Do you think this is OK or not? (video of Watertown home raid)

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  • Robbie
    Leaner, Meaner, Faster
    • Aug 2002
    • 20960
    #101
    Originally posted by dyna mo
    this is not correct at all.

    japan went to russia to try for a conditional surrender, russia blew them off because of the alliance we had with russia, japs tried to weasle away from being the aggressors in the pacific, thatand their aggression is why we demanded unconditional surrender.


    our generals never ever said the war was over until that surrender was signed. what they did say was that the japanese had lost every battle but still had not and would not surrender.
    You're wrong. I watched a special on Showtime just a few weeks ago showing archived footage of the Generals in their own words saying that the bomb was not needed.
    Truman wanted to drop it to prove a point.

    Do some research. Don't believe what we were taught in school about it.
    -Robbie
    ClaudiaMarie.Com

      Comment

      • theking
        Nice Kitty
        • Sep 2002
        • 21053
        #102
        Originally posted by Robbie
        If they did that to me and my family I'd get the most famous lawyer in the country and sue every one of those agencies involved for millions of dollars. Especially with that video footage right there as evidence.
        Evidence of...just what exactly...Police Officers doing a job in the way they are trained to do?
        When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

        FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

          Comment

          • Captain Kawaii
            So Fucking Banned
            • Oct 2007
            • 6748
            #103
            Originally posted by _Richard_
            while we arm chair debate?

            why do we have any laws at all? why was there these fine laws saying 'police are unable to enter a residence without a warrant'?

            obviously the logic of 'if you have nothing to hide' applied just the same when the law was written as it does today

            if it was so important, why does the law exist.
            Land of Laws? Laughable. US is a country of expediences and necessities these days.

              Comment

              • theking
                Nice Kitty
                • Sep 2002
                • 21053
                #104
                Originally posted by Robbie
                You're wrong. I watched a special on Showtime just a few weeks ago showing archived footage of the Generals in their own words saying that the bomb was not needed.
                Truman wanted to drop it to prove a point.

                Do some research. Don't believe what we were taught in school about it.
                The Japanese were showing zero signs of surrendering at the time the bomb was dropped and we were preparing to invade Japan and up to 1,000,000 casualties was predicted for us and millions more for the Japanese. The bomb saved lives and BTW the A Bomb did not kill as many people as our fire bombings had killed in Japan and in Germany.
                When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                  Comment

                  • Captain Kawaii
                    So Fucking Banned
                    • Oct 2007
                    • 6748
                    #105
                    Originally posted by theking
                    The Japanese were showing zero signs of surrendering at the time the bomb was dropped and we were preparing to invade Japan and up to 1,000,000 casualties was predicted for us and millions more for the Japanese. The bomb saved lives and BTW the A Bomb did not kill as many people as our fire bombings had killed in Japan and in Germany.
                    We can always count on US leadership for one despicable act after another. And people wonder why we are the object of attacks for so long.

                    Russian ships have moved into Iranian southern ports. China has taken off the gloves. Obama has given Israel the greenlight for Iran. Night everyone.

                      Comment

                      • DWB
                        Registered User
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 31779
                        #106
                        If nukes can save lives and end wars, why were they never used again? Funny how that works.

                        "Saving" 1,000,000 blood thirsty American soldiers was not worth what was done to a few hundred thousand innocent civilians in Japan. You are completely delusional and totally propagandized to even try to justify that.

                        Dying is an occupational hazard when you're a soldier. It should not be when you're a civilian.

                        Some of you are honestly disgusting human beings, and I use the term "human beings" loosely.

                          Comment

                          • dyna mo
                            just a fucking jerk
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 68184
                            #107
                            Originally posted by Robbie
                            You're wrong. I watched a special on Showtime just a few weeks ago showing archived footage of the Generals in their own words saying that the bomb was not needed.
                            Truman wanted to drop it to prove a point.

                            Do some research. Don't believe what we were taught in school about it.
                            lol, you watch a showtime special and tell me to do research?

                            please, i have a degree in military history from one of the top colleges on the planet and you're suggesting a showtime television show is more valid?

                            here, i don't read japanese and i am sure you don't either, but here's the emporer's words in english re: the bomb

                            On the following morning, August 8, Foreign Minister Togo Shigenori went to the imperial palace for an audience with the emperor. According to Asada, using the American and British broadcasts ?to buttress his case,? Togo urged the emperor to agree to end the war as quickly as possible ?on condition, of course, that the emperor system be retained.? Hirohito concurred and replied:

                            Now that such a new weapon has appeared, it has become less and less possible to continue the war. We must not miss a chance to terminate the war by bargaining [with the Allied powers, Asada adds] for more favorable conditions now. Besides, however much we consult about [surrender, Asada adds] terms we desire, we shall not be able to come to an agreement. So my wish is to make such arrangements as will end the war as soon as possible.


                            russia THEN invaded manchuria day later

                            i can really go on & on with reams of facts on this.

                            a direct nuclear assault on the mainland v. an indirect assault on manchuria and showtime thinks the bomb didn't amount to anything-

                            don't let revisionist history shows on television try and change history for tv ratings.

                            also, read truman's autobiography, he goes into detail about his decision.

                              Comment

                              • dyna mo
                                just a fucking jerk
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 68184
                                #108
                                Originally posted by DWB
                                If nukes can save lives and end wars, why were they never used again? Funny how that works.

                                "Saving" 1,000,000 blood thirsty American soldiers was not worth what was done to a few hundred thousand innocent civilians in Japan. You are completely delusional and totally propagandized to even try to justify that.

                                Dying is an occupational hazard when you're a soldier. It should not be when you're a civilian.

                                Some of you are honestly disgusting human beings, and I use the term "human beings" loosely.
                                that's not what happened. hindsight is 20-20, you are making the honest mistake junior historians make, you are looking at the past through rose colored glasses of the current.

                                proper recounting of history requires you look at the events in the light of the times of the event. and the fact is civilian targets were fair game in ww2. we tried it the other way when we 1st entered the war, but that didn't work. we didn't start it, we weren't the only ones, all sides did it.

                                  Comment

                                  • GAH
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Jul 2010
                                    • 88
                                    #109
                                    I have to congratulate the US forces for their speedy apprehension of those two terrorists, that having surveillance cameras everywhere is a great thing, however intrusive it seems to be. To be able to identify those two within 24 hours was brilliant. Lessons have to be learnt each time anything like this happens, lots of good and bad things can be worked on. What saddened me after the final terrorist was captured, was the world news coverage showing thousands [of mainly youngsters] out on the street, shouting USA, USA, like it was a Ryder Cup victory (remember them?!), turning a grave situation into it a carnival atmosphere, police cars roaming, honking their horns in appreciation. This also seemed to be explained by the fact it was 420 day, they were all stoned ? cops too.

                                    The American reaction to such events tends to be different from anywhere else around the world, the National Guard on the streets, a no-fly zone, that every senator claimed their post contained Ricin, Louisiana closed down highways and harbours because someone accidentally left a briefcase near a post office. Obama desperate to appear on tv to petrify a nation as if aliens had landed and nuked New York. After Twin Towers idiot Bush told the word America was at war. The whole point of terrorism is to terrify, and America is brilliant at being that. And having most of the population armed didn't do much good, that should shut a lot of pro-gunners up.

                                    Those who read that British ex-Prime Minister Thatcher died the other week, should note how she reacted when the IRA attempted to kill her in 1994, they blew up the hotel, five died, many injured, and she was very lucky to escape the blast. Next morning, 9.30am, she strode out and acted as if nothing had happened. Again, when the IRA bombed the City of London, enormous destruction, yet 36 hours later the whole area was opened for business as usual. These things need to be played down when they can, or the terrorists really are winning [in America].

                                    Treat Tsarnaev as a criminal, not a terrorist, throw him in with the rapists, killers and not very nice people, don't make him special, by putting him in a quasii-prisoner of war detention camp, or killing him and making him and his brother martyrs.

                                      Comment

                                      • Relentless
                                        www.EngineFood.com
                                        • Aug 2006
                                        • 5697
                                        #110
                                        Robbie,

                                        Stick to your arguments about the modern police state, I disagree with you about them but they do have some validity. Your arguments about how WWII ended are totally invalid (even if you saw them in a Showtime special), anyone who has done a fair amount of reading about the war, lived through it or spoken extensively with people who did has come away with the same conclusion.... The bombs were horrific weapons and that is precisely why they ended the war years before it would have ended otherwise.

                                        Germany was in the process of developing equally sinister weapons including long range gas weapons, nukes and biological weapons. Japan had zero interest in surrender and Germany was using Japan as a buffer to buy time for their R&D. It almost worked. They made the tragic mistake of losing many of the worlds best scientists simply because they happened to be Jews and that is primarily the reason we reached the nuclear age before Germany did. That lead to the quick surrender of Japan, isolation of Germany and end of the war.

                                        Killing 60,000 people at once in a big blast is much better than killing hundreds of thousands via hand to hand combat and drowning over the course of a few years. The same logic applies to Watertown. Inconveniencing a whole town for a day is far better than cleaning up body parts for the next several years. The message is simple. Bomb anything and we will capture or kill you in 48 hours. It's a much better message than the one we used to use, bomb something and we will invade a country that had nothing to do with it.


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                                          Comment

                                          • xholly
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Jan 2009
                                            • 817
                                            #111
                                            Originally posted by dyna mo
                                            that's not what happened. hindsight is 20-20, you are making the honest mistake junior historians make, you are looking at the past through rose colored glasses of the current.

                                            proper recounting of history requires you look at the events in the light of the times of the event. and the fact is civilian targets were fair game in ww2. we tried it the other way when we 1st entered the war, but that didn't work. we didn't start it, we weren't the only ones, all sides did it.
                                            Just curious if you have seen the series by Nial Ferguson "war of the worlds"? its a 6 part series so is a little long but since you have a degree in military history and have an interest in it I wonder what you make of it, he goes over many of your points. If you haven't seen it It's a good watch on the nature of the 20th century conflicts.

                                            heres a link to the youtube playlist if your looking for something to watch.

                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5AbQ...6CE7D51E1F77B5

                                              Comment

                                              • slapass
                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                • Nov 2002
                                                • 14625
                                                #112
                                                Originally posted by GAH
                                                I have to congratulate the US forces for their speedy apprehension of those two terrorists, that having surveillance cameras everywhere is a great thing, however intrusive it seems to be. To be able to identify those two within 24 hours was brilliant. Lessons have to be learnt each time anything like this happens, lots of good and bad things can be worked on. What saddened me after the final terrorist was captured, was the world news coverage showing thousands [of mainly youngsters] out on the street, shouting USA, USA, like it was a Ryder Cup victory (remember them?!), turning a grave situation into it a carnival atmosphere, police cars roaming, honking their horns in appreciation. This also seemed to be explained by the fact it was 420 day, they were all stoned ? cops too.

                                                The American reaction to such events tends to be different from anywhere else around the world, the National Guard on the streets, a no-fly zone, that every senator claimed their post contained Ricin, Louisiana closed down highways and harbours because someone accidentally left a briefcase near a post office. Obama desperate to appear on tv to petrify a nation as if aliens had landed and nuked New York. After Twin Towers idiot Bush told the word America was at war. The whole point of terrorism is to terrify, and America is brilliant at being that. And having most of the population armed didn't do much good, that should shut a lot of pro-gunners up.

                                                Those who read that British ex-Prime Minister Thatcher died the other week, should note how she reacted when the IRA attempted to kill her in 1994, they blew up the hotel, five died, many injured, and she was very lucky to escape the blast. Next morning, 9.30am, she strode out and acted as if nothing had happened. Again, when the IRA bombed the City of London, enormous destruction, yet 36 hours later the whole area was opened for business as usual. These things need to be played down when they can, or the terrorists really are winning [in America].

                                                Treat Tsarnaev as a criminal, not a terrorist, throw him in with the rapists, killers and not very nice people, don't make him special, by putting him in a quasii-prisoner of war detention camp, or killing him and making him and his brother martyrs.
                                                I agree with this. Every news station was all over this for the next few days and still is. The UK had a ban on terrorist news. Sort of hurts that freedom of speech thing but overall it is a great idea. Why let the next nutbag get all jonesed over how he is going to be famous.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • tony286
                                                    lurker
                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                    • 57021
                                                    #113
                                                    Originally posted by theking
                                                    The Japanese were showing zero signs of surrendering at the time the bomb was dropped and we were preparing to invade Japan and up to 1,000,000 casualties was predicted for us and millions more for the Japanese. The bomb saved lives and BTW the A Bomb did not kill as many people as our fire bombings had killed in Japan and in Germany.
                                                    Robbie is right, I'm learning about it in history class right now. They knew Japan was going to fold but Truman wanted to bomb them anyway to send a message to Stalin.
                                                    Last edited by tony286; 04-23-2013, 03:46 AM.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • tony286
                                                        lurker
                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                        • 57021
                                                        #114
                                                        I dont know, it really is the best way to handle the situation. Stop everything like after 911, they grounded all planes very quickly so nothing was in the sky.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • grumpy
                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                            • Jan 2002
                                                            • 9870
                                                            #115
                                                            Originally posted by DWB


                                                            Do you find how they treat the residents acceptable or disturbing?

                                                            If you think it is acceptable, do you also think it is acceptable to enter their home without a warrant?
                                                            Yes and yes
                                                            Don't let greediness blur your vision | You gotta let some shit slide
                                                            icq - 441-456-888

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Jel
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Feb 2007
                                                                • 6904
                                                                #116
                                                                Originally posted by GAH
                                                                I have to congratulate the US forces for their speedy apprehension of those two terrorists, that having surveillance cameras everywhere is a great thing, however intrusive it seems to be. To be able to identify those two within 24 hours was brilliant. Lessons have to be learnt each time anything like this happens, lots of good and bad things can be worked on. What saddened me after the final terrorist was captured, was the world news coverage showing thousands [of mainly youngsters] out on the street, shouting USA, USA, like it was a Ryder Cup victory (remember them?!), turning a grave situation into it a carnival atmosphere, police cars roaming, honking their horns in appreciation. This also seemed to be explained by the fact it was 420 day, they were all stoned ? cops too.

                                                                The American reaction to such events tends to be different from anywhere else around the world, the National Guard on the streets, a no-fly zone, that every senator claimed their post contained Ricin, Louisiana closed down highways and harbours because someone accidentally left a briefcase near a post office. Obama desperate to appear on tv to petrify a nation as if aliens had landed and nuked New York. After Twin Towers idiot Bush told the word America was at war. The whole point of terrorism is to terrify, and America is brilliant at being that. And having most of the population armed didn't do much good, that should shut a lot of pro-gunners up.

                                                                Those who read that British ex-Prime Minister Thatcher died the other week, should note how she reacted when the IRA attempted to kill her in 1994, they blew up the hotel, five died, many injured, and she was very lucky to escape the blast. Next morning, 9.30am, she strode out and acted as if nothing had happened. Again, when the IRA bombed the City of London, enormous destruction, yet 36 hours later the whole area was opened for business as usual. These things need to be played down when they can, or the terrorists really are winning [in America].

                                                                Treat Tsarnaev as a criminal, not a terrorist, throw him in with the rapists, killers and not very nice people, don't make him special, by putting him in a quasii-prisoner of war detention camp, or killing him and making him and his brother martyrs.
                                                                Good post, and really does explain the 'problem' I have with people here saying it's ok, it's just the police's job etc. I'm not from the US (UK here) so haven't experienced the environment that makes it natural for me to roll over and believe that patting down civilians and barking at them when they are clearly NOT the suspects the police are looking for is perfectly acceptable behaviour. 'rolling over' being my interpretation, based on what I'd put up with, not an insult to those with a different POV.

                                                                Maybe that's why I was called on being a keyboard 'tough guy' for stating how I see it, but yeah, environment sets your belief system, and having the police here in the UK act the way they do sometimes is bad enough that it gets my back right up, hence my 'shock' at seeing the procedure in that video, and inability to grasp why some people think it's acceptable.

                                                                Either way there's fuck all I can do about a past event, and I believe that everyone is free to believe what they choose to, so I'm gonna practice what I preach - or attempt to anyway, and read but not post

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • DWB
                                                                    Registered User
                                                                    • Jul 2003
                                                                    • 31779
                                                                    #117
                                                                    Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                    that's not what happened. hindsight is 20-20, you are making the honest mistake junior historians make, you are looking at the past through rose colored glasses of the current.

                                                                    proper recounting of history requires you look at the events in the light of the times of the event. and the fact is civilian targets were fair game in ww2. we tried it the other way when we 1st entered the war, but that didn't work. we didn't start it, we weren't the only ones, all sides did it.
                                                                    None of that makes it acceptable. Dropping atomic bombs on civilians is not acceptable no matter how someone tries to spin it or write it in the history books.

                                                                    Man will always find a way to justify his horrific actions and senseless murder of others.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • DWB
                                                                        Registered User
                                                                        • Jul 2003
                                                                        • 31779
                                                                        #118
                                                                        Originally posted by GAH
                                                                        I have to congratulate the US forces for their speedy apprehension of those two terrorists, that having surveillance cameras everywhere is a great thing, however intrusive it seems to be. To be able to identify those two within 24 hours was brilliant. Lessons have to be learnt each time anything like this happens, lots of good and bad things can be worked on. What saddened me after the final terrorist was captured, was the world news coverage showing thousands [of mainly youngsters] out on the street, shouting USA, USA, like it was a Ryder Cup victory (remember them?!), turning a grave situation into it a carnival atmosphere, police cars roaming, honking their horns in appreciation. This also seemed to be explained by the fact it was 420 day, they were all stoned ? cops too.

                                                                        The American reaction to such events tends to be different from anywhere else around the world, the National Guard on the streets, a no-fly zone, that every senator claimed their post contained Ricin, Louisiana closed down highways and harbours because someone accidentally left a briefcase near a post office. Obama desperate to appear on tv to petrify a nation as if aliens had landed and nuked New York. After Twin Towers idiot Bush told the word America was at war. The whole point of terrorism is to terrify, and America is brilliant at being that. And having most of the population armed didn't do much good, that should shut a lot of pro-gunners up.

                                                                        Those who read that British ex-Prime Minister Thatcher died the other week, should note how she reacted when the IRA attempted to kill her in 1994, they blew up the hotel, five died, many injured, and she was very lucky to escape the blast. Next morning, 9.30am, she strode out and acted as if nothing had happened. Again, when the IRA bombed the City of London, enormous destruction, yet 36 hours later the whole area was opened for business as usual. These things need to be played down when they can, or the terrorists really are winning [in America].

                                                                        Treat Tsarnaev as a criminal, not a terrorist, throw him in with the rapists, killers and not very nice people, don't make him special, by putting him in a quasii-prisoner of war detention camp, or killing him and making him and his brother martyrs.
                                                                        Solid post.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • dyna mo
                                                                            just a fucking jerk
                                                                            • Dec 2008
                                                                            • 68184
                                                                            #119
                                                                            Originally posted by xholly
                                                                            Just curious if you have seen the series by Nial Ferguson "war of the worlds"? its a 6 part series so is a little long but since you have a degree in military history and have an interest in it I wonder what you make of it, he goes over many of your points. If you haven't seen it It's a good watch on the nature of the 20th century conflicts.

                                                                            heres a link to the youtube playlist if your looking for something to watch.

                                                                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5AbQ...6CE7D51E1F77B5

                                                                            i will certainly tune in to this, thank you, no i have not seen it.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • dyna mo
                                                                                just a fucking jerk
                                                                                • Dec 2008
                                                                                • 68184
                                                                                #120
                                                                                there is a lot of controversy right now surrounding this view on the surrender.

                                                                                did you know who came up with this view? oliver stone.

                                                                                Not in this writer?s lifetime has a book challenging the central accepted tenets of U.S. history received so much publicity as Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick?s The Untold History of the United States,....

                                                                                One can hear a full exposition of that thesis in Showtime?s ?Episode 3: The Bomb.? Their central conclusion is that the real reason for the Japanese surrender is that, virtually simultaneous with the dropping of the second atomic bomb on Nagasaki on August 9, 1945, the Soviet Union broke its neutrality treaty with Japan that had been observed by both parties throughout the war and began a massive attack on Japanese forces in Manchuria. At this point, the Japanese knew that the game was up. A subordinate argument is that the atomic bombs then didn?t even serve a military purpose and that their use was opposed by various key military and political leaders in the U.S. government at the time and later. The contemplated costly invasion of the Japanese mainland would not have been necessary. The main reason the bombs were dropped, per Stone and Kuznick, was as a signal from the militarists in our government to the Soviet Union that we would not hesitate to use this new terror weapon to achieve our military and political objectives. It was, in effect, our firing of the first shot in the Cold War. Still more subordinate is the authors? claim that if only Franklin Roosevelt?s hugely popular Vice President during his third term of office (1940-44), Henry Wallace, had not been replaced by Harry Truman, those unnecessary and reprehensible bombs would not have been dropped and, furthermore, there would have been no Cold War.

                                                                                In support of their main conclusion, the authors point out that horrific bombing of Japanese cities, including Tokyo, had been going on for months causing massive civilian casualties. The fact that the Japanese government did not react in any way after the Hiroshima attack shows that they regarded it as simply more of the same, only a bit worse. Only the day after the second bomb was dropped?which also was the day after the Soviet entry into the war?did the Japanese send out a radio message suggesting that they were ready to surrender.
                                                                                as i pointed out above, the emperor DID react to the bomb, in fact, he said enough, we will sign the surrender
                                                                                Last edited by dyna mo; 04-23-2013, 06:27 AM.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • dyna mo
                                                                                    just a fucking jerk
                                                                                    • Dec 2008
                                                                                    • 68184
                                                                                    #121
                                                                                    i am watching the video for the 1st time, it's has a very anti-american tone.

                                                                                    is oliver stone the new michael moore?


                                                                                    here is the "documentary" it has some fantastic clips from hollywood movies to anchor stone's perspective.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Relentless
                                                                                        www.EngineFood.com
                                                                                        • Aug 2006
                                                                                        • 5697
                                                                                        #122
                                                                                        Originally posted by DWB
                                                                                        None of that makes it acceptable. Dropping atomic bombs on civilians is not acceptable no matter how someone tries to spin it or write it in the history books. Man will always find a way to justify his horrific actions and senseless murder of others.
                                                                                        The moral choice is not to begin war. I'm all for not having a war and I'm especially against never-ending wars against concepts like the war on terror or the war on drugs. However, during a war of last resort (like WWII was) any weapon that ends the war with fewer casualties and less damage is a good thing. The atomic bombs saved many more lives than they ended and did horrific damage on tiny locations compared o the widespread horrific damage that was ongoing on a global scale before they were dropped. As a moral exercise, BEFORE entering a war one should ask if we are wiling to use nuclear weapons. If the situation is not dire enough to say yes, then don't enter the war.thats why I was against the Iraq invasion but feel differently about our mission to destroy terrorist camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Germany with another eighteen months of R&D would have been a much bigger threat to life than those two nukes.

                                                                                        As for intimidating Russia, that wasn't needed. They had just lost millions of people In a very bloody war and were not itching for a fight when the war ended. That friction started later and our use of the nukes is part of what caused it. The world dislikes a single nation having a huge militaristic advantage. It's another part of why cutting our military budget and spending more wisely would not hurt our national security. A narrower gap makes other nations feel more safe and less aggressive.
                                                                                        Last edited by Relentless; 04-23-2013, 06:43 AM.


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                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • _Richard_
                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                            • Oct 2006
                                                                                            • 30991
                                                                                            #123
                                                                                            Originally posted by GAH
                                                                                            I have to congratulate the US forces for their speedy apprehension of those two terrorists, that having surveillance cameras everywhere is a great thing, however intrusive it seems to be. To be able to identify those two within 24 hours was brilliant. Lessons have to be learnt each time anything like this happens, lots of good and bad things can be worked on. What saddened me after the final terrorist was captured, was the world news coverage showing thousands [of mainly youngsters] out on the street, shouting USA, USA, like it was a Ryder Cup victory (remember them?!), turning a grave situation into it a carnival atmosphere, police cars roaming, honking their horns in appreciation. This also seemed to be explained by the fact it was 420 day, they were all stoned ? cops too.

                                                                                            The American reaction to such events tends to be different from anywhere else around the world, the National Guard on the streets, a no-fly zone, that every senator claimed their post contained Ricin, Louisiana closed down highways and harbours because someone accidentally left a briefcase near a post office. Obama desperate to appear on tv to petrify a nation as if aliens had landed and nuked New York. After Twin Towers idiot Bush told the word America was at war. The whole point of terrorism is to terrify, and America is brilliant at being that. And having most of the population armed didn't do much good, that should shut a lot of pro-gunners up.

                                                                                            Those who read that British ex-Prime Minister Thatcher died the other week, should note how she reacted when the IRA attempted to kill her in 1994, they blew up the hotel, five died, many injured, and she was very lucky to escape the blast. Next morning, 9.30am, she strode out and acted as if nothing had happened. Again, when the IRA bombed the City of London, enormous destruction, yet 36 hours later the whole area was opened for business as usual. These things need to be played down when they can, or the terrorists really are winning [in America].

                                                                                            Treat Tsarnaev as a criminal, not a terrorist, throw him in with the rapists, killers and not very nice people, don't make him special, by putting him in a quasii-prisoner of war detention camp, or killing him and making him and his brother martyrs.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • dyna mo
                                                                                                just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                • Dec 2008
                                                                                                • 68184
                                                                                                #124
                                                                                                Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                You're wrong. I watched a special on Showtime just a few weeks ago showing archived footage of the Generals in their own words saying that the bomb was not needed.
                                                                                                Truman wanted to drop it to prove a point.

                                                                                                Do some research. Don't believe what we were taught in school about it.
                                                                                                ok, i watched the doc in its entirety, thanks for pointing me to it.

                                                                                                for me, i think stone is on to something, but hasn't quite got it sorted out.

                                                                                                as stone points out, truman was not in charge of dropping the bomb, groves was, groves is otr stating that truman didn't so much as say yes, he just didn't say no to already existing plans to drop the bomb(s). groves described truman as a boy on a toboggan.

                                                                                                next, he goes on that the japanese communicate to the russians that they are willing to surrender conditionally, if the emperor can be kept.

                                                                                                general kawabi says: we learned of hiroshima gradually, we learned of the manchurain invasion quickly.

                                                                                                stalin had rushed to invade manchuria after learning of the successful test of the bomb

                                                                                                for me, what stone is really trying to revise, is that truman blinked. truman backed off his requiring japan to surrender uncondtionally, at potsdam, he allows them to maintain the emperor. in that sense, yes, the bomb didn't have anything to do with it.

                                                                                                but i don't think that changes the fact that the bombs did shorten the war. that's not to say that russia's entry would not have shortened the war. but based on the doc, the plan to drop the bombs was in motion via groves, truman had no real say, as did any of the other generals.
                                                                                                Last edited by dyna mo; 04-23-2013, 08:06 AM.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • theking
                                                                                                    Nice Kitty
                                                                                                    • Sep 2002
                                                                                                    • 21053
                                                                                                    #125
                                                                                                    Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                    ok, i watched the doc in its entirety, thanks for pointing me to it.

                                                                                                    for me, i think stone is on to something, but hasn't quite got it sorted out.

                                                                                                    as stone points out, truman was not in charge of dropping the bomb, groves was, groves is otr stating that truman didn't so much as say yes, he just didn't say no to already existing plans to drop the bomb(s). groves described truman as a boy on a toboggan.

                                                                                                    next, he goes on that the japanese communicate to the russians that they are willing to surrender conditionally, if the emperor can be kept.

                                                                                                    general kawabi says: we learned of hiroshima gradually, we learned of the manchurain invasion quickly.

                                                                                                    stalin had rushed to invade manchuria after learning of the successful test of the bomb

                                                                                                    for me, what stone is really trying to revise, is that truman blinked. truman backed off his requiring japan to surrender uncondtionally, at potsdam, he allows them to maintain the emperor. in that sense, yes, the bomb didn't have anything to do with it.

                                                                                                    but i don't think that changes the fact that the bombs did shorten the war. that's not to say that russia's entry would not have shortened the war. but based on the doc, the plan to drop the bombs was in motion via groves, truman had no real say, as did any of the other generals.
                                                                                                    I concur...the use of the A bomb shortened the war and saved lives for all involved.
                                                                                                    When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                                                                    FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • _Richard_
                                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                        • Oct 2006
                                                                                                        • 30991
                                                                                                        #126
                                                                                                        Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                        ok, i watched the doc in its entirety, thanks for pointing me to it.

                                                                                                        for me, i think stone is on to something, but hasn't quite got it sorted out.

                                                                                                        as stone points out, truman was not in charge of dropping the bomb, groves was, groves is otr stating that truman didn't so much as say yes, he just didn't say no to already existing plans to drop the bomb(s). groves described truman as a boy on a toboggan.

                                                                                                        next, he goes on that the japanese communicate to the russians that they are willing to surrender conditionally, if the emperor can be kept.

                                                                                                        general kawabi says: we learned of hiroshima gradually, we learned of the manchurain invasion quickly.

                                                                                                        stalin had rushed to invade manchuria after learning of the successful test of the bomb

                                                                                                        for me, what stone is really trying to revise, is that truman blinked. truman backed off his requiring japan to surrender uncondtionally, at potsdam, he allows them to maintain the emperor. in that sense, yes, the bomb didn't have anything to do with it.

                                                                                                        but i don't think that changes the fact that the bombs did shorten the war. that's not to say that russia's entry would not have shortened the war. but based on the doc, the plan to drop the bombs was in motion via groves, truman had no real say, as did any of the other generals.
                                                                                                        WW2 and the 'Unconditional Surrender'

                                                                                                        Some time during ww2, the allies started floating around this 'unconditional surrender' nonsense about how the war would end.

                                                                                                        so instead of another european war blowing itself out.. you had this added caveat that your surrender would be 'unconditional', whatever that meant.

                                                                                                        This meant you had no soldiers giving up, armies and governments fighting 'end game scenarios', cause for all they knew, everyone would end up dead

                                                                                                        So you had a war being dragged out for YEARS, because of two words

                                                                                                        same with Japan.

                                                                                                        Anyone who says 'this saved millions of lives', not only has no clue what they're talking about, is probably suspect MIC supporter

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • dyna mo
                                                                                                            just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                            • Dec 2008
                                                                                                            • 68184
                                                                                                            #127
                                                                                                            Originally posted by _Richard_
                                                                                                            WW2 and the 'Unconditional Surrender'

                                                                                                            Some time during ww2, the allies started floating around this 'unconditional surrender' nonsense about how the war would end.

                                                                                                            so instead of another european war blowing itself out.. you had this added caveat that your surrender would be 'unconditional', whatever that meant.

                                                                                                            This meant you had no soldiers giving up, armies and governments fighting 'end game scenarios', cause for all they knew, everyone would end up dead

                                                                                                            So you had a war being dragged out for YEARS, because of two words

                                                                                                            same with Japan.

                                                                                                            Anyone who says 'this saved millions of lives', not only has no clue what they're talking about, is probably suspect MIC supporter
                                                                                                            i know you are just c&p'ing this comment but it truly lacks any real understanding of the aggression of germany and japan at that time.

                                                                                                            that aggression prompted the unconditional surrender, certainly not the allies and some random bullshit, as the above gibberish suggests.

                                                                                                            proof is the misunderstanding the unconditional surrender saved lives.

                                                                                                            i've never read anything that claimed the requirement for unconditional surrender saved lives, that's pretty silly.
                                                                                                            Last edited by dyna mo; 04-23-2013, 01:52 PM.

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • georgeyw
                                                                                                                58008 53773
                                                                                                                • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                • 9865
                                                                                                                #128
                                                                                                                I do not understand why people comply so easily.

                                                                                                                I am not talking about back chatting or taking any aggressive stance towards the police.

                                                                                                                I am saying, I would NOT run around with my hands on my head or let them pat me down without questioning them. Yes they would likely get their back up, however if I am 100% innocent of any wrong doing and these clowns break into my house. I am not going to be cooperative at all.

                                                                                                                Think about it, you are in your house and these idiots start hammering on the door then drag you out. For what?

                                                                                                                These officers have on average an extremely shit job that attracts lesser intelligent and educated people. That video is simply an example of giving a tin of fuel to a kid and a match. THen saying it is ok to set it on fire.
                                                                                                                TripleXPrint on Megan Fox
                                                                                                                "I would STILL suck her pussy until her face caved in. And then blow her up and do it again!"

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • Mutt
                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                    • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                    • 34431
                                                                                                                    #129
                                                                                                                    The US should have brought Stalin to his knees when it had the upper hand with nuclear weapons. It would have spared hundreds of millions their freedom, no Iron Curtain, no Korean War, no Vietnam War.

                                                                                                                    Churchill wanted it, Patton wanted it - they were both branded kooks. History proved them right.
                                                                                                                    I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • _Richard_
                                                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                        • Oct 2006
                                                                                                                        • 30991
                                                                                                                        #130
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                        i know you are just c&p'ing this comment but it truly lacks any real understanding of the aggression of germany and japan at that time.

                                                                                                                        that aggression prompted the unconditional surrender, certainly not the allies and some random bullshit, as the above gibberish suggests.

                                                                                                                        proof is the misunderstanding the unconditional surrender saved lives.

                                                                                                                        i've never read anything that claimed the requirement for unconditional surrender saved lives, that's pretty silly.
                                                                                                                        do you know that the bush family had very close ties to the nazi party?

                                                                                                                        and sorry, i was talking about the nukes that were dropped on Japan

                                                                                                                        it was a crime against humanity.

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • dyna mo
                                                                                                                            just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                            • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                            • 68184
                                                                                                                            #131
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by _Richard_
                                                                                                                            do you know that the bush family had very close ties to the nazi party?

                                                                                                                            and sorry, i was talking about the nukes that were dropped on Japan

                                                                                                                            it was a crime against humanity.
                                                                                                                            no, they didn't have very close ties to the nazi party. they invested in the recovery of germany in the 130s-ish like many wealthy americans and businesses did.

                                                                                                                            the slaughter of civilians caused by any war is a crime against humanity.

                                                                                                                            america didn't invent that, america does not hold a monopoly on that. you'll need to include all the other participants in war for your comment to be fair and accurate.

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • Robbie
                                                                                                                                Leaner, Meaner, Faster
                                                                                                                                • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                • 20960
                                                                                                                                #132
                                                                                                                                dyna_mo we are hijacking this thread...but I'd like to say something to you.

                                                                                                                                You're not the only educated person on here. And not the best educated either I would suspect. I'm sure there are much more educated folks on here than you or I.

                                                                                                                                Having said that...I graduated college in 1983.
                                                                                                                                And one thing that always stuck in my head was our Western Civ professor telling us at the end of the semester that pretty much everything he had taught us was complete bullshit and that "history is written by the victors of wars"

                                                                                                                                I'd keep that in mind before you get your thoughts set in stone on the subject of the United States dropping atomic bombs on highly populated cities. (not even military targets)

                                                                                                                                If ANY country ever did that we would immediately brand them a "terrorist nation" and all hell would break lose.
                                                                                                                                But WE are the only country that has ever done something so horrible.

                                                                                                                                It's just one of the many reasons that people around the world hate and fear the United States. Our goddamn govt. is a disgrace.
                                                                                                                                -Robbie
                                                                                                                                ClaudiaMarie.Com

                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                  • _Richard_
                                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                    • Oct 2006
                                                                                                                                    • 30991
                                                                                                                                    #133
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                    no, they didn't have very close ties to the nazi party. they invested in the recovery of germany in the 130s-ish like many wealthy americans and businesses did.

                                                                                                                                    the slaughter of civilians caused by any war is a crime against humanity.

                                                                                                                                    america didn't invent that, america does not hold a monopoly on that. you'll need to include all the other participants in war for your comment to be fair and accurate.
                                                                                                                                    do i need to be fair and accurate when it comes to a subject of the needless deaths of countless women and children?

                                                                                                                                    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...secondworldwar

                                                                                                                                    can you read this and we can get back to the discussion? i don't want to type for awhile about shit that's already fact

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                        just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                        • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                        • 68184
                                                                                                                                        #134
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                        dyna_mo we are hijacking this thread...but I'd like to say something to you.

                                                                                                                                        You're not the only educated person on here. And not the best educated either I would suspect. I'm sure there are much more educated folks on here than you or I.

                                                                                                                                        Having said that...I graduated college in 1983.
                                                                                                                                        And one thing that always stuck in my head was our Western Civ professor telling us at the end of the semester that pretty much everything he had taught us was complete bullshit and that "history is written by the victors of wars"

                                                                                                                                        I'd keep that in mind before you get your thoughts set in stone on the subject of the United States dropping atomic bombs on highly populated cities. (not even military targets)

                                                                                                                                        If ANY country ever did that we would immediately brand them a "terrorist nation" and all hell would break lose.
                                                                                                                                        But WE are the only country that has ever done something so horrible.

                                                                                                                                        It's just one of the many reasons that people around the world hate and fear the United States. Our goddamn govt. is a disgrace.
                                                                                                                                        lol. every generation tries to rewrite history and that's part of what i like about it. i'm not clinging to anything. you mentioned "do some research" in reply to me and in reference to a showtime show, that's assuming less than you know, i let you know i've done research on this via college. not showing off in the slightest, my history degree and a nickel = 1 nickel.

                                                                                                                                        nevertheless, it's unfortunate you can't chat about it. hell, i watched your documentary and came back here with pertinent points to chat about. too bad.

                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by _Richard_
                                                                                                                                        do i need to be fair and accurate when it comes to a subject of the needless deaths of countless women and children?

                                                                                                                                        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...secondworldwar

                                                                                                                                        can you read this and we can get back to the discussion? i don't want to type for awhile about shit that's already fact

                                                                                                                                        ah, i'm done here.

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • Robbie
                                                                                                                                            Leaner, Meaner, Faster
                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                            • 20960
                                                                                                                                            #135
                                                                                                                                            dyna_mo my point is that history is written by the winners. Not by "every generation".

                                                                                                                                            If the Axis Powers had won WW2 our history books would read a lot different. Different "heroes' and different "villains"

                                                                                                                                            Watching that Oliver Stone documentary was eye opening for me. It's actually a series.

                                                                                                                                            And despite the bias that he may have...one thing is for certain: His ability to do real research (money) with true historians trumps my knowledge and college degree as it does yours.

                                                                                                                                            We learned in college what we were taught. Garbage in...garbage out (not everything, just saying that IF our history books aren't telling the real story then we didn't get taught the correct things).
                                                                                                                                            -Robbie
                                                                                                                                            ClaudiaMarie.Com

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • TheFootMan5
                                                                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                • Jan 2013
                                                                                                                                                • 645
                                                                                                                                                #136
                                                                                                                                                30,000 pigs and they didn't even find him

                                                                                                                                                If they didn't have martial law, then he would have been found hours earlier

                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • _Richard_
                                                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                    • Oct 2006
                                                                                                                                                    • 30991
                                                                                                                                                    #137
                                                                                                                                                    [QUOTE=dyna mo;19593932




                                                                                                                                                    ah, i'm done here.[/QUOTE]

                                                                                                                                                    then you haven't been paying attention to anything that has happened in history. and now i know you have no interest changing that

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • DWB
                                                                                                                                                        Registered User
                                                                                                                                                        • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                        • 31779
                                                                                                                                                        #138
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                                        We learned in college what we were taught. Garbage in...garbage out (not everything, just saying that IF our history books aren't telling the real story then we didn't get taught the correct things).

                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                            just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                            • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                            • 68184
                                                                                                                                                            #139
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by _Richard_
                                                                                                                                                            then you haven't been paying attention to anything that has happened in history. and now i know you have no interest changing that
                                                                                                                                                            not correct, being a history buff to whatever degree i am, i do pay attention to what happens in history, in fact, my attempt at dialogue here was an effort towards discussing that- i'm not interested in being right, i'm interested in trying to find out a realistic view, that takes discussion and dialogue, that's why i took the time out to do what robbie suggested- more research, so i watched the exact show he referenced and came back here with thoughts on it trying to prompt discussion. that didn't go over, that's cool.

                                                                                                                                                            that's correct, i have no interest in changing history.

                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                              • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                                • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                                • 68184
                                                                                                                                                                #140
                                                                                                                                                                There were two components to last week's shelter-in-place request in Watertown, Massachusetts. The first was a request that people not to leave home. The second was a door-to-door search by heavily armed law enforcement officials. Those are two very different things, with different implications. But neither was illegal.

                                                                                                                                                                No one in Watertown had to stay at home. The shelter-in-place was optional, largely an effort to ensure public safety in the classic sense of such requests. Time explains the difference:

                                                                                                                                                                “The lockdown is really voluntary, to be honest with you,” says Scott Silliman, emeritus director of the Center on Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke Law School. “The governor said he wants to use sheltering in place. Sheltering in place is a practice normally used if you’re dealing with a pandemic, where you’re telling people, ‘You may have been exposed and we want you to stay exactly where you are so we can isolate everything and we’ll come to you.’”

                                                                                                                                                                The “shelter in place” request is legally different from a state of emergency, which Patrick declared earlier this year as winter storm Nemo descended on the Bay State.




                                                                                                                                                                The ACLU agreed.

                                                                                                                                                                http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...s-legal/64461/


                                                                                                                                                                /end thread

                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                  • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                    just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                                    • 68184
                                                                                                                                                                    #141
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by DWB
                                                                                                                                                                    i've never read 1 single "history book" on ww2.

                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                      • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                        just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                                        • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                                        • 68184
                                                                                                                                                                        #142
                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                        dyna_mo my point is that history is written by the winners. Not by "every generation".

                                                                                                                                                                        If the Axis Powers had won WW2 our history books would read a lot different. Different "heroes' and different "villains"

                                                                                                                                                                        Watching that Oliver Stone documentary was eye opening for me. It's actually a series.

                                                                                                                                                                        And despite the bias that he may have...one thing is for certain: His ability to do real research (money) with true historians trumps my knowledge and college degree as it does yours.

                                                                                                                                                                        We learned in college what we were taught. Garbage in...garbage out (not everything, just saying that IF our history books aren't telling the real story then we didn't get taught the correct things).
                                                                                                                                                                        the go to authority on the japanese surrender is a japanese citizen.

                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                          • _Richard_
                                                                                                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                            • Oct 2006
                                                                                                                                                                            • 30991
                                                                                                                                                                            #143
                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                            not correct, being a history buff to whatever degree i am, i do pay attention to what happens in history, in fact, my attempt at dialogue here was an effort towards discussing that- i'm not interested in being right, i'm interested in trying to find out a realistic view, that takes discussion and dialogue, that's why i took the time out to do what robbie suggested- more research, so i watched the exact show he referenced and came back here with thoughts on it trying to prompt discussion. that didn't go over, that's cool.

                                                                                                                                                                            that's correct, i have no interest in changing history.
                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by dyna mo

                                                                                                                                                                            ah, i'm done here.
                                                                                                                                                                            sorry this meant you read the article?

                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                              • TheFootMan5
                                                                                                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                • Jan 2013
                                                                                                                                                                                • 645
                                                                                                                                                                                #144
                                                                                                                                                                                Anyone who defends this is 100% brainwashed

                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                  • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                                    just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 68184
                                                                                                                                                                                    #145
                                                                                                                                                                                    yes i read the article. :-) i am very much interested in ww2 and enjoy learning about it and the events surrounding it, thanks for linking it!

                                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                      • _Richard_
                                                                                                                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Oct 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 30991
                                                                                                                                                                                        #146
                                                                                                                                                                                        woo was worried

                                                                                                                                                                                        you have read this?

                                                                                                                                                                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                          • Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                            Leaner, Meaner, Faster
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 20960
                                                                                                                                                                                            #147
                                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                                            the go to authority on the japanese surrender is a japanese citizen.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Wouldn't most of them be dead by now of old age?

                                                                                                                                                                                            I'd say the authority on it would be the generals who were in the war room and said that the Japanese had already asked to surrender. They said that Truman had no interest in that.

                                                                                                                                                                                            All the Japanese wanted was for the U.S. to guarantee the Emperor would not be harmed. Truman said "no" that wasn't "unconditional" so he killed tens of thousands of men, women, and children with 2 atomic bomb drops on 2 cities.

                                                                                                                                                                                            And then afterwards they completely left the Emperor in place (which was all the Japanese asked for)

                                                                                                                                                                                            I think the research that Stone's people did was pretty good. And I again say...I don't trust the govt. one bit. They will do ANYTHING they can get away with. Including instantly frying tens of thousands of innocent women and children with 2 atomic bombs and of course the millions who have died of cancer from the radiation in the aftermath.

                                                                                                                                                                                            No excuse for that. But just like you...I was taught from grade school on that we did an "honorable" thing and saved millions of lives.
                                                                                                                                                                                            I no longer think that. The evidence is overwhelming to the contrary to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Last edited by Robbie; 04-23-2013, 03:36 PM.
                                                                                                                                                                                            -Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                            ClaudiaMarie.Com

                                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                              • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                                                just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 68184
                                                                                                                                                                                                #148
                                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd keep that in mind before you get your thoughts set in stone on the subject of the United States dropping atomic bombs on highly populated cities. (not even military targets)
                                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                Wouldn't most of them be dead by now of old age?


                                                                                                                                                                                                No excuse for that. But just like you...I was taught from grade school on that we did an "honorable" thing and saved millions of lives.
                                                                                                                                                                                                I no longer think that. The evidence is overwhelming to the contrary to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                the scholarly authority.


                                                                                                                                                                                                ftr, i've never once advocated nuclear weapons or war or ww2 or anything other than to point out in a post already that all civilian slaughter during war is a war crime- period. i simply tried to find the accurate view on that precise moment in history.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Last edited by dyna mo; 04-23-2013, 03:43 PM.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                  • baddog
                                                                                                                                                                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 107089
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #149
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oh man . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Going off the subject here...but NO! Dropping atomic bombs on two cities in Japan and killing innocent men, women, and children by the tens of thousands is NEVER "reasonable".

                                                                                                                                                                                                    It was an atrocity that history will look on very badly.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Bullshit; when you build a military complex among the citizens (pretty much what you are suggesting with your contention that all military installations should be on the coast and borders with other countries) means that civilians are subject to being harmed.


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                    If they did that to me and my family I'd get the most famous lawyer in the country and sue every one of those agencies involved for millions of dollars. Especially with that video footage right there as evidence.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sure you would.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by epitome
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yeah, man, this shit is completely new!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    No facts please.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Robbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry Jesse, but that looks nothing like the paramilitary shit I just saw (complete with machine guns) laying siege to a citizen's home and bringing them out like criminals, patting them down, and then going through their private residence.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe because there was no such thing as paramilitary in the 50's?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                                                                                    The cops in that video were doing their job.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    They were looking for a criminal for had killed three and hurt dozens with a bomb, shot and killed a police officer, kidnapped someone at gun point and stolen an SUV. The entire nation was holding it's breath. The police officers went door to door with weapons drawn.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    And if the cops had not found the suspects and more people were killed or injured, these same people would be complaining that not enough was done.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by DWB
                                                                                                                                                                                                    None of that makes it acceptable. Dropping atomic bombs on civilians is not acceptable no matter how someone tries to spin it or write it in the history books.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Man will always find a way to justify his horrific actions and senseless murder of others.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    So, you recommend all countries be sure to embed their troops and military installations deeply in residential communities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                                                    there is a lot of controversy right now surrounding this view on the surrender.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    did you know who came up with this view? oliver stone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, then I am convinced.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                                                    i am watching the video for the 1st time, it's has a very anti-american tone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    is oliver stone the new michael moore?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Rhetorical question?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by georgeyw
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I do not understand why people comply so easily.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not talking about back chatting or taking any aggressive stance towards the police.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think every Aussie I am friends with has a story about how they fought the law and the law won.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      • dyna mo
                                                                                                                                                                                                        just a fucking jerk
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Dec 2008
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 68184
                                                                                                                                                                                                        #150
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by _Richard_
                                                                                                                                                                                                        woo was worried

                                                                                                                                                                                                        you have read this?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
                                                                                                                                                                                                        i had not heard of this, sounds fishy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

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