PirateBay files charges against media companies

The movie companies themselves aren't directly hacking piratebay..

Thoose companys are going to get owned!

fortune 500 companies > billions > lobbyist > laws

No they're not.

What if the hackers are in a country where it's legal to hack?

rigth wrong left right blah blah
this thred yet again remind me of how NARROW-MINDED some people are! They fucked up...period!

will76
xmas13

have you even read the info on mediadefender-defenders? too much text?

OF COURCE!

It is illegal for swedish people to download and spread copyright protected material...

OF COURCE!

It is illegal for swedish people to download and spread copyright protected material...

But they hired someone to do it for them, hence they are employes of the movie companies. Movie companies --> paycheck ---> hackers.

We are talking about sweden here and not the US.
We have democracy in sweden and everyone is equal in the eyes of the law.
You cant buy shit here for money. The only thing you can spend your billions on is better lawyers. But in this case that wont help much because PB has evidence on black and white.

But I thought in sweden it didn't matter as long as they aren't doing it directly

Isn't that the defense piratebay has been using all these years?

I think sweden is eventually going to get sick/pressured of all this torrent stuff and amend their laws

Sure, it might happend, no argue there.
But for now, its legal.

i love all the illegal torrent supporters in this thread that actually think people care and listen to what they have to say...I have most of them on ignore, haha

ignorant prick

Shakula, incorrect these days - thepiratebay is running trackers, which is essentially the "central list of files" which is what killed Napster. You don't have to host the file for it to be illegal.

You don't get it, do you?

The Pirate Bay fails the stink test because they specifically DON'T respond to notices of copyright material. You think "search engines don't have to", well, I got news for you dude. You need to go back and look at all that Perfect 10 has done with Google, from getting the image search function modified from it's original method to getting listings and domains removed from the SERPs.

Further, the piratebay not only operates the site (and profits from it) but they also operate the trackers, which is in integral part of the process of trading copyrighted material. Without the trackers, there would be no file trading. The trackers are the "closed network" (ala Napster) and steps could be taken at the tracker level to block copyrighted material. They choose not to do so, but rather choose to use this copyrighted material to make their search site more attractive to users. It isn't hard to see a direct relationship between the stolen content being offered for free, and that TPB directly benefits financially from the offerings provided by these trackers.

TPB could very easily exclude trackers that have copyright material. They choose not to, because it would kill the popularity of their site.

Please consider http://digital-law-online.info/cases/37PQ2D1590.htm for an indication of how this works in the US (yes, I know, TPB isn't in the US... but I am citing it to show you how this stuff happens in the real world). Knowing supporting the operations of pirates and profiting from their actions, even indirectly, creates liability. It is one of the reasons why DMCA is such a powerful tool, because one the notice of liablity has been filed with a company, they have to work to take action of the liability is there to be proven in a court of law.

I think that it is clear that the MPAA, RIAA, and others are now very focused on TPB and the Swedish Government. I would not at all be shocked to see a combination of legal action and much more public pressure applied for the Swedes to take action to stop the very obvious and very blatant abuses of intellectual property.

oh too funny. but what if the hackers didn't live Sweden why should they respect Sweden law. TPB doesnt live in the US and isn't subject to US Laws, you can't have it both ways.

Oh and you getting your info from TPB, did you see the emails? I am guessing you didnt, yeah I would believe what people steal for living say. how do you know they are not lieing, and this isn't some PR stunt.


Burn in hell pirate bay, I would love to take a trip to sweden and go piss on your servers/

beatdown? lol

did i point you out as one of them? my comments were more targeted to the assholes who say they are sending money to their defense fund. There is plenty of people in here defending them.

Before you say TPB isn't subject to US Laws better go to:

Circular 38a
International Copyright Relations of the United States


Sweden is part of the following conventions:

Sweden
Berne Aug. 1, 1904 (Paris)2
Bilateral June 1, 1911
UCC Geneva July 1, 1961
Phonograms April 18, 19733
UCC Paris July 10, 1974
WTO Jan. 1, 1995

Napster was/is a american company.
TPB just contains links/trackers to computers with the file you are looking for.
Nothing on TPB´s website is illegal, nothing.

Please stop the bullshit its boring, if it wasnt for giving away others copywritten work for free all these big BT's wouldnt be making a fucking dime.

Your likely just another pussy old man probably not even capable of taking a piss, but why not take a trip to Sweden rather than being another fake all talk internet tough guy?


I bet these same people bitching also bought their photoshop for a few dollars on ebay or from a torrent.

Think this one through... no they wouldnt' be employees they would be independent contractors.

If they were contacted and hired and they do their service in a location where their service is not against the law.... va va voom... no problem.

Please tell me that you think the people that run the movie studios and music studios are smarter than to hire little bobby in Burbank to hack TPB for them.

Last time I checked, giving out .torrent files containing no copyrighted material is not illegal.

The actual users of TPB are breaking the law, not TPB themselves. If they were hosting direct downloads from their site, they would be shutdown right away, but they are merely giving out instructions on where to get the material.

Will76 is un-informed as you keep saying good luck going after the hackers they are in other countries. Well this may be true, but they are going after the companies for contracting these people to damage their systems, and they have a very good chance to win. The e-mail evidence is concrete and clearly shows the intent of these companies.

It's funny that these big companies are the ones who are reduced to engaging in illegal activities when they cannot get their way.

DONATED $50 TO THE DEFENSE FUND.

yeap thats me how did you know.


wow mess with teh pirate bay and some peeps get maaad.

I would piss on the server, rip off the cover and then shit on the motherboard.

This is almost like making cartons pissing off the people in the middle east. Looks like we hit a weak spot. Don't make fun or threaten tpb.

Can everyone who has dontated or who would dontate if they had money, please post.

Im making a list of people to make sure to stay away from. well actually adding to an already existing list.

You guys all miss the point. ALL of you. Who the fuck cares about PB or any of those sites, you need to focus on the ACTUAL people that are providing the ACTUAL upload and ACTUAL copyrighted file(s). Start going after the end users. Make it public, let people know that they face criminal and civil actions against them for breaking the law. Do this and watch these sites start to dry up as people freak out over getting caught. You can't hide on the net, there is ALWAYS a way to track down the people providing the files.

i was referencing the US law because you were making the arguement that it was "head of the pin" legal defence when it is not, pirate bay does not have to comply with DMCA because they do not have a US branch.

The companies listed do have to because they have a Swedish branch.

I suggest you go to the reference specs for the bit torrent protocol because your talking out of your ass now

the tracker intiates the handshaking between the peers, using the meta data of the torrent file. While there are ways to make it smart tracker to cordinate piece distribution (to maximize seed density) those are UNAPPROVED extensions to the protocol.

The meta data of the torrent DOES NOT contain any copyright material, it the seeder who are breaking the law (assuming they don't have an extended fair use because the government taxes media ala canada) not the tracker

what pirate bay could do is irrelevant it only what they legally must do that is important. The fact is you could give all your money to charity, you have no obligation to do so.

again you are trying to get a foreign country to obey US laws, the DMCA has many problem one of which is the false reporting of copyright infringements for what is fair use of copyright material.

all you have to do is a google search viacom vs youtube and you will see a documented record of this type of overstatement.

Viacom claimed infringement on anything that had their keywords defined (including fair use parodies) resulting in a massive INAPPROPRIATE take down request that banned a large amount of LEGAL content.

Addition, you could do this with any of the file sharing site, rapidshit, anyone. Get some court orders that make them give you the user information on the person that uploaded the actual file, go after that person directly. Seriously, how long do you think it would take for word of this to get around the net, that if you upload a file thats someone else's, the guys in suits are going to show up at your door. That, and the fact that those end users are not going to have the "Deep Pockets" that some of the other targets might have, should actually make it even easier.

first of all pirate bay is not going after the hackers themselves, so there is no requirement that they respect swedish law. the companies who hired them are the ones that are being targeted (and only if they have a swedish branch).

It like hiring a hitman, if the hitman is an undercover cop who would never commit the actual crime of murder you are still guilty of breaking the law by HIRING THE HITMAN.

Pirate bay doesn't even have to prove that the hacker hired did anything, the act of hiring them is enough.

as to the evidence look at it your self pirate bay has included it as a torrent for download

you will need to use the big bad torrent protocol to get it.

you one american hating mother fucker, but yet i bet you promote your site and make money from americans....


I'm off to watch NFL football

I'd like to see where this is going...

Gideon, you would be talking out your ass now.

Without the trackers, the torrent world would fall to pieces. It is an integral part now of finding the files and feeding those torrent listing sites. Without the trackers, the files would be much harder to find. In fact, if all the trackers dropped off the face of the internet tomorrow, it would become almost impossible for people to find and download the stolen materials. From Wikipedia:

You are so seriously talking out of your ass.

You are also a very, very poor reader. I said:

This is an example only of how the rules and regulations of different countries can be applied. In this case, it is clear (at least in the US) that you don't have to actually be giving away or selling stuff to profit from it's distribution.

"fair use" doesn't mean unlimited free distrubution. Viacom reached only as far one way as youtube had reached the other. Fair use of a short (promo length) clips isn't a real issue, but putting up entire episodes or complete sequences from shows or movies is a real issue. If an end user can easily click a series of links and enjoy an entire show or movie, then fair use isn't a real issue.

Of course, you know that the viacom vs Youtube thing is ongoing, and youtube is very likely to get it's corporate dick slapped into the dirt very hard indeed.

But then again, you are mistakenly using US only law, aren't you? You argue the points only when you think they benefit you? Bad debate techniques!

As for the hackers, TPB would have to prove that the swedish affiliates are the companies that specifically hired the hackers, which is VERY unlikely. Further, I doubt greatly that the "proof" put forth by TPB is anything other than a fabrication from whole cloth.

funny arguing i am a poor reader when you don't even read your own quotes properly

"in the absence of extensions to the original protocol, the only major critical point"

the bit torrent protocol has evolved since version 1

azuerus has magnet links which allow you to discover peers just from the torrent meta data.

re-read the quote you posted and you can see that it 100% compatible with my statement
the tracker DOSE NOT participate in the distribution of copywrited material it only initiated the handshaking.

You want further proof, try loading the same file on multiple trackers and then only use one of the torrent files created. You will only connect to the peers in that torrent session. IT IS NOT FILE BASED TRANSFERING (like napster) BUT SESSION BASED. The tracker only initiates a session.





VIACOM over reported infringement, they claimed copyright ownership of the "baby john stewart" (ie john stewart voice track overlayed on a baby talking) which is clearly fair use derivation under US law. (parody)

as well as multiple people parodying (pretending to be characters in senfield)

There is absolutely no way that claim of ownership is valid under US law

I suggest you read the swedish law because you are again talking out of your ass because that is not how the law works.

It's just as illegal to tell someone where to fuck a 12 year old, or find the crack, or be the pimp (rather than the hooker) as it is to commit the ensuing crime... Your logic is fucked up.

Gideon, you are funny. Most of the torrent sites don't want to host the meta data because they know that in a legal sense, that turns them potentially into the actual source for the content in question.

This is the point exactly. Without the trackers, the end users cannot find the peers to get the file. This is the effective indexing "source" for the files in question. Without it, there would be a very few people with encoded files and no methods for anyone else to discover them. They could, well, email their friends I guess, but other than that, there would be no method for anyone to discover the content. That is the key to it all. The tracker initiates the process. No tracker, no process.

You are a fool arguing a less and less valid point all the time. You should stop before you prove yourself an idiot.

As for Viacom, they did overeach (again, I mentioned that) but as a whole Viacom has a massively winning hand over youtube, and they will prevail. I can assure you that youtubes business model and general site functioning will be entirely different probably within the next 12 months.

As for Swedish law, well, unless your swedish is really good, I somehow doubt you have bothered to read it either. I just look at the basic concept of who they are apparently suing (a bunch of swedish companies) for something that may have been done by other companies (not inside sweden). It would seem to me that they are caught up in the same house of mirrors they are trying to hide in. Plus, can you imagine in court attempting to say "these guys are trying to hack us to stop us from distributing their stolen copyrighted works"?

I don't know what Swedish is for "hahahahaha" but I am sure the judges will manage.

damnnnnnnn

The Swedish Chef laughed the best... and I quote "Bjor Bjor de dor la la !!"

Swedish for ha ha ha ha

they have balls you have to give them that..

how many people in this thread are using pirated software? show of hands...


...now of all those raised hands, whos flapping off at the mouth about how bad tpb is and how they should be shut down?


$10 says 4 out of 5 of those are avid users of tpb...

There is no different between having illegal content hosting or just pointing to it.It's still bad.

so now you are admitting the tracker only helps you find the peers (aka the people actually trading the copywrited material) the problem with trying to extend the law to say that action is ALSO a copyright infringement is that SEARCH ENGINES also help you find such infringing sites.

SEARCH ENGINES like GOOGLE allow you to find sites that stream copywrited material. holding them responsible for the infinging action of someone they link too is not a valid arguement.

LET HIT A LITTLE CLOSER TO HOME

AS a tgp you trade traffic with other TGPS should you be held responsible for the copyright infringement of all your tradeing partners.

IF someone post a gallery with stolen content should you have to pay for that infringement because you facilitated the access to the stolen content.

this is the problem with the bitching/ whinning cry babies when you use the same "loop hole" to protect yourself it just business, when the pirate bay uses the same "loop hole" they are theives.

You don't like the loop hole get it closed, but you will have to live with the consequences when it is turned against you.

given the number of abuses of the current laws (VIACOM's overly broad infringement claim) i think the laws are strong enough already if not a little too strong.

Tee-hee snicker. I always love these sorts of idiotic arguments.

Search engines (based in the US) are obliged by DMCA notices (again, see perfect 10s actions). Items get removed all the time from Google because they have been notified. Further, google also has taken steps to block access to sites that have malware or viruses on them.

Google pays attention to DMCA notices and takes action. TPB does not. In fact, TPB is quite proud and adamant that they remove nothing ever. A "fuck you" attitude for sure.

As for TGPs, well, again... if someone contacted me and said "the galleries you are linking to here, here and here contain stolen material" I would contact the owner of those sites and ask for information. It is my OBLIGATION under DMCA to do exactly that. When in doubt, I would remove the content.

I would not knowingly link to stolen material, as I would not knowingly install a virus or a malware installer on my servers, nor would I knowingly link to them.

Good businesses don't do it.

There is no "loop hole". I dare you to set up a TGP that links to CP for a little while and see how long before you site gets shut down.

The laws are not strong enough, in fact, they are weak as hell. When it comes to copyright material, the rule should be "the user has to prove they have the rights" not for the real own to prove that they don't. The current system is bullshit, allowing companies to continuously infringe on copyright and just say "oops" and take the stuff down when they receive a notice, with one notice per item. It makes the process of protecting content often more expensive than producing it. It is a total bullshit situation that has allowed way to many companies to create sites with the "user sourced content" that is mostly just stolen from others.

You are an arrogant little fucker. Does you mom know you are in the internet?

pirate bay does not have to obey DMCA
just like you don't have to obey PIPEDA.

without the safe harbour provision of the DMCA you would be liable for the contribuitory infringement automatically. The ability to remove the offending content is WHAT GRANTS YOU PROTECTION.

Pirate bay only has to obey the swedish equivalent to be immune to the contribitory infringement claim, and since like canada they don't have a contributory infringement (i think it is for the same reason as Canada because recording media is taxed and the taxes are paid out in support of the entertainment industies that are being infringed) they don't have to do shit to avoid the lability.

Get it thru your thick skull, if they were in US (without taxes on media as a payment for infringement) their actions WOULD BE A CRIME, because they live in a country where contribuitory infringement is paid for by the government they are not guilty of any crime.


Just because you are too cheap or lazy to setup the necessary company structure within that country to claim your share does not give you the right to violate US AND SWEDISH law to exact a type of revenge (yes US law makes paying someone to hack anothers companies site illegal)


AH THE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT ARGUEMENT
are you willing to live under the same rules

so you will not list another gallery on your tgp until you have a lawyer go over every word of every contract to make sure that the content if properly licienced to be used in the way it is being used
if not this is EXACTLY THE DOUBLE STANDARD I AM TALKING ABOUT

Can I say this? Jane you ignorant slut.

Let me start at the end... "Guilty until proven innocent" isn't the case at all. You are straining reality in all sorts of directions trying to cover the failings in your logic. If you don't have the rights to something (or don't know if you have the rights to something), the decision shouldn't be "put it up until someone complains". Further, knowing that you have in the past gotten huge numbers of complaints, your ongoing operating strategy shouldn't be "put it up until someone complains". At some point, either as an individual or a corporation, the site operators should become aware that some significant percentage of the material they are trading in is illegal, and move to take steps to stop the infractions.

The "out" in DMCA is really intended to protect companies and individuals for errors that are made, but the intent is on an occassional basis. A mulligan. A "oops" because when you accept content from users, there will occassionally be issues. But when I go to torrent sites, I see page after page of material that isn't licensed (and could never be licensed for free distribution). Every shot they take is a mulligan. That isn't the intent of DMCA, and that is the point of abuse that many people use. It is the reason that DMCA needs to be reopened and cleaned up because a small exception create to protect occassional issues is being used as a business model for certain companies, leading to mass copyright violations.

You have to look at the results to understand why the law isn't working.

BTW, I wish you would get over the "they don't have to by swedish law". I don't give a flying fuck what they do in Sweden. But they are distributing the material into the US, and that is an issue.

As for Canada, the courts have ruled that the distribution of music via P2P networks isn't illegal, as the duplication media (CDs,DVDs, and even MP3 players) are taxed and those funds forwarded to the music producing companies and distributed according to a formula. In the end, the public pays for the music, they just don't realize it.

Your arguments are weak and all over the road. Care to address the tracker thing again? I am enjoying watching you make an ass of yourself.

again lobby to change the law, DON"T USE IT AS A JUSTIFICATION TO BREAK THE LAW

ok since you want to talk about US laws

1. The US supreme court has explictly ruled that DMCA does not apply to non- US citizens even if they are distributing to US citizens. The US citzens would be breaking US laws and the foreign country resident would be violating their countries copyright laws (the convention referenced previously recognizes the validity of the copy right not the validity of the home countries infringement laws). Which means under US LAW pirate bay has a legal right to say fuck you to any DMCA complient request

2. New York Supreme court case has ruled that using torrents as a back up recovery method is legitimate under US "fair use" provisions. In that case a media company (time warner) sued an individual for downloading their TV shows using torrents. That individual proved he had a valid right to archive that show by buying a cable subscription to that show. He had a right to make digital copies, he had a right to remove the commercials and he had the right to back it up using online back up services. He successfully made the arguement that IF it was legal for him to recover (download) a tv show he had bought an archive right to from this online backup service he had a right to use the swarm as a similar free alternative. While the ruling in his favor applied to a licienced right to archive and fair use for TV shows it really applies to all licienced archive rights. So using porn sites as an example a former US member of a pornsite has a right to use the swarm as a back up recovery of any file his subscription allowed him to download. Which means not all US citizens are violating your copywrite when they use pirate bay.

IF you were taking care of all these people who have a legitimate "fair use" right to use pirate bay then you could argue there distribution to the US would be purely illegal activity but no porn site does this.

Why should pirate bay have to give up these legitimate customers just because you don't want to incure the expense of supporting them, or incur the expense of finding those people who are abusing the pirate bay service to actually steal your content.

Why should pirate bay have to give up their US supreme court granted right to ignore the DMCA just because you are too cheap to go after the US citizens who are actually infringing on your content.


your arguement is we should be allowed to break the law because the laws that pirate bay is 100% in complience with are just not good enough

Which comes back to the same point i have been making

lobby to change the law, or change your business model.

just understand that if you completely close the "loop hole" you seriously hurt yourself too because you make the honest "oops" mistake a $20,000 per instance infringement.

My prediction is that Pirate's Bay will be dead and buried within a year. I'm sure something else will come along to replace it, however.

People say that every year, it never happens. And nothing needs to replace it since their are plenty of sites who do the exact same thing.

Gideon, do you get up in the morning by yourself or does someone at Pirate Bay come over and prop you up in front of your computer and spoon feed you pap?

Your P2P arguments are laughable: Valid "backup recovery" is a total joke, because if you had a valid copy of a software and a valid license, you wouldn't need a "crack code generator" in every software program on torrent sites. People wouldn't have to publish haxor'ed copies or otherwise provide access, because a valid license holder would have a key (usually on paper). The software could be provided as is without issue.

It is clear that 99.9999999999% of all users of torrent sites are looking to get something for nothing, a something they don't have a valid license for. Otherwise they wouldn't be called "pirate bay" but "backup software central" or "the recovery center". The argument is meaningless becuase the people on TPB and other torrent sites are fully aware that the material they list is either entirely pirated or of questionable sourcing, and they don't blink.

As for DMCA, it is the American version of laws that exist in many countries under various provisions. The example is all of the trackers and bittorrent sites that have in the last few months been shut down by the Dutch courts. Past "safe havens" don't remain safe havens, and even Sweden is likely to change it's ways in the near future.

Torrent sites have a real issue. More than 50% of the torrents are served up by maybe 3 or 4 sites total, and the total number of trackers has dropped enormously in the last year. It really only takes one or two more major bombs to set the P2P communities back years, because of the way they are structured. They have literally retreated to the very few places they have left to "legally" operate (sweden and china being to two biggest) and the chinese situation is such that it could expire at any time, especially if chinese authorities find out that porn and other degenerate material is being distributed from china. The anti-porn squads over there are very effective indeed.

P2P will survive, but it is very likely that it will go more the route of putting up older material that copyright holders aren't chasing after, more specialized material, and more than likely mostly behind password protected sites with private invite systems. The public P2Ps packed with current (and often not yet released) movies, porn, msuic, and software are sitting on a bomb that will explode sooner or later.