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i like waffles -
"Remember when all we had to do was put up a banner, and sales would come?"
Ever think that maybe this is because all there was were banners? There was hardly any free content, and those who had it paid a lot for it.
No one to blame but ourselves, blame tube sites all you want, but the problem started way before they came around.Comment
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soon all the big dogs will launch tube sites and there will be as many online as TGP's
end of the day we are giving away our bread and butter. i dont care what anyone says.
I'm thinking about launching a free dating site and Tube site very soon if i dont see a change in the biz. as I'm sure everyone else will as well, lets just give everything away free fuck it!
the only way we will make big bucks again is if we censor all the free shit no pussy or dick then people will pay and stay longerComment
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This is the law of diminishing returns.
If you have a program, being sold by one affiliate, and that affiliate makes 30 sales per day; and you add 20 more affiliates and they all make 5 sales per day, then you add 100 more affiliates, and they all make 2 sales per day.
A market goes through a cycle of development, growth, maturity, and then retreat.
When you have hundreds of affiliates all promoting the same product, then they can expect a diminishing return. There are a absolute number of surfers, and if all affiliates provide them the same offerings, then you can expect - as more affiliates join the market - that your slice of the pie will shrink.
Diversification, I think, is the key to success (the same as any market). If you are caught in the maturity stage in a markets cycle then you can expect your sales to remain constant (not good - unless you are growing you are shrinking), if you are in the retreat stage in the cycle, then you can expect your sales to shrink. The maturity stage should forewarn you of the retreat stage; at which time you must diversify your offering to capture the development and growth cycle of the markets next rotation.
Doing any different will spell shrinking $$$.Comment
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There is no money in porn. end of storyComment
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I hope COPA does come around again and pass.
Free porn is dangerous to all sides.
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the whole US is on a down. a big down. luckily porn is international, and resists recessions and depressions well, like alcohol and tobacco.
Dennis69 your signature is rediculously HOT.
Contact Me - ICQ: 206851710 eMail vic (at) hellhousemedia (dot) com
'Satanism is like Capitalism for teens' - Ty HellHouseComment
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My sales are still fine.Comment
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It's similar to TV advertising. Disruptive technologies like Tivo make it hard to sell ads now because the people buying ads know a much smaller % of people actually see them. That and people are so immune to ads now even if they see them it doesn't have any effect on them. A similar change is happen in our industry right now.Comment
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Hardly a bash. Very well put. Actually I've seen the desktop stripper thing for ages and never really looked into it. I'm surprised it would be that popular, most people's computers aren't entirely private and some stripper randomly showing up on the desktop could lead to some embarrassing situations. No doubt I'm sure you've addressed that concern somehow.Well, we're going up. We're giving a kickass product for free, users get a new girl dancing on their desktop every day for free and they can buy for as low as $2 if they want to see her naked. We show the whole member's area, don't fuck them (no adware/spyware/xsells) and guess what? They come back and buy more.
I'm not saying Desktop Strippers are the answer to the problems of the industry, we convert extremely well on traffic that suits us (up to $0.20 cents per click sent, check all our affiliates detailed statistics here: http://www2.totemcash.com/free/statistics.php) but this is not where I'm going. I believe the dominant business model in this industry (recuring membership, PPS for affiliates) should change. We're doing way more money today charging users per girl and building trust than before trying to sell membership. I guess it was a close call before between the two models, but it's not anymore with all the tube sites around. I personaly believe the next model revolves around tube site selling scenes in HD pay per view/download. Once the user found the niche he wants to jerk off on, it's the best time to provide him with the best video on that niche, in good quality for a very low price. Of course you won't be able to advertise for $35 per free trial with that, but maybe one day affiliates will start looking at how much they do per click...
my 2 cents, bash away
You mentioned the word trust. Consumer confidence would be another term for it. I think you're right about the standard pay site model but I think subscription, at least in other forms will still work but not with pay sites. More like an unlimited VOD while you are a member.
I was at a talk by Paul Graham at Stanford a while back and he was talking about how Google was successful because they are basically good.
http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html
Some good stuff there.Comment
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For the three years I have been in adult I have a slowly rising revenue stramSkype Horusmaia
ICQ 41555245
Email [email protected]
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Why hasn't anyone sued any of these big tube sites with illegal copyrighted movies???icq 156131086Comment
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I think the word would spread quick if these illegal tube sites were getting slapped with lawsuits left and right. But ya you are right about the money thing. The tube owners would just avoid putting up videos from companies that would sue and stick with those that wouldn't.icq 156131086Comment
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I assume, even after reading this discussion, what we can see here is a certain state of disorder, to sum it up, there are a couple factors I would examine as crucial:
1) there is more porn than ever on the market competing for the surfer and his credit card, mostly the same "clones" of what turned out to be succesful in 2000/ 01 or so
2) at the same time, it's the first time in the history when surfers have an IMMEDIATE access to free pirated porn, that doesn't require any semi technical skills or even waiting, immedate access to satisfaction with the content, that is totally similar to what most of the marketers are pushing.
3) on the top of that, for the first time, it's not the porn producer, but the consumer, who decides what he wants and what's available, just check all the big old school brands with their high quality product and how many of them bleed.
It's the first time when anyone can expose their ass, the definition of porn has changed, the consumers are not dependent on what producers put on the market but they can create even their own thing.
4) the consumer base is educated, and it's more and more consumers that already joined a paysite in the past, the internet in households is spread for say 10 - 12 + years and honestly, raise your hand who never searched for porn on the web.. These consumers are more demanding and know the old tricks.
5) Porn is not a luxury thing, it's a need, and there will be always a demand for that, unless it will be available for free, as far as it's a need, you'll just grab whatever turns you on to get off, the same as if you're hungry you grab a junk food to satisfy your basic need. This is a parallel to the tube porn vs. higher quality paid porn.
6) there is not much variety in the way the paysites are promoted over the years, just it's more promoters and more paysites around than ever, that's why blogs or review sites are still a succesful promotional tool, because they give the surfer a recommendation, a referrence, they amuse him, creating certain loyalty, they have character, instead of trying to grab the surfer for the product trying to amaze him simply with the obvious fact that he is seeing porn he saw already hundred times, as thousands of other sites do.
Just tried to do a little summary, feel free to add your thoughts.Last edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 06-11-2008, 04:45 PM.Need hosting, cloud, CDN or solutions for your AI? Go faster while saving with The Last Host you'll ever need!| Double Impact PR | Telegram carl_boro | Read My Educational Series | Read my Adult Biz Chronicles|Comment
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If you look at things from a surfers point of view -- then the choice between a large MGP and a Tube site is a no-brainer. When a surfer hits a MGP they see a thumb they like, they click it, and get sent to some other site. They see another thumb on this new site, they click it, and get sent to another site, etc. etc. etc. The same surfer goes to a tube site, they see a thumb they like, they click it, they watch it. The surfer is happy! The surfer bookmarks the tube site and never goes back to the MGP.
Instead of adadpting and confronting the new reality of the web -- MGPs are carrying on like it is business as usual, whilst they lose their surfers, and their money. The MGP business model is in decline, and has passed it's maturity stage. The tube site has left it's development stage and is now in it's growth stage. As the tubes grow, and the MGP decline -- it is the failure of the MGP to change that is setting them up for continued failure and ultimately obscurity.
Here is a chart showing the rise of a medium sized tube site, and the decline of a very large MGP. Remember -- if you are not growing, you are shrinking. Names deleted to save embarrassment / conflict;
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I invented failing porn niches...
“I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.” -Oscar Wilde
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I saw that happen in a few places using Alexa also but everyone around here says Alexa does not matter! LOL! At anyrate since it is here now and the cat is out of the bag.
Finding these crosses is not to hard. Pick some of your favorite TGP's and compare them with some of the popular tube sites. Its fascinating to see where the cross happens.
Now if we can take these charts and contrast them with sales trends...
I am betting the sales trend drops as the Tube site climbs.
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Well I wont block the names...
Here...
Be sure to sit down guys before seeing this...
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http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! |
http://www.FightThePatent.com | ICQ 52741957Comment
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on general forums where surfers might happen to mention porn once in a while, I have seen them recommend sites like youporn or pornbb to each other but nobody ever recommends a tgp or mgp... as the months go by it is getting rarer and rarer to find those that don't know where to get lots of free content, even in face to face conversations in the bar I've heard guys recommending redtube or youporn to buddies
__________________
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Looking for designs for your websites or custom tubesite design? Hit up Zuzana Designs
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How about a secret club of old schoolers who pay monthly dues, pool the money and pay russian and filipino kids to constantly bring these pieces of shit offline. It's obvious that they're here to stay and that their bullshit illegal practices can only be combatted by equally dirty and illegal practices.Comment
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Thank you!
Tubesites and Share Sites. Who is going to pay $30-$40/month plus cross-sells when you can get full site rips for free? I probably can get any site witthin a couple of hours ripped& zipped & dowloadable on Rapidshare & Co. if I know in which forum to post the request.
I've been bringing this up in here and other places for over a year now but nobody seems to give a shit. Oh well, start liking it, and make single girl niche sites, and you'll always have a trusty fan base...Jenny Seemore
Pornography is the bloody gladiator who stands guard over the First AmendmentComment
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Alexa's Top 100 sites picks:
10. RapidShare
21. YouPorn
30. Redtube.com
32. MiniNova
59. The Pirate Bay
71. Isohunt.com
91. Torrentz.comicq: 612510168 / email: [email protected] / php ninja 4 hireComment
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The problem is actually bigger than you begin to know, and goes way beyond copyright violations. The question is, why would someone want to put up a free share site and burn terrabytes of transfer volume ever minute of the day?
The answer is: On every illegal sick and fucked up Zootube, Rapeforum, Snuff-forum, NN-share-stolen-shit-Site out there, you'll see a banner of a major, supposedly reputable company popping up.
It works like this:
-have someone put up a free tube or share site
-have supposedly anonymous users upload totally sick content
-share the content for free (you didn't know a "Rapeboard" promotes rape)
-then put your banner on top and ask visitors:
"Wanna date chicks that like it rough in your zip code: Join the Adult Rape Finder HERE!"Jenny Seemore
Pornography is the bloody gladiator who stands guard over the First AmendmentComment
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Good discussion and points
i like wafflesComment
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Traffic being up and increased revenue are 2 completely different things. Very few in this business have any kind of business sense, and feel the only way to compete is by giving away as much as possible out of desperation. And when you do not produce the content or have a stake in it you simply do not give a shit. Every day more and more consumer are trained to no be paying consumers of porn because of the amount of stolen content available and shady billing practices of some programs.
Thats the truth.
Pricing...
The only ballers in this business are the ones that gouge YOUR surfers and charge them over $100 for memberships through prechecked/hidden xsales and shady trials. Look where you send your traffic and see if YOU are feeding the problem.Last edited by commonsense; 06-14-2008, 02:42 AM.Comment
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gas prices, inflation, and a poor economy. maybe once we get a dem in office things will be better
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That's right, as long as it brings traffic (=money) they don't give a shit whether it's stolen content, rape, beastiality, snuff, kp, or rebels cutting women's breasts off with machetes. I always was a strong supporter of a free, uncensored Internet, but after seeing what I've seen in the past 12 months I have my own doubts about that.
Eventually two things are going to happen, and both will mean the end of the Internet as we know it.
1. Something really sick and disgusting is going to happen and will be used by the Feds as an excuse to censor, may be even in a joint effort with the EU. There are already talks.
2.Big telephone companies are going to step in, demanding a piece of the cake too. They'll use the Tube sites as an excuse to charge their customers per Gigabyte, which will be the end of the free Internet. It's already in the make, it's just on hold because of election year.Jenny Seemore
Pornography is the bloody gladiator who stands guard over the First AmendmentComment
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You are apparently totally clueless about how the Internet works. ISPs rent from telephone companies, it's the big companies like AT&T in every country that make the rules, together with the government, both, in the US and Europe.
If, let's say, Deutsche Telekom in Germany charges per Gigabyte, all the ISPs have to follow because they rent from them.
As for the censorship, it has already started in France
http://blog.t1production.com/french-...censor-the-web
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1034_3-6237715.html
and the UK is most likely to follow suit. Bookmark my words, and pull it up again in two years.Last edited by Jenny S.; 06-14-2008, 06:41 AM.Jenny Seemore
Pornography is the bloody gladiator who stands guard over the First AmendmentComment
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Sorry you're a surfer and member so your opinion does not count. Now if you were an affiliate everyone here would be licking your balls. </sarcasm>
And the above post and my reply tells you why so many members are not buying over and over. We built it to suit ourselves and not the customer. The customer has now decided a Tube site is better value than most paysites. You can't or won't close Tube sites, so you have one option. Make a paysite so much better those who will pay will join. Leave those who won't burning the Tubes BW.Comment
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"1. Something really sick and disgusting is going to happen and will be used by the Feds as an excuse to censor, may be even in a joint effort with the EU. There are already talks. "
Even a adult check to keep minors out of out netorks would be helpful...
I am hoping that some regulation comes via an international effort and I do believe it should be a TLD.
One of the reasons why I backed the .sex extension believing that it might help slow the glut of free porn and unverified adult sites with some regulation. Unfortunatly .sex was all about greed and no effort for real self regulation and at the 11th hour I changed my mind about it as the facts of it were not fair or just for the industry.
If such a thing come forward again I hope that it is wrritten properly and drafted correctly to protect our industry, while keeping minors out.
.Sex could work if the right guys were behind it and the concept was not greed centric.
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FUCKING ACE POST
I SEE THE WORLD FROM THE PRODUCERS POINT OF VIEW, SO TAKE IT AS THAT VIEW.
This is so true. So many sites are churned out with porn that has no feeling, emotion and true personality today many surfers are asking themselves why pay $30 for a site with 50 scenes that are no better or different than a Tube site? Many sites are full of porn shot by the same person, sometimes a guy who has a years experience or a shooter on a budget that simply does not allow him to shoot decent porn.
Many many top sites buy in content that is massed produced and crap. The surfer sees no value to it because the sponsor put no value on it. He might of asked the shooter to do 5 solo girls sets and videos on a day for $1500. This country was full of shooters shooting low quality porn with shooters and girls going through the motions.
For 8 years I told you content is king and you told me I was wrong. Well the truth is unless you have a site the surfer will sign up to and stay you have to keep sending vast amounts of traffic. Traffic that had decided a Tube site has more to offer.
3) Your offerings grow increasingly out of touch with the demands of consumers. This could be a combination of customer demand changing or simply producers shooting stuff that customers don't care for. I think it's more the latter. How many shooters actually watch porn on a personal level? Shooters are motivated to get more work they are "playing it safe" and have come up with their own rules of what is correct. As a consequence there isn't much variety to all the content out there. Everything is the same.[/QUOTE] Spot on. This side of porn has always looked down on porn, the producer and consumer. Many here think this is an Internet business, it's not it's porn delivered on the Internet.
How many here consume, like, pay for or even understand porn? Very few and this had led to the industry selling to itself and ignoring what the consumer needs. When someone comes in and takes the consumer away from them it's always someone else's fault. If you lose a client it's your fault for not meeting his needs, not the fault of the guy who picked him up. That customer was looking else where.Comment
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If you don't know why people should buy, why are you selling?
This post tells you so much about why this business is suffering.
Porn = Fantasy the user can believe in, empathize with and arouse him/her.
I've looked on the tube sites and they're full of scenes of girls faking it with little coming from them. The girl is just a piece of meat because she put no personality into the scene. On top of this is the "comedy" why are they there, what do they like, who are they? So many here say they don't want this, this is people who don't pay for porn and will jerk off to anything dictating the content we sell. Small wonder we produced content not worth buying.
It takes skill to produce porn. It's not something anyone with a camera and a naked girl can do. I told you this for the last 8 years, you told me I was talking nonsense. Now the consumer has spoken.
We made our bed, now we have to lie in it.Comment
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And you're thinking is spot on. Mostly we produced porn at a price or shooters who don't have a clue. The result was bland porn that was just like white bread, tasteless but filled you up. You can't charge people $30 for stuff that is not worth $30 year in year out. Eventually they will move over.
If you produce crap porn that's no better than what's on a Tube site why should the surfer pay?Comment
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So for my last post in this thread, before all the flamers arrive, this is my solution for some.
A) Produce porn the consumer wants to buy. It's that simple and if you don't know how or what then you should not be in the business. Put the same effort into the product as you do the traffic and you will find you need less traffic.
B) Meet the customers needs not your needs more. Some guys want to be in a site for a year, some a month and some 20 minutes. You need to decide who you can aim to sell to and sell to him. If he wants 20 minutes sell him 20 minutes at a price he will pay or lose him Clips4sale does it. If he wants 2 days, sell him 2 days, he will find trials he will cancel the moment he joins if you don't. If he wants 30 days give him a site worth 30 days. Same porn, different shooters, different girls (unless a good solo girl site) it's surprising how many sites are full of the same scenes, repeated time after time and that scene is on other sites time after time.
C) The consumer is a repeat buyer. And not a one off impulse buy. Produce what sells to the man with the money, not what generates traffic and sells to webmasters. Porn is a very disposable product, once bought and used it's usually discarded and the buyer moves on to the next scene. The guy who buys it knows it, understands it and loves it. If you don't how can you sell to him?
Many buyers have been ripped off or disappointed over the years that they are now very hard to sell to. Some of you sent traffic to sites that long term would hurt you. Welcome to the result. I would bet many people looking for porn on Tube sites have bought memberships and now decide they're better off keeping their money in their pocket.
FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU, FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME.
Now you can all tell me I'm clueless and you guys know it all.
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