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That's actually somewhat of a common misconception. He didn't believe in any God of any particular religion, and in fact no God that is in any way human like, like an actual being, who acts. He used the placeholder "God" to represent the grandness of the universe, and actually spent much of his later time reaffirming that he didn't believe in God in the way he's often quoted.
Really read the Breaking the Spell book, by Daniel Dennett, if you're at all curious about exploring religion and belief in God further. He doesn't trash religion, but isn't exactly a believer either.
simon -at- iacash dot com
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this right here is a perfect example of the failed US educational system
weather you believe in god or not you can't accept Evolution as a fact because it is NOT YET a fact, it is a theory.
Accepting Evolution as fact is as bad as talking the bible literally both are a close minded assumption that your theory is right.
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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Goddamnit it is a fact, as every other goddamn country in the world's population's agree. Evolution is a theory that has been proven, whereas intelligent design is not even a theory, nor is biblical literalism, since FOR ANYTHING TO BE A THEORY, IT HAS TO BE TESTABLE, TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE PROVEN FALSE.
simon -at- iacash dot com
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Gravity is a "theory," as well... but it still happens.
Evolution is both a fact and a theory... just like gravity.
You must realize how discerning science aspires to be... it rarely makes claims to a comprehensive all-serving truth.
We know it happens... "evolution." In examining single-cell organisms that reproduce several times a day (the best opportunity to witness long-term generational variations since our discovery of the genome) We've witnessed dozens of species mutate, bringing new genes into creation, and their populations be affected postitively or negatively by the newly introduced alleles in their gene-pool. Our own DNA has similar gene sequences to every animal (and some plants) on this planet....
That's part of the "Fact" of evolution... and when observed as a whole, one can realize a family tree that comes about throughout evolutionary time... with a myriad species breaking off from one another as the genetic deviation between populations differed enough to classify the population as a new species.
Did we transcend to "homo sapien" by the sum of natural selection, or did we have a helping hand somewhere along the way? That's an unknown... thus the 'Theory' of evolution. Again, science rarely makes claim to perpetual truth.
That's the job of religion and philosophy. And any of those that don't take into account these scientific truths - that evolution happens... are doing those that follow them a disservice, imho.-D.
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Who says science is right? I am an Atheist, however I want to know how anyone can say for fact 1 thing is wrong and the other isn't.
Since the beginning of time religion was FACT. Multi gods, single gods, female gods. Whatever kind of god or spirit, 99% of people believed in one.
Now science comes along and says "Nah, we're right. Don't believe those fruitcakes."
I agree 100% that religion is old, outdated and very close minded. However I want to know how science can be correct when there are thousands of theories on every single issue and idea, just like there are religions (Buddhism, Christianity, Muslims).
I just can't take ANY humans word for shit considering NO ONE on the planet knows the single truth about any one issue.Comment
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omg this is so sad
gravity as a constant is not a theory it is a law (see law of gravity)
It was a theory when Aristotle postulated that heavier objects accelerate faster
This theory was proven wrong by Galileo Galilei in the 16th century in the famous tower of pisa experiment.
The new theory of gravity postulated that gravity was a constant and it was air resistance that cause a feather to drop slower than heavier .
it wasn't until someone figuired out how to pump all the air out of tube containing both objects that this theory could be tested. Once it was tested and the hypothesis was proven to be true, creating a situation in which the theory could be proven true for all conditions then and only then did it become the LAW of GRAVITY.
It so sad that the US educational system has failed to teach people the difference between a scientific theory and a Scientific fact.
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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You keep on going off on the US educational system.
I'm curious where you were educated... it seems your education is far from complete, because I don't think you really know what you're talking about.
Gravity is certainly a theory. Any freshman year physics major - in any college in the world - could tell you that one. Go ask one.
It's a subset of general relativity.
Many of the aspects of "gravity" don't fit into quantum mechanics... another theoretical area of study.
They're all theories. We're trying to figure it all out. No one is _sure_ what universal forces exist - for one reason, because our scope is limited to the Earth's paradigm.
Sure there are laws that accompany the theory... there are laws and constants and theorems and postulates and corollaries that are a part of any good theory.
But it's still a "theory."
With all due respect, let's try to keep this discussion somewhere near the academic level, eh?Last edited by D; 08-06-2007, 07:32 PM.-D.
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I think everybody including the religious nuts understand that micro evolution exists and is well established as fact. They take issue with the idea of macro evolution and the various theories about the origin of life, which has not been and may never be conclusively known (I can't see anybody accepting as fact that life began one way or another until we're able to produce life out of objects and chemicals in a lab).
I see many potential benefits to evolutionary theory insofar as it may allow us to make predictions about diseases, help us produce treatments, and may widen our understanding about ourselves by giving us a possible historical road map about where and how we originated. Beyond that, who really cares. Religion will never go away. It may shift from cults like the church to all kinds of individual beliefs in higher powers, but it's never going away.
I also don't see how ID can be taught. What else can be said about it other than: "Every complex organism on earth functions so well that we believe something designed it". How can you have a course on that? When studying the cell in biology, the ID proponent would say what? "Cells are so complex, so it was designed". Without getting into religion, I don't see a whole lot that ID offers, and ID does not have to have a religious basis.Last edited by Drake; 08-06-2007, 07:48 PM.Comment
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I think evolution makes a decent case explaining some of the observable adaptations we see among organisms. I accept the theory's explanations of anything beyond that with reservation.Comment
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you're fucking kidding right? man there are some geniuses in this thread...
Religion was never fact. It was and is a belief system. When God comes down in the middle of Times Square and smites the sinners, it will be a FACT.
Science does not claim to be 'correct'. It claims to be the best theory going until a better one comes along. Some theories, like gravity and evolution, have been corrororated in so many different ways so many times that functionally, they can be considered fact. Claiming you are an athiest is you claiming that you know something for a FACT, that there is no god. At best you are agnostic.
If you (and gideongallery) don't know (and you don't), now you know.
btw luv the yummy irony of gideongallery saying this thread proves the deficiencies of the public school system and then immediately following his despair over our stupidity with an absolutely rock stupid moronic post. Classic.Comment
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Damn - you are a tease JF - you got a sure fire winner with this thread
Somehow I just can't see groups of people in eg. Germany, Ozzieland, Iceland, Russia, UK, Italy ad nausea, actually wasting their time with utter crap. Some cultures just have a great whatever - could be insecurity or lack of anything meaningful in their lives that they resort to having so many "issues" - can be religous cults, abortion, divisory hatred in political affairs, the need to have "enemies", issues over stem cell research or the new invention - "intelligent design". Does it matter or does the world really care? Nope.
The only outcome is a downwards spiral into oblivion, during which there will still be discussions over "issues" while they hate each other, fear percieved "enemies", debate about "pro life" ad nausea while appealing to God to resolve an economic and cultural demise. Something is seriously lacking...
Leave me out - I'm off the do some intelligent design on web templates
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You keep on going off on the US educational system.
I'm curious where you were educated... it seems your education is far from complete, because I don't think you really know what you're talking about.
Gravity is certainly a theory. Any freshman year physics major - in any college in the world - could tell you that one. Go ask one.
It's a subset of general relativity.
Many of the aspects of "gravity" don't fit into quantum mechanics... another theoretical area of study.
They're all theories. We're trying to figure it all out. No one is _sure_ what universal forces exist - for one reason, because our scope is limited to the Earth's paradigm.
Sure there are laws that accompany the theory... there are laws and constants and theorems and postulates and corollaries that are a part of any good theory.
But it's still a "theory."
With all due respect, let's try to keep this discussion somewhere near the academic level, eh?
just because a theory is based on a law does not or make that law a theory
you can have a known fact and then expand a theory upon that fact, that theory does not change the truth that the fact is a fact.
If you ask any properly educated physics major he wll tell you that Quantam Mechanics Theory (the other part of the general relativity theory) assumes that gravity is still a constant but that electromatic forces (polarity between particles ) as well as the weak and the strong forces (see light particles, quarks etc) create counter/supplemental forces to gravity, resulting in slower/faster movements.
For this theory to be proven to be true, we must come up with a techology that cancels these counter forces. I for one can't wait to see that day since the vaccum created in the 1870 to prove gravity became the vaccum tube of the 1904 and with it all the technological advancements that came.
Artifically promote theories to fact without the necessary proof, and you stiffle the need for advancement for advancement sake.
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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Man, stop while you're ahead.
1) we're going off topic here.
2) it's becoming more apparent that you don't know what you're talking about.
Quantum mechanics is NOT a part of general relativity. They're different theories - and both have compatibility issues between the two. The differences has been debated for generations of physicists and mathematicians.
Hell, 99% of advances mathematics is a THEORY.
Theories are what math and science are based on as it does not assume universal truth.
Again - where were you educated?
Gravity can be expressed as a constant... I agree with that... but that doesn't qualify it as a "fact." And since we're on the topic of facts, more than likely, there was no "Pisa" experiment by Galileo that you mentioned in your last post - it's a page from scientific legend/fiction, not reality... like most of the points you're now making.-D.
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the bible contradicts itself with things that are physically impossible
where as the quran can not be proved wrong, all it's claims can be backed up by science, yes, including the making of the universe
this is why islam is growing and will soon become bigger than christianity.
im no muslim myself but just lletting u knowLast edited by buzzy; 08-07-2007, 07:38 AM.Comment
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Gravity wasn't explained to any degree by Galileo. He just did some experiments to show its effects. Gravity for a ball falling is the same as the force that keeps us in orbit around the sun, rooted in the fact that mass attracts other mass, noticeable with very massive things.
Man I can't read this thread anymore, too fucking depressing. I give up. Evolution's as much of a fucking fact as anything else in science, and if you wanna say "OMG IT'S NOT 100% PROVEN" then go fucking discard all other science. My god.
simon -at- iacash dot com
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