting to read more of what you think about it over all.
          PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

          AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online!
          TChicks.com | Angeles Cid | Mariana Cordoba | MAILERS WELCOME!

            Comment

            • Bladewire
              StraightBro
              • Aug 2003
              • 56220
              #4
              So few producers now.

              Politics & the legal system need to focus on tubes, and their aggregates now.

              Thanks for the info, much appeciated


              Skype: CallTomNow

                Comment

                • Corey Silverstein, Esq.
                  Confirmed User
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 562
                  #5
                  Originally posted by pornguy
                  At a start that is good news. Lets see how it plays out and thanks for posting. Would be interesting to read more of what you think about it over all.
                  Thanks; I'm planning on giving more of my thoughts once I'm able to get through all 64 pages. Stay tuned...
                  Managing Member, Silverstein Legal | My Adult Attorney |
                  corey at myadultattorney.com | ICQ #584182916 l Skype: corey.silverstein
                  Telephone: 1-248-290-0655

                    Comment

                    • Pornopat
                      AdultTubeSubmits.com
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 10598
                      #6
                      Originally posted by Corey Silverstein, Esq.
                      Thanks; I'm planning on giving more of my thoughts once I'm able to get through all 64 pages. Stay tuned...
                      I am staying tuned here.
                      https://stripcash.com/sign-up/?userI...fff832eb95ab6a

                        Comment

                        • The Porn Nerd
                          Living The Dream
                          • Jun 2009
                          • 19780
                          #7
                          Thanks for going over this for us Corey!!
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                            Comment

                            • deltav
                              Confirmed User
                              • May 2010
                              • 1243
                              #8
                              Originally posted by The Porn Nerd
                              Thanks for going over this for us Corey!!
                              Ditto. Much appreciated!
                              *********
                              DeltaofVenus.com - Vintage Erotica from the 1800s through 1979

                                Comment

                                • Barry-xlovecam
                                  It's 42
                                  • Jun 2010
                                  • 18083
                                  #9
                                  Thanks for posting that Cory.

                                  I have always maintained the 4th Amendment claim since the latest incarnation of the statute under the Bush Administration and AG Gonzales' watch. I am on the record on that one ;)

                                  For Fourth Amendment purposes you need probable cause. A warrantless search is not a fishing expedition.

                                    Comment

                                    • Rochard
                                      Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                      • Dec 2001
                                      • 75733
                                      #10
                                      How interesting is this?
                                      Herschel Savage
                                      Brooklyn, NY

                                        Comment

                                        • Elli
                                          Reach for those stars!
                                          • Apr 2003
                                          • 17991
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                          Thanks for posting that Cory.

                                          I have always maintained the 4th Amendment claim since the latest incarnation of the statute under the Bush Administration and AG Gonzales' watch. I am on the record on that one ;)

                                          For Fourth Amendment purposes you need probable cause. A warrantless search is not a fishing expedition.
                                          Well said!
                                          email: [email protected]

                                            Comment

                                            • mikesouth
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Jun 2003
                                              • 6334
                                              #12
                                              I posted on this earlier today

                                              In essence the law was upheld but the big fly in the ointment is that the records inspections will require a warrant, and as was noted here a warrant requires probable cause and as was not noted also provides an additional line of defense in that an improperly obtained warrant is grounds for exclusion of evidence obtained in the search
                                              I have always said that 2257 was very worng in that it forces me to prove that I didn't commit a crime that never happened in the first place. In other words I am committing a crime by not being able to prove I didn't commit a crime that only happened when i couldn't prove I didn't commit it.

                                              This decision fixes that and at least in my opinion is a correct decision.

                                              The records inspection team was disbanded in 2008 (IIRC) but would likely be re-introduced in a republican presidency, so the timing is also good.
                                              Mike South

                                              It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

                                                Comment

                                                • Spunky
                                                  I need a beer
                                                  • Jun 2002
                                                  • 133978
                                                  #13
                                                  We must stop the man holding us down!

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Dead
                                                      They left the door open
                                                      • Apr 2003
                                                      • 4746
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by PR_Phil
                                                      Justice has a name!
                                                      blind bitch?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • JFK
                                                          FUBAR the ORIGINATOR
                                                          • Jan 2002
                                                          • 67369
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by Pornopat
                                                          I am staying tuned here.
                                                          Me too

                                                          FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX
                                                          For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

                                                            Comment

                                                            • ManPuppy
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Aug 2011
                                                              • 407
                                                              #16
                                                              This is good news. I am curious, though: Has anyone here who is not Donny ever had an official document request, at their location, in person? How did it play out?
                                                              Manpuppy.com - Gay Dad & Son and Light Fetish
                                                              Affiliates: http://www.manpuppy.com/affiliates

                                                                Comment

                                                                • MiamiBoyz
                                                                  fgfdftre6
                                                                  • Oct 2012
                                                                  • 6688
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by ManPuppy
                                                                  This is good news. I am curious, though: Has anyone here who is not Donny ever had an official document request, at their location, in person? How did it play out?
                                                                  How is this good news?

                                                                  They could have thrown 2257 out completely...now THAT would have been good news.

                                                                  So now they need a warrant to do an inspection...guess what...all a judge has to do is sign a piece of paper and there you go. Not like they will have any problem finding a judge who is anti-porn and would rather "error" on the side of caution to "protect the children".

                                                                  This is NOT good news at all.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • pornlaw
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Feb 2007
                                                                      • 1902
                                                                      #18
                                                                      It will be interesting to see IF inspections are ever started again whether the govt uses improper notice compliance (ie using an email addy or PO Box) as the basis for probable cause and a means to get a warrant.

                                                                      That alone could take down quite a few sites especially amateurs that work from home & don't have an official office address.
                                                                      Michael

                                                                      www.AdultBizLaw.com

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • xXXtesy10
                                                                          Fakecoin Investor
                                                                          • Jul 2012
                                                                          • 7127
                                                                          #19
                                                                          still waiting for xvideos inspection
                                                                          WARNING: Stay Away From Marlboroack aka aka Brandon Ackerman
                                                                          http://gfy.com/21169705-post8.html
                                                                          Donny Long is Felon, Stalker, Scammer & Coward
                                                                          http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...lon-int-761244

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • mikesouth
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Jun 2003
                                                                              • 6334
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by MiamiBoyz
                                                                              How is this good news?

                                                                              They could have thrown 2257 out completely...now THAT would have been good news.

                                                                              So now they need a warrant to do an inspection...guess what...all a judge has to do is sign a piece of paper and there you go. Not like they will have any problem finding a judge who is anti-porn and would rather "error" on the side of caution to "protect the children".

                                                                              This is NOT good news at all.
                                                                              Not really true yes a judge could sign a warrant but as I said if the warrant was obtained without probable cause thats a solid line of defense.

                                                                              All in all this is the best outcome we could have hoped for...only the most optimistic and unrealistic people would have expected a total strike down of the law but the warrant requirement does put some fairness in it. At least they have to show cause that a particular girl in a particular video is under 18...remember warrants are very specific about what is being searched for...too broad and the warrant is kicked as a fishing expedition...its highly unlikely they can get a warrant to check every file on every girl on every video.
                                                                              Mike South

                                                                              It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Va2k
                                                                                  I’m still alive barley.
                                                                                  • Oct 2001
                                                                                  • 10060
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Very good news. Maybe just maybe I will come back and start shooting again for my own sites.
                                                                                  TOM

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                      It's 42
                                                                                      • Jun 2010
                                                                                      • 18083
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by pornlaw
                                                                                      It will be interesting to see IF inspections are ever started again whether the govt uses improper notice compliance (ie using an email addy or PO Box) as the basis for probable cause and a means to get a warrant.

                                                                                      That alone could take down quite a few sites especially amateurs that work from home & don't have an official office address.
                                                                                      I think ''probable cause'' would be at to the statutes purpose -- the protection of minors being used in pornographic depictions.

                                                                                      p. 8
                                                                                      Inspectors are further required by regulation to take
                                                                                      several steps at the time a search is conducted to reassure
                                                                                      producers of the lawfulness of any search. These include
                                                                                      presenting credentials and explaining the limited nature and
                                                                                      purpose of the inspection.
                                                                                      Interestingly the Judge used some of the same case law I cited years ago at YNOT in finding his conclusions. As I remember you said this was not relevant. Seems the sitting judge found their relevance ..

                                                                                      p 59

                                                                                      For example, in New York v.
                                                                                      Burger, 482 U.S. 691 (1987), the Court considered whether
                                                                                      automobile junkyards were part of a closely regulated
                                                                                      industry. In finding them closely regulated, the Court
                                                                                      observed that vehicle dismantlers were required to obtain a
                                                                                      license, register with the state for a fee, and prominently
                                                                                      display a registration number at the junkyard, on business
                                                                                      documentation, and on any parts or vehicles passing through
                                                                                      the business. Id. at 704. These regulations were backed by
                                                                                      civil and criminal penalties. Id. Moreover, junkyards had
                                                                                      been regulated for at least 140 years. Id. at 707.
                                                                                      In contrast with these industries, the Government fails
                                                                                      to identify any similar requirements for producers of sexually
                                                                                      explicit images. Nor are the regulations that the Government
                                                                                      does identify sufficient.
                                                                                      Licensure was another point I made in our discussions.
                                                                                      p. 60
                                                                                      To be sure, the Statutes require recordkeeping and labeling.
                                                                                      Yet no one is required to obtain a license or register with the
                                                                                      Government before producing a sexually explicit image. An
                                                                                      artist can pick up a camera and create an image subject to the
                                                                                      Statutes without the knowledge of any third party, much less
                                                                                      the Government. Nor has the Government identified any
                                                                                      regulations governing the manner in which individuals and
                                                                                      businesses must produce sexually explicit images. The
                                                                                      creation of sexually explicit expression is better characterized
                                                                                      by its lack of regulation than by a regime of rules governing
                                                                                      such expression.
                                                                                      Smart Judge
                                                                                      Now if this all isn't overturned en blanc like last time ...

                                                                                      As the Obama DOJ is without an AG, this should be a low priority and hopefully they will let this ruling stand without appeal -- this remains to be seen.

                                                                                      For me the effect is minimal; ACwebconnecting Group is not a US corporation. Its principal offices are in Rotterdam, The Netherlands. The statute is extraterritorial. We comply with Dutch Laws and retain documentation of performers' identity documents as proscribed by Dutch laws and protected by EU Directives on Data Privacy. You need a court order based on Dutch law for any disclosure.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • amvcdotcom
                                                                                          i like kitties.
                                                                                          • Jan 2004
                                                                                          • 886
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          bump
                                                                                          Email only: allen at/ amvc dotcom

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • pornlaw
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Feb 2007
                                                                                              • 1902
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Barry - 2257 has two criminal elements, notice & record keeping. I think probable cause will be loosely interpretered to mean - a good faith belief that there is action in the furtherance of a crime. Failure to post the proper notice is already evidence of a crime. That's what I would be telling a judge if I were standing there asking for a warrant.

                                                                                              Not posting a proper notice might be enough for probable cause for the warrant. I don't know. I do agree that with a proper notice being posted the govt will need to show at least the potential for a minor individual whom might have been used in a pornographic performance.

                                                                                              Since there's only been 1 conviction under 2257 and no appeals of the actual enforcement of the statute everything it's all speculation.
                                                                                              Michael

                                                                                              www.AdultBizLaw.com

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Idigmygirls
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Jan 2007
                                                                                                  • 498
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  I'm not convinced that there is anything good in this ruling at all.

                                                                                                  It seems to me that the porn industry always gets shafted. So, why will this be any different?

                                                                                                  How's this sound for "probable cause":

                                                                                                  "Judge, look at this picture and tell me you don't think there's a chance that this girl is under 18 years old. She looks pretty young to me. Says she's 18, but don't you think there's a chance she's just 17 and 11 months? Why don't you give us a warrant so we can make sure."

                                                                                                  I'm betting that holds up every day of the week. What judge wants to take the risk that they didn't allow a prosecutor to investigate a CP case? And what judge is going to throw that out for "not probable cause?"

                                                                                                  I don't think this ruling will afford any protection whatsoever.
                                                                                                  Red Light Center - Adult Metaverse
                                                                                                  https://www.redlightcenter.com

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Bladewire
                                                                                                      StraightBro
                                                                                                      • Aug 2003
                                                                                                      • 56220
                                                                                                      #26


                                                                                                      The reality is that there are attorneys in our industry that know exactly who the bad characters are, who is doing what, and exactly how to take them down. Yet we're sitting here talking about 2257 for the very few remaining producers, as tubes upload stolen "user" content and don't have to keep records.

                                                                                                      I've been a producer for 15 years, living off my adult income alone and raising a family. 2257 used to worry me. Now I'm worried if it's going to be one hour, or 5 hours before my fresh new update is on the tubes for free. I'm not going to sidetrack this thread but damn I wish we had more adult industry bulldog attorney advocates attacking the big guys instead of working for them. (not directed at any attorney's in this thread. I don't know who you guys work for)



                                                                                                      Skype: CallTomNow

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • Deej
                                                                                                          I make pixels work
                                                                                                          • Jun 2005
                                                                                                          • 24386
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          oh man. I hate to break it to ya but that sig is too big.

                                                                                                          You might retort with mine being a little overweight itself?

                                                                                                          Well see... mine has class to it.

                                                                                                          Deej's Designs n' What Not
                                                                                                          Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching


                                                                                                          Icq#30096880

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • MiamiBoyz
                                                                                                              fgfdftre6
                                                                                                              • Oct 2012
                                                                                                              • 6688
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by Idigmygirls
                                                                                                              I'm not convinced that there is anything good in this ruling at all.

                                                                                                              It seems to me that the porn industry always gets shafted. So, why will this be any different?

                                                                                                              How's this sound for "probable cause":

                                                                                                              "Judge, look at this picture and tell me you don't think there's a chance that this girl is under 18 years old. She looks pretty young to me. Says she's 18, but don't you think there's a chance she's just 17 and 11 months? Why don't you give us a warrant so we can make sure."

                                                                                                              I'm betting that holds up every day of the week. What judge wants to take the risk that they didn't allow a prosecutor to investigate a CP case? And what judge is going to throw that out for "not probable cause?"

                                                                                                              I don't think this ruling will afford any protection whatsoever.
                                                                                                              Thank you - That was what I was saying!

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • Ferus
                                                                                                                  Bye - Left to do stuff
                                                                                                                  • Feb 2013
                                                                                                                  • 4102
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  This wont change a thing. The local "christian" Sherif will kick your door Down anyways.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • Qbert
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jun 2004
                                                                                                                      • 813
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Ferus
                                                                                                                      This wont change a thing. The local "christian" Sherif will kick your door Down anyways.
                                                                                                                      Only if you are on his radar for some reason. That is true regardless of 2257. If the po-po puts a target on your back they will eventually find a reason to shut you down and/or lock you up. So... stay under the radar.

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Ferus
                                                                                                                          Bye - Left to do stuff
                                                                                                                          • Feb 2013
                                                                                                                          • 4102
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Qbert
                                                                                                                          ... stay under the radar.
                                                                                                                          Sad but true!

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • HotBoy392
                                                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                                                              • May 2015
                                                                                                                              • 3
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              So tube sites don't need to collect documentation? These just rely on end users and direct 2257 agents to them? Sounds like a ton of liability for them since sites like xtube.com don't even collect your information when you upload free videos.

                                                                                                                                Comment

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