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Peter Romero

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Vegas HD Video editors - How do you render? (Video)

06-29-2008, 08:18 AM

Vegas HD Video editors - How do you render & why?

How do you keep the filesize small and the quality premium? Why do you choose certain settings?

I'm trying to do 3000kbps & 8000kbps for my sites and having some trouble rendering and not having a 5 minute video take 2 hours to render and not having it be 300 megabites.

Should I convert to flash afterwards to make it easier to watch streaming?

Talk to me. ICQ, here, or both. I'm sure that there are others here having trouble switching from SD to HD that could use the help.

If you are in the San Diego area I may be needing an in house editor or consultant so here's your chance to impress me with your skills.

THANKS!!!

Here is a super slow clip in SD @ 2000mbps - http://www.petergirls.com/UPLOADS/Tr...uckin_HUGE.wmv I can't imagine how slow an HD clip will be.

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Peter Romero

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06-29-2008, 08:36 AM

I just checked my 5 minute render half way through @ 3000kbps and it has an hour and a half left and is already 445 megabites!!! HELP!!!

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#3

06-29-2008, 08:43 AM

pls post your PC specs

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Peter Romero

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#4

06-29-2008, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Yoni

pls post your PC specs

I don't know it. I've melted 2 harddrives since I bought it a year and a half years ago and I don't know what they replaced it with. Could this be the problem?

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munki

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#5

06-29-2008, 08:48 AM

What kind of setup are you editing/rendering on?

That's gonna be your main speed up when rendering.

Most of mine is done on a quadcore with 8 gbs ram... backup and network render setups are dual cores with 4-6 gbs each. Not to familiar with the vegas setup, but assuming the program and your operating system can handle that much ram it helps a ton.

As for HD qualities... at low sizes... play with h264 encoding, and within wmvs play around with vbr settings... you can squeeze a lot in if you get used to it... sacrificing audio quality a bit can help out... I noticed your sd clip was at 160kbps... don't really need porn that high necessarily. I typically encode around 96-128 kbps depending on application.

File sizes in the 400-500 mb plus range are going to be pretty common in hd rez's though, no matter what ya do, unless you want to start using really tricky codecs your users will have to go through extra hoops with, or sacrificing quality substantially.

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Yoni

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#6

06-29-2008, 08:52 AM

normally it takes 1 min (2 min) to render 1 min of video on my PC
I don't have a super fast system (2 Gb Ram, intel core 2 duo 6400)

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tony286

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#7

06-29-2008, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by Yoni

normally it takes 1 min (2 min) to render 1 min of video on my PC
I don't have a super fast system (2 Gb Ram, intel core 2 duo 6400)

Thats for rendering hd?
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Peter Romero

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#8

06-29-2008, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by munki

What kind of setup are you editing/rendering on?

That's gonna be your main speed up when rendering.

Most of mine is done on a quadcore with 8 gbs ram... backup and network render setups are dual cores with 4-6 gbs each. Not to familiar with the vegas setup, but assuming the program and your operating system can handle that much ram it helps a ton.

As for HD qualities... at low sizes... play with h264 encoding, and within wmvs play around with vbr settings... you can squeeze a lot in if you get used to it... sacrificing audio quality a bit can help out... I noticed your sd clip was at 160kbps... don't really need porn that high necessarily. I typically encode around 96-128 kbps depending on application.

File sizes in the 400-500 mb plus range are going to be pretty common in hd rez's though, no matter what ya do, unless you want to start using really tricky codecs your users will have to go through extra hoops with, or sacrificing quality substantially.

THANK YOU!!!

Actually, after I posted this, I stopped my render and messed around with the Video Bit rate and changed it from Quality VBR (Variable bit rate?) to CBR (Custom bit rate?) and it looks like it will end up around 20 megabites. YES!

I do have a dual core with about 8mb ram but after you said that I'm changing to a dedicated machine just for editing video.

Thanks for the tip on audio downsizing. What settings should I dumb that down to?

So... you are in the OC eh? Are you available for some personal consulting &/or editing work?

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Peter Romero

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#9

06-29-2008, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Yoni

normally it takes 1 min (2 min) to render 1 min of video on my PC
I don't have a super fast system (2 Gb Ram, intel core 2 duo 6400)

In HD? Or SD?

That's how long it used to take me for SD on Windows Media. But this HD is a whole new ballgame as I had to step up my game and buy some real editing software (Sony Vegas).

I'd rather spend more on hosting and keep my members than loose them right away due to low quality videos.

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Peter Romero

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#10

06-29-2008, 09:41 AM

Anyone else?

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TheSenator

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#11

06-29-2008, 10:16 AM

I can render one minute clips into FLV files in 3 minutes. I am using Flash CS3 Professional with setting set at Flash 8 -Medium Quality 400kbps, On2 VP6 at 400kbps, MPEG Layer III at 96kbps(stero), I cropped at 500 width with maintain aspect ratio.

Should I change anything????

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DirtyDanza

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#12

06-29-2008, 10:23 AM

peter no matter what with hd (true) you are looking huge file size plus long as render times

im on fast as hell computers and for an hour dvd it takes me around 9 hours to render out..

this is quality we are getting now at small file size

http://ddemedia.com/extreme/riley.html

Last edited by DirtyDanza; 06-29-2008, 10:24 AM.

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Jim_Gunn

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#13

06-29-2008, 11:57 AM

First you need a super fast pc for editing and encoding HDV or HD. I recommend an Intel Core2Quad processor for video editing and rendering & encoding. Also I never encode my final files (WMV, QT, MPEG etc) directly from my editing app, because a) editing apps often work too slow compared to a professional 3rd party video encoding app like Cleaner XL or Sorenson Squeeze, b) you can't do a batch process to do multiple frame sizes and bitrates at once, and c) you don't have the same level of control as you do with a full featured app, incl. for de-interlacing, adding watermarks and other filters.. You generally don't want to use use the default encoding profiles in your editing app, as they will likely take forever depending on the settings. At least in Premiere Pro, the better quality default profiles aren't set up with a first time user in mind and won't make any sense to use as they are!
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Peter Romero

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#14

06-29-2008, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Jim_Gunn

First you need a super fast pc for editing and encoding HDV or HD. I recommend an Intel Core2Quad processor for video editing and rendering & encoding. Also I never encode my final files (WMV, QT, MPEG etc) directly from my editing app, because a) editing apps often work too slow compared to a professional 3rd party video encoding app like Cleaner XL or Sorenson Squeeze, b) you can't do a batch process to do multiple frame sizes and bitrates at once, and c) you don't have the same level of control as you do with a full featured app, incl. for de-interlacing, adding watermarks and other filters.. You generally don't want to use use the default encoding profiles in your editing app, as they will likely take forever depending on the settings. At least in Premiere Pro, the better quality default profiles aren't set up with a first time user in mind and won't make any sense to use as they are!

Ah... that's what I was looking for. I have been custom encoding @ 3000kbps - 1440X1080i CBR mode, Audio: 96 Kbps, 44,100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo.
Video: 30 fps, 640x480, WMV V9 Compression.
Use this setting for high-quality video playback from a CD-ROM.

I'll try the 3rd party encoding software this week. Any other hot tips just using the Sony Vegas controls anyone?

Jim, can you show me a web ready sample @ those settings and @ that bit ratio?

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Peter Romero

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#15

06-29-2008, 03:16 PM

Bumpity, bumpity, bump...

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Jim_Gunn

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#16

06-29-2008, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Peter Romero

Ah... that's what I was looking for. I have been custom encoding @ 3000kbps - 1440X1080i CBR mode, Audio: 96 Kbps, 44,100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo.
Video: 30 fps, 640x480, WMV V9 Compression.
Use this setting for high-quality video playback from a CD-ROM.
Jim, can you show me a web ready sample @ those settings and @ that bit ratio?

Forget those default profiles, they are probably as useless in Vegas as they are in Premiere Pro. What you cut and pasted doesn't even quite make sense to me. Your original 16 x 9 HDV footage is 1440 x 1080i at a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33. So I don't know what that 640 x 480 means, since that is a standard def (4x3) frame size.

If you want to output a nice quality WMV movie for the web using your editing app , here is what you need to do.

Edit it, output to WMV at 3500 video Kbps rate, SQUARE PIXELS (1.0) with stereo audio at say 1280 x 720. You have to change the pixel aspect ratio, otherwise the output will be distorted. The resulting video look pretty decent at that frame size without being too huge in file size. Or you can do a smaller size at 480 x 270 at 1500 Kbps. In both cases make sure you de-interlace the footage on the timeline or on export. That is also very important. Always de-interlace if you are filming with a interlaced camera like teh Sony FX-7 and always export with square pixels.

Last edited by Jim_Gunn; 06-29-2008, 03:37 PM.
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#17

06-29-2008, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by DirtyDanza

peter no matter what with hd (true) you are looking huge file size plus long as render times

im on fast as hell computers and for an hour dvd it takes me around 9 hours to render out..

this is quality we are getting now at small file size

http://ddemedia.com/extreme/riley.html

Great clip by the way
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Peter Romero

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#18

06-29-2008, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by Jim_Gunn

Forget those default profiles, they are probably as useless in Vegas as they are in Premiere Pro. What you cut and pasted doesn't even quite make sense to me. Your original 16 x 9 HDV footage is 1440 x 1080i at a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33. So I don't know what that 640 x 480 means, since that is a standard def (4x3) frame size.

If you want to output a nice quality WMV movie for the web using your editing app , here is what you need to do.

Edit it, output to WMV at 3500 video Kbps rate, SQUARE PIXELS (1.0) with stereo audio at say 1280 x 720. You have to change the pixel aspect ratio, otherwise the output will be distorted. The resulting video look pretty decent at that frame size without being too huge in file size. Or you can do a smaller size at 480 x 270 at 1500 Kbps. In both cases make sure you de-interlace the footage on the timeline or on export. That is also very important. Always de-interlace if you are filming with a interlaced camera like teh Sony FX-7 and always export with square pixels.

The one with your settings is almost done rendering. Thanks for the specific info. I'm not understanding what de-interlacing is but I'll keep looking. Thanks for your help.

Anyone else got any hot tips?

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#19

06-29-2008, 10:17 PM

If you want to keep it HD... I wouldn't suggest clipping the rez down too low... big files are gonna happen... hd consumers are aware of this... if you have a 1080i file in... why not output back to 1080 and make sure you are getting every ounce of quality your content deserves...

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Peter Romero

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#20

06-29-2008, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Jim_Gunn

Forget those default profiles, they are probably as useless in Vegas as they are in Premiere Pro. What you cut and pasted doesn't even quite make sense to me. Your original 16 x 9 HDV footage is 1440 x 1080i at a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33. So I don't know what that 640 x 480 means, since that is a standard def (4x3) frame size.

If you want to output a nice quality WMV movie for the web using your editing app , here is what you need to do.

Edit it, output to WMV at 3500 video Kbps rate, SQUARE PIXELS (1.0) with stereo audio at say 1280 x 720. You have to change the pixel aspect ratio, otherwise the output will be distorted. The resulting video look pretty decent at that frame size without being too huge in file size. Or you can do a smaller size at 480 x 270 at 1500 Kbps. In both cases make sure you de-interlace the footage on the timeline or on export. That is also very important. Always de-interlace if you are filming with a interlaced camera like teh Sony FX-7 and always export with square pixels.

The 20 minute video I just did using the settings you gave me ended up better quality and 1/20th the size of the first one I did on the default settings. Kudos!!! How about some settings for a higer res version? Pretty please with Erros lube on top...

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#21

06-29-2008, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Peter Romero

The one with your settings is almost done rendering. Thanks for the specific info. I'm not understanding what de-interlacing is but I'll keep looking. Thanks for your help.

Anyone else got any hot tips?

de-interlacing is pretty easy to understand if you break it down

i vs p

progressive captures everything at once the whole shot like a picture (hence the film look) progressive is when each frame captures half the shot

think of the the shot as a football field

progressive will capture the whole field at the same time

the interlaced will capture in 1 frame all the odd yards then in another frame it will capture the even yards

thats a pretty basic Danza laymen version of it...

if you head over to dvinfo they explain it very well... there are some cool proggys that do great de-interlacing...

I think it uses a pull down method like a 2.2.3.2 or something thats just off the top of my head.... if you want to go more just icq me....

p vs. i is like chevy vs ford.. all personal pref.. I like a film look on some thins and the interlaced on others... for sports or anything with lots of movement you want to shoot in i

for fixed shots like cooking shows p looks amazing..

take a look at red cameras or do a google of i vs p

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#22

06-29-2008, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Peter Romero

The one with your settings is almost done rendering. Thanks for the specific info. I'm not understanding what de-interlacing is but I'll keep looking. Thanks for your help.

Anyone else got any hot tips?

De-interlacing is taking the large pixel like blocks that render out in video... out... basicly making it more flush than patchy...

depending on what res or wquality youre working with, you wont have to worry about it coming out... thats for lesser quality video than youre working with...

this is my understanding of de-interlacing...

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#23

06-29-2008, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Deej

De-interlacing is taking the large pixel like blocks that render out in video... out... basicly making it more flush than patchy...

depending on what res or wquality youre working with, you wont have to worry about it coming out... thats for lesser quality video than youre working with...

this is my understanding of de-interlacing...

Originally posted by DirtyDanza

de-interlacing is pretty easy to understand if you break it down

i vs p

progressive captures everything at once the whole shot like a picture (hence the film look) progressive is when each frame captures half the shot

think of the the shot as a football field

progressive will capture the whole field at the same time

the interlaced will capture in 1 frame all the odd yards then in another frame it will capture the even yards

thats a pretty basic Danza laymen version of it...

if you head over to dvinfo they explain it very well... there are some cool proggys that do great de-interlacing...

I think it uses a pull down method like a 2.2.3.2 or something thats just off the top of my head.... if you want to go more just icq me....

p vs. i is like chevy vs ford.. all personal pref.. I like a film look on some thins and the interlaced on others... for sports or anything with lots of movement you want to shoot in i

for fixed shots like cooking shows p looks amazing..

take a look at red cameras or do a google of i vs p

perhaps im wrong

Danza knows his video...

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Peter Romero

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#24

06-29-2008, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by munki

If you want to keep it HD... I wouldn't suggest clipping the rez down too low... big files are gonna happen... hd consumers are aware of this... if you have a 1080i file in... why not output back to 1080 and make sure you are getting every ounce of quality your content deserves...

If I could display it as the same size as I captured it I would. I never saw the benefit in using $100K in high resolution equipment just to squeeze it down to the smallest posible size. Plus, the harder it is to download... the harder it is to steal! Damn tube sites!!!

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Peter Romero

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#25

06-30-2008, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by munki

If you want to keep it HD... I wouldn't suggest clipping the rez down too low... big files are gonna happen... hd consumers are aware of this... if you have a 1080i file in... why not output back to 1080 and make sure you are getting every ounce of quality your content deserves...

Thanks for all your help and talking me through everything. If you or your program ever need anything... I mean ANYTHING... you contact me. The invide for you & your GF to come down to our Ranch and have dinner and drinks still stands. Kudos and much respect.

Peter Romero
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munki

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#26

06-30-2008, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Peter Romero

Thanks for all your help and talking me through everything. If you or your program ever need anything... I mean ANYTHING... you contact me. The invide for you & your GF to come down to our Ranch and have dinner and drinks still stands. Kudos and much respect.

Peter Romero
www.PeterGirls.com

Not a problem dood, was a pleasure talking, and I think I learned more than you... teh beauty of a win win...

After Xbiz and the schedule calms down a bit Beth and I will def be making it up your way to check out the homestead... that view looked incredible.

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Peter Romero

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#27

06-30-2008, 09:01 PM

Thanks for everyone's help in this thread. My render speeds have gone waaaaay down and my productivity has gone way up!

KUDOS!!!

Trying to figure out batch rendering for Sony Vegas. Anyone know where it is?

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