Zimmerman will be acquitted

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  • L-Pink
    working on my tan
    • Mar 2005
    • 39151
    #251
    Originally posted by tony286
    I find that hard to believe,you were told by the police to do that? Your neighborhood assumes great liability.
    What's hard to believe? That we don't call the police and report someone is walking around every time a stranger is spotted? The Tampa police would stop showing up if that was the case plus you would have upset guests.

    If someone is acting very suspicious then yes the police are called otherwise discretion is used. That's just common sense. Where you live the police are called 100% of the time someone is walking around that isn't recognized ? Wow.

    Our guys are usually riding in golf carts and always, always initiate a conversation.


    .
    Last edited by L-Pink; 06-30-2013, 06:49 AM.

      Comment

      • anexsia
        Confirmed User
        • May 2010
        • 5735
        #252
        Originally posted by Mutt
        I haven't followed this trial at all - is it being covered live on TV?

        From reading this thread the prosecution has little chance of a murder conviction - reasonable doubt is not a large burden for defense attorneys to achieve in the minds of a jury. the legal system we have is predicated on the belief that it's better to have 9 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent man found guilty. Zimmerman could be one of those 9, we'll never know since there were no eye witnesses to the fight.

        so at the end of the trial the judge can instruct the jury that should they not be able to agree that he's guilty of 2nd degree murder they can consider a guilty verdict of manslaughter?
        Yup, the trial is being broadcasted live so you can follow all of it....so far the prosecution is doing the defense's job for them...this case should have never gone to trial and no charges should have been filed.

          Comment

          • baddog
            So Fucking Banned
            • Apr 2001
            • 107089
            #253
            Originally posted by tony286
            It sounds like from a bad b movie. If the kid saw the gun he would of shit himself.
            And you know this how?

            Originally posted by tony286
            He was walking home in a hoodie in the rain at 7pm. Please tell me what was suspicious? Also he lived there and didnt know where the kid was heading he was just walking down the street. Again he may have been a theft but he stole nothing but the guy with the history of violence killed someone.
            You and Rochard really should be in Florida now; the prosecution needs some witnesses that will bolster their case.

              Comment

              • tonyparra
                Confirmed User
                • Jul 2008
                • 4568
                #254
                Originally posted by Grapesoda
                if they don't find Zimmerman guilty the black will burn their homes and neighborhoods down, and possibly start killing random white people like they did in the 60's
                yeah cus shit was all good for blacks in the 60s

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                  Comment

                  • Rochard
                    Jägermeister Test Pilot
                    • Dec 2001
                    • 75733
                    #255
                    Originally posted by theking
                    What position would that be? What gives you the impression that there were no rules? No one was playing at anything. One of the members of the watch was a reserve Deputy and two of the members of the watch were retired police officers.
                    We should not, under any circumstances, have armed civilians patrolling anything. Neighborhood watch has zero fucking authority to do anything other than call the police. I don't think a reserve deputy is qualified; In my neck of the woods a reserve deputy is someone they call up in an extreme emergency to direct traffic (they did this in my hometown during the propane train fire), and retired cops are the worst - they think they know all, have a limited tolerance for bullshit, and are last kind of person you want on the neighborhood watch.

                    What you've just told me is exactly the root of the problem here - we had an untrained armed neighborhood watch member who completely went out of his way to break all rules of the neighborhood watch. His job wasn't to pursue and detain; His job was to call the fucking police.

                    The end result is a seventeen year old kid was killed seventy feet from the front door who's only crime was buying skittles.

                    You aren't the solution, you are the problem.
                    Herschel Savage
                    Brooklyn, NY

                      Comment

                      • Rochard
                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                        • Dec 2001
                        • 75733
                        #256
                        Originally posted by RFremont
                        Can you cite where that's documented, that small detail about the 12 pieces of women's jewelry and a screwdriver in young trayvon's backpack.
                        This seems to be true. The items were never proven to be stolen, although it seems pretty obvious. He was also suspended from school for a bong or something.

                        I'm not saying the kid is completely innocent, but he was shot and killed seventy feet from his front door for no reason at all.
                        Herschel Savage
                        Brooklyn, NY

                          Comment

                          • L-Pink
                            working on my tan
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 39151
                            #257
                            Originally posted by Rochard
                            but he was shot and killed seventy feet from his front door for no reason at all.
                            As long as we are pulling scenarios out of our asses, who's to say Martin didn't attack someone who was simply following and observing what he thought was suspicious behavior? That's as plausible as Zimmerman just shooting someone for no reason.

                            .

                              Comment

                              • baddog
                                So Fucking Banned
                                • Apr 2001
                                • 107089
                                #258
                                Originally posted by Rochard
                                I'm not saying the kid is completely innocent, but he was shot and killed seventy feet from his front door for no reason at all.
                                For no reason other than he was beating a guy's head against the pavement . . . with the intent to inflict great bodily harm; possibly even attempted murder.

                                  Comment

                                  • Rochard
                                    Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                    • Dec 2001
                                    • 75733
                                    #259
                                    Originally posted by tony286
                                    Also if it was all self defense why did they stay away from that when florida has a pretty loose stand your ground law.
                                    Zimmerman can't go with the "stand your ground" defense because he wasn't standing his ground or defending himself, but instead was pursuing Martin - he was following him.

                                    Even self defense doesn't fly with me. This was a fist fight, and Zimmerman was never in any serious damage. He didn't even go to the hospital. I've had a lot worse beat downs than this.

                                    Originally posted by tony286
                                    I think alot of these people defend him because its alot of gun owners fantasy of shooting the bad guy.
                                    People watch way too much TV and think they are James Bond.

                                    Seems to me Zimmerman was one of those persons. Being on the neighborhood watch is great, but being armed while doing it sounds a bit over the top to me.
                                    Herschel Savage
                                    Brooklyn, NY

                                      Comment

                                      • Rochard
                                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                        • Dec 2001
                                        • 75733
                                        #260
                                        Originally posted by L-Pink
                                        Funny our neighborhood was told the complete opposite. Our guys were told to politely confront, verify residency and monitor until police arrive for anyone not recognized as a resident and or acting in a suspicious manner. Not detain but "monitor".
                                        Where I live in here in California we have a volunteer police force. Anyone can join, it's unpaid, and you get a uniform. They even have special police cars marked as "volunteer", no red and blue lights, but instead orange. They do traffic enforcement - mostly at the local schools directly traffic when the kids get let out of school - and quietly patrol late at night. I don't know if they are armed or not, but I know their instructions are to never confront anyone and instead to call the regular police.

                                        Our HOA also has a security force that patrols at night. I rarely see them.
                                        Herschel Savage
                                        Brooklyn, NY

                                          Comment

                                          • Rochard
                                            Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                            • Dec 2001
                                            • 75733
                                            #261
                                            Originally posted by L-Pink
                                            "Excuse me sir. I'm with the neighborhood watch and part of my job is making sure no one trespasses on private resort property. Are you a new resident I haven't had the pleasure of meeting?"

                                            This is how a polite encounter should originate and is indicative of almost every instance where I live. Anyone with the smallest amount of common sense can tell a resident out for a walk vs someone who doesn't belong. But being in a tourist area everyone is given the polite benefit of doubt they belong. Wave to people you know politely talk to those you don't.

                                            In a non tourist community I would think a non resident would really stand out.
                                            This is what blows my mind. At no point in time did Zimmerman identify himself as a member of the "neighborhood watch". All Martin knew is that an older man with a firearm had stopped his truck, was watching him, and then following him.
                                            Herschel Savage
                                            Brooklyn, NY

                                              Comment

                                              • Rochard
                                                Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                • Dec 2001
                                                • 75733
                                                #262
                                                Originally posted by baddog
                                                For no reason other than he was beating a guy's head against the pavement . . . with the intent to inflict great bodily harm; possibly even attempted murder.
                                                This was a fist fight; Zimmerman didn't even need to go to the hospital.
                                                Herschel Savage
                                                Brooklyn, NY

                                                  Comment

                                                  • L-Pink
                                                    working on my tan
                                                    • Mar 2005
                                                    • 39151
                                                    #263
                                                    Originally posted by Rochard

                                                    Even self defense doesn't fly with me. This was a fist fight, and Zimmerman was never in any serious damage. He didn't even go to the hospital. I've had a lot worse beat downs than this.
                                                    What kind of a Marine were you? Fucking cook? Fist fights aren't dangerous? Ending up with your head on concrete isn't dangerous? Did you miss the hand to hand part of training?

                                                    You are the biggest fucking liar and storyteller on this forum or a master troller. If you ever had a "beat down" like you claim no way could you make such a naive comment about not being in danger.

                                                    Ask xxxjay about taking just one punch to the head.

                                                    .

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Rochard
                                                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                        • Dec 2001
                                                        • 75733
                                                        #264
                                                        Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                        As long as we are pulling scenarios out of our asses, who's to say Martin didn't attack someone who was simply following and observing what he thought was suspicious behavior? That's as plausible as Zimmerman just shooting someone for no reason.

                                                        .
                                                        That's very true.

                                                        From Zimmerman's point of view, he was following someone who looked suspicious.

                                                        From Martin's point of view, an older man with a firearm stopped his truck, watched Martin, and then followed him on foot. Martin most likely felt threatened and was scared. It's entirely possible that Martin attacked Zimmerman (without warning) because he thought he needed to defend himself against a man with a firearm. In fact, I am guessing this is the case - This kid surprised Zimmerman, got the first punch in, and Zimmerman wasn't able to recover from the first strike.

                                                        But if this is the case, you can argue Martin was acting in self defense - against a man with a firearm.
                                                        Herschel Savage
                                                        Brooklyn, NY

                                                          Comment

                                                          • L-Pink
                                                            working on my tan
                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                            • 39151
                                                            #265
                                                            You're nuts.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Rochard
                                                                Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                • Dec 2001
                                                                • 75733
                                                                #266
                                                                Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                What kind of a Marine were you? Fucking cook? Fist fights aren't dangerous? Ending up with your head on concrete isn't dangerous? Did you miss the hand to hand part of training?

                                                                You are the biggest fucking liar and storyteller on this forum or a master troller. If you ever had a "beat down" like you claim no way could you make such a naive comment about not being in danger.

                                                                Ask xxxjay about taking just one punch to the head.

                                                                .
                                                                I was infantry, 0352, TOW Gunner, and then later a 0913 Combat instructor. I did not teach hand to hand combat.

                                                                I've been in dozens of fist fights in my lifetime. In one case I did go to the hospital, but I wouldn't describe that as a fist fight. (In fact, I had internal bleeding and broken bones.)

                                                                Zimmerman didn't need to go do the hospital, nor did he even see a doctor. He had a fat lip. I would hardly call that "life threatening".
                                                                Herschel Savage
                                                                Brooklyn, NY

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • baddog
                                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                                    • Apr 2001
                                                                    • 107089
                                                                    #267
                                                                    Originally posted by Rochard

                                                                    Even self defense doesn't fly with me. This was a fist fight, and Zimmerman was never in any serious damage. He didn't even go to the hospital. I've had a lot worse beat downs than this.
                                                                    Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                    This was a fist fight; Zimmerman didn't even need to go to the hospital.
                                                                    So, it is your contention that he should wait until he is losing consciousness to consider going for his sidearm?

                                                                    Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                    That's very true.

                                                                    From Zimmerman's point of view, he was following someone who looked suspicious.

                                                                    From Martin's point of view, an older man with a firearm stopped his truck, watched Martin, and then followed him on foot.
                                                                    How did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun? and 28 is hardly "an older man"

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • The Porn Nerd
                                                                        Living The Dream
                                                                        • Jun 2009
                                                                        • 19787
                                                                        #268
                                                                        White people should not kill black people.
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                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • L-Pink
                                                                            working on my tan
                                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                                            • 39151
                                                                            #269
                                                                            Come on Rochard you were a combat instructor for the Marines. Paid certified bad asses. You should know the dangers of even one good punch to the head. The average male has never been hit hard by another adult. Just the disorientation means you now have a good chance of being on the losing end. And once on the losing end it's a matter of mercy on your opponent as to how bad you end up.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • JOH
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Feb 2003
                                                                                • 206
                                                                                #270
                                                                                I read most of these posts and find emotions playing a role determining why Zimmerman is guilty. The facts should dictate the outcome of the trial!

                                                                                So far, facts shown puts Zimmerman defending himself against Martin, bad outcome for Martin not knowing Zimmerman was carrying a gun. If Zimmerman was not carrying what would have been the outcome of that altercation?

                                                                                Everyone continue on, keeps me entertained by some responses from folks that are emotionally sensitive from people that carry guns. (2nd Amendmant Right)
                                                                                LOVE MY COUNTRY, USA!

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Captain Kawaii
                                                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                                                    • Oct 2007
                                                                                    • 6748
                                                                                    #271
                                                                                    Its best to let the facts and the evidence state the case.

                                                                                    I also remember that there were more than half a dozen break-ins in that neighborhood in the previous 6 months. According to witnesses and the police most of the break ins were perpetrated by people fitting Martin's description. I can easily understand why Zimmerman followed him. As anyone with a brain can do as well. What happened after that I do not know.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • vdbucks
                                                                                        Monger Cash
                                                                                        • Jul 2010
                                                                                        • 2773
                                                                                        #272
                                                                                        Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                        Zimmerman can't go with the "stand your ground" defense because he wasn't standing his ground or defending himself, but instead was pursuing Martin - he was following him.

                                                                                        Even self defense doesn't fly with me. This was a fist fight, and Zimmerman was never in any serious damage. He didn't even go to the hospital. I've had a lot worse beat downs than this.
                                                                                        Why aren't you the star witness for the prosecution? Sure as shit seems like you had a front row seat to the entire incident.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • brassmonkey
                                                                                            Pay It Forward
                                                                                            • Sep 2005
                                                                                            • 77396
                                                                                            #273
                                                                                            just agree to disagree
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                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Captain Kawaii
                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                • Oct 2007
                                                                                                • 6748
                                                                                                #274
                                                                                                Originally posted by vdbucks
                                                                                                Why aren't you the star witness for the prosecution? Sure as shit seems like you had a front row seat to the entire incident.
                                                                                                I am sure he has had many beat downs, as he says. lol. He never lets the facts get in the way of a good rant.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • mikesouth
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Jun 2003
                                                                                                    • 6334
                                                                                                    #275
                                                                                                    I got my renewed concealed carry permit yesterday...just sayin....
                                                                                                    Mike South

                                                                                                    It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • Rochard
                                                                                                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                        • Dec 2001
                                                                                                        • 75733
                                                                                                        #276
                                                                                                        Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                                        Come on Rochard you were a combat instructor for the Marines. Paid certified bad asses. You should know the dangers of even one good punch to the head. The average male has never been hit hard by another adult. Just the disorientation means you now have a good chance of being on the losing end. And once on the losing end it's a matter of mercy on your opponent as to how bad you end up.
                                                                                                        There are two sides of this - Most of us have had more than a few fist fights, never considered them life threatening, and never had to go to the doctor or hospital. On the other hand, a single strike in the right place can kill a man, or in the case of Jay the first strike can be more than enough to take out a man.

                                                                                                        It seems to me Zimmerman was on the loosing end of a smack down. He got a bloody lip. Was it life threatening? Hardly. This was a scuffle and a fist fight that Zimmerman was loosing.

                                                                                                        Here's what I think happened....
                                                                                                        1. Zimmerman saw Martin, didn't recognize him, and thought he looked suspicious.
                                                                                                        2. Zimmerman pulled his truck over, called police, and watched Martin.
                                                                                                        3. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and starts to follow him.
                                                                                                        4. Martin, who is on the cell phone, notices this, see he is armed (Zimmerman had the firearm in his waistband in plain sight?) and decides to take action.
                                                                                                        5. Martin ducks out of sight, loosing Zimmerman. Zimmerman reports this to the police, hangs up, and moves back towards his truck.
                                                                                                        6. Martin confronts Zimmerman, surprising him, pops Zimmerman in the face taking him down, and Martin jumps on top of Zimmerman and starts beating on him.
                                                                                                        7. Zimmerman shoots Martin, killing him.


                                                                                                        I am "guessing" it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman, mostly because Martin seems to have gotten the jump on Zimmerman and quickly controlled the situation. Either that or Zimmerman confronted Martin, hit first, but Martin got the upper hand. But I don't think who hit first is too important; Martin thought he was being pursued by a man with a firearm tucked in his waistband and felt the need to protect himself.

                                                                                                        This is going to boil down to if the jury thinks Zimmerman had the right to shoot Martin because Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. I think Zimmerman thought his life was in danger and / or panicked. In the head of the moment when another man is on top of you beating you up, that is a very difficult call to make.

                                                                                                        Zimmerman's injuries weren't life threatening. He didn't got to the hospital, and didn't need to see a doctor. He didn't get any medical attention. He got a fat lip and a few cuts.
                                                                                                        Herschel Savage
                                                                                                        Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • Rochard
                                                                                                            Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                            • Dec 2001
                                                                                                            • 75733
                                                                                                            #277
                                                                                                            Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                            So, it is your contention that he should wait until he is losing consciousness to consider going for his sidearm?
                                                                                                            At what point does a scuffle or a fist fight become life threatening? Seems to me after the fact Zimmerman was barely hurt - had a fat lip and some cuts.

                                                                                                            Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                            How did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun? and 28 is hardly "an older man"
                                                                                                            Martin was teenager, 17; Zimmerman is a full grown man at age 28. Yes, he was an older man. You can still do math, right?
                                                                                                            Herschel Savage
                                                                                                            Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • Rochard
                                                                                                                Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                • 75733
                                                                                                                #278
                                                                                                                Originally posted by vdbucks
                                                                                                                Why aren't you the star witness for the prosecution? Sure as shit seems like you had a front row seat to the entire incident.
                                                                                                                No, but I can read. I just posted what I thought happened, numbered and all, but this is what I "think" and is a "complete guess" being as I wasn't there, and also because one of the only two witnesses are dead.
                                                                                                                Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • vdbucks
                                                                                                                    Monger Cash
                                                                                                                    • Jul 2010
                                                                                                                    • 2773
                                                                                                                    #279
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                    There are two sides of this - Most of us have had more than a few fist fights, never considered them life threatening, and never had to go to the doctor or hospital. On the other hand, a single strike in the right place can kill a man, or in the case of Jay the first strike can be more than enough to take out a man.

                                                                                                                    It seems to me Zimmerman was on the loosing end of a smack down. He got a bloody lip. Was it life threatening? Hardly. This was a scuffle and a fist fight that Zimmerman was loosing.

                                                                                                                    Here's what I think happened....
                                                                                                                    1. Zimmerman saw Martin, didn't recognize him, and thought he looked suspicious.
                                                                                                                    2. Zimmerman pulled his truck over, called police, and watched Martin.
                                                                                                                    3. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and starts to follow him.
                                                                                                                    4. Martin, who is on the cell phone, notices this, see he is armed (Zimmerman had the firearm in his waistband in plain sight?) and decides to take action.
                                                                                                                    5. Martin ducks out of sight, loosing Zimmerman. Zimmerman reports this to the police, hangs up, and moves back towards his truck.
                                                                                                                    6. Martin confronts Zimmerman, surprising him, pops Zimmerman in the face taking him down, and Martin jumps on top of Zimmerman and starts beating on him.
                                                                                                                    7. Zimmerman shoots Martin, killing him.


                                                                                                                    I am "guessing" it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman, mostly because Martin seems to have gotten the jump on Zimmerman and quickly controlled the situation. Either that or Zimmerman confronted Martin, hit first, but Martin got the upper hand. But I don't think who hit first is too important; Martin thought he was being pursued by a man with a firearm tucked in his waistband and felt the need to protect himself.

                                                                                                                    This is going to boil down to if the jury thinks Zimmerman had the right to shoot Martin because Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. I think Zimmerman thought his life was in danger and / or panicked. In the head of the moment when another man is on top of you beating you up, that is a very difficult call to make.

                                                                                                                    Zimmerman's injuries weren't life threatening. He didn't got to the hospital, and didn't need to see a doctor. He didn't get any medical attention. He got a fat lip and a few cuts.
                                                                                                                    Now what kind of stupid does someone have to be to walk up to and start a fight with someone they know is armed?

                                                                                                                    I'm sorry but your entire "opinion" on what took place is nothing short of completely fucking moronic. I don't know about you but if I see someone with a gun walking towards me then I sure as shit ain't going to walk up and start a fight with him. I mean, I know they teach you jarheads that you're bullet proof but that's just plain fucking retarded for anyone with half a functional brain cell.
                                                                                                                    Last edited by vdbucks; 06-30-2013, 11:27 AM.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • Rochard
                                                                                                                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                        • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                        • 75733
                                                                                                                        #280
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by vdbucks
                                                                                                                        Now what kind of stupid does someone have to be to walk up to and start a fight with someone they know is armed?
                                                                                                                        Clearly someone with more balls than you.

                                                                                                                        Originally posted by vdbucks
                                                                                                                        I'm sorry but your entire "opinion" on what took place is nothing short of completely fucking moronic.
                                                                                                                        I don't see you offering up a timeline skippy.

                                                                                                                        Originally posted by vdbucks
                                                                                                                        I don't know about you but if I see someone with a gun walking towards me then I sure as shit ain't going to walk up and start a fight with him.
                                                                                                                        And yet Martin, a seventeen year old kid, beat up an older armed man. Go figure.
                                                                                                                        Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                        Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • baddog
                                                                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                            • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                            • 107089
                                                                                                                            #281
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                            At what point does a scuffle or a fist fight become life threatening? Seems to me after the fact Zimmerman was barely hurt - had a fat lip and some cuts.



                                                                                                                            Martin was teenager, 17; Zimmerman is a full grown man at age 28. Yes, he was an older man. You can still do math, right?

                                                                                                                            You said you are not watching the trial, so why do you think you have a clue as to what injuries he had? His nose was definitely bruised up and the skull had lumps and bruising. It changes from a fist fight to life threatening when one party starts using concrete as a weapon.



                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                            No, but I can read. I just posted what I thought happened, numbered and all, but this is what I "think" and is a "complete guess" being as I wasn't there, and also because one of the only two witnesses are dead.
                                                                                                                            Why not try watching admissible evidence instead of reading hearsay?

                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                            Clearly someone with more balls than you.



                                                                                                                            I don't see you offering up a timeline skippy.



                                                                                                                            And yet Martin, a seventeen year old kid, beat up an older armed man. Go figure.
                                                                                                                            Why do you think Martin knew Zimmerman was armed?

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • kane
                                                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                • 20684
                                                                                                                                #282
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                There are two sides of this - Most of us have had more than a few fist fights, never considered them life threatening, and never had to go to the doctor or hospital. On the other hand, a single strike in the right place can kill a man, or in the case of Jay the first strike can be more than enough to take out a man.

                                                                                                                                It seems to me Zimmerman was on the loosing end of a smack down. He got a bloody lip. Was it life threatening? Hardly. This was a scuffle and a fist fight that Zimmerman was loosing.

                                                                                                                                Here's what I think happened....
                                                                                                                                1. Zimmerman saw Martin, didn't recognize him, and thought he looked suspicious.
                                                                                                                                2. Zimmerman pulled his truck over, called police, and watched Martin.
                                                                                                                                3. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and starts to follow him.
                                                                                                                                4. Martin, who is on the cell phone, notices this, see he is armed (Zimmerman had the firearm in his waistband in plain sight?) and decides to take action.
                                                                                                                                5. Martin ducks out of sight, loosing Zimmerman. Zimmerman reports this to the police, hangs up, and moves back towards his truck.
                                                                                                                                6. Martin confronts Zimmerman, surprising him, pops Zimmerman in the face taking him down, and Martin jumps on top of Zimmerman and starts beating on him.
                                                                                                                                7. Zimmerman shoots Martin, killing him.


                                                                                                                                I am "guessing" it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman, mostly because Martin seems to have gotten the jump on Zimmerman and quickly controlled the situation. Either that or Zimmerman confronted Martin, hit first, but Martin got the upper hand. But I don't think who hit first is too important; Martin thought he was being pursued by a man with a firearm tucked in his waistband and felt the need to protect himself.

                                                                                                                                This is going to boil down to if the jury thinks Zimmerman had the right to shoot Martin because Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. I think Zimmerman thought his life was in danger and / or panicked. In the head of the moment when another man is on top of you beating you up, that is a very difficult call to make.

                                                                                                                                Zimmerman's injuries weren't life threatening. He didn't got to the hospital, and didn't need to see a doctor. He didn't get any medical attention. He got a fat lip and a few cuts.
                                                                                                                                I have a feeling that Zimmerman and Martin met up, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman told him that he was suspicious looking (or something like this perhaps even asking him why he was in the area). Martin says fuck it and tries to walk away and Zimmerman grabbed him by the hoodie to try to keep him from leaving and that was potentially the catalyst that started the fight.

                                                                                                                                I don't know if Martin punched first or not. It could have been kind of a tussle where they were pushing and kind of wrestling. All it takes is one good shot to the face and most people will go down. After Martin got that shot off on Zimmerman he got on top of him and was working him over and that is when Zimmerman shot and killed him.

                                                                                                                                Obviously, there were no witnesses that saw how the fight started or how the confrontation occurred so we can only go off of guesses. According to the testimony Zimmerman said that Martin came up to him as he was heading back to his truck while Martin's friend said that Zimmerman approached Martin and Martin stopped walking to confront him and ask him why he was following him. It is hard to say which is accurate.
                                                                                                                                Last edited by kane; 06-30-2013, 12:40 PM.

                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                  • Rochard
                                                                                                                                    Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                    • 75733
                                                                                                                                    #283
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                    You said you are not watching the trial, so why do you think you have a clue as to what injuries he had? His nose was definitely bruised up and the skull had lumps and bruising.
                                                                                                                                    I'm sorry, I didn't clarify myself. What I really meant say was "I am not intentionally watching the trial nor do I have that kind of free time, however, I do watch bits here and there". I have watched the trial here and there. I've seen parts of the chick Martin was talking to when this all went down, one of the witnesses who saw the resulting scuffle, and the first police officer on the scene who arrested Zimmerman.

                                                                                                                                    At the same time, I can read. I've read the defense's side, I've read the prosecution's side; I've read Zimmerman's statements. I've the police statements.

                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                    It changes from a fist fight to life threatening when one party starts using concrete as a weapon.
                                                                                                                                    You are saying that his head was bashed on concrete, yet Zimmerman didn't need a doctor?

                                                                                                                                    At the same time from the bond hearing one of the police officers stated he "questioned Zimmerman's statement that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager, saying it was "not consistent with the evidence we found."



                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                    Why not try watching admissible evidence instead of reading hearsay?
                                                                                                                                    Again, I don't have the kind of free time have.

                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                                                                    Why do you think Martin knew Zimmerman was armed?
                                                                                                                                    You ask the dumbest questions.

                                                                                                                                    One would imagine that if someone had a firearm in their waistband it would stick out like a sore thumb, no? Maybe it was covered up under a jacket.

                                                                                                                                    Then we have a statement from Zimmerman's father: "According to Zimmerman's father, during the struggle while Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Martin saw the gun his son was carrying"
                                                                                                                                    Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                    Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • Rochard
                                                                                                                                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                        • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                        • 75733
                                                                                                                                        #284
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                        I have a feeling that Zimmerman and Martin met up, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman told him that he was suspicious looking (or something like this perhaps even asking him why he was in the area). Martin says fuck it and tries to walk away and Zimmerman grabbed him by the hoodie to try to keep him from leaving and that was potentially the catalyst that started the fight.

                                                                                                                                        I don't know if Martin punched first or not. It could have been kind of a tussle where they were pushing and kind of wrestling. All it takes is one good shot to the face and most people will go down. After Martin got that shot off on Zimmerman he got on top of him and was working him over and that is when Zimmerman shot and killed him.

                                                                                                                                        Obviously, there were no witnesses that saw how the fight started or how the confrontation occurred so we can only go off of guesses. According to the testimony Zimmerman said that Martin came up to him as he was heading back to his truck while Martin's friend said that Zimmerman approached Martin and Martin stopped walking to confront him and ask him why he was following him. It is hard to say which is accurate.
                                                                                                                                        Very well could be the case. Martin has an interesting history and wasn't an angel by any means.

                                                                                                                                        But Martin isn't on trial here, Zimmerman is. And Zimmerman's history isn't greatest. To make it even more interesting, when arrested Zimmerman told police he has a "bad memory and takes medication for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder".
                                                                                                                                        Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                        Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • baddog
                                                                                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                            • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                            • 107089
                                                                                                                                            #285
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                            I have a feeling that Zimmerman and Martin met up, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman told him that he was suspicious looking (or something like this perhaps even asking him why he was in the area). Martin says fuck it and tries to walk away and Zimmerman grabbed him by the hoodie to try to keep him from leaving and that was potentially the catalyst that started the fight.

                                                                                                                                            wow
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                            Then we have a statement from Zimmerman's father: "According to Zimmerman's father, during the struggle while Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Martin saw the gun his son was carrying"
                                                                                                                                            It was raining, good chance everyone was wearing some type of jacket/sweater. And seeing the gun during the struggle would seem to hint that he was unaware until that point in time.

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • Jel
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • Feb 2007
                                                                                                                                                • 6904
                                                                                                                                                #286
                                                                                                                                                I just fucking pray 95% of the posters in this thread never sit on any jury I'm in front of.

                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • JOH
                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                    • 206
                                                                                                                                                    #287
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Captain Kawaii
                                                                                                                                                    Its best to let the facts and the evidence state the case.

                                                                                                                                                    I also remember that there were more than half a dozen break-ins in that neighborhood in the previous 6 months. According to witnesses and the police most of the break ins were perpetrated by people fitting Martin's description. I can easily understand why Zimmerman followed him. As anyone with a brain can do as well. What happened after that I do not know.
                                                                                                                                                    I agree! You are smart and not prejudiced for laying out factual stuff! People deny facts for a reason, to deny they could be wrong is a emotional judgement of Zimmerman!
                                                                                                                                                    Last edited by JOH; 06-30-2013, 02:22 PM. Reason: spelling
                                                                                                                                                    LOVE MY COUNTRY, USA!

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • theking
                                                                                                                                                        Nice Kitty
                                                                                                                                                        • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                        • 21053
                                                                                                                                                        #288
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by tony286
                                                                                                                                                        Then you werent following the rules. It wasnt play cowboy watch. It was watch and report to the police no more no less and dont follow them. They all follow the same program and I sat thru the class. We were having problems and it cut it in half. No one playing cops just people being aware and calling 911.
                                                                                                                                                        Wrong...sport...I followed all of the rules...including the rule to follow a stranger until he was welcomed into/entered a home...or until he left the community. We were instructed to call the cops only when a person acted suspiciously...and not to call just because a person was a stranger. We were instructed to avoid personal contact if at all possible. Clearly not all watches have identical rules to follow.
                                                                                                                                                        When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                                                                                                                        FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • L-Pink
                                                                                                                                                            working on my tan
                                                                                                                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                                                                                                                            • 39151
                                                                                                                                                            #289
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Jel
                                                                                                                                                            I just fucking pray 95% of the posters in this thread never sit on any jury I'm in front of.
                                                                                                                                                            You sound innocent to me.

                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                              • Bman
                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                                                • 1679
                                                                                                                                                                #290
                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                                                                                                You're nuts.
                                                                                                                                                                All he talks about is the Marines...a friend of the family has a retarded kid, all he talks about is being a cop.
                                                                                                                                                                ICQ 228211529

                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                  • tony286
                                                                                                                                                                    lurker
                                                                                                                                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                                    • 57021
                                                                                                                                                                    #291
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by theking
                                                                                                                                                                    Wrong...sport...I followed all of the rules...including the rule to follow a stranger until he was welcomed into/entered a home...or until he left the community. We were instructed to call the cops only when a person acted suspiciously...and not to call just because a person was a stranger. We were instructed to avoid personal contact if at all possible. Clearly not all watches have identical rules to follow.
                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.sheriffs.org/content/nsa-...-nw-tragedy-fl
                                                                                                                                                                    "The alleged action of a ?self-appointed neighborhood watchman? last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program,? stated NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.). ?NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.?

                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                      • theking
                                                                                                                                                                        Nice Kitty
                                                                                                                                                                        • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                                        • 21053
                                                                                                                                                                        #292
                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by tony286
                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.sheriffs.org/content/nsa-...-nw-tragedy-fl
                                                                                                                                                                        "The alleged action of a “self-appointed neighborhood watchman” last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program,” stated NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.). “NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.”
                                                                                                                                                                        There are Neighbor Hood Watches that are not registered with any organization. I am unaware if the watch that I was a member of was registered with any organization or not. Some neighbor hoods hire armed security guards and to my knowledge they do not register with any organization but some may.
                                                                                                                                                                        Last edited by theking; 06-30-2013, 03:36 PM.
                                                                                                                                                                        When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                                                                                                                                        FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                          • maxjohan
                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                            • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                                                            • 7219
                                                                                                                                                                            #293
                                                                                                                                                                            I wrote some stuff. But then, I got a message that I was suppose
                                                                                                                                                                            to push the back button.

                                                                                                                                                                            I guess, it wasn't meant to be.
                                                                                                                                                                            Last edited by maxjohan; 06-30-2013, 03:42 PM.
                                                                                                                                                                            I went from 100 to 313,000 satoshis in 2 days! Lots of daily freerolls...

                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                              • Jel
                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                • Feb 2007
                                                                                                                                                                                • 6904
                                                                                                                                                                                #294
                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by L-Pink
                                                                                                                                                                                You sound innocent to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                (not) forwarded to my (non-existent) lawyer for future jury selection cliff notes (even though I live in the UK)

                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jel
                                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2007
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 6904
                                                                                                                                                                                    #295
                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by theking
                                                                                                                                                                                    including the rule to follow a stranger until he was welcomed into/entered a home...or until he left the community.
                                                                                                                                                                                    I thought this sort of stuff only happened in books I read about off-the-wall towns Jack Reacher ends up in while hitch-hiking. I learn something new every day here

                                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                      • TheSquealer
                                                                                                                                                                                        Mayor of Thneedville
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Oct 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 26176
                                                                                                                                                                                        #296
                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by vdbucks
                                                                                                                                                                                        Why aren't you the star witness for the prosecution? Sure as shit seems like you had a front row seat to the entire incident.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Haha he went from "innocent fan of skittles, stalked and brutally murdered" to "kid is kind of an asshole and picked a fight with arm armed man and lost"
                                                                                                                                                                                        .
                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Rochard

                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                          • kane
                                                                                                                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 20684
                                                                                                                                                                                            #297
                                                                                                                                                                                            So, regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty, what are the odds that he will then get hit with a wrongful death suit by Martin's parents?

                                                                                                                                                                                            Could we have another OJ situation on our hands where he is found not guilty of the criminal charges then loses the civil case?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                              • theking
                                                                                                                                                                                                Nice Kitty
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 21053
                                                                                                                                                                                                #298
                                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                                                                                So, regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty, what are the odds that he will then get hit with a wrongful death suit by Martin's parents?

                                                                                                                                                                                                Could we have another OJ situation on our hands where he is found not guilty of the criminal charges then loses the civil case?
                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes...of course...but winning civil cases and collecting much...if any...of the amount awarded are two different stories.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Last edited by theking; 06-30-2013, 06:36 PM.
                                                                                                                                                                                                When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                                                                                                                                                                FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Rochard
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 75733
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #299
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by theking
                                                                                                                                                                                                    There are Neighbor Hood Watches that are not registered with any organization. I am unaware if the watch that I was a member of was registered with any organization or not. Some neighbor hoods hire armed security guards and to my knowledge they do not register with any organization but some may.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've never heard of a neighborhood watch that has squad cars and shot guns. Sounds like overkill to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • baddog
                                                                                                                                                                                                        So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 107089
                                                                                                                                                                                                        #300
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Jel
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I just fucking pray 95% of the posters in this thread never sit on any jury I'm in front of.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        No shit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                                                                                        So, regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty, what are the odds that he will then get hit with a wrongful death suit by Martin's parents?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Could we have another OJ situation on our hands where he is found not guilty of the criminal charges then loses the civil case?
                                                                                                                                                                                                        They have different burdens of proof; it is a safe bet that some atty will talk them into a civil suit which will likely be settled out of court

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

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