Who's the better athlete? A pro boxer or mma fighter? - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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#1

Who's the better athlete? A pro boxer or mma fighter?

10-05-2007, 02:26 PM

I'm not asking who would win in a fight or anything like that...but who do you think is the better athlete?

Also, if you were to start from nothing, which would take you longer to accomplish, being a successful pro boxer or successful mma fighter?

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#2

10-05-2007, 02:27 PM

Pro Boxer by far. If yo are talking about being in shape.

for question #2 also a Pro Boxer, I think it's a bit safer also.

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#3

10-05-2007, 03:20 PM

Boxer all the way. I don't think boxing is safer though. They take more punishment, more blows to the head. You figure a pro fighter will have around 20+ fights by the end of his career and probably takes around 15+ shots a round. Opposed to a martial artist that might take 15 shots in a fight or less.

And lets face it anyone with desire can be an mma these days. I don't see any special talent from any of these guys. There's a few that are great grapplers but for the most part these guys are garbage. Its a glorified tough man contest. Just take a look at the ufc show on spike. A bunch of talentless hacks that go on tv and become superstars 6 months later.
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#4

10-05-2007, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by smoke

Boxer all the way. I don't think boxing is safer though. They take more punishment, more blows to the head. You figure a pro fighter will have around 20+ fights by the end of his career and probably takes around 15+ shots a round. Opposed to a martial artist that might take 15 shots in a fight or less.

And lets face it anyone with desire can be an mma these days. I don't see any special talent from any of these guys. There's a few that are great grapplers but for the most part these guys are garbage. Its a glorified tough man contest. Just take a look at the ufc show on spike. A bunch of talentless hacks that go on tv and become superstars 6 months later.

That's exactly what someone who doesn't follow and understand the sport would say about MMA. MMA is superior to pro boxing these days and you have to be in incredible shape to be at the top level of the sport. You have to be able to grapple and kick box through three 5 minute rounds and five 5 minute rounds for championship fights. Boxers dance around the ring and only throw punches, MMA guys attack from all kinds of angles. I agree that The Ultimate Fighter show is for the most part lame and you have a valid point about it but as far as the rest of your comments, I strongly disagree.

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#5

10-05-2007, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by SilkyJohnson

That's exactly what someone who doesn't follow and understand the sport would say about MMA. MMA is superior to pro boxing these days and you have to be in incredible shape to be at the top level of the sport. You have to be able to grapple and kick box through three 5 minute rounds and five 5 minute rounds for championship fights. Boxers dance around the ring and only throw punches, MMA guys attack from all kinds of angles. I agree that The Ultimate Fighter show is for the most part lame and you have a valid point about it but as far as the rest of your comments, I strongly disagree.

Well I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination....but a championship boxing match is 15 rounds times 3 minutes....and when you clinch to try and rest the ref breaks it up.
I'm not saying it doesn't take any energy to grapple on the ground, but alot of times you can tell those guys are tired and in guard trying to catch their breath. You don't get to do that in boxing.

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#6

10-05-2007, 03:42 PM

Depends on the training and genetics of the fighter. I doubt Butterbean is more athletic than Randy or Chuck.
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#7

10-05-2007, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

I'm not asking who would win in a fight or anything like that...but who do you think is the better athlete?

Also, if you were to start from nothing, which would take you longer to accomplish, being a successful pro boxer or successful mma fighter?

If you are talking strictly about athleticism I don't think you can make that distinction. Being a good athlete has nothing to do with what sport you play and everything to do with your genetics. A good athlete is always going to be a good athlete, no matter what sports he/she plays....

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#8

10-05-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Well I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination....but a championship boxing match is 15 rounds times 3 minutes....and when you clinch to try and rest the ref breaks it up.
I'm not saying it doesn't take any energy to grapple on the ground, but alot of times you can tell those guys are tired and in guard trying to catch their breath. You don't get to do that in boxing.

Actually it is only 12 rounds. They haven't gone 15 rounds for many years...

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#9

10-05-2007, 03:46 PM

Boxer considering the stamina.

MMA has proven to be safer stat wise.

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#10

10-05-2007, 03:47 PM

boxer on both obviously

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#11

10-05-2007, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Well I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination....but a championship boxing match is 15 rounds times 3 minutes....and when you clinch to try and rest the ref breaks it up.
I'm not saying it doesn't take any energy to grapple on the ground, but alot of times you can tell those guys are tired and in guard trying to catch their breath. You don't get to do that in boxing.

I think MMA guys have to be in more well rounded shape...to defend takedowns, kicks, punches, attempt takedowns, kick, punch, and plus defend against submissions. Boxers know what to expect, this guy is going to try to punch me until I fall down...they don't have to worry about being taken to the mat and pummeled.

I can't even watch boxing anymore...too little action/excitement. I've gotten so into MMA that I find excitement in watching a good escape from a submission attempt. And of course the knockouts are always good for business.

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#12

10-05-2007, 03:51 PM

If you take the top 25 MMA fighter VS top 25 Boxers, put them in contests in 15 different sports, I'm sure the MMA fighters will win. Olympics gold medalist have tried in the sport and failed.

Better cardio (Cardio is 3 dimentional unlike boxing), better flexibility, better explosiveness for take downs and overall they work with all of their bodies.

MMA fighters have by FAR a better fonctional cardio (kickboxing, wreslting and grapling...).

They also need more flexibility and have to practice explosiveness from all their bodies for takedowns.

Everybody that said pro boxing are better athletes don't know what an MMA guy training regiment looks like.

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#13

10-05-2007, 04:01 PM

I'm gonna have to go with MMA on this one. Not to say boxers aren't in incredible shape, but boxers only really need to worry about getting punched, so their fights are so much more 1 dimensional.

There are guys in both sports that aren't in great shape too, but they make it as far as they can and then gas, happens in both sports.
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#14

10-05-2007, 06:44 PM

im quite positive they both train just as hard as the other. if you want to be the best you train the hardest. and you can only train as hard as your body allows which im sure guys from both sports do. so im going to say they train equally hard.
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#15

10-05-2007, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Dre

If you take the top 25 MMA fighter VS top 25 Boxers, put them in contests in 15 different sports, I'm sure the MMA fighters will win. Olympics gold medalist have tried in the sport and failed.

Better cardio (Cardio is 3 dimentional unlike boxing), better flexibility, better explosiveness for take downs and overall they work with all of their bodies.

MMA fighters have by FAR a better fonctional cardio (kickboxing, wreslting and grapling...).

They also need more flexibility and have to practice explosiveness from all their bodies for takedowns.

Everybody that said pro boxing are better athletes don't know what an MMA guy training regiment looks like.

I have mass respect for boxers but I agree with Dr Dre on all his points on this one... MMA is much more rounded and involves many more skills sets.

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#16

10-05-2007, 08:18 PM

what do you mean by bette athlete? Better in all sports or sports with endurance. Being into boxing myself... I went into a ring with a few mma guys and their endurance training is different due to legs working a lot more... so all around mma is better for overall body athletism. Becoming a pro boxer right now is harder since its a better payed /olympic sport alot more quality competition. But this can all change.

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#17

10-05-2007, 08:23 PM

And as far as how long it takes to become a pro boxer VS an MMA guy.

I'd say it would be generally faster for an MMA guy to start fighting pro from nothing, but probably longer then a boxer to become a fully well rounded fighter. Becomming a Jui Juitsu expert requires years of training, and that's just 1/3 of what they have to learn.

You also have to count in the fact that most MMA guys come from a certain background where they trained in for years (wrestling, kick boxing, thai, jui juitsu etc)...

Becomming a well rounded MMA guy dosen't happen generally as quick as a pro boxer.

So my answer :
Faster to become a pro MMA fighter
Longer then boxing to become a top tier MMA fighter VS become a top tier pro boxer.

But the two sports are totally different, boxing is more of a sience... Succesful gameplans are only starting too emerge in MMA outside of the top tier.

Last edited by Doctor Dre; 10-05-2007, 08:26 PM.

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#18

10-05-2007, 08:24 PM

Top quality boxers generally are in much better cardio shape. MMA fighters work for strength nearly as much as cardio. In fact, I don't think any athlete in the entire world is more conditioned than your elite boxer, most of whom can run marathons at any moment as well as fight 12 hard rounds.

MMA is FAR safer. In MMA you don't take the repeated blows to the head. No real padding on the gloves means if you get hit you generally go right out. There are no known neurological effects from being choked out as long as it's not held too long. If you want to know which sport is safer, look at any 70 yr old boxer (if you can find one who's lived that long) and look at Helio Gracie at ninety-something.
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#19

10-05-2007, 08:36 PM

In terms of cardio, probably a boxer. The fact that it's one dimensional (punching) with 12 rounds and little opportunity to rest requires incredible stamina and arm strength. In MMA if your arms are tired, you can throw some kicks and vice versa, and it's only 3 rounds.

There are quality athletes in both sports, but because competition is more stiff in boxing, there are probably many more quality athletes there right now.
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#20

10-05-2007, 08:45 PM

anyone and their grandma is in mma these days it's very watered down, pro boxers are probably some of the best conditioned athletes in the world.
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#21

10-05-2007, 09:18 PM

boxing is a gentlemen's art.

mma is showbiz
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#22

10-05-2007, 10:22 PM

boxer... on the 2nd part, mma fighter if it's mma rules

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#23

10-06-2007, 01:51 AM

idk??????

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#24

10-06-2007, 02:00 AM

The Pro boxer wins in a boxing match and the MMA fighter wins in a MMA match
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#25

10-06-2007, 02:37 AM

Who is stronger?

Rocky or Rambo?
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#26

10-06-2007, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by smoke

And lets face it anyone with desire can be an mma these days. I don't see any special talent from any of these guys.

I'm guessing you're a boxing fan that found out the UFC is making more than boxing and (fake) pro wrestling. Dana White has offered boxers the same pay they get in boxing to come "KO" these ufc guys but not one ofem seem to want their free payday, lol...
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#27

10-06-2007, 03:06 AM

As for the OPs question. You can't say someone is a better athlete because they are primarily a boxer or MMA fighter, give me a break...
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#28

10-06-2007, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by cess

As for the OPs question. You can't say someone is a better athlete because they are primarily a boxer or MMA fighter, give me a break...

Sure you can, it's all a matter of opinion anyways.

If I asked who was a better athlete, the average player in the NFL or the average player in MLB....the answer would be easy.

My opinion (and it's just an opinion) is that boxers are better overall athletes and that it is harder to become a pro boxer.
Mainly because (as was mentioned before) it's an olympic sporting event, and the pay at the higher levels is ALOT more than the top MMA guys make.
Therefore you have alot more elite athletes trying to break into boxing, as well as already being there. This of course may change in the future as MMA becomes more popular.

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#29

10-06-2007, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by cess

Dana White has offered boxers the same pay they get in boxing to come "KO" these ufc guys but not one ofem seem to want their free payday, lol...

Why would any self-respecting boxer want to go into a MMA style match!
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#30

10-06-2007, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Alex from Montreal

Why would any self-respecting boxer want to go into a MMA style match!

This is correct. A boxer can only bring a fraction of the skills required to win an MMA match. Of course he knows better to do this, even for matching pay.

Anyway, the rest isn't opinion. It's easier to become pro in MMA, it just is. It's not easier to become [I]successful[I]. All the guys who will be remembered as the best in their weight class have been training since they were kids or teens, just like boxers. However, earning the title "pro" means nothing in MMA. If you get paid, you're considered pro. It really isn't a matter of a skill. That will probably change in time.

I'm going with better athlete in MMA even in cardio. You can't compare the number of rounds when you're doing two totally different things. The amount of energy required to shoot for a takedown, defend a takedown, kicks to the legs/body, punches to the face/body, knees is a totally different scenario than worrying about punches.

Someone tries to argue that since clinching isn't allowed that this means boxers have better cardio? Why? A clinch isn't a rest. You have to actively fight in the clinch in MMA with your opponent's weight on you or constantly fighting to get off the cage while taking knees to your body and legs or defend trip takedowns and slams.

To underestimate the amount of skill that's in a top level MMA fight is a weak troll or a 100% guarantee the person has no idea what he's talking about.

Try both for yourself. I have and everyone else I know who's done both agrees with me.
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10-06-2007, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by valetudo

This is correct. A boxer can only bring a fraction of the skills required to win an MMA match. Of course he knows better to do this, even for matching pay.

Anyway, the rest isn't opinion. It's easier to become pro in MMA, it just is. It's not easier to become [I]successful[I]. All the guys who will be remembered as the best in their weight class have been training since they were kids or teens, just like boxers. However, earning the title "pro" means nothing in MMA. If you get paid, you're considered pro. It really isn't a matter of a skill. That will probably change in time.

I'm going with better athlete in MMA even in cardio. You can't compare the number of rounds when you're doing two totally different things. The amount of energy required to shoot for a takedown, defend a takedown, kicks to the legs/body, punches to the face/body, knees is a totally different scenario than worrying about punches.

Someone tries to argue that since clinching isn't allowed that this means boxers have better cardio? Why? A clinch isn't a rest. You have to actively fight in the clinch in MMA with your opponent's weight on you or constantly fighting to get off the cage while taking knees to your body and legs or defend trip takedowns and slams.

To underestimate the amount of skill that's in a top level MMA fight is a weak troll or a 100% guarantee the person has no idea what he's talking about.

Try both for yourself. I have and everyone else I know who's done both agrees with me.

Theoretically this could be tested couldn't it? You would just have a match between an MMA guy and a boxer, with only boxing allowed. Also, if this was true, wouldn't it be fairly easy for a top MMA fighter to make the transition to become an elite boxer? He's used to having to look out for an arsenal of moves from his opponent in MMA, but now he can just concentrate on protecting himself from punches. And if his cardio is superior he would have even more of an edge.

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#32

10-06-2007, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Mike33

Theoretically this could be tested couldn't it? You would just have a match between an MMA guy and a boxer, with only boxing allowed. Also, if this was true, wouldn't it be fairly easy for a top MMA fighter to make the transition to become an elite boxer? He's used to having to look out for an arsenal of moves from his opponent in MMA, but now he can just concentrate on protecting himself from punches. And if his cardio is superior he would have even more of an edge.

As they say "Jack of all trades, master of none"
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#33

10-06-2007, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Mike33

Theoretically this could be tested couldn't it? You would just have a match between an MMA guy and a boxer, with only boxing allowed. Also, if this was true, wouldn't it be fairly easy for a top MMA fighter to make the transition to become an elite boxer? He's used to having to look out for an arsenal of moves from his opponent in MMA, but now he can just concentrate on protecting himself from punches. And if his cardio is superior he would have even more of an edge.

It couldn't be tested that way. An MMA fighter couldn't beat a boxer under boxing rules, so cardio would never be the issue, which goes back to the point I made. You can't compare cardio between an MMAer and a boxer by rounds because they do lots of different things. Getting sprawled on twice in a 5 minute round by a guy your weight takes more away than 3 minute round of boxing. Athleticism certainly can't be judged on ability to box.

But yea, an MMA guy has to watch more things but none it would apply to boxing. Gloves are different, stance is different, jabs, etc. If you came into an MMA match in a boxing stance jabbing away, you'd be on your back pretty quick.

Alex - There's plenty of Olympic caliber athletes in MMA, so I'd like to think they are a master of something. There's K-1 kickboxers, world champ/olympic wrestlers judoka. Why do you disagree?
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#34

10-06-2007, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by valetudo

This is correct. A boxer can only bring a fraction of the skills required to win an MMA match. Of course he knows better to do this, even for matching pay.

Anyway, the rest isn't opinion. It's easier to become pro in MMA, it just is. It's not easier to become [I]successful[I]. All the guys who will be remembered as the best in their weight class have been training since they were kids or teens, just like boxers. However, earning the title "pro" means nothing in MMA. If you get paid, you're considered pro. It really isn't a matter of a skill. That will probably change in time.

I'm going with better athlete in MMA even in cardio. You can't compare the number of rounds when you're doing two totally different things. The amount of energy required to shoot for a takedown, defend a takedown, kicks to the legs/body, punches to the face/body, knees is a totally different scenario than worrying about punches.

Someone tries to argue that since clinching isn't allowed that this means boxers have better cardio? Why? A clinch isn't a rest. You have to actively fight in the clinch in MMA with your opponent's weight on you or constantly fighting to get off the cage while taking knees to your body and legs or defend trip takedowns and slams.

To underestimate the amount of skill that's in a top level MMA fight is a weak troll or a 100% guarantee the person has no idea what he's talking about.

Try both for yourself. I have and everyone else I know who's done both agrees with me.

lol no they don't. I've done both and boxing is waaaaaay more exhausting. It's tiring just facing off with someone and matching their movement while you keep their hands up. If I get tired in BJJ I can pick a spot and rest, in boxing they break the clinch.

Also in MMA one lucky shot can end the fight, and the better fighter has a much larger chance to lose an MMA fight than he does a boxing match. Randleman can beat Crocop with one leaping left hook. Anyone can have a mental slip and get triangled.

One lucky shot isn't going to win you the fight against Bernard Hopkins....

Also Dana White will NOT pay boxers their normal pay against MMA guys. Most boxers and MMA guys as well will fight any man and most animals if the pay is right, they don't care. It's management that makes those decsions. I can't remember who the MMA guy was who just called out Floyd Mayweather, but Kermit Cintron stepped up and offerered to the fight the guy for half the money they were going to pay Floyd and they didn't want any.

It would be 10x easier for a boxer to fight MMA style than for your typical MMA guy to become an outstanding boxer. Boxing is more difficult, and I'm not speaking from a hate standpoint, I respect fighters in both arts, but it's just a fact. A good BJJ blue belt with outstanding hands could fight MMA and do ok. Give a world class boxer time to get his purple, learn good takedown defense and he could be a top MMA fighter easily. It takes rare talent to become a top notch boxer... it's more than a matter of learning, you have to be a physical phenom to reach the top in boxing.
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#35

10-06-2007, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by dig420

lol no they don't. I've done both and boxing is waaaaaay more exhausting. It's tiring just facing off with someone and matching their movement while you keep their hands up. If I get tired in BJJ I can pick a spot and rest, in boxing they break the clinch.

Also in MMA one lucky shot can end the fight, and the better fighter has a much larger chance to lose an MMA fight than he does a boxing match. Randleman can beat Crocop with one leaping left hook. Anyone can have a mental slip and get triangled.

One lucky shot isn't going to win you the fight against Bernard Hopkins....

Also Dana White will NOT pay boxers their normal pay against MMA guys. Most boxers and MMA guys as well will fight any man and most animals if the pay is right, they don't care. It's management that makes those decsions. I can't remember who the MMA guy was who just called out Floyd Mayweather, but Kermit Cintron stepped up and offerered to the fight the guy for half the money they were going to pay Floyd and they didn't want any.

It would be 10x easier for a boxer to fight MMA style than for your typical MMA guy to become an outstanding boxer. Boxing is more difficult, and I'm not speaking from a hate standpoint, I respect fighters in both arts, but it's just a fact. A good BJJ blue belt with outstanding hands could fight MMA and do ok. Give a world class boxer time to get his purple, learn good takedown defense and he could be a top MMA fighter easily. It takes rare talent to become a top notch boxer... it's more than a matter of learning, you have to be a physical phenom to reach the top in boxing.

I agree except I dont think they would need as much time as you think. In fact I dont think they'd need anything more than their normal pre fight camp.

When I look at mma to me its the closest thing to a street fight except you cant kick on the ground and really get nasty. So with that said I think most boxers have come from the street. And I dont think the adjustment would be as big as people think. Sure they probably dont know every submission but I guarentee you they know how to sprawl and most boxers have great balance. It wouldnt be as easy to take them down as people think. They also know how to be an effective agressor which most mma's dont. Someone with great boxing would come forward quickly and step to the side for the cross. And basically pumble an mma, I dont even see it as a question. Most people that think mma is king truly have no understanding of the greatness it takes to be a top level boxer.

But this is an endless debate because boxers make more money boxing than they would in mma. The only way I see it being plausible is if a lower tier boxer comes over but Dana White would never take that risk. Which is why Kermit isnt fighting Sherk in the UFC. Which brings up another point about lower tier boxers. You have all these guys that are absolutely garbage like Houston Alexander and a few others, Im not sure what their names are that really have no talent except having a punchers chance. And they get hailed by mma fans. And you bet your ass that evertime they fight the announcers make it a point to say they were boxers before. The truth is they were garbage boxers and knew if they were going to make it in the fight game mma was thier only chance.
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#36

10-06-2007, 11:16 AM

You seem to know a lot about MMA which would indicate to me that you know comparing stalling on the ground to regain your cardio in BJJ is not the same thing as stalling on the ground in a match where you can be hit. Besides, if you stall now you're stood up.

Sherk challenged Floyd but Floyd said after the match he enjoys MMA but would never fight in it. Cintron couldn't sell PPVs to make him worth the millions. I wish he could though, that guy would be awesome to see in MMA. He was also a state champion wrestler in HS.

The difference between a boxer going to MMA and an MMAer going to boxing is this:
A boxer adapting to MMA throws away years of technique learned in boxing because it's useless in an MMA bout. There's no reason for an MMAer to overtrain boxing because there's really no use.

An MMAer going to boxing would be throwing away years of his jiu-jitsu, wrestling, muay thai, etc..

A wrestler going to MMA throws away years of what he learned because many wrestling techniques are useless in MMA.

An MMAer going to wrestling throws away years of his boxing, muay thai, jiu jitsu.

Some things would transfer, but a lot probably not.

The "good blue belt with good hands" thing is fading away pretty quick. That was true years ago but these guys are getting raped now and I'm glad to see it.

I wouldn't say being top in the world at boxing is harder than boxing top in the world at judo, wrestling, or jiu-jitsu. The technique and dedication required are similar.

I respect a boxer's skill just the same as I respect Cael Sanderson, Karelin, or Jacare's and Marcelinho Garcia's. They train hours every day to perfect the technique in the sport they like.

As far as your boxing experience being more exhausting than your mixed martial arts experience, I dunno what to say. Most people I know feel the same way as me, I'm sure some don't. Being new to any sport will always be more tiring despite your cardio efforts, but I don't know your background so I won't try to say.
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#37

10-06-2007, 11:18 AM

lol..smoke sounds like Jim Lampley.
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#38

10-06-2007, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by dig420

lol no they don't. I've done both and boxing is
It would be 10x easier for a boxer to fight MMA style than for your typical MMA guy to become an outstanding boxer. Boxing is more difficult, and I'm not speaking from a hate standpoint, I respect fighters in both arts, but it's just a fact. A good BJJ blue belt with outstanding hands could fight MMA and do ok. Give a world class boxer time to get his purple, learn good takedown defense and he could be a top MMA fighter easily. It takes rare talent to become a top notch boxer... it's more than a matter of learning, you have to be a physical phenom to reach the top in boxing.

I agree 100%. I have always said take an average pro boxer and teach him some basic takedown defense, he would be at the top in mma.
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#39

10-06-2007, 11:19 AM

yeah or they take has beens or never-was guys like Art Jimmerson or Ray Mercer...

Don't misunderstand me, you need to respect the skillset of top MMA guys. They're great athletes, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye, and they will fuck you up in a second. That said, boxing is a much more developed sport, the top guys are nearly psychotic in their dedication to training and there's a ton more money in it. MMA just hasn't reached that level yet and I don't think it ever will because it's just too chaotic. Anyone can get knocked out at any time and the top guys don't stay on top long enough to really become superstars.
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#40

10-06-2007, 11:24 AM

MMAs gonna keep progressing. I would say pretty much every year is a developing year. Boxing's been here for a LONG time, MMAs only been here for a little under 20 years.

The problem with comments like "teach basic takedown defense" or "any boxer is going to know how to sprawl" is like saying "anybody's gonna know how to jab"

There's a lot more to sprawling than shooting your legs backwards and pushing your hips down. To further this point..it's near impossible to find a world class boxing trainer who can understand how to train a fighter for understanding kicks, knees, takedowns. It's a common complaint. It's not something anyone can do.

Last edited by valetudo; 10-06-2007, 11:26 AM.
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#41

10-06-2007, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by valetudo

You seem to know a lot about MMA which would indicate to me that you know comparing stalling on the ground to regain your cardio in BJJ is not the same thing as stalling on the ground in a match where you can be hit. Besides, if you stall now you're stood up.

yeah but it takes a few minutes to stand them up. The longest break you get in boxing is 60 seconds between rounds. I can stay in side mount, throw some slappy punches and make it last the whole round and if I'm not getting my cardio back, at least I'm not losing much and I can kill time and save everything for a last surge.

Originally posted by valetudo

Sherk challenged Floyd but Floyd said after the match he enjoys MMA but would never fight in it. Cintron couldn't sell PPVs to make him worth the millions. I wish he could though, that guy would be awesome to see in MMA. He was also a state champion wrestler in HS.

yeah it's a money thing, no argument there. Dana won't pay a boxer in his prime a comparable enough prize to make it worth him getting in the cage. He SAYS he will, but when it comes down to signing on the dotted line he makes excuses. Why would Floyd fight MMA when he's making $7 MILLION per fight in his own sport? That's a LOT of money man... and he has nothing to gain by getting in the cage where he knows he's gonna be taken down right away unless he can invest in two or three years of MMA training time first. Kermit would probably fight for 200k, but that's still a ton of money by MMA standards and Dana doesn't think it's worth it.

Originally posted by valetudo

The difference between a boxer going to MMA and an MMAer going to boxing is this:
A boxer adapting to MMA throws away years of technique learned in boxing because it's useless in an MMA bout. There's no reason for an MMAer to overtrain boxing because there's really no use.

An MMAer going to boxing would be throwing away years of his jiu-jitsu, wrestling, muay thai, etc..

A wrestler going to MMA throws away years of what he learned because many wrestling techniques are useless in MMA.

An MMAer going to wrestling throws away years of his boxing, muay thai, jiu jitsu.

Some things would transfer, but a lot probably not.

Can't disagree with any of that.

Originally posted by valetudo

The "good blue belt with good hands" thing is fading away pretty quick. That was true years ago but these guys are getting raped now and I'm glad to see it.

It's still valid. How long has it been since you've seen Chuck defending himself on the ground? Technically, all you REALLY need as a boxer in MMA is not to get taken down Going no-gi with punches thrown in means a lot of BJJ technique gets thrown out the window, which is why you see absolute monsters on the street or on the mat losing in the cage. The sweaty skin means no grip, the punches means you can't really take your time to set up anything. It's all a crazy scramble and your best asset is your base and your ability to stay on top. Submissions are usually very simple because the complicated stuff ain't going to happen. Teach a world class boxer how to resist a takedown and how to scramble back to his feet after being taken down and he would be competitive almost right away. Give him a couple years of training and he could be dominant.

Originally posted by valetudo

I wouldn't say being top in the world at boxing is harder than boxing top in the world at judo, wrestling, or jiu-jitsu. The technique and dedication required are similar.

I respect a boxer's skill just the same as I respect Cael Sanderson, Karelin, or Jacare's and Marcelinho Garcia's. They train hours every day to perfect the technique in the sport they like.

As far as your boxing experience being more exhausting than your mixed martial arts experience, I dunno what to say. Most people I know feel the same way as me, I'm sure some don't. Being new to any sport will always be more tiring despite your cardio efforts, but I don't know your background so I won't try to say.

I'm a BJJ blue belt and like most BJJ guys I've trained throwing hands too, but I'm certainly not a master of either sport... I just have a better acquaintance with them than most people. We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. IMHO boxing is much harder to train, it's far far FAR more painful in the training process and you just about have to insane to make it and I think most top class boxers are, in fact, insane. BJJ is FUN to train once you're in decent shape. Boxing hurts. In fact I won't even train full contact boxing anymore, I get a headache when I get hit and the blunt trauma to the head is too dangerous if you don't plan to make a living from it.
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#42

10-06-2007, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by valetudo

lol..smoke sounds like Jim Lampley.

Its simple logic. Great boxers had talent before they boxed just like other sports. The point that everyone overlooks is that most boxers are from the street. MMA is basically a street fight so I dont see the big hurdle. The fact is you watch mma and most of these guys have no talent, thats not to say that their all hacks but most are.

It's still entertaining, I watch all the ppv's because Im a fight fan but keep it real. Most of these guys dont even know how to punch, how often do you see a stiff punch in mma? Not to often, you see a lot of wide loopers and hay makers. Very few mma's punch properly. And when you see a guy throw a nice stiff punch the announcers go crazy and say " you see thats the kind of talent we have in the ufc". I see it all the time. You have all these failed boxers in mma and the fans go crazy for them. I'd drop their names for you except I dont know them. That itallion guy with the tats, Alexander - not a boxer but a talentless hack with power and a few others I cant think of right now.

Also look at some recent fights, Randy Coture vs Sylvia and Rampage vs Lidell. Both victors used very basic boxing technique to win their fights and the technique was sloppy. Both guys were standing straight up and were stiff, yet thier oppents couldnt take advantage of it. And in post fight comments both fighters said they worked in body movement and slipping punches. Just imagine what would happen if a guy with talent was in there.
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#43

10-06-2007, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by smoke

Both guys were standing straight up and were stiff, yet thier oppents couldnt take advantage of it. And in post fight comments both fighters said they worked in body movement and slipping punches. Just imagine what would happen if a guy with talent was in there.

They stand straight up for a reason, and they don't slip punches for a reason too You can't slip or duck in MMA because you'll eat a knee. You have to stand straight up, keep your eyes open and block the punch. The kicks make a lot of basic boxing technique too dangerous.
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#44

10-06-2007, 11:49 AM

currently, boxers are superior athletes BUT as the money in MMA gets bigger you're going to see a much higher quality athlete going into it rather than boxing. money will lead them to MMA rather than boxing.

as far as which sport requires more athleticism - don't know enough about MMA to make a judgement. just that boxing has always been a big time sport for some of the best Latinos and black athletes - even with the heavyweight division being a write off.

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#45

10-06-2007, 11:55 AM

yeah Mutt that's possible if the MMA money keeps going up. Baseball and football are already stealing a lot of athletes from boxing compared to decades past, no reason why MMA can't as well.

Most of the top boxers now are top athletes who are too violent to play a team sport, it used to be that boxers had most of the top athletes PERIOD, back when the HW champ was the most famous man in the world.
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#46

10-06-2007, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by dig420

They stand straight up for a reason, and they don't slip punches for a reason too You can't slip or duck in MMA because you'll eat a knee. You have to stand straight up, keep your eyes open and block the punch. The kicks make a lot of basic boxing technique too dangerous.

Yes I understand all of that but a boxer wouldnt be standing right in front of his oppenent either. It would all come down to footwork and balance. A great boxer is great at both. Very rarely do you see an mma control the ring and work the angles like a boxer would do. I see it as a boxer constantly busy on his feet circle at a high rate of speed moving in and out working the jab and throwing crosses. Then when he gets the mma off balance and on his heels lets his hands go and its over. The boxer would also be able to turn his oppenent, something you cant do in boxing. I know he wouldnt be able to punch to the head from behind but he could go to the body and get the mma to retreat which would take away his balance. Or he could choke him.

I just think a boxer has to good of footwork for these guys. Then you take into consideration their punching and it's a mismatch. The whole argument is based on the takedown. If the mma cant get the boxer down the fight is over. If he gets the boxer down theres a chance the boxer can get him to stall by holding or even stand back up.
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#47

10-06-2007, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by dig420

MMA just hasn't reached that level yet and I don't think it ever will because it's just too chaotic. Anyone can get knocked out at any time and the top guys don't stay on top long enough to really become superstars.

This is my concern with MMA. I hope it doesn't have to be this way, but even so, I'll still watch because fighting is entertaining. I've always felt that luck plays a huge role in MMA whereas in boxing only skill wins the day. One good smash to the face and it's all over in MMA. Maintaining superstar status also seems to be an issue right now for MMA fighters for this reason. Two superstars recently got demolished when they went from Pride to UFC, by "lesser" fighters and even a virtual unknown.

But maybe with more money and more popularity we'll see a new breed of fighters with world class ability that will change all of this, by bringing more consistency to the game.

It has some ways to go. There aren't many suburban kids much less street kids taking up martial arts lessons with the thought of pursuing a serious career with it.
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#48

10-06-2007, 12:02 PM

it's a mismatch as long as you keep it to just boxing, sure... allow kicking and it changes things, allow takedowns and it changes EVERYTHING. A boxer needs to cross-train to hang with these guys.

You don't see a lot of body punching because with no gloves, it's all about landing one clean shot to the chin. You usually don't have the time to break someone down to the body when one shot is going to decide the fight.
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#49

10-06-2007, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Mike33

But maybe with more money and more popularity we'll see a new breed of fighters with world class ability that will change all of this, by bringing more consistency to the game.

I'd like to see this, but I doubt we will. You'd have to change basic human physiology, it's the gloves that make the difference. To ensure that the more skillful guy has the most chance to win you'd have to take away headshots and I don't think you can do that.
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#50

10-06-2007, 12:04 PM

Just a bit of trivia. Anybody ever seen some of the old fights in the early 1900's? It seemed like boxing matches didn't stop until one guy fell. It wasn't like fights were 12 rounds. There was as many rounds as needed until one collapsed. That was brutal.
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