Chargebacks 11 days after issuing refund - anybody seen this happen?

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  • iSpyCams
    Amateur Gynecologist
    • May 2009
    • 4436
    #1

    Chargebacks 11 days after issuing refund - anybody seen this happen?

    About 16 days ago I noticed an affiliate appeared to be carding my program.

    I banned him and tried to issue refunds to all his members. There were over 20.

    I quickly hit the limit of refunds I was allowed to issue at that time and contacted the billing company's live support. - Who asked me to create a ticket.

    After my ticket was ignored for 3 days I decided to try issuing refunds again, this time I was more scientific and prioritized the ones that looked "most fraudulent" and was able to more or less take care of the situation.

    Today however, two of the refunds I issued came back as charge-backs, 11 full days after the refunds were issued.

    My ticket is STILL being ignored.

    How is that even possible? Is this something that happens a lot?
    - As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.
    Tags: None
    • TheDoc
      Too lazy to set a custom title
      • Jul 2001
      • 13827
      #2
      Sounds like the bank beat you guys to the punch.
      ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
      It's all disambiguation

        Comment

        • iSpyCams
          Amateur Gynecologist
          • May 2009
          • 4436
          #3
          If it had been one or two days later I would understand, but 11 days seems like plenty of time for a chargeback that is already issued to hit.

          I wonder if the biller just sat on the refund and tried to keep the money.

          I wonder what is the point of refunding charges that appear fraudulent if I am gonna get hit with a chargeback anyway. ( and lose the money TWICE plus fees)

          I don't know, which is why I am not naming the biller. I just wonder what others have experienced.
          - As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.

            Comment

            • Senior_Spank
              Registered User
              • Aug 2006
              • 63
              #4
              It's possible that it's a scam. Get a double-refund into the card, withdraw the fraudulent cash out of an ATM, the merchant (you) is now liable for chargeback & refund.

              The CC company won't give those funds back if they don't have access to them, they just pass the buck.

                Comment

                • iSpyCams
                  Amateur Gynecologist
                  • May 2009
                  • 4436
                  #5
                  I would consider that except I know for a fact that the sales were fraudulent,

                  1) Known proxies
                  2) IP's thousands of miles from billing zip code
                  3) fake emails

                  That's why I refunded them in the first place.

                  I understand a savvy consumer could make sales himself under these conditions if he was planning this kind of action, but several consumers under the same aff code?

                  This is textbook affiliate fraud if there ever was such a thing.
                  - As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.

                    Comment

                    • Zyber
                      Confirmed User
                      • Aug 2001
                      • 832
                      #6
                      Who is this biller who ignores your tickets?

                        Comment

                        • TheDoc
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Jul 2001
                          • 13827
                          #7
                          While I can't say that I've seen this exact issue. I have seen some crazy stats show up due to fraud/refunds/cb's, I'm sure many others have as well.

                          Support wise... most of the normal support people don't really know shit and the chain of commands seems to fail, often, when higher support requests come in. I would suggest contacting someone else, depending on the biller you could contact the fraud department directly, or ask around for the lead techs email, and sometimes the manager of support can help and if all else fails, call them.
                          Last edited by TheDoc; 11-11-2010, 01:27 PM.
                          ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                          It's all disambiguation

                            Comment

                            • Alky
                              Confirmed User
                              • Apr 2002
                              • 5651
                              #8
                              Anyone who has a problem with fraud should look into minFraud http://www.maxmind.com/app/ccv_overview - it's owned by Maxmind.

                              We use it in our mainstream site, and have almost eliminated fraud. Basically what they do is create a score based on a lot of factors. You don't send any credit card information if you don't want, a optional value is the BIN number on the CC, but not the entire CC. They check for known open proxies, distance between IP, and billing address and things like that.

                              We love it, and it's really cheap.

                                Comment

                                • kristin
                                  GOO!
                                  • Sep 2002
                                  • 9768
                                  #9
                                  Merchant or third party processor?

                                  I'm wondering if some of the credits looked like they went through on your system but didn't on the processor side. I've seen it happen before and you think you've credited them but then all come back later and CB.

                                  And if a biller ever ignored me for so long when you pay them a pretty processing fee; I'd find a new one.
                                  Vacares rules.

                                  "Usually only fat guys have the kind of knowledge and ability that Kristin has."

                                    Comment

                                    • iSpyCams
                                      Amateur Gynecologist
                                      • May 2009
                                      • 4436
                                      #10
                                      Good point Kristen, I'm still not willing to name them as I am giving them time to process my second ticket.

                                      It is a 3rd party processor and of course I will be dropping them to a nice low spot on my cascades if I am not satisfied with the outcome.

                                      Thanks Alky for your tip about he Maxmind product, I will be following up with them shortly.
                                      - As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.

                                        Comment

                                        • ShellyCrash
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jun 2004
                                          • 6708
                                          #11
                                          Sounds like you should switch billing companies.

                                          I don't know if getting your own merch acct is out of the question, but this is a perfect example of why I use Netbilling.

                                          Never a problem like this, ever.

                                          Start making money with the hottest hookup site!
                                          up to $55 PPS or up to 75% Revshare
                                          ICQ 196766477

                                            Comment

                                            • lagcam
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Jul 2007
                                              • 2890
                                              #12
                                              Yes, I have had it happen also. Three times actually.

                                              Basically, if you don't catch a bad card while the transaction is still voidable (normally about 8 hours) then there is always a risk this will happen.
                                              Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

                                                Comment

                                                • sponsornetworks
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Feb 2010
                                                  • 297
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by Alky
                                                  Anyone who has a problem with fraud should look into minFraud http://www.maxmind.com/app/ccv_overview - it's owned by Maxmind.

                                                  We use it in our mainstream site, and have almost eliminated fraud. Basically what they do is create a score based on a lot of factors. You don't send any credit card information if you don't want, a optional value is the BIN number on the CC, but not the entire CC. They check for known open proxies, distance between IP, and billing address and things like that.

                                                  We love it, and it's really cheap.
                                                  you right
                                                  i love maxmind too
                                                  I am back !!!

                                                    Comment

                                                    • cocainer
                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                      • Jun 2010
                                                      • 164
                                                      #14
                                                      jeez that carder has balls using public proxies.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • iSpyCams
                                                          Amateur Gynecologist
                                                          • May 2009
                                                          • 4436
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by cocainer
                                                          jeez that carder has balls using public proxies.
                                                          Not public, the biller already has filtering in place to prevent that, but there are other ways to discover proxies.
                                                          - As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • V_RocKs
                                                              Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
                                                              • Nov 2003
                                                              • 32448
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by pompousjohn
                                                              Good point Kristen, I'm still not willing to name them as I am giving them time to process my second ticket.

                                                              It is a 3rd party processor and of course I will be dropping them to a nice low spot on my cascades if I am not satisfied with the outcome.

                                                              Thanks Alky for your tip about he Maxmind product, I will be following up with them shortly.
                                                              If this was a smaller biller this could have been your problem in the first place.

                                                              Why use them in the cascade if they aren't filtering this for you?

                                                              I highly doubt either CCBILL or EPOCH would have let things get this far. Or let your ticket sit in the oven until its all burnt and crispy.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • RaiderCash_Dominik
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jan 2010
                                                                  • 1145
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Had that happened once with Segpay.
                                                                  I think we got 30 dollar fee for CB as well. So it cost us 60+ bucks for that "join"

                                                                    Comment

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