Obama wants payroll tax on incomes above $250,000

Yes the USA is the only country in the world where one can get ahead in life. WOW

Actually that's a complete and outright lie. Those periods were the periods of slowest growth in terms of tax revenues.

Lowering the oppressive tax rates of those times was a good thing, but making up bullshit facts to try and support your case is wrong.

Not the only - but certainly the most popular...... wouldn't ya agree?

WHAT RECESSION??????????????? We are not in a recession!!!!!!!! geeeez!


You can say it all you want - but ECONOMISTS and ECONOMIC MEASURES have rules to follow - and the definition of a recession is TWO CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS OF NEGATIVE ECONOMIC GROWTH!!!!

Here's a hint for ya... we haven't even had one much less two - so No recession! Just because CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC and the like say it every night - still don't make it true!!!!

Opps... Sorry - MY BAD!!!!

AND if your Making 250k-600k, please tell me you cannot afford the estimated $12 increase in your taxes. LMAO.

how many times does this fucking nation of idiots have to relearn the lesson that you can't punish success as a means to fix social problems?

how many times does this fucking nation of idiots have to relearn the lesson that you can't punish success as a means to fix social problems?

You're not punishing success. Like I will say again higher taxes during clinton lots of fortunes were made.

Let's see the spending though

That kind of money doesn't go far if you live in NY or other major cities. A 12% increase for this group could very well cause them to close up their business operations, or stop them from expanding their business.

The logic only works when you're talking about 'successful' people who make $250k. If you penalize these people, you can put them in dire straits. You create a huge underclass by penalizing the middle class and upper middle class. If you increases taxes on the super rich, they're still super rich. How is that penalizing them? You think the super rich are going to jump ship because they make $2 billion instead of $3 billion?

That kind of money doesn't go far if you live in NY or other major cities. A 12% increase for this group could very well cause them to close up their business operations, or stop them from expanding their business.

OH YEAH!!! SPENDING is the real problem! Not taxes!!

This discussion CANT go the direction of spending though.. cause we dont have enough space left on the web to talk about that... plus, i dont wanna have to off myself at the end of the conversation. Dem or Rep - they BOTH spend the SHIT out of the money!

Huh, well, if you're going to tax the uber successful in your country a billion dollars each you better be prepared for the economic fallout that comes with it,


is all I'm saying.

How Taxes Work

Since it is tax season....It's good to understand how taxes are paid.
Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with
the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since
you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the
cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But
what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted
that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man
would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each
man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work
out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued
to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to
compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything
at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down
and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them
for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact,
they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier. Remember they are the ones who pay your wages, create jobs, and innovate.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia[/COLOR]

What fallout? With all the money the rich get to keep now, the economy is in the toilet. I was listening to a story about a guy in IT , cant get a job went on 75 interviews in one year and is now going to work as a driving instructor. He is a degreed professional.The country is in the shitter for the middle class and we have most billionaires. Trickle down doesnt work.

people are dumb and getting dumber everyday. I have totally given up on humanity. For the 10,000,000,000th time, some jackass will come to power on the platform that life is unfair and he can fix it for the lowest common denominator. and for the 10,000,000,000th time, all those idiots who have no concept the basic fundamentals of macro economics, much less how a government actually functions and bills are passed, are going to be sorely dissapointed.

but who gives a fuck right? blindly line up behind a a guy who's 1/2 dead already, a vile cunt, or a racist idiot who says nothing but "change" and "hope" - its much easier than critical thinking.

we are once again directing our attention away from the worship of success to promoting the "everyones a victim" mentality full time.... and we suffer for it as a nation. those two ideas can't exist together. either you believe in people and their potential to overcome and achieve or you don't. we have no direction as a nation. no sense of self identity as a nation. we have no collective values other than the same old stupid rhetoric of 300 years ago that people chant like retarded monkeys without even stopping to think about what they are saying, what it means or how this nation was even formed and grew to what is today.

its totally unreal that the USA is becoming a nation of losers with their hands out waiting for someone to fix their lives for them.

fuck you people. i'm leaving.

http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-g...t/reag***t.htm

"The Reagan tax cuts, like similar measures enacted in the 1920s and 1960s, showed that reducing excessive tax rates stimulates growth, reduces tax avoidance, and can increase the amount and share of tax payments generated by the rich. High top tax rates can induce counterproductive behavior and suppress revenues, factors that are usually missed or understated in government static revenue analysis. Furthermore, the key assumption of static revenue analysis that economic growth is not affected by tax changes is di sproved by the experience of previous tax reduction programs. There is little reason to expect static revenue analysis to evaluate the economic or distributional effects of current tax reform proposals much better than it evaluated the Reagan tax program 15 years ago."

Then you'll be voting for Obama I take it.

What fallout? With all the money the rich get to keep now, the economy is in the toilet. I was listening to a story about a guy in IT , cant get a job went on 75 interviews in one year and is now going to work as a driving instructor. He is a degreed professional.The country is in the shitter for the middle class and we have most billionaires. Trickle down doesnt work.

That kind of money doesn't go far if you live in NY or other major cities. A 12% increase for this group could very well cause them to close up their business operations, or stop them from expanding their business.

Dude, look around at this business alone and see how many people who make 7 figures a year have left this country. And that just THIS INDUSTRY. And no, they didn't do it because of the porn laws, they did it because of the tax situation. Look at how many of the major adult companies aren't registered in the US.

Are times tough for IT guys? Yep - one of the biggest reasons is because they were making great money so more and more got degrees. More people for the same number of jobs and guess what? Oh, now I bet you're going to pull the "outsourcing card". See my first paragraph - companies are leaving the US.

That kind of money doesn't go far if you live in NY or other major cities. A 12% increase for this group could very well cause them to close up their business operations, or stop them from expanding their business.

Dude, look around at this business alone and see how many people who make 7 figures a year have left this country. And that just THIS INDUSTRY. And no, they didn't do it because of the porn laws, they did it because of the tax situation. Look at how many of the major adult companies aren't registered in the US.

Are times tough for IT guys? Yep - one of the biggest reasons is because they were making great money so more and more got degrees. More people for the same number of jobs and guess what? Oh, now I bet you're going to pull the "outsourcing card". See my first paragraph - companies are leaving the US.

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_b...0310290853.asp


The only problem with this analysis is that it is historically inaccurate. Reagan may have resisted calls for tax increases, but he ultimately supported them. In 1982 alone, he signed into law not one but two major tax increases. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA) raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year and the Highway Revenue Act raised the gasoline tax by another $3.3 billion.

According to a recent Treasury Department study, TEFRA alone raised taxes by almost 1 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. An increase of similar magnitude today would raise more than $100 billion per year.

In 1983, Reagan signed legislation raising the Social Security tax rate. This is a tax increase that lives with us still, since it initiated automatic increases in the taxable wage base. As a consequence, those with moderately high earnings see their payroll taxes rise every single year.

In 1984, Reagan signed another big tax increase in the Deficit Reduction Act. This raised taxes by $18 billion per year or 0.4 percent of GDP. A similar-sized tax increase today would be about $44 billion.

The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 raised taxes yet again. Even the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which was designed to be revenue-neutral, contained a net tax increase in its first 2 years. And the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 raised taxes still more.

The year 1988 appears to be the only year of the Reagan presidency, other than the first, in which taxes were not raised legislatively. Of course, previous tax increases remained in effect. According to a table in the 1990 budget, the net effect of all these tax increases was to raise taxes by $164 billion in 1992, or 2.6 percent of GDP. This is equivalent to almost $300 billion in today's economy.

Yep I am, Im not rich not like all the GFY millionaires. Also I like working in the adult industry, we get more conservative supreme court justices kiss that good bye. Also People forget after Bush 1 the country was in a mess and a democratic came in and the country boomed. We need another Democratic to clean up the mess.

The major thng you're missing, with far greater implications, is he's going to remove the cap on social security contributions.

Right now we pay about 7% of your income up to about $100k. And if you're self employed you pay the employers share as well, so you actually are paying about 13.5%.

Obama's plan is to remove all pretence of social security being "contributions" for your own retirement and simply make it a massive tax where the people who earn bigger incomes pay for the retirements of everyone else.

So, if he gets elected and you want to calculate your future tax rate, take 14% off the top, then take 38% of whats left (thats what the top rate will be reverting to, and the Dem congress has already enacted it for 2011), then take a few % for medicaid, then take your state income tax rate.

In NJ I'll be paying 64% of my income in taxes. Think that will make all the haters happy? I bet not.

Meanwhile half of all Americans pay 0%. The half that vote for Obama.

If you work for yourself, or you have a good job, you'd better get a pen and paper and see what the cold hard fact of his tax increases will cost you over a year.

You are clearly are very pro-republican and probably wouldn't ever vote democrat.

Who Pays the Most Income Tax?
Higher income earners pay the most, Treasury says

whats the point? the only response people are left with is "see, they're just greedy" and the only plan of action can be to tell everyone you are going to somehow create legislation to fuck with a free market, rather than let it correct and thrive.

"you're a victim" is the only product we sell in this country these days.

if i hear about one more kids sports game where no one keeps scores so feelings don't get hurt... i'm joining the fucking taliban... at least they know what they want and what tey stand for.

This is why I don't have a fix on economics yet. There is too much conflicting information I have yet to weed through. Some will say there was tremendous growth under Reagan because he cut taxes. Another person will say he increased taxes basically every year he was in office. If he increased taxes and their was tremendous growth, what does that say about the affect of taxes on economic growth.

Anybody care to address Tony's post?

So if you know that they are spending more than they are making and that this is the real problem then why are we talking about taxes?

I think my buddy mojo said it best on a similar thread over on JBM today, so I'll let his words educate a few here on just what that negative "economic fallout" I mentioned earlier might entail...

People, get a clue. Gouging the rich in order to "fix" everything and make all your woes magically go away is not the answer.


And Peaches, good post, good points.

Why are some of you fuckers feeling so sorry for the rich? They sure as fuck don't give a shit about you?

If your buddy is going to be paying 64 percent he should fire his accountant.

Opps... Sorry - MY BAD!!!!

http://www.cbpp.org/10-16-03tax.htm

want to try again?

I applaud Buffet. This makes no sense.

Dude, look around at this business alone and see how many people who make 7 figures a year have left this country. And that just THIS INDUSTRY. And no, they didn't do it because of the porn laws, they did it because of the tax situation. Look at how many of the major adult companies aren't registered in the US.

Are times tough for IT guys? Yep - one of the biggest reasons is because they were making great money so more and more got degrees. More people for the same number of jobs and guess what? Oh, now I bet you're going to pull the "outsourcing card". See my first paragraph - companies are leaving the US.

There is NOTHING like UNBIASED information:

According to New York Times reporter Matt Bai, CBPP is one of three left wing think tanks funded by the Democracy Alliance. The other two are the Center for American Progress and the Economic Policy Institute. According to Bai's account, representatives of CBPP and the other two Democracy Alliance-sponsored think tanks attended the May 2006 meeting of the Democracy Alliance at the Barton Creek Resort near Austin, Texas. Their role was to "talk about the agendas they were busy crafting that would catapult Democratic politics into the economic future."