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Rochard

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#1

Credit cards and tipping

05-13-2008, 08:13 AM

Last night my wife and I and some friends went out for Pizza. There was eight of us, including two kids. The menu said that a tip of 15% would automatically be added to parties of eight or more, and we had eight.

My wife and I picked up the tab - $86. My wife signed off on the credit card slip for $18. The couple that was with us left behind a tip.

This morning we wake up to find that we were charged $102, not the $86 my wife had signed off on. It seems to us that they added this amount on after we had left.

I could care less about the money - it's not a huge amount - but I'm stunned that they felt they could charge our debit card after we had left for an amount we didn't agree on.

Should I be pissed off and go speak to the manager of the pizza place?

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#2

05-13-2008, 08:20 AM

Yeah you should be outraged first of all by the fact that they automatically charge you anything more than the price of food. That a tip was left behind when it was on the bill already which you signed.

PLUS the fact that they stole money you did not authorize.

Restaurants suck.

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#3

05-13-2008, 08:21 AM

This happened to me as well. I called the place and they explained to me that when they charge the card it opens up a charge of the amount plus a percentage for tip. This way they are assured the charge will clear. He told me to check my records a day or two after and you will see the correct amount. When I did the amount charged that I signed for was there. Just like when you use your debt card for gas they open up a debt of $50 at most places.
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#4

05-13-2008, 08:21 AM

call the manager and get some free pizza ...unless you are really rich..

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#5

05-13-2008, 08:24 AM

Did the charge go through or is it just a pending charge? When I go out to eat and use my debit card, ill see a pending transaction for a larger amount then i signed for, but when the charge settles (usually in a day or two) it goes to the right amount.

However, theres been a few times where Ive been charged more than I signed for. I just call the bank and fax a copy of the receipt and the bank credits my account so I dont have to talk to the merchant

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Rochard

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#6

05-13-2008, 08:31 AM

I understand that when you walk into a gas station they authorize you for a decent amount because they don't know exactly how much you'll be spending, and sometimes that charge can linger for a day or two. But this was pretty much a straight transaction, not an open tab type of situation. They brought us a bill after dinner, my wife handed over the debit card, and they brought us the sales receipt and my wife signed off for $86.

The more I think about this the more pissed I'm getting. If your staff is into the habit of charging my credit card for more than I agreed to pay.... Isn't that illegal?

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#7

05-13-2008, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Rochard

Last night my wife and I and some friends went out for Pizza. There was eight of us, including two kids. The menu said that a tip of 15% would automatically be added to parties of eight or more, and we had eight.

My wife and I picked up the tab - $86. My wife signed off on the credit card slip for $18. The couple that was with us left behind a tip.

This morning we wake up to find that we were charged $102, not the $86 my wife had signed off on. It seems to us that they added this amount on after we had left.

I could care less about the money - it's not a huge amount - but I'm stunned that they felt they could charge our debit card after we had left for an amount we didn't agree on.

Should I be pissed off and go speak to the manager of the pizza place?

I worked in the service industry for 9 years. Alot fo times credit card/debit cards will automatically add a 15 to 18% charge to your final bill. They do this temporarily to insure that if you tipped on your card that you had enough in your account to cover it. When your credit/debit card is run in a resturant it is not put through at the time for what could end up being the full amount so the credit card companies compensate for that. At the end of either the shift or week (depends on a resturants or bars policy) the credit cards are "settled" which entails adding in any tips written on the cc slip or $0 if left blank. You could call the resturant and ask them when they "settle" their credit cards and that should give you an idea of when your account should be adjusted. Usually takes just a day. You could also make sure that if your wife tipped on top of the added gratuity that the 18% was on the bill amount not total amount.

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#8

05-13-2008, 08:40 AM

anytime i use a credit card or debit card at a restaurant you can almost guartentee that for at least 3 days the amount shown on your statement is higher than what you paid

it will drop off

pretty common

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#9

05-13-2008, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Rochard

I understand that when you walk into a gas station they authorize you for a decent amount because they don't know exactly how much you'll be spending, and sometimes that charge can linger for a day or two. But this was pretty much a straight transaction, not an open tab type of situation. They brought us a bill after dinner, my wife handed over the debit card, and they brought us the sales receipt and my wife signed off for $86.

The more I think about this the more pissed I'm getting. If your staff is into the habit of charging my credit card for more than I agreed to pay.... Isn't that illegal?

All restaurants charge for a certain percentage over the bill amount. It is built into their system. As said, wait until the charge settles and then see what you are charged.
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#10

05-13-2008, 08:52 AM

Yeah, wait another day or two Roc. Does your statement say 'pending' next to the charge?

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#11

05-13-2008, 08:57 AM

yup, this was likely just a case of a pre-authorization, like others have pointed out.

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#12

05-13-2008, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by 12clicksMichele;14183999Alot fo times credit card/debit cards will automatically add a 15 to 18% charge to your final bill. They do this [B

temporarily[/B] to insure that if you tipped on your card that you had enough in your account to cover it.

Was basically going to say the same thing
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#13

05-13-2008, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

Yeah you should be outraged first of all by the fact that they automatically charge you anything more than the price of food. That a tip was left behind when it was on the bill already which you signed.

PLUS the fact that they stole money you did not authorize.

Restaurants suck.

Its not the resturant that does this. Its the credit card companies that put this policy into place and "protect" themselves by adding the extra amount allotted for a tip.

With that said if you use your credit card or debit card at any establishment that you write in a tip amount after your card has been run you should ALWAYS fill it out completely. If you are going to tip cash make sure to either clearly cross out where the tip is written or write a big zero. Also ALWAYS total it out. Leaving that blank can allow a dishonest person write in whatever they want. Im my 9 years in the industry I told people that over and over. While it wasnt anything they had to worry about at my bar it happened alot of other places. It seems like common sense but you have no idea how may times people would scribble their name at the bottom and leave everything else blank

Last edited by Vicious_B; 05-13-2008, 09:25 AM.

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#14

05-13-2008, 09:40 AM

I just have a problem with the entire industry. They employ people for less than minimum wage, forcing them to rely on "tips", yet they automagically take the tip anyway in cases like Rochard describes. Thats bullshit. You pay your people what they're worth, period.

Tipping was supposed to be a little something extra for service *above and beyond* what you pay for on the menu!

I can understand the way people dont see it like that anymore, because it's become ingrained that you're "supposed to" tip this person or that person. Fuck that And so instead of being that one jerk off who doesnt tip, I simply dont go to such places. I know, I'm a dick. But I dont feel well and I'm in a mood, so there ya go.

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#15

05-13-2008, 09:43 AM

If I ever bought a restaurant, the first thing I would do is make it a profit share, and second thing I'd do is set a pay rate above anything any other restaurant offers. =success.

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#16

05-13-2008, 09:47 AM

I'd be VERY pissed...

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#17

05-13-2008, 09:53 AM

I knew a girl that worked as a bartender. If the customer did not take his receipt she would add her own tip on top of the tip that was already left. For example, someone left $10, she would scripple over and make it $15 or whatever.

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#18

05-13-2008, 10:02 AM

Why would you use a credit card at a restaurant anyway ?

"It's like saying, here's all my money, present and future, take a chunk of it."

Fuck them. Pay cash, leave a tip if you feel like it, and that's the end of the story.
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#19

05-13-2008, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

I just have a problem with the entire industry. They employ people for less than minimum wage, forcing them to rely on "tips", yet they automagically take the tip anyway in cases like Rochard describes. Thats bullshit. You pay your people what they're worth, period.

Tipping was supposed to be a little something extra for service *above and beyond* what you pay for on the menu!

I can understand the way people dont see it like that anymore, because it's become ingrained that you're "supposed to" tip this person or that person. Fuck that And so instead of being that one jerk off who doesnt tip, I simply dont go to such places. I know, I'm a dick. But I dont feel well and I'm in a mood, so there ya go.

I partly agree with you. You shouldnt have to tip for less than stellar service in any industry where you tip (stylists, waitresses, nail techs ect). If you want to make money in the service industry you need to willing to make "above and beyond" your normal level.

The minimum wage for people in the resturant business is set by the same people that set the regular minimum wage, not the resturants which is currently $2.13 an hour in Jersey.

In all my time bartending and waitressing I made a good chunk of change not because people felt "obligated" to tip me but because I always did everything I did to make sure they had a great time.

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#20

05-13-2008, 10:04 AM

us porn people hate charbacks

im sure the restoraunt industry must hate em too !

do it lol

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#21

05-13-2008, 10:11 AM

I'd be pissed, call your cc company and contest it, they will remove the WHOLE charge sometimes.. good way to stick it back to the resturaunt on principle..

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#22

05-13-2008, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by 12clicksMichele

I worked in the service industry for 9 years. Alot fo times credit card/debit cards will automatically add a 15 to 18% charge to your final bill. They do this temporarily to insure that if you tipped on your card that you had enough in your account to cover it. When your credit/debit card is run in a resturant it is not put through at the time for what could end up being the full amount so the credit card companies compensate for that. At the end of either the shift or week (depends on a resturants or bars policy) the credit cards are "settled" which entails adding in any tips written on the cc slip or $0 if left blank. You could call the resturant and ask them when they "settle" their credit cards and that should give you an idea of when your account should be adjusted. Usually takes just a day. You could also make sure that if your wife tipped on top of the added gratuity that the 18% was on the bill amount not total amount.

sounds like what usually happens..

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Tom_PM

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#23

05-13-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by 12clicksMichele

I partly agree with you. You shouldnt have to tip for less than stellar service in any industry where you tip (stylists, waitresses, nail techs ect). If you want to make money in the service industry you need to willing to make "above and beyond" your normal level.

The minimum wage for people in the resturant business is set by the same people that set the regular minimum wage, not the resturants which is currently $2.13 an hour in Jersey.

In all my time bartending and waitressing I made a good chunk of change not because people felt "obligated" to tip me but because I always did everything I did to make sure they had a great time.

Sounds perfectly reasonable and fair to me.

Except the premise that a restaurant must pay what they're told the minimum is. Thats a choice they make to pay as little as required. I'm just suggesting that a better-than $2.13/hr pay would make for a better quality wait staff, which would bring more and better people.. and whats more, the tip's would be just as good or better and... more genuine too!

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#24

05-13-2008, 10:45 AM

I'm pretty sure they just authed bill +20%, that's how it works at 99% of restaurants....

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#25

05-13-2008, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

Sounds perfectly reasonable and fair to me.

Except the premise that a restaurant must pay what they're told the minimum is. Thats a choice they make to pay as little as required. I'm just suggesting that a better-than $2.13/hr pay would make for a better quality wait staff, which would bring more and better people.. and whats more, the tip's would be just as good or better and... more genuine too!

I think the reasoning is that if you pay them less they will give that much better service in order to earn more because they dont have that hourly wage to fall back on. At one point I was earning over 45K a year working 3 days a week.

Think about it, if more peoples week to week paycheck depended on them consistently giving good service you would probably end up dealing with a lot less bitchy sales and customer service people. And imagine the fast food industry!!!!!! LOL

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#26

05-13-2008, 10:50 AM

Woww you learn something new every day. I never knew they would charge more to cover the tip and then a few days later settle for the right amount. Now i should pay more attention to my statement

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#27

05-13-2008, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by media

I'd be pissed, call your cc company and contest it, they will remove the WHOLE charge sometimes.. good way to stick it back to the resturaunt on principle..

Again not the resturant that does this its the credit card companies If it bothers you call the credit card company and request that they dont automatically charge your account just in case you decide to tip on your card

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#28

05-13-2008, 10:57 AM

yes, make some move. Just for clarification...

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#29

05-13-2008, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

If I ever bought a restaurant, the first thing I would do is make it a profit share, and second thing I'd do is set a pay rate above anything any other restaurant offers. =success.

good luck finding serious food servers interested in that.

people take those jobs usually temporary because there is more to life than taking orders.
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#30

05-13-2008, 01:33 PM

This is another reason why it's always better to use a regular credit card at resturants, gas stations, on-line, etc.

Authorizations are often for more than the actual purchase amount ... for credit card users, this is typically not a problem, but for folks using debit cards, such authorizations can often lead to surprises like the card being overlimit, overdraft charges, etc.

In regards to wages ... as most know, the minimum wage has increased somewhat over the years, but what most don't know is that the minimum wage food servers get in many states has not!

So for example in PA, the mimimum wage is around $7 (don't know the exact number) and yet food servers are exempt and still only get about $2.35 per hpur... crazy!

It's no wonder that more and more places are automatically adding the tip on to all checks regardless of the party size.

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#31

05-13-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

I understand that when you walk into a gas station they authorize you for a decent amount because they don't know exactly how much you'll be spending, and sometimes that charge can linger for a day or two. But this was pretty much a straight transaction, not an open tab type of situation. They brought us a bill after dinner, my wife handed over the debit card, and they brought us the sales receipt and my wife signed off for $86.

The more I think about this the more pissed I'm getting. If your staff is into the habit of charging my credit card for more than I agreed to pay.... Isn't that illegal?

There is usually a tip line and total line on the receipt...This is why I ALWAYS fill in the 'total' line before I sign a slip.....I don't care if it's only $10....I fill in $10 on the total line AND THEN sign.

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#32

05-13-2008, 03:08 PM

If you pay by cc instead of a debit card, it all gets worked out by the time you get the statement. Its a pain, a few yrs ago similar thing happened to me at Ruth's Chris, when I used my Epass, took over a week to straighten it out I hate arbitrary tipping, dont mind tipping for good service, but dont want to support shabby employees who dont give a shit.

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#33

05-13-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by 12clicksMichele

I think the reasoning is that if you pay them less they will give that much better service in order to earn more because they dont have that hourly wage to fall back on. At one point I was earning over 45K a year working 3 days a week.

Think about it, if more peoples week to week paycheck depended on them consistently giving good service you would probably end up dealing with a lot less bitchy sales and customer service people. And imagine the fast food industry!!!!!! LOL

That reasoning might have been fine except for these places putting "automatic" tips on things. Why in the world would I automatically agree to tip someone just because they are waiting on more than 7 people at a table? They may wait on 100 people per night, who gives a dang if they were all at 1 table or at 50 different tables throughout the evening? Isn't it harder to wait 50 tables than 1?? Why not automatically require a "service fee" (for petes sake at least dont insult everyone calling it an "automatic tip") UNLESS you have at least 8 people in the party?

Most entry jobs fall into the theme "work just hard enough not to get fired for pay thats just high enough so they dont quit". But those get a guaranteed federal minimum wage and aren't service related and tipping is usually not a factor or forbidden anyway.

IMHO the magic "tip" fee is nothing more than a supplement to the wait staffs income that the restaurant is too cheap to pay! And I am unanimous in that.

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#34

05-13-2008, 05:12 PM

I would be pissed! That sucks that happened

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#35

05-13-2008, 05:29 PM

Did you call them and ask why this happened ? I bet it work better than coming on gfy. lol
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#36

05-13-2008, 05:31 PM

Don't use a debit card anywhere other than at an ATM..
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#37

05-14-2008, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

That reasoning might have been fine except for these places putting "automatic" tips on things. Why in the world would I automatically agree to tip someone just because they are waiting on more than 7 people at a table? They may wait on 100 people per night, who gives a dang if they were all at 1 table or at 50 different tables throughout the evening? Isn't it harder to wait 50 tables than 1?? Why not automatically require a "service fee" (for petes sake at least dont insult everyone calling it an "automatic tip") UNLESS you have at least 8 people in the party?

I agree

I was lucky enough to work somewhere that when their were big parties I had the choice of adding the automatic percentage or not. I almost always chose not too. Most times in that situation I got tipped more than I would have if it had been added on.

And to anyone that thinks waitressing or bartending is just a bs job let me say you have to be able to deal with many different personalities in many different situations. You have to be smart, in control of yourself, and aware of whats going on in 10 different places at once. Its not an easy job and it enabled me to take care of my kids and spend alot of time wth them because I only worked 3 or 4 nights a week at the most. Plus its fun. You hang out and break balls, have a good time and make money.

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#38

05-14-2008, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Ron Bennett

So for example in PA, the mimimum wage is around $7 (don't know the exact number) and yet food servers are exempt and still only get about $2.35 per hpur... crazy!

Madness. I thought being paid $AUD6 an hour (between $USD2.88 - USD6.19 depending on which year you convert it) for clearing off tables was a bit low. This was in 1992
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#39

05-14-2008, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by rowan

Madness. I thought being paid $AUD6 an hour (between $USD2.88 - USD6.19 depending on which year you convert it) for clearing off tables was a bit low. This was in 1992

As of right now in Jersey the minimum wage for bartenders and servers is $2.13 an hour. It has been the same for at least9 years that I know of.

The regular minimum wage is $7.15.

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#40

05-14-2008, 06:12 AM

Some places include the 15% gratuity on parties of 8 or more . Read the fine print on the menu before you pay the tip

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#41

05-14-2008, 07:30 AM

I totally agree that waitresses and waiters and even busboys etc. are critical in a busy restaurant. Thats why they deserve more money from their employer. Without them, there is no business.

Never forget this employee of mine when the whole crew invited me out.. he was such an ass to the waitress, plus hitting on her, demanding shit.. I almost fired him, lol.. no kidding.

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#42

05-14-2008, 07:50 AM

Yeah absofuckinlutely you should go back and talk to the manager. The waiter did a very unethical thing. It's obvious you guys intended to tip 20% and when your wife wrote that in, the waiter should have come back to the table to point out that the tip was already added and show the totals. Yeah, you should have scrutinized the bill a bit closer, but any server worth their weight could figure that your group was probably good tippers but not that over the top.

Restaurant managers are usually prepared to take a hit. You should go back and demand a complimentary dinner for your family.

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#43

05-14-2008, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

That reasoning might have been fine except for these places putting "automatic" tips on things. Why in the world would I automatically agree to tip someone just because they are waiting on more than 7 people at a table? They may wait on 100 people per night, who gives a dang if they were all at 1 table or at 50 different tables throughout the evening? Isn't it harder to wait 50 tables than 1?? Why not automatically require a "service fee" (for petes sake at least dont insult everyone calling it an "automatic tip") UNLESS you have at least 8 people in the party?

Most entry jobs fall into the theme "work just hard enough not to get fired for pay thats just high enough so they dont quit". But those get a guaranteed federal minimum wage and aren't service related and tipping is usually not a factor or forbidden anyway.

IMHO the magic "tip" fee is nothing more than a supplement to the wait staffs income that the restaurant is too cheap to pay! And I am unanimous in that.

Dude. Think of it this way, you have a table of 8 or 10 or whatever, that is a lot of work that the server has to put in at that table for orders, drinks, etc. If they have one table of ten and a few others with 2-4 the 2-4s are going to get less attention because large parties always need stuff and at random times where as the 2-4s always need drinks or whatever at the same time for the most part. Besides, a lot of times at the bigger parties everyone always assumes that the other person is going to leave the tip especially if they split the bill. So the automatic tip is there to protect the server in the event this happens since they have to tip out on their total sales. So if a group has a bill of lets say $1000 and they leave no tip, they would be on the hook for a 1-3% of that which would eat into either their poor hourly wage or their other tips.

I can't believe that this is even a bone of contention. If you want to be a dick and not tip ever then don't. I always tip on good service and don't on bad service.

It is obvious that you don't understand what you are talking about anyways. Even "nice" establishments don't pay their wait staff very well as far as hourly wages. Everyone in the service industry works hard for their tips which is where they make the money. This is not working at the local Foot Locker for minimum wage. Further, the managers as well as the kitchen and bus boys all make a cut of that tip.

I think you should put your money where your mouth is and open a place up and see how long you last paying 4 or 5 servers $300 a night. How does that sound?

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tony286

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#44

05-14-2008, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by LAJ

Yeah absofuckinlutely you should go back and talk to the manager. The waiter did a very unethical thing. It's obvious you guys intended to tip 20% and when your wife wrote that in, the waiter should have come back to the table to point out that the tip was already added and show the totals. Yeah, you should have scrutinized the bill a bit closer, but any server worth their weight could figure that your group was probably good tippers but not that over the top.

Restaurant managers are usually prepared to take a hit. You should go back and demand a complimentary dinner for your family.

if you start nice like there must of been of a mistake.They will fall all over themselves to fix it. I always start nice first, I find 95 percent of the time I dont have to throw it into pissed.
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carol.prime

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#45

05-14-2008, 08:49 AM

Definitely!! Go make your move and ask for further details, this will help you answer the things you have in mind. Sometimes, more fastfood and restaurant do this thing just for their own sake and never really bothers to explain anything about it.

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Tom_PM

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#46

05-14-2008, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

Dude. Think of it this way, you have a table of 8 or 10 or whatever, that is a lot of work that the server has to put in at that table for orders, drinks, etc. If they have one table of ten and a few others with 2-4 the 2-4s are going to get less attention because large parties always need stuff and at random times where as the 2-4s always need drinks or whatever at the same time for the most part. Besides, a lot of times at the bigger parties everyone always assumes that the other person is going to leave the tip especially if they split the bill. So the automatic tip is there to protect the server in the event this happens since they have to tip out on their total sales. So if a group has a bill of lets say $1000 and they leave no tip, they would be on the hook for a 1-3% of that which would eat into either their poor hourly wage or their other tips.

I can't believe that this is even a bone of contention. If you want to be a dick and not tip ever then don't. I always tip on good service and don't on bad service.

It is obvious that you don't understand what you are talking about anyways. Even "nice" establishments don't pay their wait staff very well as far as hourly wages. Everyone in the service industry works hard for their tips which is where they make the money. This is not working at the local Foot Locker for minimum wage. Further, the managers as well as the kitchen and bus boys all make a cut of that tip.

I think you should put your money where your mouth is and open a place up and see how long you last paying 4 or 5 servers $300 a night. How does that sound?

I dunno man, I think I made very valid points and would stand by them. There is no good excuse for not paying people what their worth, AND letting customers give them tips. How could it be a bad thing to pay them minimum wage? Thats what, $286 for 5 servers working 8 hours. If a restarant can't recoup that in a day, it's crap anyway. They profit that much from a ceaser salad, lmao

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Brad

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#47

05-14-2008, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by PR_Tom

I dunno man, I think I made very valid points and would stand by them. There is no good excuse for not paying people what their worth, AND letting customers give them tips. How could it be a bad thing to pay them minimum wage? Thats what, $286 for 5 servers working 8 hours. If a restarant can't recoup that in a day, it's crap anyway. They profit that much from a ceaser salad, lmao

Indeed. But you said in a previous post that you would pay them what they are worth. Here the discrepancy between regular minimum wage and server minimum wage is very small. Point is that tips are what make the industry go around and survive. Without decent tips good servers go and find a new gig that does have good customers, it's really that simple. I guarantee you that you are never going to attract a seasoned server that can provide a good dining experience based on their hourly wage. First thing any server does when they get a job at a place is ask the full time servers what they can make in tips if they haven't already found out before they applied for the job.

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V_RocKs

Damn Right I Kiss Ass!

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#48

05-16-2008, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

I understand that when you walk into a gas station they authorize you for a decent amount because they don't know exactly how much you'll be spending, and sometimes that charge can linger for a day or two. But this was pretty much a straight transaction, not an open tab type of situation. They brought us a bill after dinner, my wife handed over the debit card, and they brought us the sales receipt and my wife signed off for $86.

The more I think about this the more pissed I'm getting. If your staff is into the habit of charging my credit card for more than I agreed to pay.... Isn't that illegal?

You only need to pay the amount you signed for legally. I would dispute the entire charge and teach the restaurant a lesson. Most likely it is a rogue employee. When I used to drive an airport shuttle we had a guy that did this. Added $10 to what ever you tipped him. He lasted about 4 days.
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bobby666

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#49

05-16-2008, 01:31 PM

buy a gun and visit the boss
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