The Truth Behind Porn Billy, or How My Good Friend Screwed Me

looks like a nice spot..... ill take a seat here....

It sucks to get burned by people you trust. Unfortunately, it's something you always have to be on the lookout for in our industry... hopefully this will all somehow work out for the best for you - karma is definitely a bitch! :-)

uh oh.... saw alittle about this in the other thread... should be interesting to hear a reply

never trust foreigners

It's difficult to trust anyone.
Even old friends.

is it me or do you really bitch a lot about other people copying you? why don't you spend your spare time counting your money n shit instead of worrying about petty things?

Yes, it is you.

Rabbit is one of the nicest people I've met in this biz. Sucks to hear about your friend, but you are right, Karma is a bitch!

Stealing company information is petty? lol - dude, where's your helmet!?

I really wouldn't call that petty.
If it was just some guy somewhere that had copied his site in some way, maybe. But having had all the inside information and exploited that... is not petty.

Have him killed.

That is pretty bad. I've actually had major sponsors copy my site ideas and use the same traffic I used (since they knew which stuff of mine converted and didn't).

are we reading the same thread?

Guy works for Rabbit and was GIVEN access to all the info including financial info, link partners etc. He uses that info to start (very) similar site despite the agreement they had.

So if you aren't going to sue him you can either:
a) bitch and worry about it
b) move on and make even more money


I would've done b) in a heartbeat


you haven't met hateman I guess

And I thought only the layout was copied... damn that is some hardcore stuff. I feel you bro.

It's gotta be you, seriously
I've known him for over 4 years and can't say I have heard him bitch about anything - very easygoing, wise beyond his years and highly intelligent. It truly has to take the world to make him mad. Having someone steal your sweat and blood of 6+ years from under your nose with the false pretenses that he is a friend and trustworthy - I would say he's entitled to have his bitch complaint.

Could you have given him a better deal that wouldn't of motivated him to go on his own? Learning the business and then deciding to go on your own I dont consider that stealing. Noncompete's really dont stick, you really cant stop someone from earning a living.

it happens in every industry on this planet, employee learns everything from you and then one day takes all the knowledge and contacts he's made and goes out on his own and becomes the competition.

No. Your point?

Yep in fact Merill Lynch sued a broker who took his clients. The court ruled if it wasnt for that brokers actions Merill wouldnt have had those clients so they were his to take.

And that's your choice, of course. And this probably would have stayed quiet had PornBilly not gone and done something stupid like advertise in a thread of mine. I mean, that's just poking a stick at a sleeping rabbit. :P

If you get screwed over and don't feel it's necessary to stand up and say something about it, that's fine. That says a lot about you and the way you operate--and that isn't meant to be negative. However, I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for standing up for themselves, especially if there's just cause. Personally, I think this little incident more than qualifies.

i know this is horrible to say in light of this thread, but that is a ROCKIN install of wordpress he is using

nice mods!

Though this shit happens in all industries, it's especially prevalent in porn due to the fact that one can enter with almost no capital and zero education. That produces a lot of leeches, copycats and hangers-on, not to mention low mentality schmucks who seem to think that it's a bigger crime to complain about being fucked, than it is to defy a signed non-compete agreement.

Yeh he is a prick for doing that and I feel sorry for you. I would have done exactly the same thing, but not too a friend... That is pretty slack. Ah well, count your chips and move on.

Its stories like this which is exactly why I don't hire for anything seo or ppc related. I've limited my growth because of it, but I'd rather not end up being on the receiving end of a story like this either. I'm sorry this happened.
WG

It is stories like this that makes me really appreciate the relationship I have with goodgirl.

With a name like goodgirl, how can you go wrong? ;)

good point

That sucks man, hopefully karma will be swift for once.

NosMo

If he makes sales, no one will stop doing business with him, or even consider it. It's sad when people screw you.

Lloyd, did i see you taking pics of yourself with guys/girls at the awards last night? Was that you standing up by the stage?

"About 6 months later, Marc came back to Montreal and during our lunch he told me he had started PornBilly.com with the help of his cousins."

Wow! What did you say to him, right then and there?
Contracts, anymore mean nothing!

Sad he did this to you, just shows you...he isn't as smart as you think he is, he couldn't even come up with something that wasn't copied.

Was it a handsome man?

The email below the facts was sent to Mantas a couple of hours before he posted this thread. Obviously it had no impact on him since he still seems determined to take it out personally on Marc, as well as professionally discrediting me (Nic, aka Tiger) , Jorj, and most importantly Pornbilly.

The facts:

1- Pornbilly is in no way copied from any other site, it has its own copyrighted content and team.
2- Marc did not breach any non-compete, non-solicitation and/or non disclosure agreement. The contract clearly states it and I challenge Mantas to prove otherwise. We have proof of the contract and willing to come forward with it if necessary.
3- Marc is not hiding behind his "cousins". Jorj and me are friends of Marc, we take decisions as a team, and we will be introducing ourselves at upcoming shows.
4- Marc did not use any of Mantas' inside information in any manner to build Pornbilly, all of us have been involved in the industry since January 2003 starting with yahoo adult groups and Pornodose.com, which was originally a review site way before Mantas launched rabbitsreviews.
5- It would have been impossible for Mantas to sue since Marc did not breach any contract agreement. Again, I challenge Mantas to prove otherwise.
6- Marc was forced (for personal reasons) to leave Montreal after working 2 months for Mantas and I, after making sure there was no breach of agreement, convinced Marc to join me and Jorj on board the pornbilly project.
7- To prove his honesty and friendship, Marc came forward to Mantas discussing his involvement in Pornbilly.
8- Pornbilly.com was purchased by myself (along with many other domain names) without Marc's knowledge and the fact that it was purchased while Marc was still working with Mantas was purely coincidental.

Since Mantas clearly does not want to believe any of the facts above, I can only conclude that he is using his personal grudge against Marc in unfair and unethical business practices and I hope that this will stop as soon as possible for both our sakes.

Email:
____________

Hello Mantas,

This message has been sitting in my draft since july of 2007. I thought you would cool down to a "business as usual" state and I wouldn't have to send it. Apparently not. After reading your latest comments on GFY, I've decided to go ahead and send it your way today.

So here it is:

I am Marc?s partner and co-founder of PornBilly. I?m writing this mail because I?ve been informed by many webmasters that you are spreading the negative word concerning Marc and our site. Many sources have told us that you?ve been saying that Marc worked for you, learned everything and stole your inside information to open PornBilly. With that story you mean to discourage both webmasters and sponsors from dealing with us. I decided to intervene hoping that I could clear a few things out and maybe put things on the good track between us as companies and especially between you and Marc as old friends.

The matter of the fact is that I started this project long before Marc started working with you and when Marc had to leave Montreal, he was very reluctant to come on board as he did not want you to think that he betrayed your trust. It took me a lot of convincing to get him to accept, and even then, he still insisted that he should tell you about it because your friendship matters to him and he didn?t want you to hear it from someone else. He was very relieved when he told you and thought that you took it well. But apparently he was wrong. By reacting this way, you?re leading us to believe that you?re taking this matter very personally and we?re sorry you feel this way, but we?re still hoping that you?d understand that we (especially Marc) have nothing personal against you.

On a business level, you have the right to consider us as competitors (even though we think that joining forces would be much more beneficial to both of us). However, you have to rethink the story you?re using against us in the industry because it lacks truthfulness. I want to remind you that we started in this business a long time ago (since the yahoo groups) and we went on to launch PornoDose before you started RabbitsReviews. So we pretty well know the tricks and trades of the industry and we don?t need to learn it from you. In this perspective, let me assure you that Marc had and still has no intentions of stealing or using any information he got at your company. There?s no valuable information that we could use in the first place. The only valuable thing is the knowledge Marc put in your company during the 2 months he was there. So on a professional level, we?re still playing fair and we expect you to play fair too.

Now that you know all the facts, I truly hope that things will pick up between us and that one day you?ll see the potential of us working together, not against each others.

Regards,
Nic
__________

Nic (aka Tiger) - ICQ 472-798-329

I had this same shit happen to me.

I had a business partner in a brick and mortar company. When 911 happened it seriously negatively effected our business. I got out and into selling porn. He stuck with the business thinking it would be better without the 2nd mouth to feed. I told him he should get out now or he will lose a ton of money. He didn't and lost a ton of money.

Eventually I started making real money... say 10K a month and he figured it was just a fluke. At the same time he was loosing about $3K a month. Then I started making $20K... He realized he should have followed me.

He started working with me. There was a huge pie out there and I told him he needed to do what I do, just for different sponsors then I do it for. We did some stuff together to get him started. It made money right away. He got greedy and decided to completely 100% copy my network!

If I had a domain universalporn.com he bought one like universalporno.com and basically duplicated my site and then sought out my same linking partners. I was shocked. WTF? He actually thought he'd take like $10K a month over to him and just tell me to fuck off.

Karma is a bitch... When he was nearing his last days in our old business he got hit by a bus. A BUS! It broke his back, leg and pelvis. He lingered on for a few months and eventually died in his sleep when they sent him home.

Now I don't think that Marc should be hit by a bus... But if it happened, it wouldn't surprise me.

harsh...

A great saying - if you want to open a liquor store in Arkansas..

It does sound like he breached the non-compete if nothing else?

There's a great saying that suits this thread,
"Don't innovate! Imitate!" ;)

Although innovation has the potential to make loads of money, imitating what is already a success is definitely the safer bet.

Sounds to me like Rabbit is taking things a bit to personally. It's business, not woth the hazzle to make a big deal about it.

I don't think non-compete contracts hold up in court anywhere, most western countries have laws protecting people to work in what they want (work at will, right to work). People that are skilled at something are not legally bound to only work for 1 company or if they leave go do something they're not skilled at, no matter what they sign.

Well, that sucks.

I'd never start such a polite thread if that happened to me though.

Seriously never let anyone see ALL the stuff.

Guy sees the workflow ? Don't let him get even near financials. Gal knows all the sponsors ? She's banned from the site designing.

Cut your business into a few pieces, and hold the keys. Otherwise, you're really askin for it. What you did for this guy people do for their sons for the love of Christ.

this is exactly why i have trust issues

That's fucked up, if true. Lesson learned - don't give out business info that can be used against you to anyone. This happens in all types of businesses.

Both are good sites though and I have seen many blatant rip off sites of Rabbit's using the same type of script and design and honestly Porn Billy doesn't look like a copy of Rabbit's site. Now, beyond the design and modified wordpress script he is using, I can't tell how much info he might of used for seo and advertising. Both sites rate high in search engines, coincidence???

What exactly did he do for you when he worked for you?

yes yes yes

I am sorry this has happened to you Rabbit

Like my father always said "Don't even trust your own father".

May this be a lesson to you. I'm not saying this to bash you, i am really sorry that that prick did something like that, however you have to understand that it's every man for himself in this world. I wouldn't trust ANYONE even my girlfriend doesn't get access to anything i do, especially with the business we are in. Some will call me paranoid, untill they get stabbed in the back and then they'll envy me.

He left it on the short bus. Luckily his mittens were sewn to his sleeves, so he still has them.

This is going to get fugly!

Nasty stuff. It's ironic, Rabbit, how someone who ripped US both off (and many other review sites) posted in this thread, huh?

Rabbit, I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you. It looks like he at the least broke the non-compete clause, but I'm not a lawyer. We all know you're the real Rabbit, at least

Who's that?