Is Marijuana More Dangerous Than Alcohol???

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  • D
    Confirmed User
    • Jan 2006
    • 7412

    #51
    50 arguments as to which of god's gifts is more dangerous.
    -D.
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    • cool1
      sex is good
      • Sep 2001
      • 24939

      #52
      quite a funny thread

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      • chelo - adultcopywriters
        Confirmed User
        • Feb 2008
        • 775

        #53
        Alcohol and Marijuana both have good and bad effects and we can discuss that all day. My conclusion on them is that no drug or substance or narcotic or whatever you want to call it, is good when used too much!

        Anything taken to the limits is bad but we're fucking humans ppl, so it's not bad at all to have a couple of beers or smokin a joint now and then, at leas that's what I think. And I'm absolutely sure marijuana is less dangerous than bloody cigarettes!

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        • CarlosTheGaucho
          Confirmed User
          • Oct 2005
          • 9570

          #54
          Originally posted by chelo - adultcopywriters
          Alcohol and Marijuana both have good and bad effects and we can discuss that all day. My conclusion on them is that no drug or substance or narcotic or whatever you want to call it, is good when used too much!

          Anything taken to the limits is bad but we're fucking humans ppl, so it's not bad at all to have a couple of beers or smokin a joint now and then, at leas that's what I think. And I'm absolutely sure marijuana is less dangerous than bloody cigarettes!
          Yet noone will ever try to make himself to be an ubermensch by saying he is a drunk or smoking a pack a day, yet every single pothead will always hassle with you holding the torch for the brave new stoned world.

          I don't care who will die earlier or whose health is more fucked up, I only care about who is more brain damaged and more incapable of communication when it's needed.
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          • chelo - adultcopywriters
            Confirmed User
            • Feb 2008
            • 775

            #55
            Yet noone will ever try to make himself to be an ubermensch by saying he is a drunk or smoking a pack a day, yet every single pothead will always hassle with you holding the torch for the brave new stoned world.
            I don't think every guy who smokes a joint is holding a torch for the brave new stoned world.

            I don't care who will die earlier or whose health is more fucked up, I only care about who is more brain damaged and more incapable of communication when it's needed.
            Can't be more right 'bout this one!

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            • AngusAl
              Confirmed User
              • Apr 2004
              • 319

              #56
              One thing that no one has mentioned is the amount of Alcohol related deaths every single day from drunk drivers http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm
              in 2001 over 75,000 deaths related to Alcohol alone and that number increases every years
              the deaths related to POT are not even rated they are so low

              These are PROVEN facts

              Pot is a far safer option according to the FDA of the two
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              • KILL_FRENZY
                Confirmed User
                • Aug 2006
                • 6184

                #57
                As a conclusion from this thread ...marijuana it's less dangerous than alcohol

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                • notoldschool
                  Confirmed User
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 5687

                  #58
                  Originally posted by CarlosTheGaucho
                  Yet noone will ever try to make himself to be an ubermensch by saying he is a drunk or smoking a pack a day, yet every single pothead will always hassle with you holding the torch for the brave new stoned world.

                  I don't care who will die earlier or whose health is more fucked up, I only care about who is more brain damaged and more incapable of communication when it's needed.
                  Give me a break. Most people that use marijuana DONT hassle anyone let alone even tell anyone because of the idiotic american stigmatism. Yet Every day I hear idiots saying how they are going out to get hammered off alchohol. Alot of them drive drunk as well. Ever listen to an Alcoholic mumble his way through a sentence? Believe me, people who get drunk are more disgusting, more dangerous, and more incoherant than any one person who smokes pot. Keep dreaming.
                  No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                  -- Learned Hand

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                  • Dirty F
                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                    • Jul 2001
                    • 59204

                    #59
                    Originally posted by AngusAl
                    One thing that no one has mentioned is the amount of Alcohol related deaths every single day from drunk drivers http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm
                    in 2001 over 75,000 deaths related to Alcohol alone and that number increases every years
                    the deaths related to POT are not even rated they are so low

                    These are PROVEN facts

                    Pot is a far safer option according to the FDA of the two
                    Yes, we all admit it, dont worry....pot is way safer. But the amount of idiots walking around like braindead morons every day because of weed is so big they arent even rated because it didnt fit on the paper.

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                    • notoldschool
                      Confirmed User
                      • Aug 2007
                      • 5687

                      #60
                      Originally posted by Dirty F
                      Yes, we all admit it, dont worry....pot is way safer. But the amount of idiots walking around like braindead morons every day because of weed is so big they arent even rated because it didnt fit on the paper.
                      Better than smelling like a drunk who hides bottles in his office desk drawer.
                      No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                      -- Learned Hand

                      http://www.bjpenn.com

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                      • Dirty F
                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                        • Jul 2001
                        • 59204

                        #61
                        Originally posted by notoldschool
                        Give me a break. Most people that use marijuana DONT hassle anyone let alone even tell anyone because of the idiotic american stigmatism. Yet Every day I hear idiots saying how they are going out to get hammered off alchohol. Alot of them drive drunk as well. Ever listen to an Alcoholic mumble his way through a sentence? Believe me, people who get drunk are more disgusting, more dangerous, and more incoherant than any one person who smokes pot. Keep dreaming.

                        You know junkie, you are right, drunk people are more dangerous. You wont hear my deny that but im just tired of junkies like you acting as is the whole world should smoke weed for some reason. Weed makes you dumb and act like an idiot. Its not good for anything cept for those few rare cases where someone is sick and it might help.
                        Stop acting as if its a plant directly sent by god. Its just a drugs. A drugs like many others drugs which fucks you up and can make you an addict....like it does with man weed users.

                        Now go smoke your magical herb but just stfu about it. Ok?

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                        • Dirty F
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Jul 2001
                          • 59204

                          #62
                          Originally posted by notoldschool
                          Better than smelling like a drunk who hides bottles in his office desk drawer.
                          No, not really no. But thats just your excuse because youre addict to weed. A booze addicted will say exactly the opposite.

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                          • notoldschool
                            Confirmed User
                            • Aug 2007
                            • 5687

                            #63
                            Originally posted by Dirty F
                            You know junkie, you are right, drunk people are more dangerous. You wont hear my deny that but im just tired of junkies like you acting as is the whole world should smoke weed for some reason. Weed makes you dumb and act like an idiot. Its not good for anything cept for those few rare cases where someone is sick and it might help.
                            Stop acting as if its a plant directly sent by god. Its just a drugs. A drugs like many others drugs which fucks you up and can make you an addict....like it does with man weed users.

                            Now go smoke your magical herb but just stfu about it. Ok?
                            Sorry but I dont think anyone should smoke weed, just those who choose to.
                            But it does make me sick to think that someone else can judge what I put in my body under misguided false rumors and allegations when there are far worse drugs that are socially acceptable. People in this country do NOT use commen sense when it comes to wasting all our money on criminalizing shit thats almost harmless while we cant get good health care. I dont give a flying fuck if anyone smokes week, but stop wasting my tax money throwing normal productive citizens in jail for smoking a natural plant with proven medicinal benefits.
                            No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                            -- Learned Hand

                            http://www.bjpenn.com

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                            • Dirty F
                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                              • Jul 2001
                              • 59204

                              #64
                              Originally posted by notoldschool
                              for smoking a natural plant with proven medicinal benefits.
                              Once again retard, alcohol is 100% natural as well.

                              You know what, why dont you go eat some deadly mushrooms. Its all natural man. Should be in the stores that shit.

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                              • notoldschool
                                Confirmed User
                                • Aug 2007
                                • 5687

                                #65
                                Originally posted by Dirty F
                                No, not really no. But thats just your excuse because youre addict to weed. A booze addicted will say exactly the opposite.
                                Actually I would say I am addicted to sugar at this point. But is it the goverments place to tell me to stop drinking sodas?
                                No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                -- Learned Hand

                                http://www.bjpenn.com

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                                • Dirty F
                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                  • Jul 2001
                                  • 59204

                                  #66
                                  Originally posted by notoldschool
                                  Actually I would say I am addicted to sugar at this point. But is it the goverments place to tell me to stop drinking sodas?
                                  If you end up in the hospital without insurance then yes.

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                                  • xmas13
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                                    • Dec 2004
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                                    #67
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                                    • Dirty F
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Jul 2001
                                      • 59204

                                      #68
                                      Originally posted by notoldschool
                                      Actually I would say I am addicted to sugar at this point. But is it the goverments place to tell me to stop drinking sodas?
                                      Oh and let me guess...you smoke everyday but you are not addicted...like every weed junkie out there

                                      Another one of those weed is magic things. Nobody seems to be addicted to it when you ask them. Noone.

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                                      • notoldschool
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Aug 2007
                                        • 5687

                                        #69
                                        Originally posted by Dirty F
                                        Once again retard, alcohol is 100% natural as well.

                                        You know what, why dont you go eat some deadly mushrooms. Its all natural man. Should be in the stores that shit.
                                        LOL.. that just proves my point. Why am i allowed to eat some crazy ass prescription drugs that ALTER my mind, most times in a negative way, because some jerk off who barely passed comp 2 gives me a prescription. Shit that should never get by the FDA is shoveled into our childrens mouth with the ok from the government, yet the goverment will raid a cancer patients house for a natural plant? I love run on sentences.
                                        No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                        -- Learned Hand

                                        http://www.bjpenn.com

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                                        • xmas13
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Dec 2004
                                          • 5176

                                          #70
                                          The plant is natural, smoking it is not, dumbass.
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                                          • TheDoc
                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                            • Jul 2001
                                            • 13827

                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by Dirty F
                                            Oh and let me guess...you smoke everyday but you are not addicted...like every weed junkie out there

                                            Another one of those weed is magic things. Nobody seems to be addicted to it when you ask them. Noone.
                                            Pot is not addictive at all.. not even a little. Well, maybe a little but it's more like working out, a way to live habit that gets ya. The cycle of getting up, doing it, just wanting to be lazy because you can.. You can walk away from Pot 1000 times over and never have one "withdrawal" problem like some people have with alcohol and most with drugs.

                                            Now, any person can get addicted to anything. I'm talking about a real addiction though, pot doesn't do that.
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                                            • Dirty F
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Jul 2001
                                              • 59204

                                              #72
                                              Whatever dude...listen, i dont care, smoke all you want, i have nothing against weed, alcohol, heroin or anything else. Do you want you want as long as you dont harm any others with it. But please for fuck sakes stop the miracle drug, plant from the earth bs. Please! Its a drug. And just like basically any other drug its not good for you. So just say: i dont like alcohol. I smoke weed instead. Alcohol is bad, maybe more than weed but being a weed addict isnt all that either.

                                              You know, if you say that you wont see me in your thread but attacking alcohol while you have the idea that you smoke some godly herb pisses me off. You smoke drugs.

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                                              • Dirty F
                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                • Jul 2001
                                                • 59204

                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by xmas13
                                                The plant is natural, smoking it is not, dumbass.


                                                Didnt even think of that haha.

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                                                • Dirty F
                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                  • Jul 2001
                                                  • 59204

                                                  #74
                                                  Originally posted by TheDoc
                                                  Pot is not addictive at all.. not even a little. Well, maybe a little but it's more like working out, a way to live habit that gets ya. The cycle of getting up, doing it, just wanting to be lazy because you can.. You can walk away from Pot 1000 times over and never have one "withdrawal" problem like some people have with alcohol and most with drugs.

                                                  Now, any person can get addicted to anything. I'm talking about a real addiction though, pot doesn't do that.


                                                  Thats the bigggggesst fucking bs ive heard in a long time. Omg, do you people smoke so much you completely lose touch with reality or what?

                                                  Dude ive seen SO fucking many weed addicted people in my life its not funny anymore.

                                                  Where exactly do you get this info from?

                                                  The magic herb from god book? Written by some dumb stoner?

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                                                  • AngusAl
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Apr 2004
                                                    • 319

                                                    #75
                                                    Originally posted by Dirty F
                                                    Yes, we all admit it, dont worry....pot is way safer. But the amount of idiots walking around like braindead morons every day because of weed is so big they arent even rated because it didnt fit on the paper.
                                                    I think you are just attacking people that smoke weed........ I don't understand why you have this chip on your shoulder but WE as pot smokers are not attacking anyone. And I'm not sure braindead morons is how you should refer to any ONE group of people. I mean George Bush does not smoke pot and he really is BRAINDEAD

                                                    You already admit that smoking pot is safer between both Alcohol and Pot so just leave it alone and go have a drink or whatever YOU do to calm down and have a great day
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                                                    • Dirty F
                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                      • Jul 2001
                                                      • 59204

                                                      #76
                                                      Originally posted by AngusAl
                                                      I think you are just attacking people that smoke weed........ I don't understand why you have this chip on your shoulder but WE as pot smokers are not attacking anyone. And I'm not sure braindead morons is how you should refer to any ONE group of people. I mean George Bush does not smoke pot and he really is BRAINDEAD

                                                      You already admit that smoking pot is safer between both Alcohol and Pot so just leave it alone and go have a drink or whatever YOU do to calm down and have a great day
                                                      I have nothing against smoking weed...jesus why dont you idiots understand what im trying to say. Im tired of weed users acting as if their drugs isnt drugs but something reaaaaaallly special thats made by god. Its fucking drugs...maybe less harmfull than lets say alcohol but its still drugs. Just fucking admit that, thats all im asking.

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                                                      • xmas13
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Dec 2004
                                                        • 5176

                                                        #77
                                                        Smoking weed is like a cult for a lot of people, it can't be argued, those who reject it are isolated, and there is a lot of pressure on enlisting new members. They worship Marijuana like others pray for Jesus Christ.
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                                                        • TheDoc
                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                          • Jul 2001
                                                          • 13827

                                                          #78
                                                          Well.. Maybe because I smoked, a lot, quit, and I'm not addicted? I'm a drinker too, I like my beer. I was well out of the Marines the first time I ever touched a drug.

                                                          And it's easy to prove really.. We can start with the 100000's of middle aged people that grew up in the 60's and 70's that had to quit during the 80's when drug testing kicked in. Or the millions and millions of people that do it once a year, a few times a month, or just once a week. Or you could just read what the entire medical profession that has studied it says.
                                                          Last edited by TheDoc; 02-20-2008, 02:20 PM.
                                                          ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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                                                          • sj_swank
                                                            Registered User
                                                            • Dec 2007
                                                            • 55

                                                            #79
                                                            Originally posted by Dirty F
                                                            Well i do know this:

                                                            Give someone 2 lines of coke and most people will hardly notice it but let someone puff twice from a joint and most of them will be fucked up for 2 hours.

                                                            Im not talking about how dangerous or addictive it is here. Just how strong it is and how it makes you feel.
                                                            fucked up for two hours from puffing a joint twice?? sweet! hook me up!
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                                                            • TheDoc
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Jul 2001
                                                              • 13827

                                                              #80
                                                              As you can clearly see the Pot Gods are with me.. My edit time on that last post was special.. Enough that I'm off for some fun.

                                                              Last edited by TheDoc : Today at 04:20 PM.
                                                              ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                                              It's all disambiguation

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                                                              • Dirty F
                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                • 59204

                                                                #81
                                                                Originally posted by TheDoc
                                                                Well.. Maybe because I smoked, a lot, quit, and I'm not addicted? I'm a drinker too, I like my beer. I was well out of the Marines the first time I ever touched a drug.

                                                                And it's easy to prove really.. We can start with the 100000's of middle aged people that grew up in the 60's and 70's that had to quit during the 80's when drug testing kicked in. Or the millions and millions of people that do it once a year, a few times a month, or just once a week. Or you could just read what the entire medical profession that has studied it says.
                                                                Listen we can discuss all we want...

                                                                Ive grown up between a lot of fucking people doing weed. I've seen plenty of addicts. You dont have to believe me but you should because i have no reason to lie.

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                                                                • Dirty F
                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                  • Jul 2001
                                                                  • 59204

                                                                  #82
                                                                  Originally posted by TheDoc
                                                                  As you can clearly see the Pot Gods are with me.. My edit time on that last post was special.. Enough that I'm off for some fun.

                                                                  Last edited by TheDoc : Today at 04:20 PM.
                                                                  Ok, thats kinda funny.

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                                                                  • Dirty F
                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                    • Jul 2001
                                                                    • 59204

                                                                    #83
                                                                    Originally posted by xmas13
                                                                    Smoking weed is like a cult for a lot of people, it can't be argued, those who reject it are isolated, and there is a lot of pressure on enlisting new members. They worship Marijuana like others pray for Jesus Christ.
                                                                    Exactly! And why? I truly dont care if they smoke weed but why the worshipping thing? You dont see that with any other drug. At least not on a large scale like this.

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                                                                    • TheDoc
                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                      • Jul 2001
                                                                      • 13827

                                                                      #84
                                                                      Originally posted by Dirty F
                                                                      Listen we can discuss all we want...

                                                                      Ive grown up between a lot of fucking people doing weed. I've seen plenty of addicts. You dont have to believe me but you should because i have no reason to lie.

                                                                      Just because a person "chooses" to be addicted doesn't mean they are. The persons life style and the repetitive nature of the habit is what you are seeing. Also, it's very hard to find "just a pot smoker", most also drink, smoke cigs, and do other drugs making it very hard for you to see what the real addiction is.

                                                                      I'm not saying pot isn't bad, any drug at any level is bad, and once anything is abused it's just going to harm you. But addictive, is something Pot isn't, it chemically does not have a single property that can do that.
                                                                      ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                                                      It's all disambiguation

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                                                                      • xmas13
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Dec 2004
                                                                        • 5176

                                                                        #85
                                                                        Drinking has nothing to do with smoking.

                                                                        Everyone drinks liquids, water, alcohol, juices etc.

                                                                        Drugs are drugs, drugs are not natural habits.

                                                                        Don't drink anything for a week and you will end up at emergency hospital.
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                                                                        • D
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Jan 2006
                                                                          • 7412

                                                                          #86
                                                                          Originally posted by xmas13
                                                                          The plant is natural, smoking it is not, dumbass.
                                                                          Curious: do you consider cooking unnatural?
                                                                          -D.
                                                                          ICQ: 202-96-31

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                                                                          • Dirty F
                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                            • Jul 2001
                                                                            • 59204

                                                                            #87
                                                                            Originally posted by TheDoc
                                                                            Just because a person "chooses" to be addicted doesn't mean they are. The persons life style and the repetitive nature of the habit is what you are seeing. Also, it's very hard to find "just a pot smoker", most also drink, smoke cigs, and do other drugs making it very hard for you to see what the real addiction is.

                                                                            I'm not saying pot isn't bad, any drug at any level is bad, and once anything is abused it's just going to harm you. But addictive, is something Pot isn't, it chemically does not have a single property that can do that.
                                                                            Yes but a mental addiction is still an addiction. People, especially potheads seem to ignore that.

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                                                                            • xmas13
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Dec 2004
                                                                              • 5176

                                                                              #88
                                                                              Originally posted by D
                                                                              Curious: do you consider cooking unnatural?
                                                                              Why always bring this nonsense? Don't you have any arguments at all?
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                                                                              • xmas13
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                                                                                • Dec 2004
                                                                                • 5176

                                                                                #89
                                                                                A non-smoker speaking to a smoker is like a non-believer speaking to a believer.
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                                                                                • xmas13
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                                                                                  #90
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                                                                                  • notoldschool
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                                                                                    • Aug 2007
                                                                                    • 5687

                                                                                    #91
                                                                                    Originally posted by D
                                                                                    Curious: do you consider cooking unnatural?
                                                                                    People like him will never get it. Im suprised you do actually.
                                                                                    No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                                                                    -- Learned Hand

                                                                                    http://www.bjpenn.com

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                                                                                    • IndustryTruth
                                                                                      Registered User
                                                                                      • Sep 2007
                                                                                      • 61

                                                                                      #92
                                                                                      God created grass- Man created booze- who do you trust?

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                                                                                      • Evil E
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                                                                                        • Apr 2005
                                                                                        • 3201

                                                                                        #93
                                                                                        Thanks for proving you are a trolling moran Dirty F. At least you get mag sig views.


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                                                                                        • D
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Jan 2006
                                                                                          • 7412

                                                                                          #94
                                                                                          Originally posted by xmas13
                                                                                          Why always bring this nonsense? Don't you have any arguments at all?
                                                                                          I wasn't aware that it was nonsense... and I'd think that you'd be able to infer my point from the question posed... but let me lay it out for you:

                                                                                          You said smoking is not natural. Yet the plant is natural; so is fire; so is breathing.

                                                                                          But, according to you, smoking - applying fire to the plant, and breathing in the result - is not natural.

                                                                                          By the same logic, I'd think you'd consider cooking unnatural.

                                                                                          After all, many foods are natural; so is fire; so is eating.

                                                                                          But I don't know what your philosophy is on the matter... for all I know, you could be a die-hard Hindu Jainist, or something of that order... so I'm asking you:

                                                                                          do you consider cooking unnatural?

                                                                                          Because it seems silly to consider one natural and the other not, imho.
                                                                                          Last edited by D; 02-20-2008, 03:14 PM.
                                                                                          -D.
                                                                                          ICQ: 202-96-31

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                                                                                          • trustedfriend
                                                                                            Registered User
                                                                                            • Aug 2007
                                                                                            • 81

                                                                                            #95
                                                                                            One of my close friends was using drugs and drinking much, few years ago. I'd say alcohol is still better in the case he lost too much weight because of drugs.
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                                                                                            • stev0
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                                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                                              • 6801

                                                                                              #96
                                                                                              Originally posted by notoldschool
                                                                                              http://chroniccorner.net/2008/Februa...-Alcohol-2.htm

                                                                                              please explain to me why we pay massive amounts of money to fight a losing battle against a plant from the earth and not a horrific drug like alcohol. Im baffled.
                                                                                              "horrific" lol.. pot and alcohol are both fun and should both be legal IMO. And enjoyed responsibly of course.
                                                                                              Last edited by stev0; 02-20-2008, 03:24 PM.

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                                                                                              • Meloman
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                                • 1540

                                                                                                #97
                                                                                                Frank, have you ever smoked a joint before? Even once?

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                                                                                                • Dirty F
                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                  • Jul 2001
                                                                                                  • 59204

                                                                                                  #98
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Meloman
                                                                                                  Frank, have you ever smoked a joint before? Even once?
                                                                                                  More than you could imagine.

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                                                                                                  • notoldschool
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                                                                                                    • Aug 2007
                                                                                                    • 5687

                                                                                                    #99
                                                                                                    Originally posted by stev0
                                                                                                    "horrific" lol.. pot and alcohol are both fun and should both be legal IMO. And enjoyed responsibly of course.
                                                                                                    Isnt that the way they speak of marijuana? Like it contains poison or something. Drinking a soda a day is worse for you than smoking a joint a day. Its just funny how people who get sloppy drunk act like people that smoke pot are junkies. LMAO!
                                                                                                    No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture.
                                                                                                    -- Learned Hand

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                                                                                                    • dav3
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • May 2007
                                                                                                      • 7348

                                                                                                      #100
                                                                                                      Let's outlaw poison ivy!
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