SICKO makes me hate the US more than I ever have

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  • onlymovies
    Confirmed User
    • Sep 2003
    • 906
    #51
    Here are my worries personally about being here in the usa.

    1 - I can pay 500-1000 a month for health insurance my whole life, on time, never missing a payment and if something happens that lands me (or my faimly) in the hospital, blue cross can still deny needed treatment. Now that alone is just fucking scary.

    2 - My worry about living in the usa is NOT when things are good and money is coming in, it's when shit hits the fan. I have kids to think about it. What happens if i lose everything and my childs needs care? What happens if I can't pay our insurance? You think the insurance companies are going to say "hey man, you've been a good client for 20 years, go get your treatment fr your child".....hell no. My family is fucked. So living here in the USA is fine when you have money..when you don't, then you're stuck on some shit program if that.

    3 - About the taxes complaint....raise them, I don't give a fuck. Having health care for my family *IF* we are ever in a time of need is MORE important to me, then paying out extra taxes when things were good. Again, i don't worry when things are good...i worry when things AREN'T good.
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      • Axeman
        Confirmed User
        • Feb 2004
        • 5201
        #52
        Also realize the US tax payer currently pays more than a Canadian tax payer per capita for health care already. The US pays more yet covers far less people because of the bloated system based on PROFIT. It's in everyone's best interest to make you sick, and then not treat a large % to keep revenues high. Sure you can say doctors fees are high because they need higher cost of malpractice insurance. But its a vicious circle where they all pat themselves on the backs and work together to raise profits. As long as you got HMO's dictating things, costs will continue to skyrocket and leave the have not's behind. And that is a large portion of the country.

        Also factor in that a lot of Americans with insurance have massive deductible's and co-pay's that mean they may get 80% of their $100k bill taken care of, but they still have $20k they owe themselves after a $5k deductable etc etc. And most of the affordable plans are this way. Also most have a max of $250k or something like that for payout. So if you get Cancer your fucked.

        So many flaws in the way its done in the US, especially when each US tax payer already pays double that in $ per person toward health care then that of a Canadian.
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          Comment

          • CDSmith
            Too lazy to set a custom title
            • May 2001
            • 51460
            #53
            Pleasurepays said:
            for me personally, this is where i am conflicted. like a guy on a street corner asking for money. is it a scam? will he buy booze? is he insane? is he off his medication? does he just make 200.00 a day doing this, so he has no need for a job? will i give him 20.00 to make myself feel better so i can pat myself on the back and say "you know, i'm a good person" knowing in the back of my mind that i just bought him cheap booze?
            It's why I stopped donating to such causes. After seeing 3 or 4 later outted for scamming well, I lost my taste for it. It's different if I know the person and they are in trouble and legitimately need help, after all I'm not completely heartless.

            Niether am I stupid.


            In fact, I'll share this with you... As a Canadian I do enjoy all that our universal health care system has to offer (including all it's flaws).... but as a self-employed "entrepreneur" of sorts who works from home and has no company-funded benefits package, I DO have extra coverage. It's called "critical illness insurance", I pay about $60 per month for it, and in the event that I develop some debilitating disease or serious trauma where I have to head south of the border for treatment, it covers me up to a certain amount. That amount is quite substantial (as would be the cost I'm sure).

            It also pays my mortgage in such an event, and all my other costs of living while I'm recovering.

            I know full well that just relying on what we have "for free" isn't always enough. And really, when is the cost too high for peace of mind?
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              Comment

              • seeric
                ..........
                • Aug 2004
                • 41917
                #54
                damian2001

                go get the papers ready buddy.

                lol.

                  Comment

                  • Pleasurepays
                    BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 11913
                    #55
                    I know full well that just relying on what we have "for free" isn't always enough. And really, when is the cost too high for peace of mind?
                    when you can easily afford it for yourself because you are a hardworker, manage money well and plan for failure... but are expected to pay for everyone else who isn't, doesn't and won't?

                      Comment

                      • Damian_Maxcash
                        So Fucking Banned
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 12745
                        #56
                        OK

                        You get the bed ready while I get the forms filled in...

                        You know its not legal until its consumated?

                        LOL

                          Comment

                          • seeric
                            ..........
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 41917
                            #57
                            roflllllllllllllllllllllllllll

                              Comment

                              • tony299
                                lurker
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 57021
                                #58
                                CD alot of whats quoted is what the pundits say.Higher taxes, bad care and its all bullshit. The sheep listen to these republican senators talk about socialized medicine and what they dont realize is the senator already has it. They dont pay a dime for healthcare. Also as far as the great US care, my father has stage 4 lung cancer. The cancer was in his brain,its still on the outside of his lungs and lymph nodes. The doctor comes in and says its doesnt look good this is moving very fast and in the next breath he says the specialist cant see you for at least two weeks. The others he needs cant see him for at least 3 months.
                                My mom who works for a high powered doctor had to pull all kinds of favors to get my father taken care of immediately. If he beats this he will owe his life to her literally because without connections they just would of been starting treatment.
                                I wont get into the actual treatment using a 30yr chemo drug on him ,that was like rat poison and only after that failed could they use the newer stuff because thats what the insurance company wanted.

                                  Comment

                                  • CDSmith
                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                    • May 2001
                                    • 51460
                                    #59
                                    when you can easily afford it for yourself because you are a hardworker, manage money well and plan for failure... but are expected to pay for everyone else who isn't, doesn't and won't?
                                    But then there's the guys like Onlymovies (post #51). His concerns look pretty legitimate to me, and are the same or similar aired by a lot of other Americans.

                                    All things considered, the peace of mind that our system in Canada affords us is priceless, in my view anyway. And I've been on both sides of the fence here, having been a patient numerous times over the years but I've also worked in the health care system, for nearly 15 years.

                                    The spinal surgery I had to have when I was 16 would have cost a boatload of money in the US, even back then. Here, the bill to my parents was $0.00.
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                                      • 12clicks
                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                        • Jan 2001
                                        • 19814
                                        #60
                                        I will pay the airfare for anyone who promises never to return.
                                        I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                          Comment

                                          • onlymovies
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Sep 2003
                                            • 906
                                            #61
                                            can't seem to quote..
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                                              • CDSmith
                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                • May 2001
                                                • 51460
                                                #62
                                                Tony I hope your dad pulls through.

                                                Good post btw.
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                                                  • tony299
                                                    lurker
                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                    • 57021
                                                    #63
                                                    Pleasure Pays
                                                    when you can easily afford it for yourself because you are a hardworker, manage money well and plan for failure... but are expected to pay for everyone else who isn't, doesn't and won't?

                                                    If you got hit with a really bad illness or your kids, you have no idea of what kind of numbers could happen. You could go thru hundreds of thousands of dollars very quickly.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • tony299
                                                        lurker
                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                        • 57021
                                                        #64
                                                        Thanks CD the old guy is tough he is a fighter.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • bronco67
                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                            • Dec 2006
                                                            • 29026
                                                            #65
                                                            Don't believe everything Michael Moore says. He's been proven to be a flat out liar.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • tony299
                                                                lurker
                                                                • Aug 2002
                                                                • 57021
                                                                #66
                                                                Who has proven Moore to be a liar right wing wackos? If he was lying he would be sued to high heaven that hasnt happened.Open your mind.
                                                                The right spew hate,lies and misconceptions 40 hours a week easy and mike does a movie once in a while and he is the problem stop lol.
                                                                Last edited by tony286; 11-10-2007, 02:00 PM.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • CDSmith
                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                    • May 2001
                                                                    • 51460
                                                                    #67
                                                                    One thing I like about both our countries is that we are all afforded the freedom to air complaints or otherwise BITCH about our respective health care systems, legal systems, football refs, etc etc.

                                                                    God bless freedom.


                                                                    I don't see anything wrong with people identifying flaws in a country's inner workings, especially if it's in the hope of improving said country.

                                                                    Flying insults or posting bold-faced misinformation is quite another matter though.
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                                                                      • 12clicks
                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                        • 19814
                                                                        #68
                                                                        amazing what passes for inteligence on this board.

                                                                        Yes, follow michael moore. HE knows the real truth! hahahaha
                                                                        I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Pleasurepays
                                                                            BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
                                                                            • Aug 2002
                                                                            • 11913
                                                                            #69
                                                                            Originally posted by tony404
                                                                            If you got hit with a really bad illness or your kids, you have no idea of what kind of numbers could happen. You could go thru hundreds of thousands of dollars very quickly.
                                                                            you're right. i have no idea. i live in a giant terrarium with 4 tarantulas with nothing for entertainment except chasing the occasional fly and really have no clue how the world works.

                                                                            thanks for explaining this to me. in 37 years, i have never been to a hospital, never known anyone who has and frankly, i have no idea what they even do there.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • L-Pink
                                                                                working on my tan
                                                                                • Mar 2005
                                                                                • 39151
                                                                                #70

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • D
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                                                    • 7412
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    L-Pink said:
                                                                                    D, how many of those uninsurable are only uninsurable now. How many paid for years but aren't covered because they changed jobs or retired. When most workers retire their health benefits stop. On your own trying to find single person coverage is tough. To get NO credit for the years/decades you have paid is the real crux of the problem for many.
                                                                                    I think that's at the heart of the problem. No American, imho... old, young, poor, rich, should ever be "uninsurable." And, as in your case, after years of paying into the system, and reaping no tangible benefit - and then to be labeled as "uninsurable" _only_because you're reaching a certain age after a healthy and paid-up life... well, that only compounds the insult, I'm sure... and I can certainly empathize with your situation.

                                                                                    Hopefully, we're due for a change in the near future in this regard. I know I'm doing whatever I can to make that happen, and I can only hope that enough of my countrymen are doing the same.
                                                                                    -D.
                                                                                    ICQ: 202-96-31

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                                                                                      • D
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Jan 2006
                                                                                        • 7412
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        damian2001 said:

                                                                                        OK

                                                                                        You get the bed ready while I get the forms filled in...

                                                                                        You know its not legal until its consumated?

                                                                                        LOL
                                                                                        K, so who's got the video cam?
                                                                                        -D.
                                                                                        ICQ: 202-96-31

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • onlymovies
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Sep 2003
                                                                                            • 906
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                                                                            why not break a worldwide stereotype of the average American and invest in a plane ticket and get outside and see how the rest of the world lives so you also have an informed view on how the world works outside of SisterRape, Kansas

                                                                                            Been there done that plenty of times. Last time in my early 20's in Denmark. And sorry to admit that i was i wasn't really focused on their system of things ....
                                                                                            When i asked "is it really that good outside the usa?" i was referring to health care. I should have made that clear.
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                                                                                              • Ryan St. Germain
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Sep 2006
                                                                                                • 1269
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Don't believe everything ANYONE say's. There is no single source of information that is flawless when it comes to a topic as broad as this.

                                                                                                HOWEVER; don't disbelieve everything that someone say's because they've been wrong in the past.

                                                                                                In other words, don't be a lemming; think for yourself.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • Megafoo
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Sep 2007
                                                                                                    • 232
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    this is going to cause an a flame war i know it, but i have to say this. Yes the u.S. is fucked up in health care, and there are other countries with better health care systems. But if it wasn't for the for-profit system in the U.S. most of the major breakthrus in medical treatment (most notably the high tech stuff) would have never happened. As fucked up the U.S. system is, it creates competition and we all know that competition is the best fuel for innovation. Innovation in health care usually means better health care (at higher costs though). So everyone in those foreign countries saying 'i wont go to the u.s. blah blah blah' without the u.s. your doctors might still be using high radiation poor imaging x ray machines.
                                                                                                    ICQ number: 497388922

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                                                                                                      • Linkster
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                                                        • 3216
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Not a flame - but that line of reasoning is total BS for the "technology breakthrus" - in most cases those come from either government funded projects (grants to research hospitals) or are actually discovered/invented overseas and then patented by US companies - it has nothing whatsoever to do with higher costs of medical care funding any of this - 90% of what you pay for medical these days goes to funding the beauracracy of paperwork, paying for administators of PPOs etc, and insurance and pharmaceutical company profits. The other 10% goes to the actual doctors and nurses
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                                                                                                          • Megafoo
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Sep 2007
                                                                                                            • 232
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            and then patented by US companies
                                                                                                            why do you think that is? because its the U.S. Companies that have the money to do that, or fund research, or promise the money will be there when the technology is made, plus your forgetting another thing entirely, why do u.s. companies fund projects in other countries? because its easier to get thru their 'FDA' type policing then it is in the U.S.
                                                                                                            ICQ number: 497388922

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                                                                                                              • slapass
                                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                • 14625
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                I need to see the movie but we are all independent workers or most of us. In the US you need to go out and get your own insurance. I happen to live in a state where it is cheap and plentiful (MN) and covers if you are in the uninsurable category. I am not but was close. I have a 5k deductible but so what. My insurance is just that - Insurance! I pay $133.00/month and it covered about 80k of back surgery a few years ago. When I get sick I pay for it but if it is major I am covered.

                                                                                                                A1R3K, do not even think about Brasil if this type of thing bothers you. EVERYONE with money buys their own health care plan(about $159US/month for me). Sure it is free here otherwise but feel free to die with inadequate care as Brasil rates near the bottom in quality.

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • tony299
                                                                                                                    lurker
                                                                                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                    • 57021
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    Actually brazil is in the middle for life expectancy, they are 92 but the richest country in the world the good ole US is 38 which is pathetic.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • Andy Servers4Less
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Apr 2007
                                                                                                                        • 922
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        Michael Moore's point is to make everyone hate the US. I think he ate Bin Laden
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                                                                                                                          • GreyWolf
                                                                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                            • Jun 2007
                                                                                                                            • 2036
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            tony:
                                                                                                                            Actually brazil is in the middle for life expectancy, they are 92 but the richest country in the world the good ole US is 38 which is pathetic.
                                                                                                                            It is a pity there is much misinformation and deviant slants spread about healthcare - it serves no useful purpose other than to keep lining the pockets of those with vested interests.

                                                                                                                            Couple of quick examples of other countries - The UK has UHC and it is accepted as a right. That said, it's not perfect - nothing is, but means any person can have access to treatment regardless of medical condition or cost.

                                                                                                                            Costa Rica also has UHC and ranks on par with the US annually (either one above or one below). The vast difference with both the UK and the US is that the cost of UHC for a family of four averages $250/year and is all-inclusive (medical treatment, dental care etc). The quality of care is no different to either the US or the UK. The other ironical aspect is, rates of taxation in CR are very low - if they are applicable in the first instance. If you make allowances for local salaries/costs - it still makes you wonder how they can sustain a UHC system for so little money.

                                                                                                                            On healthcare experiences here - only been in hospital once for a couple of days, but got excellent care and could not complain. A US expat friend here had to go into hospital re heart problem for a few weeks. He never had insurance here, but there was no hesitiation treating him - the priority was his treatment, not money. He was stunned that he was provided with a level of healthcare he would have expected back home. When he was released from hospital, he was only too pleased to pay $250/year for his family of four and wanted to do this as a way of saying thank you. Another elderly expat lady from the US had a heart attack a month ago - she is fine now, but was also amazed at the constant attention she got from both doctors and nursing staff.

                                                                                                                            Nothing is ever perfect anywhere and things can go wrong, but you can't help but wonder there is something seriously wrong when people get to the level of bankruptcy over healthcare. I've settled hospital bills for a good friend in the US - she exhausted her health insurance and they elected to not pay more (catch 22) - no way does any individual need to go without treatment because the system failed them. There is no valid reason for not providing healthcare to anyone who needs it - especially within any "civilized" country where normally, full treatment facilities exist.

                                                                                                                            Best wishes to your Dad and hope he continues to get the treatment he deserves

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • papill0n
                                                                                                                                Unregistered Abuser
                                                                                                                                • Oct 2007
                                                                                                                                • 15547
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                yeah i know ben, i served for this country. to see foreigners who i really respect for their culture and worldliness and human caring really makes you disappointed in the usa. i can see straight through this bs as it stood before even seeing the documentary. michael is known to edit cleverly, but you can't deny fact.

                                                                                                                                here's one for ya.

                                                                                                                                i recently had a car crash. cost me over 7k in emergency room bills. no insurance. i covered it of course. any other country, you're straight. here, they are all bizness. i don't care about that much, but it really upset me that there are so many people here that are insured and still get owned by big biz ins companies and for profit hmos that make all their loot on denying claims and all that. wow, how some people can sleep at night.
                                                                                                                                __________________
                                                                                                                                It is a fucked up situation air3k - no doubt man.

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                                                                                                                                  • Linkster
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                    • 3216
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Megafoo - in most cases the dont fund the research - they just buy the US patent rights after the fact - has nothing to do with funding research or providing front money.
                                                                                                                                    Most of the best breakthrus in medicine have been outside the US - there are just some very smart corporations that do nothing but travel the world looking for new products to buy the rights for US patents - as a matter of fact (and do please fact check me if you like) - very few medical discoveries or new products come from the US - it costs too much and the US government has their own research facility (NIH) to fund - so they are stingy with private companies
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                                                                                                                                      • MaDalton
                                                                                                                                        I am Amazing Content!
                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                                        • 39861
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        Megafoo said:
                                                                                                                                        this is going to cause an a flame war i know it, but i have to say this. Yes the u.S. is fucked up in health care, and there are other countries with better health care systems. But if it wasn't for the for-profit system in the U.S. most of the major breakthrus in medical treatment (most notably the high tech stuff) would have never happened. As fucked up the U.S. system is, it creates competition and we all know that competition is the best fuel for innovation. Innovation in health care usually means better health care (at higher costs though). So everyone in those foreign countries saying 'i wont go to the u.s. blah blah blah' without the u.s. your doctors might still be using high radiation poor imaging x ray machines.
                                                                                                                                        bullshit - look up Siemens Medical Systems - i worked for them for 5 years. and i sold more than 20 x-rays in that time, one of them was the first digital orthodontic x-ray that was ever sold. it's a german company btw - like the guy who invented x-ray

                                                                                                                                        you people need to stop believing that the world evolves around you - just because Disneyland is a great entertainment park

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                                                                                                                                          • FRAUD
                                                                                                                                            Registered User
                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2007
                                                                                                                                            • 34
                                                                                                                                            #85
                                                                                                                                            fuck the u.s.
                                                                                                                                            FUCK OFF

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                                                                                                                                              • dav3
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • May 2007
                                                                                                                                                • 7348
                                                                                                                                                #86
                                                                                                                                                I actually just saw Sicko about a week ago myself. I would just like to add that Nixon was a little bitch.
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                                                                                                                                                  • seeric
                                                                                                                                                    ..........
                                                                                                                                                    • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                    • 41917
                                                                                                                                                    #87
                                                                                                                                                    yup nixon WAS a crook.

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • Megafoo
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Sep 2007
                                                                                                                                                        • 232
                                                                                                                                                        #88
                                                                                                                                                        you people need to stop believing that the world evolves around you - just because Disneyland is a great entertainment park
                                                                                                                                                        Dude! it was an example, metaphor, whatever you want to call it. stop being so anal.

                                                                                                                                                        U.S. is the biggest buy of medical equipment WORLDWIDE but yet we make up just a fraction of the world population.

                                                                                                                                                        The U.S. is the largest single country consumer of medical and dental equipment and supplies, with a market valued at nearly $80 billion in 2005 (including diagnostic products) and U.S. medical technology companies lead the world in medical device production.

                                                                                                                                                        also

                                                                                                                                                        In 2004 the U.S. comprised roughly 45% of the pharmaceutical market worldwide, while Europe comprises about 25% (AMR Research).

                                                                                                                                                        I never once said i support the way the United States is handling their health care but Universal Coverage does not promote competition among hospital/medical establishment the way an unregulated (for profit) health care system does. And we all know we need competition within any business catagory in order to get better products/services.

                                                                                                                                                        When roughly 1/20th of the worlds population is responsible for approx 50% of the revenue made by the world medical establishment you can not sit there and say we are not responsible for most of the medical breakthrus you people living with universal coverage take for granted.
                                                                                                                                                        ICQ number: 497388922

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                                                                                                                                                          • NKYKev
                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                            • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                                                            • 283
                                                                                                                                                            #89
                                                                                                                                                            As recent events show, the problem with a purely profit driven health system is that the companies have an incentive to cancel the policies of the sickest customers. It is even worse when it is company policy and they are paying bonuses for it.

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                                                                                                                                                              • GreyWolf
                                                                                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                • Jun 2007
                                                                                                                                                                • 2036
                                                                                                                                                                #90
                                                                                                                                                                Dude! it was an example, metaphor, whatever you want to call it. stop being so anal.

                                                                                                                                                                U.S. is the biggest buy of medical equipment WORLDWIDE but yet we make up just a fraction of the world population.
                                                                                                                                                                A metaphor eh?? OK... metaphorically speaking, - has it ever occured to you why the US also consumes 25% of world oil resources when it only has 5% of world population???

                                                                                                                                                                Have you ever asked yourself why there is a disproportionate number of pharma corps for only 5% of world population???

                                                                                                                                                                You got to work that one out yourself, but can give you a clue - you are an over-paying consumer in the world's best marketplace for "legal" drug cocktails and all based on a price which cannot be challenged by law. The legal drugs cartels are even better than the illegal one's *lol*

                                                                                                                                                                Back to the thread topic - the wind and hot air has nothing to do with the subject of the thread - "acutal healthcare".
                                                                                                                                                                Last edited by GreyWolf; 11-10-2007, 10:38 PM.

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                                                                                                                                                                  • seeric
                                                                                                                                                                    ..........
                                                                                                                                                                    • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                                    • 41917
                                                                                                                                                                    #91
                                                                                                                                                                    pretty much. the employees (doctors) of the biggest health companies are rewarded for denying medical treatment. there's a winning occupation for yah. no need to use your medical skills to help people, just pick up the deny stamp and you'll get bonuses.

                                                                                                                                                                    lol.

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                                                                                                                                                                      • jryan89
                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                        • Nov 2006
                                                                                                                                                                        • 818
                                                                                                                                                                        #92
                                                                                                                                                                        Fuck You!

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                                                                                                                                                                          • seeric
                                                                                                                                                                            ..........
                                                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                                            • 41917
                                                                                                                                                                            #93
                                                                                                                                                                            Bwahahahahahahahaaaaaaa

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                                                                                                                                                                              • cykoe6
                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                • Apr 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                • 4499
                                                                                                                                                                                #94
                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by 12clicks
                                                                                                                                                                                I will pay the airfare for anyone who promises never to return.
                                                                                                                                                                                I will pitch in for that. Micheal Moore is a cheap propagandist. It is amazing to see how easily people are suckered in by his lies. If you think life is so much better in Cuba then the US then please move there and see how it goes. Idiots.
                                                                                                                                                                                бабки, шлюхи, сила

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                                                                                                                                                                                  • Drake
                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello world!
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 12508
                                                                                                                                                                                    #95
                                                                                                                                                                                    Moore might go overboard. I mean, nobody in their right mind would choose to live in Cuba or anywhere like that over the US. But the point about healthcare is valid and existed long before Moore starting making docu-drama-mentaries about it.

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                                                                                                                                                                                      • buzzy
                                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                        • May 2007
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 2606
                                                                                                                                                                                        #96
                                                                                                                                                                                        Propagadist is the last line of defence for the deniers, the best of people is them who can admit there is something wrong with themselves or their country and then suggest better ways for improving it.

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                                                                                                                                                                                          • yys
                                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 1922
                                                                                                                                                                                            #97
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www3.thestar.com/static/PDF/20071110_taxes.pdf

                                                                                                                                                                                            Here's a good graphic to give people an idea of taxes as a percentage of economic output(gdp). As you can see taxes are not that much more of a burden in Canada compared to the U.S.A. These figures do not include the various tax cuts that have been implemented or proposed over the past few years such as the reduction of GST(VAT) from 7% to 5% and the reductions in both personal and corporate tax rates.

                                                                                                                                                                                            As most people on here are self-employed or run their own corp's you would pay less tax in Canada then if you ran the business in the U.S. and within a few years Canada will have the lowest corporate taxes in the OECD.

                                                                                                                                                                                            As you can see contrary to what you might have heard Canadians aren't the commie tax and spenders most people assume we are.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Last edited by yys; 11-11-2007, 07:14 AM.

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                                                                                                                                                                                              • tony299
                                                                                                                                                                                                lurker
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 57021
                                                                                                                                                                                                #98
                                                                                                                                                                                                The greatest number of mri machines per captia are in Japan.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                  • munki
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do Fun Shit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 13393
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #99
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just finished up watching sicko yesterday... and am left feeling much the same...

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Europe and Canada are both looking pretty damn good about right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    “I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.” -Oscar Wilde

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                                                                                                                                                                                                      • seeric
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ..........
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 41917
                                                                                                                                                                                                        #100
                                                                                                                                                                                                        taxes in those countries are not that much higher. the prob is the u.s. runs the healthcare for profit. other countries do not. the lobbyists in washington are paid well to make sure that doesnt change.

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