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I would describe it as something that lowers the actual $/click the sponsor is bidding for my traffic.
For example:
SponsorA gets 100 clicks from me and brings in 3 sales. He could pay me 90PPS for the 3 sales or he could shave 1 sale and pay me 60PPS instead.
If he pays me 90 he is paying me .90 per click. If he pays me 60 he is paying me .60 per click. If he wants to have leaks that lower his bid or check processing fees that lower his bid per click to me... that's all his problem. If he pays me too little he loses my traffic to someone else who pays me more.
Here is the mind-blowing part. You are getting EXACTLY the same deal explained above... you just pretend you are not, and sponsors pretend you are not. In reality you get exactly what someone actually pays you and you send exactly the number of clicks you know you sent. All the rest is nonsense.
Send clicks, calculate actual $/click, decide where to send your clicks again next time. It's MATH. Up to, could, should, would, I wish, it would be nice if, etc... are all nonsense terms in the affiliate business.
Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 04:49 AM.Comment
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if sponsor steals but still make you good money, it is nice that it is making you good money, but it is still sponsor that steals from you! sponsor that steals, steals, once again, steals from you! do you get it? doesnt matter it have great ppc and so, but, it is still sponsor that steals from you! steals! steal, thievery, you undertand it finaly? the program steals sales from you. steals! steals sales, steals money. it steals money from you! it steals sales, so it steals money from you. do you understand finaly? sponsor that steals from you is sponsor that steals from you! then you are coworking with someone who is thief ... and as you can see me and other people are not happy with that ... i dont say other sponsors dont steals from me, but i never had reason to check, like i had reason to check ruc ... howghComment
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Lucas,
Write this on your wall to remember:
NOBODY CAN "steal" WHAT THEY ACTUALLY PAY YOU.
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Relentless, not "trying" to be a dick but sometimes I am one without even trying ... However, is your stance that a sponsor deliberately and consciously shaving sales from an affiliate is simply "lowering the actual $/click"? You don't class this as theft?
If I sign up for a sponsor promising me $30/sale then that is what I expect. If that sponsor tells me it will cost $1 per sale to process it, then I know before hand that the actual net worth of each sale is $49. Similarly, if a sponsor tells me that for every 5 sales, he will deduct a sale then I can choose to accept this since it has been disclosed.
Simply stating as fact that what they pay me is what I actually earned isn't entirely on the up and up. I earned $87 from 3 sales, I got paid $58 because I was robbed.
Would you think differently if a billing company charged 100 members for memberships to your site but only paid you for 90 of them (their charges not included). But you stick with said billing company simply because they provide you the best throughput?
Why should it just be affiliates that adhere to a TOS? Why can't sponsors be held to account for wrongdoing? I mean what's a few fraudulent joins when the affiliate is sending you some real ones too?Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.Comment
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I am stating that when I sign up to an affiliate program I do not even read the payout promises. They are 100% meaningless. It is a never-ending and VERY subjective game of would, could should.
Is charging $2 to send a check shaving? don't care...
Is requiring a $100 min payout shaving? don't care...
Is a leaky tour shaving? don't care...
Did they pay me for every sale? don't care...
Other nonsense I can not know because I dont have access to their stats? dont care...
What I DO care about:
1 - Is this business all legally done? If It isn't I won't send a single click.
2 - How many clicks did I actually send them? I know that number exactly every time.
3 - How much money did they actually pay me? I know that number exactly every time.
4 - Do the payments always come on time? Late once maybe, late twice bye bye.
5 - Is anything being done that negatively affects my bookmarkers? That affects long term revenue.
While you chase your tail hoping to catch someone in whatever drama nonsense that may, should, would, could, might cause you to "feel" a certain way. I look at MATH and KNOW for a fact exactly who ACTUALLY paid me the most for my work legally.
Yes. Exactly.Would you think differently if a billing company charged 100 members for memberships to your site but only paid you for 90 of them (their charges not included). But you stick with said billing company simply because they provide you the best throughput?
I send 100 sales through processor A and get exactly 92.00 in my bank
I send 100 sales through processor B and get exactly 83.00 in my bank
I dont give a fuck why I got 92 or 83. In this case I do know the exact number of sales and I know the exact amount of money. Why one paid me less is their problem, not mine. What does complicate this scenario a bit more is that as an affiliate I only care if things negatively affect my bookmarkers, are legal and how much I am paid. As a program owner I now have to also track many other factors to arrive at the total value per sale.
All of the principles are EXACTLY the same. You did X work and got paid Y value. That is your actual $/work. The rest is nonsense.
Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 05:40 AM.Comment
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Here's where my head went after the first post.
"It's not offered to affiliates yet? OK, now lets talk about how I'm going to promote it while you prepare me a custom link."
Something along those lines.43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.
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My argument is 100% leakfree... you just don't want to see... for the reasons you have...
It's simple... you settle with what you get... you accept being fucked even if you can point your finger on it... When you accept like you do... yes... then you're right then it automatically includes everything...Half troll half amazing!Comment
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Really?
Affiliates don't run the paysites they promote... If site owner wants links on it he must decide and affiliate most decide if or not to promote... very simple
A good paysite with quality content still converts even with a 1000 links (leaks) on it...
Visitors know what they want... they are not stupid... but affiliates can decide to promote or not.
But.... having a few subscription offers on the subscription page and half of those subscriptions are being tracked within the program and half of it not... that's not a little fucking leak that's just not done. That's not a link to clips4sale that's fucking treating people like idiots. That's not targeting traffic that's like gambling in a fucking casino...
You can put a 1000 links on your site... i don't give a fuck, but don't fuck around on the fucking goddamn join-forms....Half troll half amazing!Comment
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You send traffic to a site which has half of the subscription-offers being tracked and the other half not... Now explain me where your $/clicks were not getting ass-raped...
Your theory is about accepting being fucked out in the open as long as your check is fine... Well... good for you!Half troll half amazing!Comment
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I'm unsure if you are pretending to not understand math or if you actually do not understand math....
SponsorA pays me $80 for 100 clicks. I put that real money in my bank.
SponsorB pays me $40 for 100 clicks. I put that real money in my bank
SponsorB claims to pay me up to X and be a great guy.
SponsorB gives me 20 excuses why his $40 is worth more than $80 from SponsorA.
My bank tells me $80 is STILL actually worth more than $40.
Therefore SponsorA paid me the most and is the winner of this auction.
It's MATH.Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 06:54 AM.Comment
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100% correct, and if those sites with all the leaks in the world still pay you 1 cent more per click than it's nearest rival, where are you going to choose to send your traffic?
That's what relentless is saying (though I obviously don't speak for him, and he may want to clarify), and he is spot on.Comment
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i am sorry for all the people who will send traffic better to known thief who pays more than a good guy who cant afford to pay that much because he dont scam that much ... oh guys ...Comment
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I completely understand your $/clicks theory...
You don't have to repeat it... Now focus on trying to understand mine
Why can't a webmaster point out a leak at sponsor B and trying to get $30 with 3 sales? Instead of $20 with 2 sales... Then it would be 30/100 = $/clicks instead of 20/100 = $/clicks...
That's math too...Half troll half amazing!Comment
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Lucas... we aren't talking about scamming consumers or doing anything that harms bookmarkers. If they scammed customers that hurts long term revenue for everyone and I am 100% against it. A 'leaky tour' is not scamming customers in any way. High check payout fees aren't scamming customers. A high minimum payout threshold is not scamming consumers.
We are talking about programs who pay more without scamming customers. I can tell you for a fact that the RUC sites treat customers very well and their content is among the most popular anywhere online with consumers. If they can pay you the most while doing that... good.
Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 07:12 AM.Comment
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"As pornographers we must act responsibly! ;))"- Nickatilynx
I might be Old and Tired, but at least I don't support a whiney cuntComment
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If you actually understood $/click you wouldn't focus on 'yours' either.
When someone pays $80 for 100 clicks, whether they pay 80 before or after a leak doesn't change how much they paid or how much traffic you sent. If they pay 80 before or after 'being a great guy' that doesn't change the amount either. Not even 1 tiny bit.
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This industry is it's own worst enemy!
Sure they do shady shit, but they make me the most money
Sure they fuck over other affiliates, but they haven't fucked me over and make me money!
and so on.......Last edited by beerptrol; 06-24-2014, 07:16 AM.“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.”
-- Ulysses S. GrantComment
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If they pay you the most for your work, they didn't do anything shady to you. If they provide exactly what their tour promises customers at exactly the price they clearly state on their tour they didn't do anything shady to the consumer. Your attempt to "feel" good about "up to" an amount instead of focusing on what people actually pay you for the clicks you actually send is your own choice.
Nobody in this thread believes the sites in question are harming consumers. Nobody here is saying they pay less per click than an alternative. So your comment is all about how you "feel" - and that has zero actual value in a discussion that is really about MATH.
2+2 = 4... no matter how you "feel" about it
Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 07:21 AM.Comment
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We are not talking about a leaky tour....
We are talking about subscription-offers being kept out of the tracking... without any good argument for it.... like if the traffic of webmasters was not meant to be for those non-tracked options...
Webmaster sends traffic... traffic ends on subscription page... then it's like gambling in casino... which subscription type will visitor join... the tracked ones or the other ones...
In best case it's 50/50 chance... so... you talk about best $/clicks and "could haves" that are imaginary... but a leak like that is so rude and obvious that talking about "imaginary could haves" is an insult to every well thinking person.Half troll half amazing!Comment
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ehh, tried to write something, but my english is not good to explain everything i want, so fuck it, waste of timeLucas... we aren't talking about scamming consumers or doing anything that harms bookmarkers. If they scammed customers that hurts long term revenue for everyone and I am 100% against it. A 'leaky tour' is not scamming customers in any way. High check payout fees aren't scamming customers. A high minimum payout threshold is not scamming consumers.
We are talking about people who pay more without scamming customers.
i am out of here, but doesnt mean i agree, i dont have luck with your legit business everyone
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Are we talking about sites that treat bookmarkers fairly? Yes.
Are we talking about sites that are legal? Yes.
Are we talking about sites that pay out on time? Yes.
That leaves ONLY one question:
Do these sites pay you more per click than any other you could send the same traffic.
/EndComment
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Contact me any time you want high quality text written for your sites Lucas
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No.
3+3 = 6
Always.
If you are paid 4, you aren't paid 6.
You are paid 4. 4 is the amount you are paid.
If you are paid 2+2... you are not paid 3+3.
You know exactly how much you were paid.
You can "feel" about it whatever you want.
It does not in any way change how much you were actually paid.
Actual $ / Actual Clicks = Actual Value
It's MATH.Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 07:31 AM.Comment
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We are not talking about a leaky tour....
We are talking about subscription-offers being kept out of the tracking... without any good argument for it.... like if the traffic of webmasters was not meant to be for those non-tracked options...
Webmaster sends traffic... traffic ends on subscription page... then it's like gambling in casino... which subscription type will visitor join... the tracked ones or the other ones...
In best case it's 50/50 chance... so... you talk about best $/clicks and "could haves" that are imaginary... but a leak like that is so rude and obvious that talking about "imaginary could haves" is an insult to every well thinking person.Half troll half amazing!Comment
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Relentless, your argument is never going to be valid no matter how many times you repeat it.
The primary concern in doing business with an affiliate program that is shaving/leaking is the threat of future "adjustments" and an inability to process traffic data due to unknown variables (the shaving/leaking).
One thing you've never explained in your shaving-doesn't-matter campaigning is how you drill down to figure out what the problem is for a low EPC affiliate program. How exactly do you determine if the problem is the tour, your own promo efforts or shaving/leaking?Comment
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My argument is valid as long as simple math continues to work.
I'll bet on Math over how you "feel about things" every time.
I know what my clicks are worth (from SponsorB). If SponorA isn't sending me more $/click, I'd go to SponsorB or SponsorC. Nobody is telling you to go to any specific sponsor. The professionals in this thread are telling you to send traffic to the sponsor that pays you the most per click.... or if you think you can do it better, to build a site of your own that earns you more per click than any available sponsor.One thing you've never explained in your shaving-doesn't-matter campaigning is how you drill down to figure out what the problem is for a low EPC affiliate program. How exactly do you determine if the problem is the tour, your own promo efforts or shaving/leaking?
Why would anyone waste time trying to figure out WHY SponsorB has such a low EPC... why is their problem not my problem. Whether the 'problem' is the tour, shaving, leaking, a fad, over-saturation, high scrubbing, weak content updates or anything else... that doesn't change the fact that their $/click is LOW.
Similarly, if their $/click is very high, I might want to make sure they aren't doing anything illegal or anything that hurts my bookmarkers (high $/click actually needs more evaluation than low $/click for that reason). Other than that, as an affiliate I don't care why or how... and neither should you.
On the other hand, if I am seriously considering building a site to compete in a market, then all the why and how matters a lot. If you are a paysite owner your job gets 10000x more complicated. If you are sending traffic as an affiliate the analysis is as simple as $/click. The hard part of being an affiliate is generating traffic...
By the way Matt26v, what sites do you own? Name one? Just one?Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 09:36 AM.Comment
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WARNING: Stay Away From Marlboroack aka aka Brandon Ackerman
http://gfy.com/21169705-post8.html
Donny Long is Felon, Stalker, Scammer & Coward
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...lon-int-761244
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Relentless, you know damned well as the owner of review sites that not all business models support this strategy.I am stating that when I sign up to an affiliate program I do not even read the payout promises. They are 100% meaningless. It is a never-ending and VERY subjective game of would, could should.
Is charging $2 to send a check shaving? don't care...
Is requiring a $100 min payout shaving? don't care...
Is a leaky tour shaving? don't care...
Did they pay me for every sale? don't care...
Other nonsense I can not know because I dont have access to their stats? dont care...
What I DO care about:
1 - Is this business all legally done? If It isn't I won't send a single click.
2 - How many clicks did I actually send them? I know that number exactly every time.
3 - How much money did they actually pay me? I know that number exactly every time.
4 - Do the payments always come on time? Late once maybe, late twice bye bye.
5 - Is anything being done that negatively affects my bookmarkers? That affects long term revenue.
While you chase your tail hoping to catch someone in whatever drama nonsense that may, should, would, could, might cause you to "feel" a certain way. I look at MATH and KNOW for a fact exactly who ACTUALLY paid me the most for my work legally.
Yes. Exactly.
I send 100 sales through processor A and get exactly 92.00 in my bank
I send 100 sales through processor B and get exactly 83.00 in my bank
I dont give a fuck why I got 92 or 83. In this case I do know the exact number of sales and I know the exact amount of money. Why one paid me less is their problem, not mine. What does complicate this scenario a bit more is that as an affiliate I only care if things negatively affect my bookmarkers, are legal and how much I am paid. As a program owner I now have to also track many other factors to arrive at the total value per sale.
All of the principles are EXACTLY the same. You did X work and got paid Y value. That is your actual $/work. The rest is nonsense.
And why argue for it? In the end, maybe processor B has better sites that convert better and retain members for longer, but they have this little trick where you lose a bunch of your potential sales through... y'know... blatant stealing... So A paid you more in the short term, but you wrote off B too early and due to their stealing you can't use B's sites to make as much money as you could.
Also you have to throw away all the work you did for B just to do this test, it's all lost time and potential revenue.
Wouldn't it be better if B just didn't steal, and you could make money from both programs and diversify where you send your traffic to?Comment
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Socks,
When you work with a program on a review site you add a few reviews. You see how they do (and how they treat your bookmarkers). You get great feedback from the consumer side from those bookmarkers too.
1 - Let's say SponsorA got 3 sites on your review site and you sent them 10,000 uniques. You look at your stats and see that their sites are badly under-performing compared to other sponsors with sites in the same niches. Now they ask you to review their two new sites. How fast do you hurry to add 2 more sites from that under-performing sponsor?
2 - Conversely, you add 3 sites from a sponsor that blows the doors off your average $/click for a specific niche... your bookmarkers tell you how awesome their sites are and thank you for recommending them. Now they ask to add 2 more sites to your reviews... how fast do you hurry to add those sites?
As a review site owner your investment of resources isn't a blind move. You can base it on past performance, trusted information from your bookmarkers, other useful review site owners, etc... If you are just randomly allocating resources... that would be an error.
3 - Now the big question for you....
You review a few sites from a program. Your bookmarkers are happy with it. Your $/click is much better than the average for that niche. The sites are completely legal and arent scamming your customers. You notice they have a leak on their tour. What do you do? Do you send your traffic to a lower paying sponsor instead and yank down their reviews even though your bookmarkers love them and they are top sellers on your site earning you a high $/click? Nope. You add more of their sites because your customers are happy with them and their $/click is higher than the alternatives available.
$/click matters. Whatever excuses or promises someone makes about $/click don't mean anything. You know how many clicks you sent, how many dollars you earned, how your bookmarkers were treated and whether or not you should continue sending more traffic. It works the same for my review sites, tubes, blog network and any other site based on the affiliate business model.
You know that as well as I do.
P.S. - Wouldn't it be better if everyone paid $10,000 per click?
They don't... so why waste time on it.Last edited by Relentless; 06-24-2014, 11:13 AM.Comment
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