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Well you know they don't plan on leaving anytime soon. I am sure you have heard them say they want to stay there until it is more stable. That may be never. They probably will over throw the new government. There is nothing we can do to change how long they stay there. Like the government has been listening to us.Comment
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I understand the moral side of things. I understand some people will never believe that it was ok to do. But there is no denying that MORE people would have died had we not dropped it. Hundreds of thousands of people were dying each month from the war. If we didn't drop the bomb, and millions more civilians died, would you feel better?Comment
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Embarrassing is the only word to describe that video...Comment
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It is hard to tell who will get in office in 2008. There are some good candidates on both sides that have a strong chance at winning. For Rebublicans I do not like John McCain. He is a flip flopper. I live in AZ and he is always flip flopping on things. Fred Thompson seems to be a good choice. He seems like he would be a good leader and actually listen to the people.
I guess we can only vote and see what happens.Comment
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The level of any balance and sense here is lower than anything human - and a total waste of time even attempting to discuss in any sensible way.
The fetish and preoccupation will hit back to pathetic US domestic politics and a load of crap about Republicans and Democrats - as tho any of them have a clue about anything other than their own selfish asses.
Never have I seen a nation totally incapable of any intelligent discussion and a lack of ability to accept criticism of history. It's not only disgusting but totally offensive considering the 1000's of people who suffered.
PS - BTW - not referring to pocketkangaroo :-)Comment
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So who do you think I am going to believe - you or General Dwight D. Eisenhower?
"In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."Last edited by Porn Farmer; 06-24-2007, 12:00 AM.Comment
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You lump them all into a group because they're Iraqi? I've certainly seen some US citizens do some pretty stupid things, yet I don't celebrate when shit happens to the population itself. Pretty shallow thinking there.
Their government was called out for having weapons of mass destruction (which they didn't have), this war is not justified. If some foreign power invaded my country, told me our government was wrong, and completely obliterated our form of society, we'd be stealing wood and burning flags too.
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Please do list what WHINSEC's known speciality training is - and not the version which WHINSEC now claims it to be
A brief summary of it's activities prior to being renamed from SOA to WHINSEC would also be useful as an education on GFY.
PS And I know you had to look up the dates on Pinnochet :-)Comment
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ya, that was a pretty funny give away...Please do list what WHINSEC's known speciality training is - and not the version which WHINSEC now claims it to be
A brief summary of it's activities prior to being renamed from SOA to WHINSEC would also be useful as an education on GFY.
PS And I know you had to look up the dates on Pinnochet :-)Comment
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I am not the one that stated that it wouldn't have ended the war. Truman, his cabinet, and the military determined that. There is a lot of debate on both sides, and there probably never will be a good answer. But the facts were that hundreds of thousands of civilians were dying each month, and those bombs helped put an end to that.
It is one of the darkest days in human civilization. But there is strong contention by historians that it ultimately saved many lives.Comment
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Please do list what WHINSEC's known speciality training is - and not the version which WHINSEC now claims it to be
A brief summary of it's activities prior to being renamed from SOA to WHINSEC would also be useful as an education on GFY.
PS And I know you had to look up the dates on Pinnochet :-)
Ok. It trains mostly Latin American military personal, but does allow civilians and other people outside of Latin American to train there.
When it was SOA their speciality in training was techniques of torture from what I can tell. That is why they changed the name and what they do there now.
Yes I did have to look up the dates on Pinnochet. I did know that he was a dictator and president but I did not know the exact length of his leadership.
I think if people read about WHINSEC they would find it very interesting. I do not think a lot of people even know what it is.Comment
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There's a large percentage of the world's population which are nothing more than followers. It is all they are capable of. All you need to do is put an idea out there, and someone will cling to it...
I'm sure there's still people who think Stalin had it altogether too...Comment
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Even worse was Thatcher actually sat and dined with the trash and even visited her friend Augusto while in custody in the UK.
What's is name... the asshole who was Sec of State (or something like that) in the US at the time still has an arrest warrant out for his involvement in the Chilean episode - and is careful what countries he visits. Talk about harboring terrorists and thugs. *lol*
PS Remember the name - Kissinger.Comment
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Nope that is not what I gave you. You should have given me more credit then that. I don't do the cut and paste fluff stuff. I also would not say they did not murder or torture people. I am sure that they did.Comment
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So governments - like Dubyas - always make the correct decision?
"The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.Many, including General MacArthur, have contended that Japan would have surrendered before the bombings if the U.S. had notified Japan that it would accept a surrender that allowed Emperor Hirohito to keep his position as titular leader of Japan, a condition the U.S. did in fact allow after Japan surrendered. U.S. leadership knew this, through intercepts of encoded Japanese messages, but refused to clarify Washington's willingness to accept this condition.
"The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman
The United States Strategic Bombing Survey, after interviewing hundreds of Japanese civilian and military leaders after Japan surrendered, reported:
"Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."
There is no consesus on this issue like your statement implies.Comment
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OK.. very good
I'll elaborate further - it specializes in training not only military officers, but leaders and potential leaders (who the US which to be in power in certain countries) - and this training encompasses "population management" and of course, oppression.
The US has never admitted this is the case and there is no evidence available to support it - but it is thought that Saddam Hussein was one of the individuals who had training by SOA/WHINSEC.
SOA/WHINSEC were directly responsible, along with CIA involvement in the killings and torture of at least 30,000 people while Pinnochet was in power. It would be correct to say that Pinnochet would not have been in power without the help of the US.
It is ironic that Pinnochet awarded WHINSEC a ceremonial sword for their assistance in training his officers in torture, murder techniques and "population control". I'm sure WHINSEC will display this kind gift for all to see.
Unfortunately, many of the thugs trained by WHINSEC are still alive and continuing their reigns of terror in numerous countries. There are still ongoing killings along the WHINSEC trained lines - ie women found dead with plastic bags over there heads etc.
WHINSEC/SOA sure is an interesting organization....Comment
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You need to vote. The reason we have a lot of fools in office is low voter turnout. If people would get off their asses and actually vote it would make a difference. Damn they even will mail you a ballot to vote. There is no reason for people not to vote, they make it so easy to do.Comment
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Honestly my husband is really into reading stuff about things like WHINSEC. He will even read the whole rulings of the Supreme Court even if it is 120 pages or so. So I end up having to read it all too even if I do not want to. He actually would be great to join this conversation. I will have to mention it to him. He is always up for discussions like these.Last edited by Guest; 06-24-2007, 12:36 AM.Comment
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No.. our votes don't count.. if no one voted, theres still going to be those select few people from your state that vote matters. Our vote is just the popular vote, it does not matter. If everyone voted for Kerry in 04', Bush still could of still won. The reason we have a lot of fools in office is because money pays. If every citizen vote, it still would not matter. If I voted for Gore in '00, then my vote didn't matter did it? It never will. The only voting I like is the kind on GFY.
Anyway, I'm off to bed. Night all.Comment
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I've read books on both sides of the fence. There was no definitive answer to whether Japan would surrender. They had assasinated higher-ups who wanted surrender. They also needed a unanimous vote to surrender and begin peace talks. The military was vehemently opposed to any form of surrender.
No one knows for sure if they would have surrendered earlier, and the fact that hundreds of thousands of lives were being lost every month put a necessity to end the war quickly. As some of the quotes above state, a surrender may not have happened till November or December, at which time a million civilians would have been killed.
I'm not sure what you're trying to insinuate. That the US just dropped the bombs for fun? If the goal was to kill a lot of people, they would have dropped it on Tokyo. They chose two of the most important military cities around. Like I said, if you believe the dropping of the atomic bombs was not worth saving a million civilians (and countless military), so be it.Comment
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The atomic Bomb killed several birds with one (well TWO) massively destructive stones.
It prompted the Japanese who weren't aware that things were over to COMPLETELY close up shop. And it showed the rest of the world what we had. Who was going to pass up that double-barrel opportunity?Comment
We are now due for a cut and paste taken from a WHINSEC PR policy document which will disclaim all murder and torture related incidents.
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