Internet Freedom

[post censored]

You are not serious. I think you don't realise we are talking about a police state.
3 strikes and you are out with some laws like that ?
Cya in jail....

Which part?

Not to use lame analogies, but its like throwing the baby out with the bath water -- or cutting off your head to cure a headache.

we are no more in 1999

Read the bill. That's simply not true. You're argung against something that would be very bad if it were real, but it simply isn't real. In fact, under this bill, if the site owner responds to complaints he's off the hook. Also if the site is mainly something other than theft, he's off the hook. Only if he makes a site designed and marketed as a theft ring and fails to handle complaints can a judge order it be delisted.

The Patriot Act was designed to protect our freedom too.

The idea behind the bill is generally a good one, but a power-grab is lying in the grass.

I can imagine the heart of this idea fitting on maybe one or two pages of legal text.

The current version is already 70 pages, and who knows how much it will grow and change by the end.

eliminate piracy and we'll see.

Power grab? You mean returning power back to content owners and taking it away from theives? No Avatars? Going to jail for breaking the terms of service of a website? Come on. The more I hear these sky is falling arguments against it, the more I know this is the best thing ever. Baby out with the bath water? Is the baby the ability to take copyrighted material until you get caught and DMCA'd by the owner, then just to have it uploaded again? Then yeah, throw it all out.

why does everyone keep saying the government doesn't like porn? take away the pirating, and just imagine the taxes paid...

No one's fucked up this industry more than the people in this industry.

I'm not going to revisit the insane pro-tube vs anti-tube battle again, but if any of you still believe that giving away unlimited porn, while trying to SELL PORN, is a brilliant business plan, then I don't know what to say.

Piracy sucks, but it is only a portion of the revenue loss. The bulk of the loss is self-inflicted.

Now all of the "small government conservatives" here, are so confused that they are willing to allow BIGGER government to step in and play Daddy for us.

It's a trojan horse I tell you!

I'm not wanting anybody (especially the govt.) to play "daddy".

But you know as well as I do that the DMCA laws are outdated. And I have already stopped caring about the dumbass sites that have joined into the race to the bottom...if they want to put all their content up for free so they can get a big traffic number, then that is their business.

But as for you and me? We are shooting unique stuff. Not generic porn. And when our content is stolen and posted up on big tubes, torrents, file shares, and pirate forums it hurts our business big time.

Having the laws changed to reflect new technology is not asking the govt. to play "daddy" in my opinion. It's simply putting the proper laws in place to go after thieves.

If you truly believe that the U.S. govt. is going to be expending time and energy chasing down people's avatars on message boards or going after YouTube and Google, I think you are mistaken.

All this law is going to do for us is give us a way to FINALLY have our attorneys move on these thieving scumbags. The govt. not only won't play "daddy", but they aren't going to lift a finger to help us in any way.

But the law is the law is the law. And we will finally have the ability to take legal actions against pirate sites. And when we do...and WIN, then the authorities will be able to take the actions that the new law empowers them to.

That's the way I see it. As I already said...I'm not going to lose one tiny iota of freedom from this bill. Nobody will.

If the average person wants to upload something on the internet..then they will have to CREATE it themselves. Just like they used to have to do. And webmasters will have to actually WORK their own sites...just like they used to do.

True user uploaded content will actually become REAL amateur porn and the all around innovation and creativity of the internet will increase in my opinion. How? Easy. People will have to LEARN to do shit again and create content and film stuff and write songs, etc. The only "innovation" I see from piracy is figuring out better ways for people to steal shit and upload it. Whoopty doo. I ain't impressed.

Anyway...millions of us were "free" on the internet before user upload shit became so prevalent. Am I "more free" now because I can steal something and upload it? Does that make me more "innovative"?

No.

And this is exactly the kind of law I've been calling for for the last couple of years.

When a bill finally is passed that replaces the bullshit whack-a-mole DMCA law that has stripped our industry to the bone...that is the day that things will turn around for this industry and real porn producers.
And it's also the day that pirates and ALL people (ones who advertise on their sites, their hosting companies, and every little bottom feeding fringe person) who make money directly or indirectly from other people's stolen content will begin to hurt as badly as they have been hurting all of us.

As if the freedom of speech exists only to ensure that any random idiot can upload any clip he likes to youtube, instantly and anonimously. Or use any picture he likes as his avatar on a message board. And if he has to use his iphone to snap a pic for his avatar, oh noes, totalitarism and oppression.

I'll rephrase it for more relevance.

First they came for the shoplifters, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a shoplifter.

Then they came for the burglars, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a burglar.

And then they came after me.

Maybe that's because stealing other people's work and posting it at my torrent site wasn't such a good idea after all?

It's already illegal to steal copyright content.

You are getting too old to think straight. Piracy is at its current levels because of technology, not legislation. Compression algos and codecs making files smaller on one hand while broadband makes connections faster.

In the 90's people bought DVD's because it would have taken years to download them with their 33.6 modems. They didn't even have Divx codecs to compress the mpegs back then.

People didn't rip your websites because it would have taken months and they needed to use the phone occasionally.

The cat is not going back in the bag, old man.

We might need freedom from internet ...

QFT

It just sounds like tech has caught up with people's flawed ethics and morality. What if they knew there would be consequences for doing the wrong thing? Wouldn't that make them think twice before doing it?

I am not saying I agree with you but even if you are 100% right ethics and morality will continue to be "flawed" regardless of legislation and technology and human ingenuity will continue to outpace the "law".

Example: In the US Drugs are illegal, and they are everywhere. Prostitution is illegal and it is everywhere.

People will find a way to do what they want regardless of the law and everyone knows it.

There are only 2 kinds of people who want this:

1) over the hill content producers who think they are somehow going to bring back the 90's by turning downloaders into Felons and

2) people with a hidden agenda to use claims of IP violations to stifle real freedom of speech.

Even if some of the content producers win it wont be the ones producing adult content cashing in, it will be the ones producing shitty movies like Green lantern and shitty artists like Justin Bieber. Nobody gives a fuck about porn, except while they are actively masturbating. The second they cap that geyser with a sock they cant turn it off fast enough.

Jesus fucking Christ.

A law is proposed to curb piracy and some prick throws in quotes about facism.

Freedom does not mean that you get to steal without threat of sanction.

But the Nazi thing seems be be used a lot in US political debate. Same with Obamacare, same with gun control debates. It just sounds silly to me.

True, this is going to hurt a lot of sites that we all love, but anything that forces creation of original content, instead of pilfering from other sources is fine by me.

Anything? Really? Because for example burning all of society to the ground would probably force a lot of creativity and original works.

before internet and legislation


after internet and legislation

So speaks a man who advertises on piracy sites.

So speaks a man without a brain. There was porn before the Internet.

You will risk the consequences of posting pirated content?

anyone who thinks that is a pirate or piracy supporter. The more money you make creating = the more creation.

This argument is falling into two camps. those who think they can't be hurt from piracy or benefiting from it and those who are getting hurt by it. If I plug into Vendzilla's webcam sites and download the live content for free, he'll be calling in this law faster than I can say troll.

If I plug into any of the supporters sites or wares and use it for free, they are all over me.

Porn existed long before the Internet. It was available in most civilised countries and withing reason pretty well uncensored. In certain places there was a limit. Could still produce, sell and buy magazines like Mayfair, Playboy etc and make money.

The "freedom" slant is "Freedom for me to steal what you have and benefit from it."

Make plans, this law will pass and all the bleating in the world won't stop it. It will need the Supreme Court to do that.

Paul, I went on anti-Apartheid marches in the 90s, does that make me black?

I get that the problem is real, but forcing ISP's hosts and etc. to police the internet and giving the DOJ authority to shut down websites with no due process is not the solution.

And if you think pirated porn is what they are after then you are fucking deluded. The TSA is looking for nothing in the world but drugs all the while crying about "terrorism bla bla bla african guy blew up his penis on a plane, so dump that water bottle and give me your nail clippers".

This is nothing but the government wanting more control over the internet after watching governments topple all over the world with the help of social networking.

If the law was limited to your interpretation, them I'm totally onboard. Let's read the final version of the draft, and see how it is ultimately implemented.

To believe someone else has the right to profit from OUR EXCLUSIVE CONTENT, that we paid to produce, without our consent, is obviously absurd, and I'm surprised it has ever happened, and equally surprised by how long it is taking to correct.

I'm on your side 100% on this, but I worry that the new laws proposed will be overreaching, and filled with surprises, with consequences and results we are not discussing right now.

For now, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I still believe the devil is in the details.

Considering the special and government interests that are onboard with this, makes me to believe it will not be helpful in the end.

It sure smells a whole lot like bigger government and internet censorship, packaged and sold as an anti-piracy bill.

I hope I'm wrong...

Losing our rights and freedoms under the guise of necessary protection, is always a slippery slope. Our privacies and freedoms are reduced on a daily basis. It is happening slowly, with one new law at a time, but it is happening.

I see one problem with this, If they block pirate sites from the US People who live in the US wont see their content on the pirate sites anymore but it will still be there sitting on the internet on a server in some other country. It kinda defeats the whole idea of policing your own content.

This has very little to do with "piracy," it's just sold that way for people not paying attention.

SOPA, and the expansion of CFAA amount to an all out war on Internet freedom by the federal government. They are losing the propaganda war, and they need to start heavily censoring the Internet now. Get ready..

Very similar legislation is being worked on, or is already being implemented, in most Western countries.

Dream on. For a very very tiny few it might mean more money. Unless it brings down the free tubes and their advertising supporters, doubt it though.

99% or something close to that is porn with little generic value, uniqueness or real pull. The people who go to a piracy site to DL a lot of CM and don't want anyone else will coe to you. both of them

The rest will go onto pornhub and download a free movie of any big titted milf.

As for new porn. I don't remember the exact year, let's say 2000, I last read AVN and the figures for new releases in the US. It was 15,000 titles. Assuming a man watches 90 minutes a day. that will take him 41 years to plow through the content of 2000. By the time he finishes the online stuff of 200 he will be in his box pushing up daisies.

Yes I know what you're going to say. Still every unseen scene is a "new" scene to that consumer. It could be my stuff from 200, but if he didn't see it, it's new to him. Don't come up with the HD argument, Tubes prove it invalid.

Newsgroups, then TGPs started us on this roller coaster and I think you were on the driving seat then. Now free will kill you and I hope Dating and Webcams. Then paysites might just come back.

Did you live over in SA

No dreaming involved. People want the newest updates and the newest porn. If they can't get if free...they will pay. Always have and always will.

How much content from your sites can I pirate and sell via out stores?

Or will you think my "freedom" is bullshit, if I pirate from you?

How much of yours can I steal before you call the police?

The problem is people saying one thing and doing the absolute opposite.

Don't flatter yourself or porn. This law is about big businesses protecting their property. Not this Ma & Pa industry. OK little extreme, still Microsoft and that level lose more in a day than the entire porn industry does in a month. And that's who it's going to get passed for.

Porn will have to suck it up and adapt to the new laws.

The piracy sites are largely supported by advertisers who want US traffic. It will hurt their advertising revenue. By a lot.

When the EU follows it will be goodbye piracy sites that live off advertising.

This law is going through, or one like it. It's to protect proper business like Microsoft and industries like software in the US and US tax revenues. So get used to it. All your crying and moaning counts for nothing. No one's listening to you. Or the mainstream piracy sites. do you think they listen to muggers and bank robbers when they pass a law for mugging and bank robbery? Get real people.

The effect on sites that advertise to get US surfers will be immense.

How will it change the way we live? Well if you don't use other peoples content to make money, or to get something for free that you shouldn't have. Not much. If you do and I suspect many of the anti bill people do. Then it will effect you.

I doubt it will turn the clock back, too much money has been spent to make porn free. Legal free Tube sites like pornhub, which will go legal, will make millions in advertising revenues. Less places to advertise = charge more money.

So maybe sites that advertise on piracy sites will have to spend more. Or will they spend the same in less places?

Manwin could be behind this bill.

Censorship is what makes us money. Banning or limiting porn in some countries actually opens the doors to serious webmasters and AVS sites who could make millions from legit porn buyers that way.

Forbidden fruits taste the best!

I am fully for stronger copyright protections, and I'm totally against piracy, but without reading a final draft of this bill (which doesn't exist yet) this thread is all about speculation and assumption.

These new proposed bills will effect porn, but that is not what I believe the underlying purpose is. I'm not optimistic about any of this at all. It smells a lot like censorship to me - artistic and more importantly, political.

I think that all creative people in all industries are already being censored by piracy.

How many great songwriters, musicians, film makers, artists, etc are lost to us because they can no longer make a living from their work?

That's not me just speculating either. In the porn biz I have a friend who is sitting on hundreds of hardcore scenes he has been shooting because he knows that the minute he releases any of it, it will be pirated and worthless.

A strong anti-piracy law and he could move forward with his work.

Pink Floyd sat in a studio for months, after rehearsing and trying out songs at home. It took time and the end result is a piece of musical history. Only a small part because this wasn't a one off. Bands and musicians had time to create great albums. Beatles, Who, Genesis, Zeppelin and many many more. Today they don't have the time or budget.

Sgt Pepper took over 12 months and Tommy took 8 months. They also had an advantage you could release only singles not attached to a full album. Pete Townsend threw together I can see for miles because they needed something to throw out there while creating Tommy.
Also record companies grew talent, it wasnt expected your first record to be a huge success.

I don't really understand these music industry/porn industry comparisons.

Porn is nowhere near as redeeming as music, and no one takes 8 months to film a porn video. Even if they did, what would be the point?

As far as piracy and revenue goes... a band can come together today, write some great tunes, GIVE THEM ALL AWAY FOR FREE, INTENTIONALLY, and still make bank performing live in venues around the world.

That's not how porn works, so the comparison is just not really valid.

Google Warns Lawmakers That Online Piracy Bill Could Depress Investment

Google Inc warned U.S. lawmakers on Wednesday that proposed legislation to crack down on foreign websites selling pirated U.S. movies, music or other counterfeit goods goes too far and could depress investment.

The legislation has pit Internet giants, consumer groups and first amendment advocates against the U.S. copyright industries, including Hollywood studios and record labels, who have long argued for tougher protection.

A U.S. House of Representatives bill would allow a private party to go straight to a website's advertising and payment providers and request they sever ties.

"A corporation, a copyright 'troll,' or anyone with an axe to grind could send a notice... without first involving law enforcement or triggering any judicial process," Google policy counsel Katherine Oyama told a House Judiciary Committee hearing.

She urged lawmakers to instead work on legislation that cuts off revenue to rogue sites via the courts and avoids the "collateral damage" built into the current form of the bill.

more here...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...ref=technology

What do you expect Google to say?

Copying and pasting something from a company that this bill could potentially hurt their income doesn't mean anything.

Meanwhile...thousands of businesses from various industries are having their livelihoods destroyed, laying off employees, and in some cases shutting down.

Some of that revenue is generated by google listing pirate sites high in the rankings.
I wish they would police that, but that is censorship right?

Do you think for a second these lawmakers are going to pass up an opportunity to slip in some collateral damage and overkill?

The ideal of the bill at heart might be a good one, but as said before.. the devil is in the details.. they will fuck us the first chance they get by slipping in some extra yardage.

Even if people agree with the general tone of it, surely they must know the overall affect will be a negative one?

I VOTE FUCK CENSORSHIP, we worked too hard to get our wee bit of freedoms.

Censorship is bad. Stopping pirates is not censorship, it is law enforcement. If you produce things that get taken from you and shared against your will, and you don't earn money on piracy, then you will appreciate anything the government can do in your favor.

I don't think anyone is arguing with you.

The concern is how the bills are ultimately written and implemented.

You know, don't throw the baby out with the bath water, etc.