Question to Fabian and everyone.

fitty..............Questions

btw my comment about dating of word "pornography"- was specifically about the word ponography in English language. I idnt know New orleans imported the first mag, niiiice

"Pornographie" was in use in the French language during the 1800s. The word did not enter the English language as the familiar conjunction until 1857[5] or as a French import in New Orleans in 1842.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography

sweet

sent!

replied.

True once you get past a certain size it needs managers at the helm. Still needs engineers in the engine room, cooks in the galley, etc.

Does the managing director tell the cook how to feed people and the engineers how to fix the motors?

So let's go extreme to make your post look very wrong. So a guy using your method. Tests with these girls to find which ones work the best.













And don't tell me someone will like it or if it's in the right niche. One is stabbing in the dark, the other is knowing what niche to fit her into.

How about we go to another extreme.
You watch the whole video and try to understand what somebody else is saying?

Your designs were good and I liked them.

Think of this question like this. If you could look at a site and see what the main focus of it was, beyond it being just a teen, cuckold or leg site. Could you then know the way to make a banner or tour work better?

For instance with my sites, it's mostly about teens who are cute, teasing and naughty sexually. Would you see that and know how to make the design better to target the buyers who will most be turned onto that?

With BF it might be because I've never seen his work, amateurs who love to have their feet and toes played with. Just normal GND with a thing about having their feet played with. With Leg Sex it was more about upmarket women demanding men worship them at their feet. Cuckold can be GND who don't get it from hubby and out on the prowl. Or over sexed rich ladies who can never get enough.

This knowledge of your product allows you to aim to the market you supply better. And you're testing is just fine tuning ad not some search in the dark to get it right. In terms of getting things like text and "Calls to Action" it's essential. A call to action that says "Buy here" is never going to work as well as one that appeals as much as "Susan's husband is away and she's waiting for you." Extreme and the last one off the top of my head, still it shows how knowledge of the product and the market works.

No but he makes sure the cook is feeding the people to their liking and that the engineer is keeping the motors running smooth.

None of the above by the way.

The girls above, not the poll.

Don't you know that Paul knows everything about everything? People like Fabian could learn a lot from this retired player.

i'll say less then 1%.

but hey what matters is CRO and data which are facts, not some pornographer guru to say hey this works and this doesn't - data is everything

why do you care though or are you making a statement that they need a pornographer on staff as a point?

just curious...

to sell 'product' you need 'users of product' in the staff
therefore
to sell porn you need viewers of pornography in the staff.

otherwise your quote should be 'To sell meat you need butchers in the staff'


Continuing your meat products example.

you make 15 types of sausage
the spicy one sells the most
the 1980's flavored boring english sausage made by the old butcher that's not really up to it anymore sells the least.

your customers have spoken, they want more spice.

Or to another extreme. Show me the video and try to understand what I'm saying.

"Testing in the dark is harder than testing in the light."

Now you can take that literally and do more trolling.

No Paul, it is not.

1) Data can tell you anything.

2) The more traffic you have the faster that data comes in.

3) Manwin has enough traffic to know more about what converts in 24 hours than you've learned in 24 years.

Same reason online poker players run circles around the old schoolers, more data.

I always wondered why everyone on GFY always calls Markham a crazy old codger... now I get it.

When you fail at doing something you don't tell the company that does it best what they are doing wrong?

I'm sorry for asking this. Were you in the porn business during the 70s and 80s? Because if you were you wouldn't make that statement.

Why do you all keep letting him troll you?

Markham is clueless about most subjects...and will die being clueless...but until he does he will continue to post his clueless babble.

Now I get what you're saying and it's spot on.

Give free movies to millions and eventually the data will tell you what one works the best.

I suppose you're spot on right here and if that's how it's done today then no wonder the buyers don't buy like they used to. Because by the time you've finished testing the buyer has become a freeloader.

Here's the way us old codgers did it in the days before you bright young things. We took a person like Steve Hicks or Lindsay Honey and listened to their thoughts and ideas of how to put together a site for glamor or Gonzo site. We put them in charge of building the product to what ever level we wanted. We ended up testing whether a girl in black stocking worked better than a girl in white stockings or a picking up a girl on the street or in a train worked best.

Usually we found they both worked.

OK extreme example. A marketing term that has been used for a long time is this one.

During WW2 the best way to bring down a plane from the ground was to pepper the sky with Ack Ack. Today they use a guided missile. WW2 had a 1-100 chance of a shell hitting a plane. Missiles are 90% effective, if a lock can be acquired.

Yes it's technology, it illustrates the point a guided missile is better than a blanket tactic.

It didn't take me 24 years to learn. It took about 16. From 0 to 16 years of age.

Now if you take a guy who knows his niche, style, the problems of presenting it in today's business world. Then you're testing a great product. Not throwing up 100,s of free samples to millions of consumers to find what works where and for what.

Think about what I'm trying to say to you, then look at where your traffic converts best. A site put together by a guy who knows what he's doing. Or a site where the guy is still testing?

Then why are you trying to tell me how to do it?

This is nothing to do with Manwin. Just Fabian's statement about going towards a more technical based company.

Your last post showed me obvious flaws which I pointed out. Counter them with a reasoned debate. And include this;

Would a Manwin glamor site put together be person like Steve Hicks, Viv Thomas convert the same traffic better than put together by a technician who was into technical things?

Horses for courses, round pegs for round holes, if the cap fits, etc. OR Jack of all trades master of none? One/two man bands have no options. Big companies do and use them.

Manwin bought Twistys which is run by content people who know pretty well what their users want

well this is done by countless companies every single day in the form of surveys, taste tests, and product samples giving out by the..... millions. in fact, some PAY YOU TO SAMPLE ther stuff or pay you to take a survey or pay you to watch commercials and tell them which is best. Have you never been paid to do this? I have, plenty when young, used to do it for beer money in teens. lol

they send out samples of millions of products every day via mail then collect data. products range from cereal, to coffee, etc... i get them in mail constantly.

As i said, marketing is not photography. ;)

and seriously when it comes to "movies" - they test movies now to see which ENDING they want to put in the movie

LOLOLOL

they let people watch the movie for free then see which ending works best

yep, data is everything when it comes to MARKETING.

so very true...

I actually thought of replying to ST but his reply is so dumb and easy to shoot down, I couldn't be bothered.

Madalton comes up with the answer for most of us. Shap built something that met the needs of his customers, so met the needs of his affiliates. Built it to a size that Manwin bought it.

He wasn't fapping around testing to see if Jana Cova converted better than some girl who just looks nice. Used good shooters, not people who could point a camera. Because he knew the difference and didn't need to guess.

thats not what i said though

Um, Twisty's has a rating system and I believe the surfers vote for Treat of the Year? I figure they didn't always have their cms coded with that from the beginning, but that now gives them the data they need.

How do you think they decided which girls to pick for solo sites?? The popular ones.

and hey, I'm female... if *I* can sell porn to men as a straight female, anyone can figure it out. Stats ftw

Yes a rating system is good for fine tuning. Stats are good for fine tuning. But that's all. Relying on stats without the prior knowledge of what sells, leaves us in the situation of giving away to millions for 1,000s to buy.

Could a Steve Hicks glamor site sell better than a Joe Soap's glamor site. Given the same traffic and stats?

Quoted for truth!

Looks like she managed to escape from the basement ...

Barry there was a lot more around in the late 70s and 80s than the type of porn you talk about. Well there was where I lived. There was amateur, gonzo, girl next door, glamor. Styles have changed a bit, but the only real change was the teen market exploded as a whole niche itself.

Pre video, you had to know how to film. Because film was very expensive, it couldn't be put onto a monitor to check if the lighting was right, editing was a whole different field. Even loading an old time film reel was a pain, had to be done in the 100% black out or light would ruin the film. It was loaded onto cassettes. Getting porn film, was a lot of trouble as few labs would handle it. The whole thing was a big deal and cost a lot of money. And easy to fuck up.

Then duplication, do you know the problems involved duplicating a film reel as opposed to duplicating a Beta tape to VHS?

Therefore there was very little produced, compared with the video days that followed. A movie was pretty well guaranteed to make money if the hurdles were jumped. The returns on a single film would leave you breathless. Compared with Hollywood for dollars invested and dollars profit, it was on par with the block busters. Smaller market YES. Micro supply YES MOST CERTAINLY. This resulted in great returns.

The situation was that the people wit the skills to produce movies were not your amateur porn producers. They were trained people who wanted to hit the biggest market. Why spend the same amount of money on a film with a limited audience when for the sale money you can hit one with a much larger audience?

Still there were amateurs producing porn. On 8mm B/W and color. Read this to get an insight into the 60s porn business in the UK. There were lots of little people doing things on the QT that never made it into the big wider market. Many because it was illegal and the "professionals" had the top end dominated. Still the first Color Climax's would today pass as amateur. The photosets and films I was posing for were definitely amateur.

All this changed when Beta Cam cameras came down to a price, some who couldn't afford or shoot film, could afford to buy. Suddenly taps were cheap, 60 minutes I think were the first. screw up a scene, rewind and shoot that bit again, put the image on a monitor, edit on a reel to reel edit deck. No processing to get it developed. And duplicating was a breeze. Buy 100 VCRs, 1 beta cam player, 100s of leads and hit a button.

When I first started shooting video in 78/79. I used a video camera and trust me it was amateur. All of Astral Blue is amateur. Some of the models aren't. But the style was amateur.

The video camera caused an explosion in porn production. All of a sudden many could shoot and produce porn. Those who did it well and marketed themselves right, made money and prospered, those who didn't died a death.

Need I tell you about this man?



The only difference between this and today is what exactly? Walk up to a girl on the street, talk her into doing something naughty and sexy, film it, sell it.

And so it goes on.

The biggest difference between today and then? We didn't give it to a 1,000 so 1 would buy and call it marketing or selling.

Boggles the fucking mind.

You see, you're expert enough to tell the difference and don't need stat to tell you she's not going to sell much.

To cherrylula and ST.

Anyone can shoot a naked girl.
Anyone can make a banner.
10,000s can make TGP.
10,000s can make a site.
Anyone can drive traffic.
Anyone can put a video online.
Anyone can sell porn
Anyone can read stats.

Can anyone shoot a girl, make her look like she'll fuck the world and sell the set for $1,000s?
Can anyone make a banner that grab the viewer enough to make them click on it?
Can anyone design a really great TGP?
Can anyone make a great site?
Can Anyone can drive enough traffic to make a profit they can live on?
Can anyone can put a video online that will sell well?
Can anyone can sell porn well enough to make a living?

The answers to the above is no. not everyone can do this well enough to make a living or even a profit.

Can anyone can read stats. Yes, unless they truly dumb. Seeing one does 1-10,000 and the another one does 1-1,000 is pretty simple. And if you want to debate that come back with decent relevant points.

My point is it takes more than a technical guy reading stats to do very well at anything but getting the technical stuff right.

really? you gave it your best at all of the above and failed. go look at all your old threads.

you should stop talking and listen more. would do you a world of good, but at your age it's too late. maybe in another incarnation.

He's an aged Al Bundy still talking about scoring 3 touch downs in his junior year of high school football.. except he only scored one and it was just because he happened to be in the right place at the right time. Now he thinks he's a coach because at the end of it all, if he can't believe he achieved something, then he has to confront the horrible fact that he's been nothing but a failure.

more trolling

This is the excuse given often but don't believe it. You do not troll with consistent 3000 word replies, links to 17 websites and by shooting some crappy content for the company you're jealous of to "prove you still have it". He really believes what he types and he tried damn hard in that video to do a good shoot that was ultimately boring as hell.

he's not trolling. he truly believes in the nonsense he posts while real trolls do it for the lulz.

Yep Markham is not a troll.

But if you treat him as a troll life is sooooo much easier guys. No in length replies you have to write, no head against the wall, no walls of text, no frustration about how dumb someone can be, etc.

win win win

There's an out house joke in there somewhere.

100 longwinded trolls.