DMCA law puts the burden on the content producer to protect copyrights? - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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SteveLightspeed

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#1

DMCA law puts the burden on the content producer to protect copyrights?

08-13-2007, 02:31 PM

This is the basic problem with DMCA: If I find my content being used illegally, I can file a DMCA complaint and have it removed.

BUT

The owners of the biggest pirate sites (who all know their sites are full of illegal content) claim their sites are "too large and complicated" to patrol themselves. If that is true, how the fuck are WE supposed to patrol ALL OF THEM combined?

There is a business model in there somewhere (if even only for a thug with a baseball bat) to fix this problem.

Suggestions?

Steve Lightspeed

Last edited by SteveLightspeed; 08-13-2007, 02:33 PM.

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#2

08-13-2007, 02:32 PM

yes.

there are bills in front of lawmakers now that could change that very rapidly.

until then i'm not wasting anytime.

enough is enough.
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#3

08-13-2007, 02:32 PM

edit: gfy fubared

Last edited by seeric; 08-13-2007, 02:34 PM.
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#4

08-13-2007, 02:33 PM

edit: misfire

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#5

08-13-2007, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by SteveLightspeed

This is the basic problem with DMCA: If I find my content being used illegally, I can file a DMCA complaint and have it removed.

BUT

The owners of the biggest pirate sites (who all know their sites are full of illegal content) claim their sites are "too large and complicated" to patrol themselves. If that is true, how the fuck are WE supposed to patrol ALL OF THEM combined?

There is a business model in there somewhere (if even only for a thug with a baseball bat) to fix this problem.

Suggestions?

Steve Lightspeed

They have search features - use those to search for your content, then send a dmca notice for every single infringing piece of content. If everyone did that, it would cost them tons of time to comply, and if they ever slipped up, you could simply sue them into oblivion.

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#6

08-13-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Libertine

They have search features - use those to search for your content, then send a dmca notice for every single infringing piece of content. If everyone did that, it would cost them tons of time to comply, and if they ever slipped up, you could simply sue them into oblivion.

easier said than done.

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#7

08-13-2007, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Libertine

They have search features - use those to search for your content, then send a dmca notice for every single infringing piece of content. If everyone did that, it would cost them tons of time to comply, and if they ever slipped up, you could simply sue them into oblivion.

Go right at the hosts. Let them know you did what you could and that is how they responded. If that doesn't work, let me know. I will DdOS them for $500US and continue to do so until your content is removed.

They will have no proof, because there is no link to you. Just IPs to boxes in teenagers cellars in China. They will figure it out that once they remove the content their webservers start moving again.

I am cheaper than a lawyer and can work across borders
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08-13-2007, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by A1R3K

edit: gfy fubared

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08-13-2007, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by JFK

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#10

08-13-2007, 03:35 PM

the file-sharing sites have removed our content quicker than several adult affiliate programs have and rarely have a repeat issue fyi.

secondly, if you just deal http://berra.org Paul Berra and work out a fee per dmca with him, he will assault these sites and handle it as quick and easy as you sending one link. no need to get upset- just exercise your rights.

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SteveLightspeed

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#11

08-13-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by XPays

the file-sharing sites have removed our content quicker than several adult affiliate programs have and rarely have a repeat issue fyi.

secondly, if you just deal http://berra.org Paul Berra and work out a fee per dmca with him, he will assault these sites and handle it as quick and easy as you sending one link. no need to get upset- just exercise your rights.

I'm sure he is capable of doing a good job. The question AGAIN is why is the burden on ME? "Work out a fee per dmca"... paying a lawyer to let thieves know they are thieves sounds kinda stupid, doesn't it?

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#12

08-13-2007, 03:53 PM

I say use a bat, fuck a notice.

Details forthcoming.

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#13

08-13-2007, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by SteveLightspeed

I'm sure he is capable of doing a good job. The question AGAIN is why is the burden on ME? "Work out a fee per dmca"... paying a lawyer to let thieves know they are thieves sounds kinda stupid, doesn't it?

there are plusses and minusses to the dmca but you can really sweep out google, yahoo, msn, youtube, megarotic, etc...

imo your first step is to get the word out that you proactively enforce. as long as the infringers know you do not enforce, they will keep exploiting your content. you could wipe out the unfair competition in 60 days or less i bet and then have a greatly reduced burdon thereafter.

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#14

08-13-2007, 04:02 PM

the punchline steve is that if you neglect enforcement long enough, your content will actually become public domain fyi.

if you want to protect your own way of life, then you ought to protect your content.

do not underestimate how much money you and your affiliates can lose or earn if you do not enforce or do enforce...

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#15

08-13-2007, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by XPays

the file-sharing sites have removed our content quicker than several adult affiliate programs have and rarely have a repeat issue fyi.

secondly, if you just deal http://berra.org Paul Berra and work out a fee per dmca with him, he will assault these sites and handle it as quick and easy as you sending one link. no need to get upset- just exercise your rights.

doesn't seem to be working..

http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca5...3117&print=yes

this was filed long ago against torrent spy/google , they are still top listed on google and still sharing your video

http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/18...ris_DvDrip_XXX

hatisblack at yahoo.com
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#16

08-13-2007, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear

doesn't seem to be working..

http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca5...3117&print=yes

this was filed long ago against torrent spy/google , they are still top listed on google and still sharing your video

http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/18...ris_DvDrip_XXX

thanks for the link- check it in 24hrs or less.

and yes- our enforcement is working and it is on the most popular piece of content in our industry ever.

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#17

08-13-2007, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by SteveLightspeed

I'm sure he is capable of doing a good job. The question AGAIN is why is the burden on ME? "Work out a fee per dmca"... paying a lawyer to let thieves know they are thieves sounds kinda stupid, doesn't it?

it certainly does.

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SteveLightspeed

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#18

08-13-2007, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by XPays

there are plusses and minusses to the dmca but you can really sweep out google, yahoo, msn, youtube, megarotic, etc...

imo your first step is to get the word out that you proactively enforce. as long as the infringers know you do not enforce, they will keep exploiting your content. you could wipe out the unfair competition in 60 days or less i bet and then have a greatly reduced burdon thereafter.

You are making the assumption that I don't protect my content. On the contrary, I keep my attorney pretty busy with it...

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#19

08-13-2007, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by SteveLightspeed

You are making the assumption that I don't protect my content. On the contrary, I keep my attorney pretty busy with it...

Good- i will send you any lightspeed content i see in my travels that appears suspicious. i am assuming you are not doing anything (incorrectly) because you are gvetching here and your content is widely infringed upon. Good Luck with the enforcements!

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#20

08-13-2007, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by SteveLightspeed

This is the basic problem with DMCA: If I find my content being used illegally, I can file a DMCA complaint and have it removed.

BUT

The owners of the biggest pirate sites (who all know their sites are full of illegal content) claim their sites are "too large and complicated" to patrol themselves. If that is true, how the fuck are WE supposed to patrol ALL OF THEM combined?

There is a business model in there somewhere (if even only for a thug with a baseball bat) to fix this problem.

Suggestions?

Steve Lightspeed

If you have the resources hire a few people to do nothing but look for your content and refer to your legal department from there.

Another option, perhaps open some sort of incentive program for people to report infringing material to you. This would require some thought. Of course you would not want people to upload stuff just so that they could collect the incentive. But the idea does have some potential I would think.

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#21

08-13-2007, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by signupdamnit

Another option, perhaps open some sort of incentive program for people to report infringing material to you. This would require some thought. Of course you would not want people to upload stuff just so that they could collect the incentive. But the idea does have some potential I would think.

I think I may have an idea for this. Start by offering your affiliates say $1 per reported violation. Or perhaps up payout percentages for that month for that webmaster by say 5% if they report at least 10 violations that month.

As affiliates we would have an incentive in helping you anyway but this would compensate us a little for our time.

?

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#22

08-13-2007, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by signupdamnit

I think I may have an idea for this. Start by offering your affiliates say $1 per reported violation. Or perhaps up payout percentages for that month for that webmaster by say 5% if they report at least 10 violations that month.

As affiliates we would have an incentive in helping you anyway but this would compensate us a little for our time.

?

That's actually a pretty good idea. A bit of "community policing" would be the best way to stop this.

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#23

08-13-2007, 04:26 PM

Yeah innocent until proven guilty.

However I think maybe a good compromise would be some sort of penalty for people who get over "X" number of DMCA notices per "x time period"
(They would have to be "legitimate" complaints of course)

The way the law is now if you have a designated dmca agent, and you remove the content after a complaint is filed, there are no penalties.
Perhaps there should be penalties for the most egregious offenders.

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#24

08-13-2007, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by signupdamnit

I think I may have an idea for this. Start by offering your affiliates say $1 per reported violation. Or perhaps up payout percentages for that month for that webmaster by say 5% if they report at least 10 violations that month.

As affiliates we would have an incentive in helping you anyway but this would compensate us a little for our time.

?

Cool, then I can start intentionally hijacking their content, report myself, and get $1 for each page.
I won't even need the checks from fleshlight and AFF now

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#25

08-13-2007, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Yeah innocent until proven guilty.

However I think maybe a good compromise would be some sort of penalty for people who get over "X" number of DMCA notices per "x time period"
(They would have to be "legitimate" complaints of course)

The way the law is now if you have a designated dmca agent, and you remove the content after a complaint is filed, there are no penalties.
Perhaps there should be penalties for the most egregious offenders.

"Innocent until proven guilty" ONLY applies to individuals. Not companies. It's actually the reverse for business law. "Guilty until proven innocent".

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signupdamnit

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#26

08-13-2007, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Cool, then I can start intentionally hijacking their content, report myself, and get $1 for each page.
I won't even need the checks from fleshlight and AFF now

That would be a potential problem which is why a payout increase would probably be preferable. Presumably people who actively sell the sites would have an interest in keeping the full content off the torrent sites and rapidshare type sites. If they do not make sales 5% of zero is zero. Any fraud would put the affiliates account in jeopardy which would be stupid.

Another idea:

Start an organization which collects minimal dues from sponsors. That organization then hires people to find such violations and report them to the sponsors legal department. It is probably no more than a $25k - $20k job which is nothing. Get two people full time. It would probably take a huge dent out of it. They would have a list of forum and torrent sites to patrol each day looking for any content from member programs.

Heck if nothing else outsource it. $50k a year is nothing compared to the benefits of keeping all your full content off the torrents. Especially if you are a huge program. I would assume it makes sense.

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#27

08-13-2007, 04:36 PM

you can just sue right out of the gates fyi- a history of dmca's is good evidence though that you tried to resolve things prior to filing a suit.

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#28

08-13-2007, 04:37 PM

currently there are multiple companies who will monitor torrent sites for your content and send out the DMCA complient removal requests.

it a form letter and cost of getting a bunch of grunts to review the daily additions of each site

when you combine the efforts of 100s of companies together it really becomes pretty easy.

hell i am a part owner in a company that does that for software right now.

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#29

08-13-2007, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Cool, then I can start intentionally hijacking their content, report myself, and get $1 for each page.
I won't even need the checks from fleshlight and AFF now

Oooh, chinks in the armor. So much for that idea.

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#30

08-13-2007, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by SteveLightspeed

There is a business model in there somewhere (if even only for a thug with a baseball bat) to fix this problem.

Suggestions?

Steve Lightspeed

I hear this guy is lookn' for work

.
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#31

08-13-2007, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Yeah innocent until proven guilty.

However I think maybe a good compromise would be some sort of penalty for people who get over "X" number of DMCA notices per "x time period"
(They would have to be "legitimate" complaints of course)

The way the law is now if you have a designated dmca agent, and you remove the content after a complaint is filed, there are no penalties.
Perhaps there should be penalties for the most egregious offenders.

I think that makes good sense. An innocent infringement can take place from time to time, but sites which regularly snarf large quantities of material are something else.

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#32

08-13-2007, 05:06 PM

DMCA has a couple of weaknesses - the most important being the the people using content isn't obliged to prove their rights, it is up to the content / material owner to prove that the rights have not been given.

The second weakness is that DMCA is very narrow in scope. You complain about this video at this URL, and they remove it. Tomorrow it gets put back up on another URL, and that requires another DMCA, and so on. There is seemingly no penalty for repeated abuse, especially when it comes to "user generated content".

The third weakness is that DMCA does have a ramp up effect: The penalties and liabilities for violating someones copyright twice is two times once. It doesn't get any more severe, over time.

The final weakness is that each DMCA is treated in a vacuum. There is no provision to handle sites that are are made entirely out of stolen content, each copyright holder has to complain about each piece of content individually. In the case of a torrent style site, that could involve thousands of different copyright holders all over the world. There is no simple way to say "well, we have had 5 valid complaints about the content on your site, so please show that you have the rights to the rest". There is no way to force a content related showdown under DMCA.

The intent of the law was big. The reality is that there are holes big enough to drive a torrent site through.
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#33

08-13-2007, 06:04 PM

DMCA is a failed piece of legislation - no surprise there - i have faith it will be re-written with the pressure of the Hollywood lobby in Washington but until then this is the answer --->

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=758042

fight back, sooner or later somebody is going to realize that all these people are common thieves and that includes Google and YouTube.

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#34

08-13-2007, 06:48 PM

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#35

08-13-2007, 07:13 PM

DMCA sucks because it essentially enables pirates to use for content until they get caught, and then all they have to do is take it down quickly.

The hosts seem to be immune from action if they comply with your takedown request in a prompt manner.

This does not address the lost revenues, lost opportunities, tainted branding or other damages incurred through unauthorized use of copyrighted content.

DMCA ia wired up to support large companies which often rely on the fresh content the pirates they provide shelter for bring up (and down).

A standard minimum fine (per day per content type) is a necessary addition to DMCA. Then the prospect of retroactive damages would be an actual deterrant.
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#36

08-13-2007, 07:40 PM

I think the biggest blame of these boards posting pirated content is because of google.

Before google was paying everyone with these adwords things, there was not nearly as many places to worry about, but if you notice, pretty much all of these pirate places are trying to make money off adwords stuff or what ever its called by putting the google links on your site.

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#37

08-13-2007, 07:43 PM

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#38

08-13-2007, 07:54 PM

What can be done about fuckers like this?

http://thepiratebay.org/legal

They openly brag about not complying. Apple, Micrsoft, Warner bros. you would think one of these companies could get their content removed.

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#39

08-13-2007, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by kenny

What can be done about fuckers like this?

http://thepiratebay.org/legal

They openly brag about not complying. Apple, Micrsoft, Warner bros. you would think one of these companies could get their content removed.

That should tell you how difficult it is to get it removed from torrent sites hosted out of the USA.

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#40

08-13-2007, 10:12 PM

The DMCA law has always relied on the victim to police the thieves. Maybe a better law would be one that said in effect "You publish it, it's your job to check that it's legal"

But as we were all hid behind the "2257 does not apply to me" clause I don't see many wanting that. Might mean they have to be responsible.

The only hope is the film and music industry putting pressure on the government or us coming together to sue Search Engines and advertisers on these sites.

But for porn and the present business model it will not solve the situation for many.

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#41

08-13-2007, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Paul Markham

The DMCA law has always relied on the victim to police the thieves. Maybe a better law would be one that said in effect "You publish it, it's your job to check that it's legal"

But as we were all hid behind the "2257 does not apply to me" clause I don't see many wanting that. Might mean they have to be responsible.

The only hope is the film and music industry putting pressure on the government or us coming together to sue Search Engines and advertisers on these sites.

But for porn and the present business model it will not solve the situation for many.

Suing the advertisers will be the key, one judgment against and they all will run for the hills and bunch before that.
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#42

08-13-2007, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by kenny

What can be done about fuckers like this?

http://thepiratebay.org/legal

They openly brag about not complying. Apple, Micrsoft, Warner bros. you would think one of these companies could get their content removed.

That is seriously fucked up.

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#43

08-14-2007, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by kenny

What can be done about fuckers like this?

http://thepiratebay.org/legal

They openly brag about not complying. Apple, Micrsoft, Warner bros. you would think one of these companies could get their content removed.

Doesn't Sweden have any copyright treaties with US or Canada?

DMCA notwithstanding, many countries have their own copyright laws and enter into treaties with others.

According to one of the responses the pirates sent, they claimed that Sweden was not subject to any international copyright agreements.

That does not seem correct.

??
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