Should we let the Bush Tax Cuts expire?

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  • TheDoc
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Jul 2001
    • 13827
    #61
    Originally posted by Vendzilla
    No, raising the taxes didn't help get us out of it



    they don't get that, With the recent change in power, business will be more likely to concider it safe to expand, invest and more importantly hire. I figure the new congress gets into office in January and by April there will be a lowering of the unemployment rate by at least 2 full points
    Raising taxes at the worst point in our Countries history to that extreme of a rate from what it was, was stupid along with many other things they tried.... which is not what is happening today.

    We aren't talking about Corporate taxes, which aren't being adjusted and in some cases have been reduced already and plans to reduce them more.

    Reversing the bush tax cuts is personal taxes.

    The plan is to lower unemployment, which is slowly happening already with the addition of new jobs and the economy showing signs of growth all over the place. The rep's being in power, with no power - isn't going to spark anything that isn't already happening.
    Last edited by TheDoc; 11-06-2010, 06:27 PM.
    ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
    It's all disambiguation

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      • Vendzilla
        Biker Gnome
        • Mar 2004
        • 23200
        #62
        Originally posted by TheDoc
        The plan is to lower unemployment, which is slowly happening already with the addition of new jobs and the economy showing signs of growth all over the place. The rep's being in power, with no power - isn't going to spark anything that isn't already happening.
        when the country is adding jobs, I'll believe it's getting better, but they get excited when we lose less jobs and I just don't have that enthusiasmi
        Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
        think about that

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          • GatorB
            The Demon & 12clicks
            • Oct 2001
            • 18208
            #63
            Originally posted by IllTestYourGirls
            Letting people keep their own money is never a good idea.
            Yeah let's do away with ALL taxes and things will be sooo much better. I mean we won't have a military or decent roads or bridges or police or fire dept or lots of other things but we'll have all this fucking money to spend.

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              • GatorB
                The Demon & 12clicks
                • Oct 2001
                • 18208
                #64
                Originally posted by Vendzilla
                when the country is adding jobs, I'll believe it's getting better,
                Great news then since in Oct we added the most jobs since April. In fact we've added a half million jobs since then.

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                  • Ethersync
                    Confirmed User
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 5289
                    #65
                    Originally posted by TheDoc
                    Are you trying to say that raising taxes created the Great Depression or that lowering it got us out? Because neither is true.

                    What about all the other times tax rates were way higher? Easily half of the last decades taxes were higher than the peak they hit and we didn't drop into a depression, economy didn't fail, business didn't stop doing business and the world didn't end.

                    If you want the facts..
                    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=200

                    http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
                    We were on a gold standard until 1971 so printing money was not an option like it is now. If money was needed taxes went up. We were also a creditor nation. We were lending money to other countries and not borrowing like now. Also, our actual tax rate is not entirely accurate because we are taxed through inflation now more so than ever. $1 in 2010 was worth $0.18 in 1970. There was also WWI and WWII to pay for and the US largely funded the rebuilding of Europe after WWII.

                    The bottom line is the problems we face now were not in any way caused by tax cuts nor was Great Depression 1.0 and anyone saying so is misinformed.
                    The best ePassporte replacement I have found: OKPAY

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                      • TheDoc
                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                        • Jul 2001
                        • 13827
                        #66
                        Originally posted by Vendzilla
                        when the country is adding jobs, I'll believe it's getting better, but they get excited when we lose less jobs and I just don't have that enthusiasmi
                        Oh sweet then, you'll be happy to know they added about 150k jobs in October. Which is sweet when Jobs are normally the very last thing to return after a large economic downturn.
                        ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                        It's all disambiguation

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                          • Ethersync
                            Confirmed User
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 5289
                            #67
                            Originally posted by TheDoc
                            Oh sweet then, you'll be happy to know they added about 150k jobs in October. Which is sweet when Jobs are normally the very last thing to return after a large economic downturn.
                            ...and yet the unemployment rate remains 9.6%.
                            The best ePassporte replacement I have found: OKPAY

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                              • TheDoc
                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                • Jul 2001
                                • 13827
                                #68
                                Originally posted by Ethersync
                                We were on a gold standard until 1971 so printing money was not an option like it is now. If money was needed taxes went up. We were also a creditor nation. We were lending money to other countries and not borrowing like now. Also, our actual tax rate is not entirely accurate because we are taxed through inflation now more so than ever. $1 in 2010 was worth $0.18 in 1970. There was also WWI and WWII to pay for and the US largely funded the rebuilding of Europe after WWII.

                                The bottom line is the problems we face now were not in any way caused by tax cuts nor was Great Depression 1.0 and anyone saying so is misinformed.
                                Don't forget the fed reserve and all the jazz that goes with that.

                                Knowing what the tax rates were pre 71 almost makes the gold standard sound scary. Yeah more real wealth, lower inflation but damn if they let anyone keep it.

                                True, none of the problems we have today or then were due to tax cuts... however, todays tax cuts are adding to problems with the way things currently operate.
                                ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                It's all disambiguation

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                                  • TheDoc
                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                    • Jul 2001
                                    • 13827
                                    #69
                                    Originally posted by Ethersync
                                    ...and yet the unemployment rate remains 9.6%.

                                    Last I heard the rate in July was 9.7 and had hit 9.2% in Sept and held it in Oct, even though we added 150k jobs. 150k added is a net gain, but in the ratio of millions of jobs lost overall, it's a tiny gain. But that doesn't mean it isn't good. %'s really make no difference (most of those jobs will never return) we've dropped this year either way and increased jobs... not bad at all.


                                    edit: went and looked, it is 9.6 - either way, point was it has dropped and net jobs have gone up. It's not huge, but anyone expecting it to be at this point, when some jobs are gone forever, would be crazy.
                                    Last edited by TheDoc; 11-06-2010, 06:58 PM.
                                    ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                    It's all disambiguation

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                                      • Ethersync
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Mar 2008
                                        • 5289
                                        #70
                                        Originally posted by TheDoc
                                        True, none of the problems we have today or then were due to tax cuts... however, todays tax cuts are adding to problems with the way things currently operate.
                                        Tax cuts or not we are fucked.
                                        The best ePassporte replacement I have found: OKPAY

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                                          • TheDoc
                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                            • Jul 2001
                                            • 13827
                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by Ethersync
                                            Tax cuts or not we are fucked.
                                            Seems that way.

                                            Even if the fed, state, local stops spending all money and all taxes stay the same and went to pay that off our debts, we're looking at 5 years. With a total shut down Country for 5 years...which probably isn't a good thing.

                                            So yeah, pretty fucked..
                                            ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                            It's all disambiguation

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                                              • Ethersync
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Mar 2008
                                                • 5289
                                                #72
                                                Originally posted by TheDoc
                                                Last I heard the rate in July was 9.7 and had hit 9.2% in Sept and held it in Oct, even though we added 150k jobs. 150k added is a net gain, but in the ratio of millions of jobs lost overall, it's a tiny gain. But that doesn't mean it isn't good. %'s really make no difference (most of those jobs will never return) we've dropped this year either way and increased jobs... not bad at all.


                                                edit: went and looked, it is 9.6 - either way, point was it has dropped and net jobs have gone up. It's not huge, but anyone expecting it to be at this point, when some jobs are gone forever, would be crazy talk.
                                                It's crazy government math is what it is. They announce positive sounding numbers to get headlines and then revise them down later when no one is paying attention to the old numbers and only focused on the new numbers. It's also not an accident that unemployment has not hit 10% yet. It's not palatable to have double digit unemployment so they fudge the numbers down. Shadow Stats puts real unemployment well over 20%: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate...loyment-charts
                                                The best ePassporte replacement I have found: OKPAY

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                                                  • TheDoc
                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                    • Jul 2001
                                                    • 13827
                                                    #73
                                                    Originally posted by Ethersync
                                                    It's crazy government math is what it is. They announce positive sounding numbers to get headlines and then revise them down later when no one is paying attention to the old numbers and only focused on the new numbers. It's also not an accident that unemployment has not hit 10% yet. It's not palatable to have double digit unemployment so they fudge the numbers down. Shadow Stats puts real unemployment well over 20%: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate...loyment-charts
                                                    I really don't keep up with the %'s much... I'm sure the numbers are much higher than the gov projects though.

                                                    For me, jobs going up or down, really don't tell me how good things are doing. Jobs really are the last thing to return in big economic downturns, so even looking at this year or from our peak to now - is truly too short of a period of time.

                                                    For me, the day we can say the average wage across the Country has increased is the day we can celebrate a true positive change for the Countries economy.
                                                    ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                                    It's all disambiguation

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                                                      • Vendzilla
                                                        Biker Gnome
                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                        • 23200
                                                        #74
                                                        Originally posted by GatorB
                                                        Great news then since in Oct we added the most jobs since April. In fact we've added a half million jobs since then.
                                                        Originally posted by TheDoc
                                                        Oh sweet then, you'll be happy to know they added about 150k jobs in October. Which is sweet when Jobs are normally the very last thing to return after a large economic downturn.
                                                        Originally posted by TheDoc
                                                        Last I heard the rate in July was 9.7 and had hit 9.2% in Sept and held it in Oct, even though we added 150k jobs. 150k added is a net gain, but in the ratio of millions of jobs lost overall, it's a tiny gain. But that doesn't mean it isn't good. %'s really make no difference (most of those jobs will never return) we've dropped this year either way and increased jobs... not bad at all.


                                                        edit: went and looked, it is 9.6 - either way, point was it has dropped and net jobs have gone up. It's not huge, but anyone expecting it to be at this point, when some jobs are gone forever, would be crazy.
                                                        yes, there was gains, but we are still losing jobs

                                                        The advance number of actual initial claims under state programs, unadjusted, totaled 419,351 in the week ending Oct. 30, an increase of 10,881 from the previous week. There were 482,612 initial claims in the comparable week in 2009

                                                        http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/e...ta20101516.htm

                                                        Just a slower pace, so forgive me if I dont get all excited
                                                        Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                        think about that

                                                          Comment

                                                          • tony286
                                                            lurker
                                                            • Aug 2002
                                                            • 57021
                                                            #75
                                                            If it wasnt for taxes that paid for the gov funds given for the creation of the net. Most here wouldnt have worry about being in a higher bracket .

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