Paypal Moves To Luxembourg

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  • Rumbo
    So Fucking Banned
    • Jan 2007
    • 206
    #1

    Paypal Moves To Luxembourg

    http://www.platinax.co.uk/news/15-05...to-luxembourg/

    why did paypal europe move to luxembourg and turn into a bank??

    curious move for paypal europe, no?
    Tags: None
    • BigPinPin
      Confirmed User
      • May 2003
      • 894
      #2
      I don´t care where they move because their support and their whole company politics will always suck. Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.

        Comment

        • demon100
          Confirmed User
          • Oct 2003
          • 1203
          #3
          i live in belgium and alot of people have bank accounts in luxemburg cause its a sort of tax paradise in some ways ... it whould have to do something with that .
          Silvia Saint
          Full movies
          Sex movies

            Comment

            • Fap
              Just Du It
              • Feb 2004
              • 12094
              #4
              Originally posted by BigPinPin
              I don´t care where they move because their support and their whole company politics will always suck. Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.

              www.PayPalSucks.com

                Comment

                • KILL_FRENZY
                  Confirmed User
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 6184
                  #5
                  Originally posted by BigPinPin
                  I don´t care where they move because their support and their whole company politics will always suck. Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.
                  that's true

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                    Comment

                    • fallenmuffin
                      Confirmed User
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 8170
                      #6
                      Taking over the world.. didn't the Nazi's make the same move?

                        Comment

                        • bizarredollars
                          Confirmed User
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 1582
                          #7
                          Yep... Old news, and I don't really understand why they chose luxomburg... I would have thought BVI would have been a good choice for them... Certainly from a banking standpoint.

                          [email protected]
                          icq: 205-252-550

                            Comment

                            • Pornwolf
                              Drunk and Unruly
                              • Jan 2002
                              • 22712
                              #8
                              Who gives a shit?
                              I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

                              Webair, bitches.

                                Comment

                                • DamageX
                                  Marketing & Strategy
                                  • Jun 2001
                                  • 14293
                                  #9
                                  I believe in Luxembourg its unconstitutional to divulge info about bank account holders. At least it was until a few years ago, not sure how much pressure the EU has been able to put on them recently and if it has suffered any changes due to that.
                                  Whitehat is for chumps

                                  If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                    Comment

                                    • bizarredollars
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Mar 2006
                                      • 1582
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by DamageX
                                      I believe in Luxembourg its unconstitutional to divulge info about bank account holders. At least it was until a few years ago, not sure how much pressure the EU has been able to put on them recently and if it has suffered any changes due to that.
                                      Hmm... I never considered that.. Good info, thanks!

                                      [email protected]
                                      icq: 205-252-550

                                        Comment

                                        • bizarredollars
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Mar 2006
                                          • 1582
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                          Who gives a shit?
                                          I give a shit... One of my mainstream businesses does half of it's turn over through PayPal... For mainstream, it's a very useful service.

                                          [email protected]
                                          icq: 205-252-550

                                            Comment

                                            • Pornwolf
                                              Drunk and Unruly
                                              • Jan 2002
                                              • 22712
                                              #12
                                              Hello, so do I. But, at the end of the day if the gov wants your info there's nowhere they can hide as long as they are a subsidiary of E-Bay.

                                              So, it doesn't matter. Pure and simple.
                                              I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

                                              Webair, bitches.

                                                Comment

                                                • DamageX
                                                  Marketing & Strategy
                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                  • 14293
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                  Hello, so do I. But, at the end of the day if the gov wants your info there's nowhere they can hide as long as they are a subsidiary of E-Bay.

                                                  So, it doesn't matter. Pure and simple.
                                                  Actually, it does, provided that Luxembourg's constitution still bans disclosing account info. If the newly created bank is registered there then the US government can't do jack to obtain information, legally anyway.
                                                  Whitehat is for chumps

                                                  If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                    Comment

                                                    • CWeb
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • May 2007
                                                      • 245
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by DamageX
                                                      I believe in Luxembourg its unconstitutional to divulge info about bank account holders. At least it was until a few years ago, not sure how much pressure the EU has been able to put on them recently and if it has suffered any changes due to that.
                                                      Correct man - it's the same in almost all offshore or private banking areas and usually a criminal offense to disclose corp data or banking info - and this still applies in Luxembourg.

                                                      The directors of PayPal Europe Sàrl & Cie blah are prob doing whatever they think is prudent and may need banking status in the EU and perhaps more privacy. It may also be to the benefit of Paypal clients where there may be an option to limit disclosure.

                                                      A couple of ebay interests already have legal entities in Luxembourg, including Skype - the reasons for that may be fairly obvious :-)

                                                        Comment

                                                        • DaddyHalbucks
                                                          A freakin' legend!
                                                          • Feb 2004
                                                          • 18975
                                                          #15
                                                          Interesting, would love to know more about this.
                                                          Boner Money

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Pornwolf
                                                              Drunk and Unruly
                                                              • Jan 2002
                                                              • 22712
                                                              #16
                                                              You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

                                                              There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.
                                                              Last edited by Pornwolf; 05-26-2007, 12:14 PM.
                                                              I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

                                                              Webair, bitches.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Barefootsies
                                                                  Choice is an Illusion
                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                  • 42635
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                  You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

                                                                  There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.
                                                                  Should You Email Your Members?

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                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • DamageX
                                                                      Marketing & Strategy
                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                      • 14293
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                      You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.
                                                                      PayPal Europe is NOT a US company. Its owners may be US-based, but the company abides by laws in other countries. Depending on those laws, disclosing financial info to the US government about any of their non-US companies may be a crime.
                                                                      Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                      If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • bizarredollars
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Mar 2006
                                                                          • 1582
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                          You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

                                                                          There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.
                                                                          Hmmm... Did you ever visit paypal in dublin... Their offices are huge.. I would call that an Irish workforce... They are not exactly yanks trying to dodge tax.

                                                                          [email protected]
                                                                          icq: 205-252-550

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • bizarredollars
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Mar 2006
                                                                              • 1582
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by DamageX
                                                                              PayPal Europe is NOT a US company. Its owners may be US-based, but the company abides by laws in other countries. Depending on those laws, disclosing financial info to the US government about any of their non-US companies may be a crime.
                                                                              Agreed... The company directors can be anywhere.. it's where the company trades that is important.. PayPal US deals with the Yanks, PayPal EU deals with Europe... It does not take a genius to understand that.

                                                                              [email protected]
                                                                              icq: 205-252-550

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • CWeb
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • May 2007
                                                                                  • 245
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                                  You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

                                                                                  There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.
                                                                                  Know nothing about how ebay is constructed and, rest assured, they will have spent plenty time arranging their affairs.

                                                                                  There are too many possibilties and biz arrangements and it's really up to whatever directors are in place in any legal entities in whatever countries as to how they behave. They will be governed by the laws of the country of incorporation.

                                                                                  Example... a possible accquistion may not even be financed by ebay and the lenders can be directors of totally different legal entities in other countries - and some of these directors may represent lenders. Each legal entitity is responsible for it's own conduct and will have it's own deals with other corps.

                                                                                  As far as any possible limited disclosure to EU clients is concerned - that's not a big deal - tho may not be the purpose of the move or the reason for bank formation.

                                                                                  It's very hard to say "it's all ebay" - doubt life is that simple man.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • CWeb
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • May 2007
                                                                                      • 245
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by DamageX
                                                                                      Its owners may be US-based, but the company abides by laws in other countries. Depending on those laws, disclosing financial info to the US government about any of their non-US companies may be a crime.
                                                                                      Damn Totally correct Damage :-)

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Pornwolf
                                                                                          Drunk and Unruly
                                                                                          • Jan 2002
                                                                                          • 22712
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Some things are not that simple.

                                                                                          Let's say the US gov wants records on a swath of customers that have accounts with PayPal EU. Well, PayPal will take into consideration how much those customers mean to them then give up the goods faster than you can say EPassporte.

                                                                                          "Why" you ask?

                                                                                          Because they are related... joined at the hip... no matter what the paperwork says. If the Gov is having a hard time with Paypal US in regard to records they will put the kind of pressure that they are known to put on companies that don't play nice with their requests. The IRS, The Treasury Dept, and all kinds of BS legislation can and usually is used in these kinds of cases. Paypal knows that and they also know protecting you is not worth any kind of issues Stateside.

                                                                                          While that Luxembourg privacy status is a wonderful thing and it actually means something for your average customer... you would be amazed at how quickly the wind changes and you are in the cross hairs of the US Government's targets if you are selling to US customers.

                                                                                          But don't listen to me, keep thinking PayPal offers some kind of real privacy protection. Just keep your nose clean or else you will find out what I am talking about first hand.
                                                                                          I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

                                                                                          Webair, bitches.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • u-Bob
                                                                                              there's no $$$ in porn
                                                                                              • Jul 2005
                                                                                              • 33063
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by demon100
                                                                                              i live in belgium and alot of people have bank accounts in luxemburg cause its a sort of tax paradise in some ways ... it whould have to do something with that .
                                                                                              A lot of belgians USED TO HAVE bank accounts in luxembourg. These days, if you have the belgian nationality and you have $$$ stashed in Luxembourg, there's no 'tax benefit' whatsoever. Lux banks take what you owe the belgian gov from your account.....

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • CWeb
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • May 2007
                                                                                                  • 245
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                                                  Some things are not that simple.

                                                                                                  Let's say the US gov wants records on a swath of customers that have accounts with PayPal EU. Well, PayPal will take into consideration how much those customers mean to them then give up the goods faster than you can say EPassporte.
                                                                                                  Sure.. anything is possible and if the reasoning is possibly along the lines of eg tax evasion or other criminal activity - sure, there is likely to be a degree of cooperation.

                                                                                                  Give you an example (actual)... of Luxembourg - and this applies to *anywhere* including the US. Two law officers were tracking a target who was known to be involved in financial crimes (and other stuff). They followed the target thru a few Euro countries until he reached the border of Luxembourg. At that point they turned back and drove home.

                                                                                                  Why? Because they would have no cooperation from Lux authorities unless they presented a case in court (at that point, there was no chance of this). Lux law may sure be interested and the financial regulatory authority would be - but that is another matter which they would investigate themselves.

                                                                                                  If there are genuine crimes, of course there will most likely be cooperation - especially if drugs or financial stuff - but lesser chance if the "crimes" were re tax offenses in other countries. The reason for that is that whatever crimes there are, must be crimes in both jurisdictions - and if there are no tax issues, that would not apply.

                                                                                                  Again.. there is the gungho approach of threats which has been used by the US in both Switzerland and Luxembourg and these used to work - but lesser chance now unless actual evidence is provided to judges.

                                                                                                  There are all kinds of pressures which could be applied - but doubt they will apply up to fishing expeditions and nosy interest. The existing laws of the country of incorporation come above that level.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • DamageX
                                                                                                      Marketing & Strategy
                                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                                      • 14293
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                                                      Some things are not that simple.

                                                                                                      Let's say the US gov wants records on a swath of customers that have accounts with PayPal EU. Well, PayPal will take into consideration how much those customers mean to them then give up the goods faster than you can say EPassporte.

                                                                                                      "Why" you ask?

                                                                                                      Because they are related... joined at the hip... no matter what the paperwork says. If the Gov is having a hard time with Paypal US in regard to records they will put the kind of pressure that they are known to put on companies that don't play nice with their requests. The IRS, The Treasury Dept, and all kinds of BS legislation can and usually is used in these kinds of cases. Paypal knows that and they also know protecting you is not worth any kind of issues Stateside.

                                                                                                      While that Luxembourg privacy status is a wonderful thing and it actually means something for your average customer... you would be amazed at how quickly the wind changes and you are in the cross hairs of the US Government's targets if you are selling to US customers.

                                                                                                      But don't listen to me, keep thinking PayPal offers some kind of real privacy protection. Just keep your nose clean or else you will find out what I am talking about first hand.
                                                                                                      What you don't show any evidence of realizing is that PayPal Europe is for EUROPEANS. Which means the US government has ZERO jurisdiction to request info on ANY of the clients of PayPal Europe. The most they can do is petition local governments to request that info, using a court order, and cross their fingers that they'll find it fishy enough to share it. This doesn't even have anything to do with PayPal relocating their European division to Luxembourg, this is the reality TODAY. PayPal account holders residing in the USA are subject to US laws. Others aren't.
                                                                                                      Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                                                      If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • CWeb
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • May 2007
                                                                                                          • 245
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by DamageX
                                                                                                          What you don't show any evidence of realizing is that PayPal Europe is for EUROPEANS. Which means the US government has ZERO jurisdiction to request info on ANY of the clients of PayPal Europe. The most they can do is petition local governments to request that info, using a court order, and cross their fingers that they'll find it fishy enough to share it. This doesn't even have anything to do with PayPal relocating their European division to Luxembourg, this is the reality TODAY. PayPal account holders residing in the USA are subject to US laws. Others aren't.
                                                                                                          That is back to jurisdictional stuff again Damage - and you are correct. Basically PayPal Europe (or whatever their corp is called) is a legal entity operating under whatever Euro country laws and presumably dealing with EU clients.

                                                                                                          And.. as you said, same with US clients under US laws.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • CWeb
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • May 2007
                                                                                                              • 245
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              BTW... On the amusing side...

                                                                                                              There are all kinds of possible scenarios which can be used to limit intrusion.. Not saying this applies in the PayPal instance, but is not unusual where there may be possible attempted jurisdictional abuse.

                                                                                                              A corp in one jurisdiction can simply give rights to trade is name/copyright stuff and eg "software tools" etc to a corp in another jurisdiction - for $X thousand dollars/month. In effect - a leasing contract.

                                                                                                              The corp in the other juridisdiction is obliged for follow the laws of that jurisdiction and has a different set of directors. That corp is not "beholden" to anyone other than it's clients/shareholders and the govt under whose laws it operates - as long as it pays it's $X/month to it's "leasing company".

                                                                                                              The profits the corp may generate is a matter for the directors to handle in whatever way they see fit - these do not necessarily have to be passed back to the "leasing company", but can be invested wherever to the benefit of shareholders in that entity.

                                                                                                              The problem here is we have no damned clue about what Paypal's personal biz is and they sure as hell are not going to be discussing it with anyone - and who cares? But hey! - it's GFY :-)

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • Pornwolf
                                                                                                                  Drunk and Unruly
                                                                                                                  • Jan 2002
                                                                                                                  • 22712
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Yup... back to what I said originally... who gives a shit? ;)
                                                                                                                  I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

                                                                                                                  Webair, bitches.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • Iron Fist
                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                      • Dec 2006
                                                                                                                      • 23400
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by BigPinPin
                                                                                                                      Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.
                                                                                                                      100% with ya on that...
                                                                                                                      i like waffles

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • DamageX
                                                                                                                          Marketing & Strategy
                                                                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                          • 14293
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                                                                          Yup... back to what I said originally... who gives a shit? ;)
                                                                                                                          You obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't have spent so much time arguing over this.
                                                                                                                          Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                                                                          If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                                                                                            Comment

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