IS THIS THEFT ??? And does anybody else agree that I am being FUCKED here ?? - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

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#1

IS THIS THEFT ??? And does anybody else agree that I am being FUCKED here ??

05-07-2002, 05:18 AM

Here is the scenario ... I woud like some honest feedback.

I was approached by my client's "go between" man to do an amateur paysite.
The original instructions were for a site that was not too professional looking ... professional quality, while conserving a very amateur look.

I was paid my usual 50% upfront fee by paypal.

I laid out a rough front page design, to which the client did not approve of it. No problem ... I started from the ground up once again ... got the front page layout done, and once again the client was not happy with it ... the client proceeded to send me all kinds of URLS to very professional COOKIE CUTTER sites ... not even amateur sites but Pornstar and hardcore paysites ...

I explained to the customer that this was not what he had originally asked me for, but I would be more than happy to accomodate him ...

I gave the contact guy a URL to my development server, to see the layout to Design#3 now for approval ... The contact got back to me and said that YES the client was finally happy with this one, and he would like us to go ahead and complete it.

When i showed the client the completed site, except for the mouseovers and slicing, he informs me that he has changed his mind, and no longer likes this design ...

I asked to speak directly with the client several times, and each time I am told that he is a very busy man, and does not have the time to discuss this with me ...

He suggests that since we cannot do a paysite tour to his liking, that maybe we could do a webmaster affiliate program for him instead ... he sends me the URLS to two sites that he likes, and I (against my better judgement), agreed to do the work.

As I am finishing the layout of the main template ... the contact sends me another URL, and says that his client wants his site to look like THIS SITE ... needless to say this site was FAR MORE graphically intense than the other samples put together ...

As I am getting really pissed off at this jumping through hoops, a friend of mine who knows that I was working on the paysite design ICQ'ed me to tell me that the THIRD design that he did not like, was uploaded to his domain, and was LIVE !!!

I NEVER GAVE HIM ANY FILES !!! THE ONLY WAY HE COULD HAVE ACQUIRED THE FILES WAS TO GO AND STEAL THEM OFF MY DEVELOPMENT SERVER !!!

I told the contact, that if he is serving the files from his server, he needs to pay me for them in full ... and then I was informed that he would not pay for them because he was not satisfied with the work ...

Now to make a long story longer .. he is telling me that I still owe him $500 of work for the money he sent me already ... I do not think I owe him anything ...

If you rob a bank, get caught, and then offer to give back the money ... that does not get you out of trouble, does it ??? YOU ARE STILL A THIEF !!

Please give me some insight as to how you(s) would handle this ???

Last edited by -=HUNGRYMAN=-; 05-07-2002, 05:23 AM.
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RockDaddy

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#2

05-07-2002, 05:29 AM

If he's using them, then he's happy as far as I would be concerned and that would be the end of that deal.

If he pushed it, I'd tell him to take me to court
and we'll let the judge decide. I would have as many
people as possible go look at their live site you did, save
their pages and any server logs showing them grabbing your
files also.

Lastly, I wouldn't do any business with them again!

RD
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#3

05-07-2002, 05:31 AM

Hungry you are Right on.............the fucker is using you to get free work and is taking all your work and time and using the samples..............

You owe him squat, he owes you big time. Fine if he decided to use #3 but then pay for it ..........

I would also ring the go betweens neck for being wague about "his" client .......................

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#4

05-07-2002, 05:33 AM

if he's stolen one of your designs and it's live tell him to go to hell.. forget the other $500.. you'll never see that again with someone so duplicitous.. move on.. you got paid half for a full design that he is using.. at least with flash there are a few things you can do to deter dishonest clients (like load a movie that says "unpaid" until they do).. then again if they've gotten into your development server theres not much you can do regardless..
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Gemini

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#5

05-07-2002, 05:33 AM

We'd tell him like it or not, he took a design and is using it... so theat basically implies acceptance of the work and you are square. Just don't do any more owrk for them!

When someone doesn't like the design by your third time thru, you should put on the brakes right then and explain that you will do one more draft and if they don't like that, they can keep the other 50% of the money and you will refund like half od what they gave you up front.

Or make your half down as non-refundable in a contract form that they have to electronically sign (showing acknowledgment as well as legal acceptance to those terms. Even better is to deal in faxes with hand signatures.

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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

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#6

05-07-2002, 05:46 AM

Thank you guys (and Gem ) for your feedback ..

I just wanted confirmation that the way I saw this, was indeed the correct way.

I am sooo upset over this fucker right now ... I did not want to act out of haste, and have it come back to bite me in the ass!
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#7

05-07-2002, 05:49 AM

Fuck the Fucker
Place his name and url here so we know.
Sue him

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XXXPaysiteDesign

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#8

05-07-2002, 05:53 AM

Hungry, I'd assume you have the PSD files, show his host and have him shut down for stealing the images.

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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

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#9

05-07-2002, 05:56 AM

PB TECH claims only to be representing an un-named client
Here is the WHOIS

Registrant:
PBTech Webhosting
Koningsplein 3
Den Haag, ZH 2518JD
NL

Domain Name: AMATEUREXCLUSIVES.COM

Administrative Contact:
B, Rob [email protected]
Koningsplein 3
Den Haag, ZH 2518JD
NL
31 70 4279850

Technical Contact:
B, Rob [email protected]
Koningsplein 3
Den Haag, ZH 2518JD
NL
31 70 4279850

Billing Contact:
B, Rob [email protected]
Koningsplein 3
Den Haag, ZH 2518JD
NL
31 70 4279850

Record last updated on 15-Apr-2002.
Record expires on 15-Apr-2003.
Record Created on 15-Apr-2002.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.PBTECH.NET 62.129.132.10
NS2.PBTECH.NET 213.239.149.164
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Naughty

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#10

05-07-2002, 05:56 AM

Right on Hungryman, unfortunately there are clients like that. It would not surprise me if the 'middleman' took your designs and sold them as 'his'.

Be carefull you won't see your other declined designs on the net soon!

The 500$ is yours, you spend more than enough time on the projects I assume.

seks.ai for sale - ping me
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TheApostate

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#11

05-07-2002, 05:58 AM

sue him, and reveal him so we all know not to deal with him
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Rich J.

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#12

05-07-2002, 06:04 AM

Went to amateurexclusives.com to steal the design for my own use but there was nothing there. Was this domain it was on? If not it would be great if you could get me pointed in the right direction.

Adult Web Marketing Specialist with 10 years of Industry Experience - CONTACT ME
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Roxxy

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#13

05-07-2002, 06:07 AM

I agree, Fuck the Fucker!

I would spam all the boards with his name, URL and the kind of business he dose... BAD BUSINESS. Make sure he never gets an inch in our biz. I hate little dick pricks like that.

Roxxy
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Dualcpu

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#14

05-07-2002, 06:10 AM

Hungryman,

I work with the company respresenting the client.

Can you contact them to get this handled?
The client wants to close this thing.
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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

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#15

05-07-2002, 06:13 AM

A WHOIS on another domain he wanted me to do work for brings up this info

Pearl, Rob (RP1215) [email protected]
AccessX Inc.
Box N1612, 104b Saffrey
Square Bank Lane & Bay Street
Nassau
BS
555858

Keep in mind that Bahamas is a DUTCH colony, that they use to avoid taxes .... Hmmmm

Fuckers !!
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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

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#16

05-07-2002, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by Dualcpu
Hungryman,

I work with the company respresenting the client.

Can you contact them to get this handled?
The client wants to close this thing.

Dualcpu :

Maybe "the client" should have not tried to fuck me soo many times ?!?

Anyways ... I have had my little rant, and I am done with this issue now ... time to move on to PAYING JOBS !!!
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Babaganoosh

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#17

05-07-2002, 06:20 AM

Damnit I hate that. I feel for ya man. Thank god I just do Perl and PHP. Nobody gets the code for their custom projects unless I send it to them.

I like pie.
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Dualcpu

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#18

05-07-2002, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-

Dualcpu :

Maybe "the client" should have not tried to fuck me soo many times ?!?

Anyways ... I have had my little rant, and I am done with this issue now ... time to move on to PAYING JOBS !!!

Hello,

I respect your opinion on this matter.
The company I work with is very carefull with the privacy of their clients, even if the client is not as easy going.

Please contact the people you have been in touch with and get this sorted.

Thank you.
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#19

05-07-2002, 06:20 AM

I know it's a little late for this, but due to the the fact world is full of cheap, lying, fucks....I always watermark the shit out of everything till the check clears the bank, then I delete the layer with the watermarks on it. The temptation to snag your work for free is just too much for some people.
Just have your lawyer contact him, a phone call might be all it takes to clear it up. When they realize your aren't fucking around
they might take their head out of their ass.
Good Luck man.
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#20

05-07-2002, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Keep in mind that Bahamas is a DUTCH colony, that they use to avoid taxes ....

What the hell are you talking about?
Either I am very dumb, or you are mis-informed. The Dutch Antilles is Dutch and ppl used to set up a company there to be able to use the ABC (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacau) -formula for their taxes. They could use the lower income tax there to switch cash to daughter companies from the Netherlands. That is all history now as well...

Last edited by Naughty; 05-07-2002, 06:28 AM.

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#21

05-07-2002, 06:35 AM

thieving bastard

(still angry from the "bill" guy who sold fucking 4 chapters of my gambling ebook and sold from his site)

but -=HUNGRYMAN=- ya know... his sh!t will hit him in the face when he at least expectz it

Rgds
Vegas

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Who the fuck told you to talk to me??!"
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DTK

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#22

05-07-2002, 06:48 AM

Sorry to hear it, dude

Thieves

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DTK

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#23

05-07-2002, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Naughty

What the hell are you talking about?
Either I am very dumb, or you are mis-informed. The Dutch Antilles is Dutch and ppl used to set up a company there to be able to use the ABC (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacau) -formula for their taxes. They could use the lower income tax there to switch cash to daughter companies from the Netherlands. That is all history now as well...

I think you're correct. 99.9% sure that the Bahamas is an independent country.

Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.
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#24

05-07-2002, 06:57 AM

There are many fuckers in the world, so we can't prevent from being fucked by them. Now its the time for us to fuck them.
Shut this fucker down forever, bro!!!
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GTS Mark

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#25

05-07-2002, 07:17 AM

Thanks for letting us know the company name Hungry... I will make sure NEVER to do business with them in future dealings... You fuck with one canuck you fuck with us all...

DH
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Dualcpu

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#26

05-07-2002, 07:22 AM

I wonder why people accept one side of the story just like that.

Makes no sence.

The company involved REPRESENTS their clients and thats where it ends.

If Hungryman has problems with the client he shall request the contact information and talk to him/her himself.

I can't believe some people.
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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

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#27

05-07-2002, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by DrinkingHard
Thanks for letting us know the company name Hungry... I will make sure NEVER to do business with them in future dealings... You fuck with one canuck you fuck with us all...

DH

In all fairness ... I do not know HOW involved in this PBTECH actually is ... they claim to be representing a Very sucessful businessman ... one who does not understand stealing unfinished work and publishing it to the web is bad ...

Anyhow ... I have spoke with Pascal several times in the past, and he seemed like a straight up guy, so I want to give him every benefit of the doubt ...

But the whole secrecy thing is rubbing me the wrong way ...
I was not allowed to deal with the client directly even when the deal started deteriorating I was told that they were protecting the privacy of a very sucessful businessman ... well fuck me ... his sucess is certainly not gauged on his professionalism ????
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Dualcpu

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#28

05-07-2002, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-

In all fairness ... I do not know HOW involved in this PBTECH actually is ... they claim to be representing a Very sucessful businessman ... one who does not understand stealing unfinished work and publishing it to the web is bad ...

Anyhow ... I have spoke with Pascal several times in the past, and he seemed like a straight up guy, so I want to give him every benefit of the doubt ...

But the whole secrecy thing is rubbing me the wrong way ...
I was not allowed to deal with the client directly even when the deal started deteriorating I was told that they were protecting the privacy of a very sucessful businessman ... well fuck me ... his sucess is certainly not gauged on his professionalism ????

Hello,

Have you spoken to them after this thread?
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Milton

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#29

05-07-2002, 07:30 AM

tell Mr thehun to pay for some thugs and go after him !
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#30

05-07-2002, 09:08 AM

IF HUNGARY MAN WASNT A FAT DRUNKEN RETARD THEN HE WOULD HAVE SEEN IT COMING. DUUUUUHHHHHHHHH...............!!

promote ME or suck my cock u bitch !!!
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0zzy

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#31

05-07-2002, 09:18 AM

Hey Hungryman,
From my point of view, if you have a deal and you did your part of deal, but the other partie didn't, than there is no more deal.

So I think you should register a domain and use yourself the design you did or sell it to someone else. That guy is trying to rip you off.

This is just my

Ozzy
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Dawgy

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#32

05-07-2002, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by Dualcpu
If Hungryman has problems with the client he shall request the contact information and talk to him/her himself.

can you not read? he said that he repeatedly asked to talk to the client and was denied. your company is just as guilty as this mystery client.

the revolution is coming.
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Za Ha

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#33

05-07-2002, 09:31 AM

that sux man

fry his ass
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Fletch XXX

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#34

05-07-2002, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by Dualcpu
I wonder why people accept one side of the story just like that.

Makes no sence.

The company involved REPRESENTS their clients and thats where it ends.

If Hungryman has problems with the client he shall request the contact information and talk to him/her himself.

I can't believe some people.

Because some of us look out for one another and have no reason to discredit Hungrymans claim. You are dealing with a clan now, a series of sites stretching around the globe many times banded together against fuckers who try to rip one of the brethren.

Be glad WE network, for it might save even you one day. (Highly Unlikely) We are only as strong as the ties that bind us.

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#35

05-07-2002, 09:33 AM

I see what is going on here. There is no go between. You are probably working with some wierdo freak who wants to simply steal from you. He is using the alias to cover up his own guilt. If he had the money to pay a go between guy then he wouldn't be fucking you!

submit your sites to
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CDSmith

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#36

05-07-2002, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Dualcpu
I wonder why people accept one side of the story just like that.
Makes no sence.

Yes, this tends to happen when people know the kind of person a guy like Hungryman is, and we tend to stand by our friends. It's a human traight.

The company involved REPRESENTS their clients and thats where it ends.

Then maybe "the company" should consider educating their clients a little more before going ahead with whatever service you provide. I also provide designs for local companies and private parties, and I must say I would be suspect from the get-go over all the secrecy your company has presented here. I think I'll pass if any such work comes my way.

If Hungryman has problems with the client he shall request the contact information and talk to him/her himself.

I'm going to suggest to Hungryman that he also visit the operating site and take some screenshots to add to the evidence. I'm also going to point out that it was "the company" that has been acting as the "go-between" all along, so why should it now be Hungryman's onus to contact anyone to get this straightened out? I should think your company would wish to aviod any kind of legal dispute and just be willing to attempt to settle the matter fairly and peacefully. I know that if I was in Hungryman's shoes there's no way I would let this drop.

I can't believe some people.

Neither can I. You seem to have no sense of what loyalty is, nor do you appear to have the professionalism to try to assist in settling this issue. I've seen Hungryman's work and it is top notch. He's done his part, and someone is obviously attempting to screw him over, and your company represents that someone. THAT is where the story ends for me sir, and as it stands I won't be recommending that anyone use your service.
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GTS Mark

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#37

05-07-2002, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by the bulldog
IF HUNGARY MAN WASNT A FAT DRUNKEN RETARD THEN HE WOULD HAVE SEEN IT COMING. DUUUUUHHHHHHHHH...............!!

Are you looking for a beating too?

DH
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cherrylula

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#38

05-07-2002, 09:46 AM

Anytime I've done business with a 50% payment up front, that's just a DEPOSIT and a non-refundable one at that. I would consider the deal done, and in fact since they're using one of your designs I would go after the remaining 50% they owe you.

In fact, I would send them a paypal payment request for every single copy of every site version they ripped off from you and hold to it.

I fucking hate people with no design or artistic skills that think they can shit on us fellow artists. If the asshole does or did not want to pay you what you are worth then he should have designed the fucking site himself.

In addition to this, unless you gave "exclusive" use rights of the design you were contracted for, you have every right to license this design use to others... for cheap too. In fact, I bet lots of people would paypal you a buck for any of those site designs ;) That would be perfectly legal I do believe. I don't know how site design ethic translates from general artist design ethic, but what I do know from experience is the creator holds most of the rights if there is not much on paper.

Good luck Hungryman!!
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Kimmykim

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#39

05-07-2002, 09:49 AM

Who holds the copyright on this design? Sorry if it's been covered, I only read about half the posts --

if you didn't give the client written permission to use the design, and you hold the copyright to the design, it's simple.

Notify his host and processor with a DMCA affadavit and they will ask him to either produce the paperwork to use the design, or he will have to take it down.
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Dualcpu

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#40

05-07-2002, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by cherrylula
Anytime I've done business with a 50% payment up front, that's just a DEPOSIT and a non-refundable one at that. I would consider the deal done, and in fact since they're using one of your designs I would go after the remaining 50% they owe you.

I just talked to the people involved.
Mister Hungryman was paid 500 USD upfront by PAYPAL.

If he could be so kind to contact us right away.
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Dualcpu

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#41

05-07-2002, 10:07 AM

Some facts:

- The design mister Hungryman made is NOT being used at all.
- mister Hungryman has been paid 500 USD upfront.

If he could be so kind to confirm these 2 points we would appreciate it.

Thank you.
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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

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#42

05-07-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Dualcpu
Some facts:

- The design mister Hungryman made is NOT being used at all.
- mister Hungryman has been paid 500 USD upfront.

If he could be so kind to confirm these 2 points we would appreciate it.

Thank you.

The design was on the domain for over 48 hours while I asked Pascal that it be taken down ...

You guys seem to just smokescreen the issue here ... the issue being that my design files were stolen off of my development server AFTER they had been refused by the client ...

That is a MAJOR breach in the service agreement ...
Yes I received $500 up front ... that will not even nearly cover the time we put into trying to please the client, but I will cut my losses at that.

And my solicitor has advised me that this is well within my rights.

Good Day
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Dualcpu

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#43

05-07-2002, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-

You guys seem to just smokescreen the issue here ... the issue being that my design files were stolen off of my development server AFTER they had been refused by the client ...

Hello Sir,

I feel sorry it has to end like this.

Sadly we will have to compensate our client 500 USD and you have lost alot of your valuable time.

Thank you for responding.
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Dualcpu

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#44

05-07-2002, 10:47 AM

I would appreciate if you could confirm that you were not ripped off by our company.

There was a problem with whether the design was accepted or not and that had been resolved in a timely manner but you were PAID 500 USD.

We have learned from this episode and wish you a good future.
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AdultWire

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#45

05-07-2002, 10:50 AM

Hungryman.. he's on a dedicated server. I'll see what I can do.

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AdultWire

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#46

05-07-2002, 10:51 AM

Woops.. if they've taken it down, I'm gonna leave it alone 8-)

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Dualcpu

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#47

05-07-2002, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by AdultWire
Hungryman.. he's on a dedicated server. I'll see what I can do.

Yes the owner is on a dedicated server - what is your point?

I thought it was clear that this issue has been handled?
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Dualcpu

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#48

05-07-2002, 10:54 AM

For all the people who have not read the previous messages:

This issue has been HANDLED and is regarded as CLOSED.

Mister Hungryman has the 500 USD he was paid, as compensation for his lost time.

There are NO designs up that are not completely paid for.
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Cilantro

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#49

05-07-2002, 11:00 AM

Dual CPU it seems in my opinion hungry just succeeded in getting your companies attention and now had the sites taken down, I dont consider that closed. You may, but as for the 500 designers get 50 an hour bud, in no way will that have covered what you seem to consider the value of hungrymans work. sounds like your client jerked this designer around intended on stealing the work and no you think because the designs were removed hungry owes you an apology to your company?

tell you company to learn how to "represent" clients, you claim now to have to repay your client 500? for what? fuck you and your company.

Dont come here and try to ask hungry for anything or demand shit from him or any one of us, far as I see your company owes him for 3 designs, if he was building from scratch and was a custom order, which sounds like since doesnt sound like the client had any input into the process, 500 wont fix it. your company owes hungry an apology sounds like he was commisioned for a project than your company fucked him in the end if you were the middle man it falls on you, dont try to fuck with hungry on this ass nipple.
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steffie

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#50

05-07-2002, 11:03 AM

It happend to us a while ago, this is what we did!
We made a screenpicture of the images he was using on the life site, than we took him to small claims court for the rest of our money, since he did use the graphics and design.
You need to sue the in-between guy since he is the one you were dealing with and had a contract (paypal) with.
We sued for our money and won. Good luck to you. UHM, don't forget to take a laptop and a copy with you to court or make a nice printout from the site he has the design sit on. Judges are weird and rather want to see something. Also email him and tell him you are about to do that.

Partying since '96 and not going anywhere Anna's Dorm
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