Let's talk about traffic washing and dilution

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  • PowerCum
    CjOverkill
    • Apr 2003
    • 1328

    #1

    Let's talk about traffic washing and dilution

    This is a long post, but eventually you will like it, so take a cup of coffee and some popcorn. For some people this will change the way to see the well known traffic brokering business model. You will learn how traffic brokers wash traffic on you and also will learn how to wash their already washed traffic against them and make money out of nowhere.

    I would like some traffic brokers to comment on this too. But be very careful with your comments. I have not named the brokers that were used for the tests (almost all of them), but if you post you are exposing yourself to a reply like "This was your traffic". Even that, most probably I have tested your traffic already and could also post the results.

    Most people complain that their ratios have gone down the drain during the last 9 months.
    One of the reasons for these bad ratios are traffic brokers doing traffic washing and hence diluting the real traffic value. With more traffic being washed out of the usual traffic circuits, the traffic you get is getting less value each day.
    I decided to make a scientific research on how much does traffic brokered traffic get diluted, washed and at the end, the buyer (webmaster) scammed buying traffic that has much lower value.

    ### 1 --> Enter the traffic broker
    During the last years I think I am the only traffic trading script supporter who has never sold his script payload traffic to traffic brokers. The main reason is that traffic brokers always tend to wash a good percentage of their traffic. The other reason is that I know how to convert that traffic into money.
    During the last months several brokers have approached me asking me to sell them that traffic. Even a couple of non brokering companies, so I was aware something fishy was going on.
    Then people suddenly started reporting their sales ratios going 10 times worse on TGP traffic while my sales ratios remained exactly the same, so that raised all the alarms on my side.

    ### 2 --> The setup
    This test took 4 months to develop and almost 15 days more more to analyze all the data. The total amount of money spent for the test is near $7000 + 2 dedicated servers during 4 months.
    Since I wanted to compare apples to apples I had to give basically the same conditions for the traffic. I setup two sites that were exactly the same, running the same scripts, having the same layout and the same server and scripts configurations. The server were exactly the same hardware and system configured exactly the same way. One of the servers would be used with traffic brokered traffic exclusively and the other would be used with my traffic as control traffic.
    This way I could make sure that both systems ran on the same traffic numbers during the same hours, so chances for clicks and sales should be exactly the same.

    The control traffic was the CjOverkill payout traffic coming completely untargeted from multiple sites that run CjOverkill.
    The other traffic would be traffic broker traffic also coming untargeted for multiple niches (nichemix).

    ### 3 --> Tuning the setup
    Ok, now that I had two servers ready, one of these servers was set as control server receiving the control traffic and the other was set as study server where the traffic broker traffic was arriving.
    The first thing to do was to test traffic brokering traffics till I found the right traffic to match the same productivity as my own traffic.

    On most traffic brokers it was the "niche mix" traffic, and lucky for me it resulted to be one of the cheapest traffics. Some traffic brokers allow you to buy other trade scripts payout traffic, but in practically all the cases the results were worse than my control traffic.
    Once I matched traffic productivities the whole system was ready for real life tests.

    ### 4 --> Running a TGP/MGP test
    Neither of both TGPs was trading traffic with other sites. Both sites had the same galleries listed and exactly the same layout.
    The traffic used to test was 170k spread at 1k per hour during one full week period

    Control site running my traffic completely untargeted did about 120% average prod and made 4 sales.
    The study site running the traffic broker traffic did about 125% average prod and made no sales at all.

    ### 5 --> Running a paysite test
    The paysite test of choice was an AFF landing page that looks very much like a TGP, so it ensured that the surfers would not close it right away.
    This test was ran with 90k traffic brokering traffic vs 75k of my control traffic.
    The results were more than bizarre:

    Tracking ID Clicks Uniques Total Signups Uni/Signup Women Signups # Orders $ Orders Ajustes de pedidos de usuarios /Devoluciones / Créditos
    control 100718 76848 63 1219.8 5 0 $0.00 0
    broker 88570 87783 35 2508.1 1 0 $0.00 0

    As you can see, my traffic made 63 free signups while the traffic broker traffic made only 35, while my traffic was 10k uniques less.
    Since it's a dating site I decided to give these free signups a month and see how much would they convert into paid signups.
    The traffic broker traffic has made no sales (zero, nothing, null, nada). My control traffic has converted into a total amount of $648.89 after a month since the test finish.
    At this point the red lights were all blinking right in my face and I decided to make further investigation on these traffic broker traffics.

    ### 6 --> Traffic GeoIP Analysis
    The GeoIP country stats showed most traffic brokers had a huge percentage of traffic from non USA/EU countries. One traffic broker had remarcably more Russin Federation traffic, while other had lots of south american traffic.
    My own traffic used as countrol traffic showed a very balanced country mix, so that raised my alarms and made me investigate a bit more the traffic brokers country mix.
    Some of the traffic brokers were shaving the USA/EU countries during some hours when their traffic was practically 40% Russian or South American while during the rest of the hours it was still high percentage, but not that high.
    In any case, the USA/EU counries traffic was much less than it was on my control traffic. Between 15% and 30% less, sometimes even more.

    So it was clear that the traffic brokers were redirecting most USA/EU traffic and selling the crap countries traffic they didn't even know what to do with.

    ### 7 --> Traffic hitbot analysis
    So knowing that the so reputable traffic brokers were shaving the USA/EU traffic I just wanted to test if they also spread hitbots.
    So far, practically all the traffic brokers were spreading bots, some more, some less. Between 15% and 65% was all bot traffic. Note that 65% is alot of bot traffic.
    Some bots were so rudimentary that they were more than easy to detect on runtime. Others required some more difficult to do tests, but still doable and possible.
    Kind of bots I detected:
    1 ) Bots that were clicking several times per second. Even the fastest clicking human cannot make 5 clicks in one second.
    2 ) Bots that were loading and clicking on hidden images. Some of these even hidden under a HTML layout, so even knowing where is the 1x1 pixel image you cannot click on it because it's under another layout.
    3 ) Bots that had a known screen saver autosurfing application signature. You know all these screensavers that surf around while you are away?
    4 ) Bots running IE api pretending to be FireFox browser.
    5 ) Bots that accepted the conary cookies and then passed them to the site again. A conary cookie is a cookie that a real browser would not accept, while a bot would not have a way to distinguish if it's real or not.
    6 ) Bots that once marked with UniqueID that changes with each load or click would load or click on the site again with the old ID instead of accepting the new one.

    It's more than clean that traffic brokers either don't have the needed tools to filter their traffic, or they just sell the garbage while keeping the good traffic for themselves. No wonder your traffic is converting worse if you buy traffic from brokers or trade with sites buying from brokers. About 50% to 80% of that traffic is either hitbot or has no credit card at all (making a sum between bots and crap countries).


    What can you do to benefit from this situation?
    Wash the traffic back again. This worked pretty good for me so far and it was really funny to do it.

    1 ) Set traffic seller/buyer accounts with these same brokers.
    2 ) Buy traffic from Broker A and sell it to Broker B.
    3 ) Filter the USA/EU traffic in the process and send it to where that traffic matters.

    It's a bit more complex, but I won't give you the exact details.
    The end result is that you recover the money yo spent on non USA/EU traffic you bought from broker A by selling that same traffic back to traffic broker B, so you end paying $2 for 1k of USA/EU traffic with about 20% hitbots factor.
    Depending on the broker A and broker B prices/payouts that traffic may even end being free for you.


    The results in this post are from the worst traffic broker from the test, yet no one of the others was even close to my control traffic.


    Now let the flames begin
    CjOverkill Traffic Trading Script
    Free, secure and fast traffic trading script. Get your copy now
  • After Shock Media
    It's coming look busy
    • Mar 2001
    • 35299

    #2
    Interesting read.
    Wish you had some screen shots and such to further push your point though I see no reason for deception unless you just really hate all traffic brokers.

    [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

    Comment

    • Dave PSC
      Confirmed User
      • Feb 2008
      • 224

      #3
      Thank you for the effort to educate us all in this. I found it very helpful in understanding the purchased traffic market.

      www.pinkstarcash.com
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      Dave ICQ: 434741855

      Comment

      • Davy
        Confirmed User
        • Apr 2006
        • 4323

        #4
        Very interesting post.
        ---
        ICQ 14-76-98 <-- I don't use this at all

        Comment

        • Oracle Porn
          Affiliate
          • Oct 2002
          • 24433

          #5
          ok u sell ur traffic?


          Comment

          • dynastoned
            mmm yeah!
            • Feb 2005
            • 5061

            #6
            good post. traffic buyers be wary.

            Comment

            • fuzebox
              making it rain
              • Oct 2003
              • 22363

              #7
              Nice writeup and nice research... This is one of those things I always suspected but would never have the time or resources to prove like this.

              Comment

              • Twig
                Confirmed User
                • Nov 2005
                • 1949

                #8
                Interesting... opened my eyes for sure.

                Comment

                • leedsfan
                  leedsfan
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 2564

                  #9
                  thank you for your informative post. Great read.
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                  Comment

                  • halfpint
                    GFY's Halfpint
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 15223

                    #10
                    nice post

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                    Comment

                    • Markul
                      Likes Pie
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 12407

                      #11
                      Good post, one of those that makes me realise just how little I know lol :D
                      But.... I pulled out...

                      Comment

                      • James124
                        So Fucking Banned
                        • Jun 2006
                        • 261

                        #12
                        THX for posting. Conary cookies? Do they have another name - I tried googling it?

                        Comment

                        • CurrentlySober
                          Too lazy to wipe my ass
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 38975

                          #13
                          Good post, interesting read.
                          Thanks
                          ️ ️

                          Comment

                          • fusionx
                            Confirmed User
                            • Nov 2003
                            • 4618

                            #14
                            Post of the month

                            Comment

                            • Xxxavier
                              Registered User
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 81

                              #15
                              Interesting...


                              thank u
                              Xxxavier Hawk | ICQ:218431232 | email: [email protected]

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                              Comment

                              • rowan
                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                • Mar 2002
                                • 17393

                                #16
                                Originally posted by James124
                                THX for posting. Conary cookies? Do they have another name - I tried googling it?
                                I'm guessing he meant canary

                                Comment

                                • martinsc
                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                  • Jun 2005
                                  • 27043

                                  #17
                                  great post, very interesting read
                                  Make Money

                                  Comment

                                  • wizzart
                                    scriptmaster
                                    • May 2006
                                    • 5246

                                    #18
                                    How to filter traffic?
                                    BimboZone

                                    Comment

                                    • MRock
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Dec 2007
                                      • 251

                                      #19
                                      good post ... wish I had time to do such testing ... noobs will still buy that traffic just to see their stats counters go up though lmao
                                      Sell more Jill: Strapon Gurl Clips - Pixaloons Video Clips - Busty Smoker Clips

                                      Comment

                                      • commonsense
                                        So Fucking Banned
                                        • Feb 2007
                                        • 1790

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by fusionx
                                        Post of the month


                                        It certainly is. Keep this on the front page.

                                        Comment

                                        • qxm
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jul 2006
                                          • 5970

                                          #21
                                          dam...gotta take a shower and come back to read this.........looks good....

                                          ICQ: 266990876

                                          Comment

                                          • MaDalton
                                            I am Amazing Content!
                                            • Feb 2004
                                            • 39861

                                            #22
                                            interesting...
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                                            Comment

                                            • BVF
                                              Black Vagina Finder
                                              • Jan 2002
                                              • 13975

                                              #23
                                              Excellent thread....Too bad the title doesn't convey the importance of it.

                                              This thread should be a sticky.

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                                              Comment

                                              • BVF
                                                Black Vagina Finder
                                                • Jan 2002
                                                • 13975

                                                #24
                                                Oh, and can you tell us who you bought traffic from? I'll understand if you don't want to answer.

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                                                Comment

                                                • DBS.US
                                                  Geo Cities
                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                  • 11842

                                                  #25
                                                  Buy traffic?
                                                  Have an unused domain? Make a Free Chaturbate White Label site and be making money tonight

                                                  Comment

                                                  • digifan
                                                    The Profiler
                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                    • 14618

                                                    #26
                                                    But to waste $7K on this.. just my 2 cents.
                                                    [email protected]
                                                    Webair Rocks

                                                    Comment

                                                    • DBS.US
                                                      Geo Cities
                                                      • Aug 2003
                                                      • 11842

                                                      #27
                                                      Please help me understand this... If someone has traffic that contains real surfers/customers (which is the only valuable traffic) then why sell are they selling it, instead of using it themselves to make sells somewhere??? The fact that someone wants to "sell" traffic at all, makes me think it is traffic that can't be worth a damn.

                                                      I have never understood the whole concept of buying traffic (that could only be shit traffic), or the motivation to sell "valuable" traffic.

                                                      Someone please explain......
                                                      Have an unused domain? Make a Free Chaturbate White Label site and be making money tonight

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Celeb Fan
                                                        So Fucking Banned
                                                        • Oct 2007
                                                        • 250

                                                        #28
                                                        is there any 100&#37; proof way to detect who is sending you hitbots?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Monique Niccole
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Nov 2002
                                                          • 5653

                                                          #29
                                                          This is a really great business related thread. I'm glad you took the time to write it.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • L-Pink
                                                            working on my tan
                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                            • 39151

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                            Please help me understand this... If someone has traffic that contains real surfers/customers (which is the only valuable traffic) then why sell are they selling it, instead of using it themselves to make sells somewhere??? The fact that someone wants to "sell" traffic at all, makes me think it is traffic that can't be worth a damn.

                                                            I have never understood the whole concept of buying traffic (that could only be shit traffic), or the motivation to sell "valuable" traffic.

                                                            Someone please explain......
                                                            Bump for a good question ..... Well?

                                                            Comment

                                                            • u-Bob
                                                              there's no $$$ in porn
                                                              • Jul 2005
                                                              • 33063

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by MRock
                                                              noobs will still buy that traffic just to see their stats counters go up though lmao
                                                              Only noobs believe that there is such a thing a useless traffic and make fun of people who buy traffic.

                                                              Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                              Please help me understand this... If someone has traffic that contains real surfers/customers (which is the only valuable traffic) then why sell are they selling it, instead of using it themselves to make sells somewhere??? The fact that someone wants to "sell" traffic at all, makes me think it is traffic that can't be worth a damn.

                                                              I have never understood the whole concept of buying traffic (that could only be shit traffic), or the motivation to sell "valuable" traffic.

                                                              Someone please explain......
                                                              The reason most people sell traffic is guaranteed income.
                                                              - Generating Traffic (Through SEO or traffic trading or viral marketing or ...) and converting traffic (selling a product) are 2 totaly different skills.
                                                              - Selling traffic to a broker = instant income. Sending traffic to a sponsor = having to wait a month for you money.

                                                              The fact that someone wants to "sell" traffic at all, makes me think it is traffic that can't be worth a damn.
                                                              You could say the same about traded traffic. Why would anyone want to send valuable traffic to a trade partner? So that mean 95% of all TGP traffic can't be worth a dime, right? And what about Google Adwords? Google is selling adspots. If those spots were worth anything, then why would Google be selling them?
                                                              The reason people think bought traffic is worthless, is because they have no idea how to filter their traffic. If it were really as simple as buying a couple of 1000 hits and sending them to your sponsor link, don't you think everybody would be doing it? Converting any kind of traffic requires (hard) work and skill. Some kinds of traffic are harder to generate, but easier to convert (for example se traffic), other kinds of traffic are easier to generate, but harder to convert (for example skimmed tgp traffic)... but in the end there's no such thing as worthless traffic, there are only worthless webmasters.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Babaganoosh
                                                                ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥
                                                                • Nov 2001
                                                                • 15841

                                                                #32
                                                                It's ironic that people are listening to a well-known thief trying to back up his theories on shady business with a bullshit study he claims to have done.

                                                                Folks, this guy is a thieving turd. Even if his study was real (and it isn't, I promise), it was still done with a script he stole and claimed as his own.

                                                                http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=186866
                                                                http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=151072
                                                                http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=190345

                                                                Frankly I am betting this is a troll to try to get Choker to respond so he can claim to have evidence that Choker is one of the shady traffic brokers he says he "tested."

                                                                Amirite?
                                                                I like pie.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Altheon
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • May 2004
                                                                  • 506

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Brokered Traffic Arbitrage... nice! Excellent post. I have to admit, a biz post of this quality is a little out of place on GFY.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Babaganoosh
                                                                    ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥
                                                                    • Nov 2001
                                                                    • 15841

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Altheon
                                                                    Brokered Traffic Arbitrage... nice! Excellent post. I have to admit, a biz post of this quality is a little out of place on GFY.
                                                                    It's really not a nice post. It's a few common practices mixed with theories and coated with a bullshit experiment that never actually happened. Goddamn some of you people are gullible.
                                                                    I like pie.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • DBS.US
                                                                      Geo Cities
                                                                      • Aug 2003
                                                                      • 11842

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by u-Bob
                                                                      The reason most people sell traffic is guaranteed income.
                                                                      - Generating Traffic (Through SEO or traffic trading or viral marketing or ...) and converting traffic (selling a product) are 2 totaly different skills.
                                                                      - Selling traffic to a broker = instant income. Sending traffic to a sponsor = having to wait a month for you money.

                                                                      Sharing traffic is WAY different than what we are talking about here. In a group of potential customers, say 100 come to TOM's site and 100 other go to BILL's site. Half of BILL's traffic wants what he is selling and the other half want what TOM is selling but don't know about TOM. Let's say TOM has a similar situation on his hands with his traffic. The two (BILL and TOM) can either keep all of their traffic and make 50 sales each or they can share traffic and make 100 sales each. It is a no brainner.

                                                                      But that is not answering anything about buying and selling "TRAFFIC".

                                                                      Not having to wait a month to get a paycheck can not be the real reason behind someone deciding to sell perfectly good traffic. That seems like a very immature and amateur approach to business. A real business person doesn't mind at all waiting a month to get a check. In fact they usually get a check every month. What's the hurry??? Your answer sounds like something that someone told you, not something you found out from experience.

                                                                      My real questions are... (and this also goes out to everyone)...

                                                                      How much money have you ever made "selling" traffic???

                                                                      How much money have you ever made "buying" traffic and directing it to something that would convert??

                                                                      If I could make real sales from my traffic it seems like it would result in more revenue from those sales than the revenue that would come from selling off the traffic itself. I wouldn't mind waiting a month if it meant more revenue.

                                                                      Can anyone on here speak to this issue from a perspective of actual personal experience???
                                                                      Have an unused domain? Make a Free Chaturbate White Label site and be making money tonight

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • zigx
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Sep 2003
                                                                        • 1430

                                                                        #36
                                                                        thank you for taking the time to write all of this out and post it for everyone.

                                                                        good man.
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                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • u-Bob
                                                                          there's no $$$ in porn
                                                                          • Jul 2005
                                                                          • 33063

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                          Sharing traffic is WAY different than what we are talking about here.
                                                                          No it's not. There's no difference whatsoever between selling a visitor in exchange for money or selling a visitor in exchange for another visitor. If you automatically assume that sold traffic (in exchange for money) is useless traffic then there's no reason to not assume that traded traffic is useless traffic.

                                                                          Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                          But that is not answering anything about buying and selling "TRAFFIC".
                                                                          Yes it is. might wanna reread it

                                                                          Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                          Not having to wait a month to get a paycheck can not be the real reason behind someone deciding to sell perfectly good traffic.
                                                                          There's no such thing as 'perfectly good traffic'... and there's no such thing as 'useless traffic'... and there's no such thing as 'worthless traffic'... All traffic is good traffic.

                                                                          Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                          How much money have you ever made "selling" traffic???
                                                                          plenty..

                                                                          Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                          How much money have you ever made "buying" traffic and directing it to something that would convert??
                                                                          plenty..

                                                                          Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                          If I could make real sales from my traffic it seems like it would result in more revenue from those sales than the revenue that would come from selling off the traffic itself.
                                                                          1. There's more to USING traffic than directly selling products.
                                                                          2. Like I said before: Generating traffic and converting traffic are 2 totally different skills.



                                                                          This thread confirms 1 thing: the lack of creativity amongst webmasters.


                                                                          (note: The word 'traffic' in my posts refers to real, human traffic)

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • DBS.US
                                                                            Geo Cities
                                                                            • Aug 2003
                                                                            • 11842

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Plenty????

                                                                            Originally posted by u-Bob
                                                                            plenty..
                                                                            Plenty???? What the hell is plenty??? Am I talking to a real businessman or not???

                                                                            Talk numbers. Be specific. All this vague talk is just bullshit. If you ask a working actor what SAG union scale is, they can give you a number not a response like "plenty".

                                                                            If you are not speaking from real world experience, then don't waste everybody's time.

                                                                            There are too many people on this board that talk out of there ass.

                                                                            DO YOU MAKE AT LEAST ENOUGH MONEY ON THE WEB TO PAY YOUR MONTHLY EXPENSES??? If you do, TALK NUMBERS. If not, then your statements have no validity.

                                                                            THROW OUT SOME NUMBERS!!! Put up or shut up.

                                                                            I know the majority of the members of GFY are guys that make less than 5,000 a month off of ALL the hours spent and ALL their efforts on the web. Yet these are the guys that have thousands of posts on here.

                                                                            I'm looking for an answer from someone who makes a living doing this, not someone who is on here for recreation.

                                                                            If you can't give real numbers then you only do a disservice to everyone on here.
                                                                            Have an unused domain? Make a Free Chaturbate White Label site and be making money tonight

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • woj
                                                                              <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                              • Jul 2002
                                                                              • 47880

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Come on, it took you 4.5 months and $7k to conclude that traffic that goes through a broker, trade script, etc is of lower quality than the traffic that doesn't?! It seems pretty common sense to me...
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                                                                              • Xxxavier
                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                • Sep 2004
                                                                                • 81

                                                                                #40
                                                                                I would love to hear more on this one...anyone
                                                                                Xxxavier Hawk | ICQ:218431232 | email: [email protected]

                                                                                chaotictraffic.com
                                                                                dickjacking.com and trade and LinkEx
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                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • SCORE Ralph
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Mar 2003
                                                                                  • 2090

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                                  Plenty???? What the hell is plenty??? Am I talking to a real businessman or not???

                                                                                  Talk numbers. Be specific. All this vague talk is just bullshit. If you ask a working actor what SAG union scale is, they can give you a number not a response like "plenty".

                                                                                  If you are not speaking from real world experience, then don't waste everybody's time.

                                                                                  There are too many people on this board that talk out of there ass.

                                                                                  DO YOU MAKE AT LEAST ENOUGH MONEY ON THE WEB TO PAY YOUR MONTHLY EXPENSES??? If you do, TALK NUMBERS. If not, then your statements have no validity.

                                                                                  THROW OUT SOME NUMBERS!!! Put up or shut up.

                                                                                  I know the majority of the members of GFY are guys that make less than 5,000 a month off of ALL the hours spent and ALL their efforts on the web. Yet these are the guys that have thousands of posts on here.

                                                                                  I'm looking for an answer from someone who makes a living doing this, not someone who is on here for recreation.

                                                                                  If you can't give real numbers then you only do a disservice to everyone on here.

                                                                                  ^^
                                                                                  Well, thats one way to extrapolate data.
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                                                                                  • u-Bob
                                                                                    there's no $$$ in porn
                                                                                    • Jul 2005
                                                                                    • 33063

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                                    Plenty???? What the hell is plenty???
                                                                                    That's a response from a person who makes money using a certain technique but does not want to disclose the exact amount. And why would I? It's totally besides the point.

                                                                                    Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                                    Am I talking to a real businessman or not???
                                                                                    I'm getting the impression that I'm the one who's not talking to a real business person, since you fail to even grasp basic concepts such as traffic trading or to address the points I've made in my posts but instead resort to a kind of immature personal attack about income.

                                                                                    The real question here is "Would a person be selling a product if that product was worth something?" According to your post that would be impossible; You think that if the traffic is worth something the seller would not sell it but convert it instead...

                                                                                    Well, let's take a look at that Google example again. Google is selling ad spots. If those spots were really worth something then why would Google be selling them instead of joining 'a couple' affiliate programs and converting the traffic themselves?
                                                                                    Or why even use an affiliate program? Isn't sending traffic to a sponsor and getting paid for the converted part of the traffic the same as selling traffic? So why doesn't everybody start their own paysites in every possible niche instead of using affiliate programs? And what about for example factories that produce raw steel, why don't they make (and sell) their own cars, spoons, knives, bridges, tubes, trains,... instead of selling the steel? Now that steel can't be good if they are selling it, right? And why don't farmers use all of their grains to make flower? And why don't they use all of that flower to bake bread themselves? And why don't they sell all of those breads?

                                                                                    Different activities/techniques, require different skills/resources...

                                                                                    Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                                    Talk numbers. Be specific. All this vague talk is just bullshit.
                                                                                    Like I said, only noobs think using bought traffic is as simple as buying x k of hits and sending them to a sponsors page. There are tons of factors to take into consideration (direct revenue, branding, alexa, cpm, trades, returning visitors, browsers,.... ...). So, only a noob would expect a simple answer such as "bought x number of hits for y mount of USD, sent it to a page with sponsor Z ads and made B amount of USD".

                                                                                    Originally posted by DBS.US
                                                                                    If you are....... disservice to everyone on here.

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                                                                                    • Redmanthatcould
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Dec 2006
                                                                                      • 2771

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Thanks for the post - a good read all around.

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                                                                                      • Mark_E4A
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Apr 2003
                                                                                        • 1514

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        I highly doubt you will get any of the current traffic brokers in here.

                                                                                        So i will stick my nose in here

                                                                                        I am starting to sell ad spots ( galleries, banners ect.. ) still finishing my site.

                                                                                        why dont i want to keep sending the traffic to sponsors?
                                                                                        cause i have been doing this along time and been fucked over by far too many ( no names mentioned )

                                                                                        slowly but surely sponsors are being removed. ( not all, i found a few solid no bs sponsors, but..... )

                                                                                        sponsors want it, they can buy it upfront.
                                                                                        icq - 205700725
                                                                                        email - marke4a at gmail com
                                                                                        phone - 416-809-4393

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                                                                                        • c-lo
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • May 2005
                                                                                          • 925

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Great read - appreciate it if it's not biased (as Babaganoosh states.) I'm also enjoying the debate between U-Bob and DBS.US.

                                                                                          I used to buy traffic, but never really learned how to convert it well - now I focus most of my efforts on SEO.

                                                                                          I have recently started selling traffic and it's working out well. I can advertise on my site and if a visitor doesn't buy anything, I can still sell them off to something of interest and make the maximum payment from brokers.

                                                                                          I sell traffic for a couple of reasons - a steady income source (albeit small at the moment) and because it's a lot easier than managing often-dishonest trades. Also, I know that my traffic is of higher quality than most of my trades because I set my skim to 75-80% and nearly all of my traffic is SE generated, so trading for lower-quality TGP traffic just isn't worth it to me (in most cases.)

                                                                                          Just my 2 cents,
                                                                                          c-lo
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                                                                                          • Fuckin Bill
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Feb 2003
                                                                                            • 1020

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            I'd have to say I don't really think it's comparing apples to apples.

                                                                                            The "control" traffic is coming from your CjOverkill script installations on various sites. The script makes no choices in who it skims back to you (I would assume). It just takes whatever percentage of traffic it's supposed to take from each site and sends it to you. The webmasters get no choice in the matter and can't determine what traffic you get or don't get. For lack of a better word, you're getting a more "natural" sample of the traffic from a lot of sites.

                                                                                            The "test" traffic was specifically chosen by the webmasters to be sold. Whether the brokers do anything with it in the middle or not, they can only get their hands on what the webmaster wants to sell. And most webmasters are not going to sell off their best traffic. They send the majority of their traffic to their sponsors or other sites of their own. What goes to the brokers is the leftovers they are trying to squeeze a little more money from because they've already run it through the wringer and really don't expect it to convert anyway.

                                                                                            One source of traffic is pre-filtered by the webmasters, one is not.

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                                                                                            • Dangermoose007
                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                              • Feb 2008
                                                                                              • 17

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Very interesting read, it makes a lot of sense, though im still keeping an eye on the ongoing debate I wouldn't go so far as to say using traffic brokers is throwing away money, but it does seem as if they do have limited useage.
                                                                                              Purchase my products and/or services.

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                                                                                              • Xxxavier
                                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                                • Sep 2004
                                                                                                • 81

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                its a numbers game, monitizing traffic at all cost...
                                                                                                Xxxavier Hawk | ICQ:218431232 | email: [email protected]

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                                                                                                • rowan
                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                  • Mar 2002
                                                                                                  • 17393

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Mark_E4A
                                                                                                  I am starting to sell ad spots ( galleries, banners ect.. ) still finishing my site.

                                                                                                  why dont i want to keep sending the traffic to sponsors?
                                                                                                  cause i have been doing this along time and been fucked over by far too many ( no names mentioned )
                                                                                                  Now instead you get fucked by traffic buyers who send you funds from a fraudulently funded epass account.

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                                                                                                  • Bake
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                                                                    • 5916

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Made up or not still an interesting read and if its bullshit its well written thought out bullshit witch is still interesting
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