CONVICTION: Jury Finds 1 Video Obscene - 2 Videos Not - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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BoyAlley

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CONVICTION: Jury Finds 1 Video Obscene - 2 Videos Not

10-25-2007, 03:39 PM

I find it VERY interesting that this is a split ruling on the titles:

PHOENIX – After just five hours of deliberation, a jury composed of eight women and four men announced at 1:00 this afternoon that they had determined that Five Star Video LC and Five Star Video Outlet LC were guilty of obscenity charges for having shipped JM Productions’ Gag Factor 18 to an undercover FBI agent in Falls Church, VA.

The jury found the Five Star companies guilty of the interstate transportation of obscene materials and the interstate transportation of obscene material by common carrier. However, the companies were acquitted of the same charges for shipping two similar JM Productions videos, Filthy Things 6 and American Bukakke 13.

However, the jurors admitted that many of them were familiar with adult video productions, and had found Filthy Things 6 consistent with ordinary adult fare. The jurors were divided as to American Bukakke 13, with its depiction of multiple men ejaculating on a single female – which several of the jurors had found offensive, according to Graham.

http://www.avn.com/index.cfm?objectI...DD829C1C5F30C7

Last edited by BoyAlley; 10-25-2007, 03:40 PM.
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#2

10-25-2007, 03:41 PM

So bukakke is ok but no gagging on the cock?

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10-25-2007, 03:41 PM

Yippie, onward to the appeal.
The cycle never ends.

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#4

10-25-2007, 03:42 PM

rabbit hole?

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#5

10-25-2007, 03:43 PM

Can't we all just masturbate in peace?

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Snake Doctor

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#6

10-25-2007, 03:44 PM

This is the interesting part

?What?s interesting to me is that we told the jurors about some of the evidence that the judge had excluded from the case,? Graham said, ?and they told us that if they had known that that material was being sold in the Phoenix area, it probably would have made a difference in their verdicts.?

Was this some bible thumping judge who wouldn't allow the defense to show other titles being sold by other stores in the area?

If that's the case then this is an almost definite reversal on appeal.

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BoyAlley

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#7

10-25-2007, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Snake Doctor

So bukakke is ok but no gagging on the cock?

I know how weird.

This whole "obscenity" law just absolutely dumbfounds me.

Having a jury decide that filming getting your face cum on by a bunch of guys at once is OK, but choking on a cock should get you sent to prison.

When juries come to conclusions like that, how in the HELL is anyone suppose to "guess" what is or is not illegal to film?
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BoyAlley

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#8

10-25-2007, 04:05 PM

I'm wondering if the jury felt that the whole gagging thing was a "violent" act towards the women?

So while standard sex, or anal sex, or even bukakka appears as a voluntary enjoyable sex act for the woman, the jury felt that "gagging" isn't an enjoyable experience?

I have no idea, but am disappointed that the jury didn't tell the government to get the hell out of their bedrooms.
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#9

10-25-2007, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by BoyAlley

I know how weird.

This whole "obscenity" law just absolutely dumbfounds me.

Having a jury decide that filming getting your face cum on by a bunch of guys at once is OK, but choking on a cock should get you sent to prison.

When juries come to conclusions like that, how in the HELL is anyone suppose to "guess" what is or is not illegal to film?

I guess the male members of the jury were probably upset because their cocks weren't big enough to gag anyone.

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BoyAlley

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#10

10-25-2007, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Snake Doctor

I guess the male members of the jury were probably upset because their cocks weren't big enough to gag anyone.

I know the feeling. I could gag someone with my nose easy, but my penis? Not so much.........
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#11

10-25-2007, 04:25 PM

I think the jury drew the line at what they thought was forced, violent sex.

BUT , if they had been shown other videos that are sold in Phoenix they might have come down with a Not Guilty verdict. I am looking forward to the results of the appeal, but for now, at least in Arizona, bukakke is not obscene. Nor are the acts depicted in Filthy Things 6.

I guess that makes the fundamentalist's argument that ALL porn is obscene sound pretty stupid

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#12

10-25-2007, 05:06 PM

The whole problem is they convict on what is "offensive".

I could convict 75% of all prime time TV sitcoms on that principle since the level of stupidity in them is "offensive" to me as I feel like they are insulting my intelligence to think I want to see that shit.
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#13

10-25-2007, 05:12 PM

I find TMZ.COM and Entertainment Tonight offensive.
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#14

10-25-2007, 05:13 PM

must have been a blast watching the evidence

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#15

10-25-2007, 05:21 PM

The whole gagging thing can be taken as violence towards women. I personally dont see it as a turn on at all, it seems more of an angry act to me.
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#16

10-25-2007, 05:37 PM

good thing i only deal in rape fantasy... that gagging niche is disturbing.

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#17

10-25-2007, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by tony404

The whole gagging thing can be taken as violence towards women. I personally dont see it as a turn on at all, it seems more of an angry act to me.

Dude you make no sense whatsoever.

Everytime someone says anything good about a republican you're all like "OMG what business are you in they want to destroy us"

But when the govt goes after someone like this or max hardcore you're on the government's side.

WTF?

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#18

10-25-2007, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Snake Doctor

Dude you make no sense whatsoever.

Everytime someone says anything good about a republican you're all like "OMG what business are you in they want to destroy us"

But when the govt goes after someone like this or max hardcore you're on the government's side.

WTF?

Where do you read im on the governments side? I said how it could be taken. People want to go to extremes to make a buck then you cant be surprised when shit happens.If we all owned restaurants and do I have to like every restaurant out there ? I think adults should get to watch what they want to watch as long as its made by consenting adults. Shit, extreme porn is get makes my shit like look wholesome lol. Its just not my thing and I dont see it as turn on it just seems very angry towards woman.
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#19

10-25-2007, 05:53 PM

Ah yes, the "local community standards" trap that can trip up even the most cautious webmasters - truth is that most any adult website, no matter how tame it seems to many of us, is likely in violation of "local community standards" somewhere in the U.S.

Many adult websites work to minimize such risk by disallowing signups from certain areas and/or hiding behind a bunch of shell companies that are basically shadows too expensive / hassle to traceback...

Fortunately for most adult business folks, the authorities tend to target the very, very low fruit (often there's some warning; foreshadowing of trouble) - in this instance, the authorities went after a company that shipped physical product to what's likely considered a "problem" zipcode by many in the business.

In the view of many, obscenity laws go against the 1st amendment (some scholars debate otherwise in it doesn't preclude local govts enacting limits) ... but regardless, such restrictions definitely go against the spirit of freedom of speech and expression in general; violation of basic human rights of legal consenting adults to live their lives free of draconian restrictions on activities that aren't hurting others.

With all that said, the jury's ruling is somewhat bizarre, since bukakke is considered very obscene by many far more than cocksucking.

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tony286

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#20

10-25-2007, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Snake Doctor

Dude you make no sense whatsoever.

Everytime someone says anything good about a republican you're all like "OMG what business are you in they want to destroy us"

But when the govt goes after someone like this or max hardcore you're on the government's side.

WTF?

Also tell me the good republicans have done for our business considering anytime there has been big changes or big arrests its been during an republican admin. Not to mention the biggest boom porn ever had was during clinton, where Janet Reno saw going after adult porn as a waste of resources.
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tony286

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#21

10-25-2007, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Ron Bennett

Ah yes, the "local community standards" trap that can trip up even the most cautious webmasters - truth is that most any adult website, no matter how tame it seems to many of us, is likely in violation of "local community standards" somewhere in the U.S.

Many adult websites work to minimize such risk by disallowing signups from certain areas and/or hiding behind a bunch of shell companies that are basically shadows too expensive / hassle to traceback...

Fortunately for most adult business folks, the authorities tend to target the very, very low fruit (often there's some warning; foreshadowing of trouble) - in this instance, the authorities went after a company that shipped physical product to what's likely considered a "problem" zipcode by many in the business.

In the view of many, obscenity laws go against the 1st amendment (some scholars debate otherwise in it doesn't preclude local govts enacting limits) ... but regardless, such restrictions definitely go against the spirit of freedom of speech and expression in general; violation of basic human rights of legal consenting adults to live their lives free of draconian restrictions on activities that aren't hurting others.

With all that said, the jury's ruling is somewhat bizarre, since bukakke is considered very obscene by many far more than cocksucking.

Ron

gagging is not just a blow job and all porn isnt the same. They know its almost impossible to win with vanilla porn because you can see pretty much the same shit on cable tv. Extreme shit makes big dollars, to go into it or sell it and not be aware of the big risk surprises me.

Last edited by tony286; 10-25-2007, 06:00 PM.
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#22

10-25-2007, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by tony404

Extreme shit makes big dollars, to go into it or sell it and not be aware of the big risk surprises me.

There obviously is "a limit" since the law exist. Somebody is going to press the issue to find the limit and they should be ready for the consequences.

We'd all like a clear line to know how far we can go but that clear line would also be a limit of expression and no one would want that either.

It's clear that there is a limit where it appears to be activity that no one would reasonably submit too. And just because some desparate person with no money does submit, does not mean it is "reasonable".

The jury just thought nobody except a desparate person or fool would submit to being bascially chocked repeatedly by something in their throat.
Not necessarily a fact, but they had to decide the fact.
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#23

10-25-2007, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by sortie

There obviously is "a limit" since the law exist. Somebody is going to press the issue to find the limit and they should be ready for the consequences.

We'd all like a clear line to know how far we can go but that clear line would also be a limit of expression and no one would want that either.

It's clear that there is a limit where it appears to be activity that no one would reasonably submit too. And just because some desparate person with no money does submit, does not mean it is "reasonable".

The jury just thought nobody except a desparate person or fool would submit to being bascially chocked repeatedly by something in their throat.
Not necessarily a fact, but they had to decide the fact.

I agree I wish there was a clear written law, a list of dos and donts but unfortunately that will never happen because it would be political death for someone.
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#24

10-25-2007, 06:21 PM

then maybe all of gay dvds out there are offensive.. show those to 8 stright jurors.

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#25

10-25-2007, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by Jason

then maybe all of gay dvds out there are offensive.. show those to 8 stright jurors.

Has gay porn ever been involved in a obscenity trial? None come to mind.
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#26

10-25-2007, 06:36 PM

There is no true limit in the law, because tastes change.

Those of you out there will remember that on "I Love Lucy", they had seperate single beds in their bedroom. That's right, married couple that were portayed as sleeping apart on TV because the world wasn't ready for a married couple together in bed.

That is an extreme case, but it does show how things move and slide over time.

40 years ago, pretty much any porn would have been considered obscene in one manner or another. Now we have a clear indiction that Bukkake is okay, which is huge. That covers facial cumshots, group sex, etc. Huge.

Gagging is one of those things. I never though much of it mostly because it doesn't seem to be enjoyable. Just not my style I guess.

I think the porn industry could easily exist with more bukkake and a little less gagging...
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#27

10-25-2007, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by tony404

Has gay porn ever been involved in a obscenity trial? None come to mind.

While more art than porn, the works of Robert Mapplethorpe come to mind....
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#28

10-25-2007, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by BoyAlley

I find it VERY interesting that this is a split ruling on the titles:

http://www.avn.com/index.cfm?objectI...DD829C1C5F30C7

Shouldn't you be at the GAYVN Retreat?

Theers no more money in porn - I got the last of it.
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BoyAlley

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#29

10-25-2007, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by thehand

Shouldn't you be at the GAYVN Retreat?

Wtf would I want to hang around with a bunch of gays for?
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#30

10-25-2007, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by tony404

Also tell me the good republicans have done for our business

They buy memberships to the gay sites and support them financially.

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#31

10-25-2007, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by BoyAlley

Wtf would I want to hang around with a bunch of gays for?

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I was at teh CCBill party an hour ago....... the answer was .... they convert cam traffic

Theers no more money in porn - I got the last of it.
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BoyAlley

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#32

10-25-2007, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by thehand

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I was at teh CCBill party an hour ago....... the answer was .... they convert cam traffic

They would just all hit on me all night long, and I'm already taken.

Other gays find my large nose irresistible.
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#33

10-25-2007, 08:50 PM

This is huge news. The fact they found any of the titles obscene is very very bad news for all of that are producers.

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#34

10-25-2007, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by RawAlex

There is no true limit in the law, because tastes change.

Those of you out there will remember that on "I Love Lucy", they had seperate single beds in their bedroom. That's right, married couple that were portayed as sleeping apart on TV because the world wasn't ready for a married couple together in bed.

That is an extreme case, but it does show how things move and slide over time.

40 years ago, pretty much any porn would have been considered obscene in one manner or another. Now we have a clear indiction that Bukkake is okay, which is huge. That covers facial cumshots, group sex, etc. Huge.

Gagging is one of those things. I never though much of it mostly because it doesn't seem to be enjoyable. Just not my style I guess.

I think the porn industry could easily exist with more bukkake and a little less gagging...

I don't think at all that this says that bukkake is OK and something else is not.

I think all it says is that the "community standard" in Phoenix was slightly defined for this case. You could have a different case, different jury, decide that something more vanilla was obscene. That's the biggest problem with obscenity cases is that they are extremely subjective. There is no line drawn in the sand. Even this case doesn't draw a line, it merely provided a definition for this scenario and that's it.

I truly believe you could show that tape to a different set of jurors and get a no problem vote, whereas something completely different could set off an entirely alternate set of jurors. 12 people chosen to represent a population of over 2 million is not a good representation at all. The way they go jury hunting is also extremely inappropriate; if they want a true random representation, then if you get called for jury duty, your number gets drawn from a hat and boom...you are on the case.

Many of these problem areas of law need to be more specifically visited and defined, not just left for cases to decide arbitrarily.

The entire copyright discussion is entirely along this line of thinking. Draw lines in the sand and say .... DON'T CROSS THIS LINE, IF YOU DO YOU WILL BE PUNISHED. If gagging is obscene.... define it as obscene... define beastiality, child porn, etc etc.... make them the letter of the law. if someone pushes the boundaries with something new..... they are OK until the law is amended to include that action as well. If something in the law becomes outdated, the law should be revisited and amended to remove exclusions if the public deems that it should be (who knows... in the future, gagging may be a perfectly acceptable sexual action, right???)

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#35

10-25-2007, 09:01 PM

i dont get how the videos being "offensive" has anything to do with it . I am offended by fat people naked . it shouldnt be illegal though . i should just close my eyes if i see it

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#36

10-25-2007, 09:16 PM

gagging???

how long ago did Deep Throat come out?

and bukkake?? I thought almost every porn has a guy or two slooging on a woman's face.... {yawn} ...

it's all been done in varying degrees forever and this stuff is consensual so the government should get the fuck out of it

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#37

10-25-2007, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by tony404

Where do you read im on the governments side? I said how it could be taken. People want to go to extremes to make a buck then you cant be surprised when shit happens.If we all owned restaurants and do I have to like every restaurant out there ? I think adults should get to watch what they want to watch as long as its made by consenting adults. Shit, extreme porn is get makes my shit like look wholesome lol. Its just not my thing and I dont see it as turn on it just seems very angry towards woman.

Originally posted by tony404

Also tell me the good republicans have done for our business considering anytime there has been big changes or big arrests its been during an republican admin. Not to mention the biggest boom porn ever had was during clinton, where Janet Reno saw going after adult porn as a waste of resources.

*sigh*
You just don't get it. This case wasn't about "hey do you like this porn would you jerk off to it" it was about whether or not the producer should go to jail for making it and distributing it.
The clear answer is NO, because it was made by and for CONSENTING ADULTS.
You have this attitude (not just here but in alot of these threads over the years) of "why do they do this extreme shit it just makes it harder on the rest of us"....."well they were stupid for shooting porn in Florida so they deserve what they get"
You either support the first amendment or you don't man, it seems to me that you don't. You only seem to support it when it's something that you like or produce.

As for the political issues, the biggest porn boom came under Clinton because the internet boom also came under Clinton.
There is no politician or political party that is our friend, all of them would gladly step on our faces if they thought it would get them one extra vote.
Personally I do vote democrat most of the time, but I'm not under any illusion that they like me or wouldn't prosecute me if it was politically beneficial to them.

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#38

10-26-2007, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Snake Doctor

*sigh*
You just don't get it. This case wasn't about "hey do you like this porn would you jerk off to it" it was about whether or not the producer should go to jail for making it and distributing it.
The clear answer is NO, because it was made by and for CONSENTING ADULTS.
You have this attitude (not just here but in alot of these threads over the years) of "why do they do this extreme shit it just makes it harder on the rest of us"....."well they were stupid for shooting porn in Florida so they deserve what they get"
You either support the first amendment or you don't man, it seems to me that you don't. You only seem to support it when it's something that you like or produce.

As for the political issues, the biggest porn boom came under Clinton because the internet boom also came under Clinton.
There is no politician or political party that is our friend, all of them would gladly step on our faces if they thought it would get them one extra vote.
Personally I do vote democrat most of the time, but I'm not under any illusion that they like me or wouldn't prosecute me if it was politically beneficial to them.

You really dont know what your talking about, stick with being a great marketer.
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#39

10-26-2007, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by tony404

You really dont know what your talking about, stick with being a great marketer.

Hahaha, yeah you're right. Politicians love pornographers and people should only shoot porn that doesn't offend you in order to get the courts protection.

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