Just a lesson learned that some of you really need to pick up on...

No way? Reeeeaaally?

no one gives a fuck.

True but since the very names of many of those forums are censored by GFY to read as "hahahahahaha" thus not allowing those of us veteran enough to talk about them I'd have to say GFY says that when you're here GFY IS the end all be all.

Besides, most here have no clue the history of the pond, or porn city, or the Bikini Board for that matter. Not really much point in rehashing stuff with people who were still in jr high at the time.

I know bro... But I am sure it bothers you as much as it does me too see some of this shit. It really is something one needs to learn. Its a shame.

It is sad though all that history gone. I remember lurking on the condom project forums and studying every word... lol I remember when I got access to the thumblords member area... hahaha...

Times have changed... It just sucks how this forum censors it's own industry's history and makes it own version of it.

Dude...


Sweet....

Dude....

LOL Ever see dude wheres my car? LOL for some reason your post reminded me of it..

you must be kidding

Another thing that really is bothersome... How negative some people are here... You could make one non negative post and BAMMM!! Ton's of hate follows... I know its gfy, but not everything deserves to be shit on.

It's not gone. It lives on in all us oldies.


Actually there's nothing wrong with talking about industry history here. There was just a porn city thread not too long ago (because that board finally went offline for good) and a lot of alumni from there posted their memories, hello's, etc.

What I do find odd is the fact that not many newer (younger) people to the board express an interest or any respect at all for the people and all the stuff that came before them. No interest in the history of the game at all, just attitude. Me, when I started my first sites back in the 90's the FIRST thing I did was go looking for what the vets were doing and how they were doing it, and where they hung out etc. But that's just me, when I'm new to something I don't think I'm "the end all be all" of it, I tend to park my ego and learn from those who came before.

I heard rumors or this once but attributed it to heavy narcotic use by the source.

Seriously though. I think the history of the internet in general and the history of adult on the net is very interesting. Not sure if they are teaching it in schools yet but they will be soon if not.

I registered my first domain in late 1995, it was a .com.au for our magazine. Mosaic was the browser I used to first view a really rudimentary website. By Christmas 1996 it was pulling a grand a day. Everything had to be learned, because everything was so new you were eager to seek out forums or irc channels where people discussed what they were doing so you could improve upon what you were doing.

These days it's different, there is more information out there about how to set up sites, there are premade scripts that will get you up and running in less than a day. There appears no need for the newer webmasters to appreciate innovation.

That goes both ways - quite a few veterans with an attitude who seem to have no respect for anyone and as with anything negative its always the rudest ones that are the most vocal.

Also, its a business. Business is about now not how well someone once did so the people anybody new is more likely to respect are the ones who are currently successful.

GFY is definitely not the whole adult industry.

It goes both ways.

Before I started last summer, I read the past 8 or so PRVT annual reports.Here are the PDFs

In terms of publicly available hard data, which is very limited in the industry, I think those reports are the best way to retroactively map out the past decade. I know they only represent the results of one company, but the reports do contain a lot of industry-wide market insight from the perspective of a 45 year old publicly traded company.

Here are a couple of other interesting articles that some of you may remember.

Naked Capitalists by Frank Rich - NYT Magazine 2001
Here's A Follow Up Article by Forbes

The Forbes article basically refutes the NYT Magazine article. I personally feel the Forbes article was probably a bit more accurate. I mean, this excerpt from the Forbes article, in reference to the reportedly $4 Billion industry, is comedy gold.

How Adult Video News gets this number is not clear. We asked Adult Video News' managing editor, Mike Ramone.

"I don't know the exact methodology," he said, "It's a pie chart."

It's a pie chart! Hilarious.

That guy was obviously a real piece of work from what I've read, but he also managed to become editor-in-chief for the #1 trade pub in what was an allegedly $4B industry.

Are new people supposed to blindly respect people like Mike Ramone?

Inflating numbers back then did serve as an industry wide marketing plan. It basically told people that it was OK for them to buy porn because everyone else was buying porn. But doing so also caused a large number of idiots to enter the industry because, after reading these obviously bullshit numbers, they thought, "Hey, why not me?. They happened to be in the right place at the right time and have somehow deluded themselves into thinking that their success is the result of intelligence, not timing, I'd like to see a little more humility from those people.

To put things into perspective, even Mark Cuban has acknowledged how lucky he was to sell Broadcast.com to Yahoo before the dotcom bust and he's worth billions. Real, actual billions.

Yet somehow that same type of humility is lost upon people who lucked out in buying a keyword rich domain 8 years ago and are now sitting on so much indexed content that it's nearly impossible for them to fuck up the SEO no matter how hard they try! It seems to me like many of the original innovators retired or left for greener pastures before the inmates took over the asylum and left a giant mess for others to clean up.

Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of highly intelligent, very successful people in the industry who deserve the respect of people just starting out and deserve the respect of people who have been around since the 90s.

What people need to realize is that , while some of them did indeed start 10-15 or more years ago, some of them have just started in the past year or two.

Creativity + Intelligence + 1-2 Years of Experience > 12 Years of Mediocrity

It does go both ways. But to your second point, newbs who are smart will also throw some of that "respect" and a good part of their learning curve to those who aren't only successful currently but those who have been successful for a long time, like 5-10+ years. Some here have been at this (whatever they do in this industry) for nearly 15 years. Trust me, if you've made a living in online adult for that long and you're still around you are doing something right. (those who retired rich not withstanding)

Yes, as I said, it does. Still doesn't change the fact that a part of the reason why some newer members AREN'T as successful as they'd like to be is due to thier lack of interest in understanding the history of the business and who and what came before them.


That is so not even close to what I mean by "understanding the history of our business". You're way way off.


Can't argue with any of that really. It does apply to some, not all, however, but it's largely true.


Yes, the respect can definitely run both ways, but I've seen many posts in recent years of people who a year ago, 2-5 years ago even, didn't exist on the boards or on the web with whatever websites they now run, who have made some pretty idiotic comments to long-timers. Tells me they simply have zero clue as to what brought us all to where we are with online Adult. A few express an interest in learning about it, but most don't.

That's my point, and argue if you must but the fact is I'm right. If I were coming to the wm boards as a complete newb today I would do the same thing I did 12+ years ago, I would seek out those who came before, learn a little history and who did what, take a look at what they did, learn from it, and set my course based on success rather than pretend I know it all and have the game figured out.

It's different if you're coming in with a new idea and without any advice or help you pull it off and make it fly, and profit from it. Most don't though. Most come in thinking they might start a TGP or get into the content game or maybe build a tube site, some are even still into gallery building/submitting. It's those people who come in without a solid business plan that my comments are most directed at, and there are a lot of them here.

Seriously, there are people here who don't know who PK is. There are plenty who run their keyboards at 12clicks yet obviously by their comments know ziltch about what the guy has actually done in this business. If you're asking who the hell is Marc D then I'm shaking my head at you. To me it means that person is a know-nothing NEWB who should yap less and learn more.

Cheers.

This reminds me of the football players at the high school reunion talking about the glory days.

How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains? Yeah. Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.





.

God damned whippersnappers!

I agree. Within a couple months or so after starting, I sought out advice from a few handpicked people, each of whom had 10-15 years of experience. I pretty much just kept emailing until they either began to respond or told me told me to stop bugging them. lol. In one particular email, after 3 or 4 previous ones had been ignored, I literally opened with the following paragraph before asking a bunch of questions.

"Sorry to bother you again, but I'd honestly rather ask advice from and be ignored by someone who definitely knows what they're talking about rather than posting on a board and receiving a bunch of feedback from people who quite possibly don't know what they're talking about! I know I can be a handful, so I totally understand if you don't respond."

There is certainly something to be said for consistency and longevity, but it doesn't necessarily equate to greatness.

What's funny is that I intentionally added the "I know they only represent the results of one company, but..." caveat because I knew that if I didn't, somebody would respond in such a way. I find it annoying that I have to clarify my reasoning for taking the time to do such research when most people have not done the same and therefore cannot tell me definitively what is and what isn't in the reports. They don't detail what went on in the 'trenches', but reading them in sequence can definitely help someone gain a better understanding of the past decade from a macro standpoint and to say otherwise is recklessly ignorant.

Not all long-timers are cut from the same cloth and it's a mistake to use join dates and post counts to assess knowledge and/or intelligence. ESPECIALLY post count. Case in point.

Person A - May 2001 - 7,149
Person B - June 2001 - 28,048
Person C - July 2003 - 2,420

I pretty much agree with all of that. I had a rock solid plan when I started but did not have the funds to outsource anything and I ended up having to spend a ridiculous amount of time on some of the most trivial of tasks. I'm glad I was able to learn much of what I learned, and am still learning, but having to do so much was a bit overwhelming, I lost site of my original plan, jumbled the message, ultimately had to scrap it, and am still in the midst of the time consuming process of switching to Plan B. I've probably made 100s of mistakes. Seriously. It's ridiculous. But,even though I can't help myself sometimes, I try to not ever make the same ones twice.

I'm sure that these are great people. You seem to be not too shabby yourself, which is why I'm taking the time to respond, but isn't it more important to be familiar with whatever concepts they helped advance ? Throughout history, whenever industries have successfully emerged from recessions and/or periods of upheaval, it's usually been because of their willingness to embrace new, fresh ideas. Ideas which usually don't come from glorifying the past.