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It's business and not about you liking me, or not. This is crap business management.
It's not only about the % on the rev share, it's also about the conversion and retention stats. So let's look at it from a business POV, this is an example.
Freeones is promoting a site converting it's traffic at 1-200 and retains for 2 months. Freeones earns $36 at 60%. Asks for 70% and gets told no. So drops the site down the promotion ladder and replaces it with a site converting 1-220 and retains 7 weeks. Earns $33.25 at 70% A site doing 1-300 and retain 6 weeks and it could be a big mistake in moving them down the list in vavor of someone giving the extra 10%.
Yes my figures are to illustrate the point and are an example. But you can see why it's not as easy as just holding your hand out and demanding an extra 10%.
Yes I like you agree that people who are productive should be rewarded, we already tier our affiliates payments. But we also see it's a bit more than just the % rev share that determines what they earn. It's also about conversion and retention. Maybe you will tell other people they can or cannot have the extra money. Unwise move to broadcast it on a board though.
We have our payments set, nothing and no one changes them, unless they change for everyone.
You are also entitled to your opinions and I will remain a thorn in some peoples sides.
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There's a saying that goes something like this "When a butterfly flaps it's wings in Indonesia, it becomes a storm in Japan." OK I said something like that.
That's what could happen here.
Sponsors who give in to this will have to face other affiliates sticking their hands out.
Even sponsors who don't give in and remain at the top will have problems.
So Freeones has to drop the non complying sponsors down the list.
Doing that they might drop sponsors converting at 1-500 and replace them with ones doing 1-1000.
All for the sake of an extra 10%.
Do you get the principal?Comment
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The word is principle, and why are you worried? How does this effect you?There's a saying that goes something like this "When a butterfly flaps it's wings in Indonesia, it becomes a storm in Japan." OK I said something like that.
That's what could happen here.
Sponsors who give in to this will have to face other affiliates sticking their hands out.
Even sponsors who don't give in and remain at the top will have problems.
So Freeones has to drop the non complying sponsors down the list.
Doing that they might drop sponsors converting at 1-500 and replace them with ones doing 1-1000.
All for the sake of an extra 10%.
Do you get the principal?
For some reason I doubt they are requesting anything from you.Comment
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i wonder if the conversion rates were the same for 7 years ago ?
i bet they are lower
I wonder if the conversion rates will drop if USA are in recession without credit cards...
i bet they wil drop slightly
Anyway freeones can try: more money better promotion...Comment
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On an unrelated note, baddog has the single funniest signature quote in history. I laugh every time I read it.
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Paul your numbers you posted seem correct but your logic is off. Based on your math - it would mean you would have to calculate in the average income of every webmaster and divide each across your expenses.
Most programs pay 50%, the ones that pay 60/65 can easily pay 70/75 and still make a great profit from any Webmaster. Even if I only earn $30 - it's still a profit.
The key is volume, it's the key to pps programs, it's the key to any Program not losing with Webmasters that request this. If FreeOnes ask this of you - you should force them to increase sales. With Volume - you could pay them 90% and if they increased sales volume you would start to make an increased net profit.
Either way though, even if they don't increase sales to you, paying them an increase % will not hurt a programs bottom line if it retains that affiliate vs not having those sales at all.
I think what they are doing is stupid, they should have kept it private and just made the requests in a professional manner. It would be the only way I would give up the % without laughing the people out of my program.
~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
It's all disambiguation
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Interesting development here. I understand that Freeones can demand this because they provide quality traffic which is very key in getting sales. However I am kinda leaning to the camp of people that say hey, we are all suffering here...not just you! Plus I find it highly unlikely when the dollar regains its strength they will be giving the extra percentage back.Comment
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Why should people in other countries have to suffer for your mistakes (electing the worst pres ever) ?That's not the point, the dollar being down affects everyone.
You're saying "we want more money so you need to take a pay cut on top of the cut you're already getting from the low dollar".
I don't care, I'll happily give you the 70% cause your traffic is worth it but be straight and ask for more money instead of pretending like you're suffering more then anyone else while in reality you got next to no excuses and are on the up and up unlike anyone else could ever dream about.
Last edited by Doctor Dre; 04-24-2008, 08:10 AM.Originally posted by rayadp05Comment
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The missing element is non-shared revenues. If membership revenue is your only revenue stream, you're doing something wrong.So explain why and where I'm wrong. It's easy to make a clueless statement like yours but explaining why it tougher.
70% to Freeones
5% for marketing and tools
10-15% to billing
10% for hosting.
10% for content and site.
Plus offices, staff, equipment, overheads.
If Freeones traffic is so good and profitable they should already be on a level that's above 60%. But that's the stupidity of this whole situation. The programs converting at 1-200/500 might just say
and leave Quashe with more sites converting at 1-500/1000. That will soon screw the extra 10%.
Or a few more affiliates who see who Freeones are promoting might do the same, ask for an extra 10%. Where does all this extra money come from?
Yes the members. Go figure their reaction.I died.Comment
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Who cares what it's about, if they can get it, why not ask for it ?So maybe those giving the customer a good product will give them less of a good product to cover keeping Freeones profitable.
Or maybe the good ones will say no and more of Freeones traffic will think it's time to move on Freeones.
Or maybe other affiliates will get shafted to pay Freeones the extra 10%
What ever happens that extra 10% has to come from the client, other affiliates or the product. Way to go Quashe
No one is asking if Freeones traffic is so good why their increased traffic, customer trust and rebilling is not covering the fall in the dollar. Maybe the real reason for them needing to get 70% is not only the fall of the dollar.Originally posted by rayadp05Comment
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edit, dumb shitOriginally posted by rayadp05Comment
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Okay here we go :
So if I'm counting right, with your business plan established, you're already at 40 % cost operating WITHOUT your offices, staff, equipement, overhead...
The standard industry payout is 60 %... sounds like you're counting on theses magic join links you fucking genious !
Any program freeones is sending a huge ammount of sales already will comply...
Shut up about it beeing a stupid move, they know better : they send more signups in a day then you will get in your lifetime.Originally posted by rayadp05Comment
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It's rather funny to read the comments from people who barely can send one sign up per day. Why flame someone who's taking care of their business so they keep making money?
Everyone is welcome to email their sponsors and ask for a bump in % or PPS. If you don't do it you're the loser. I've emailed plenty of programs and asked for a bump and gotten it, and that was even before I got worldsex.com written on my back.
I do however understand the programs who do not like it and it's their choice to say NO THANKS and move on to the next affiliate. But if people are making money with a program who says no to bumping % or PPS they will probably stay with them anyway.
I fully understand Freeones and I've asked for bumps for years... and gotten it.Last edited by DaLord; 04-24-2008, 08:46 AM.Comment
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What really bothers me is that when the Canadian dollar was low and the American was high the American's demanded that I pay the extra difference to match the american dollar.
And I end up paying more for everything.
but now that the American dollar is low and the Canadian is high the American's demand that i TAKE A CUT!
before i'd get paid $300 american and it'd come to about $325 or more cad.
Now I say I want $300 they demand USD and I get $2??
when I say hey I'm losing money. I need you to pay me in Canadian or I gotta raise my price.
They say.. Tough luck..
That's fucked up.
The low american dollar is fucking Canadian manufacturing/production.Last edited by payd2purv; 04-24-2008, 08:50 AM.
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That's because the world economy is based off the US dollar. Like it or not until the last 2 years the US dollar has been the most stable currency in the world so it acted as the center anchoring place for the rest of the world's economies.
The dollar is down right now, but it will come back. It's quite simple if you don't like the dollar bill in Canadian or Euro's see how well that goes over for yea.In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.Comment
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Damn man, you really ARE clueless!!So instead of making yourself look stupid try to make me look stupid instead.
I got banned from Freeones for spamming his site without his link. It was a test to see how good his traffic was for us. When he asked in Berlin if we could resolve the situation I replied no need to bother. Seems I was right.
He needs the extra 10% to remain in profit.
I'm just a newbie.Comment
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Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com -
recent work - About meComment
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Quashe i give you 60 pps on http://www.juicyitis.com/ chicks,gays,priests, fuck every demographic signs up hit me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't see the problem... This is a perfect example of Incentive Profit (I wonder if the english translation is the same...) as I learned in school:
* Take the deal and accept to get 30% instead of 50% per product (accept the Freeones traffic and accept to earn less per transaction)
* Don't take the deal and don't make that 30% (don't accept the Freeones traffic and don't make the the extra incentive profit)
As long as they're leaving the companies a choice, what is the problem?
With the amount of sales that Freeones makes, I don't think this will affect other affiliates a lot.Maria - maria at photorama.nl - Photorama International
CONTENT LOADS of content in various niches - many photo/video combinations! CONTENTComment
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Quashe i give you 60 pps on http://www.juicyitis.com/ chicks,gays,priests, fuck every demographic signs up hit me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Juicy, I really hope this picture is on the front of one of your tours....
If so, im sure it yields... what.... 2:1Want to accept Bitcoin (BTC) on your site without any issues? I modestly estimate a 15%-20% boost in conversions.
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ok so what is the problem?
70% is steep but heh they have the traffic.
if you are not happy with it, stay away.
if your business plan allowes it, go for it.
in my case, I have a small operation, I cannot afford it, but if you can, again go for it.
so if you cannot afford it, do not whine.
if you can afford, go for it, simple huhComment
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I wouldn't call that professional. They are an Affiliate that pretty much demanded an increase. This isn't asking "If this is not a feasible request for you, we regret to inform you that we will not be able to promote your program at the same level as we have before." - It isn't asking if it's followed by a threat.
It would have been different if they dropped the sob story, and straight up ask for the exact increase they desired, then maybe offered something in return for being so generous to increase the payout. ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
It's all disambiguationComment
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Does any sponsor have the balls to attach a condition that if the exchange rate improves beyond a certain rate in the future that FreeOnes revert to their existing payout levels?Comment
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didnt read all the posts but isnt this something normal.. even as a gallery submitter I ask for a higher % and always get it.. I don't see them having a problem at all.Comment
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Well it seems with all those sign ups they send they need the extra 10% to stay in profit. Or were lying in the email and just greedy.
As for my figures they are always to illustrate the point. But that extra 10% has to be found, from existing costs being cut or profits. All to fund Freeones greed or keep them afloat.
My principal still holds and if Freeones were such a great traffic source they would not be in this position.
But if they drop a better performing program in favour of a poorer one there greed harms then and you. Yes it harms you and me. The surfers are not stupid, piss them off enough and you make Tubes look better.
It's the short term greed of people in this industry that has stopped us all growing. Short term greed like Freeones displays. Or are they going to be unprofitable if they don't get the extra 10%?Last edited by Paul Markham; 04-24-2008, 09:40 PM.Comment
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If you really believe what you just said then well....LOLWell it seems with all those sign ups they send they need the extra 10% to stay in profit. Or were lying in the email and just greedy.
As for my figures they are always to illustrate the point. But that extra 10% has to be found, from existing costs being cut or profits. All to fund Freeones greed or keep them afloat.
My principal still holds and if Freeones were such a great traffic source they would not be in this position.
But if they drop a better performing program in favour of a poorer one there greed harms then and you. Yes it harms you and me. The surfers are not stupid, piss them off enough and you make Tubes look better.
It's the short term greed of people in this industry that has stopped us all growing. Short term greed like Freeones displays. Or are they going to be unprofitable if they don't get the extra 10%?
It's funny how you always try to trash us, not that I really care though as its entertaining as hell. Thnx
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You're a simpleton. I can't really understand how you're still doing business.
No, that is NOT not greed, that's simply doing business. The point of doing business isn't only beeing profitable... it's turning the highest profits possible.
No compagny is going to go out of business by giving freeones a big share of their profits, they are simply going to make less money. Or they won't accept their offers and will lose them as affiliates.
They ask for 10 % more simply because they CAN.
It's offer and demand. The affiliates are currently in power because of the high offers by affiliate programs, like it or not... there are simply too many of them offering the same crap.Last edited by Doctor Dre; 04-24-2008, 09:59 PM.Originally posted by rayadp05Comment
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It was totally unprofessional. Sending out what is little more than spam to a group of sponsors demanding they pay an extra 10% or will lose their position is unprofessional. Are they going to drop a good performing sponsor in favour of a poorer one who gave the 10%?
If so they lose.
If they're saying there is no difference between one site and the the next then they need to look at themselves to see where and how they make more money.
They need to be increasing their surfers loyalty. If after 10 years they have not built up a vast army of bookmarkers and surfers who come to Freeones to check out the next site they join that's their fault. Maybe partly due to promoting the wrong sites for the wrong reasons.
Posted on Xbiz.
If they need to be spending lots of money to stand still on traffic, whose fault is that?Besides this, we invest huge amount of money in advertising. For example, [we advertise] at expos and [run] ads on other websites.
The way good marketing works is to get a customer and keep them. The way Freeones seems to be operating is to get them, sell them something that bests suits them and then the customer moves on. Seriously their reviews suck, they review to many, too badly and this leads to surfers not coming back. Maybe they need to look at their business to earn more and not stick their hands out demanding others pay out.Comment
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