I understand my American Gun Loving Friends......theory inside

In my country I have rights, in your country the government can take them away using a loopholes such as the "patriot act". You have freedom, but your paranoid government has legislation in place to take your freedom away without a trial or a warrant. Sort of psuedo-freedom if you ask me.

fiddy perhaps?

Bingoooooo!

I think you're failing to realize that the US has a court system with rules and laws. Do you know that you need a search warrant to search a car in the US? You also need a warrant to tap anyones telephone, and then that warrant is only good to listen to that ONE person in the house and only on that ONE phone line. If the person uses a new phone, the police need a new warrant; if the persons wife is on the phone, all of that is illegal to listen to and inadmissible in court.

The US PATRIOT ACT does have some shady dealings, but if you do end up getting busted under it, you still have the legal system to go through to defend yourself. It isn't this huge government spy network listening to everything...

People have been charged for unrelated crimes (ie. growing a couple pot plants in their bedroom) after being searched without warrant under the patriot act. Probably doesn't happen a whole lot, but it's still a serious problem. It's shady, and so is the way they snuck it into legislation.

Most of the laws that are "considered to infringe on freedom" effect the lower classes in this country. (It all depends on who is in controll.)
If you have money the laws effect you at a much smaller level .

Just something to think about

thats not true at all. there is judicial oversight and the system functions exactly as it should.. to protect peoples rights. you are confusing paranoid rhetoric surrounding debates and actual fact.

A critique you say? How about total fallacy?

Blatant trolling.

Par for the course when you can put your nose in the air, eh?

Good for you.

Under most circumstances (Patriot Act or not), the police need a search warrant to enter a residence. The only time a police do not need a warrant is for exigent circumstances or if the police see a crime happening in plain view [pot plants through a window]. Also, I can't find anything on people getting busted for growing a few pot plants (under USPA), the only one I found was a $3.5 million pot operation..

Take deep breath my friend....your blood pressure is rising to dangerous
high levels. I don't want you to get a heart-attack or a stroke. Say out
loud, I'm on GFY, I'm on GFY, I'm on GFY.......god it's so much fun pushing
a button and see all of you get your panties in a bunch......it's too easy.

Kiss and make Up?

What makes you think you even elicit more energy from me than my fingers typing on the keyboard?

As for blood pressure, I've seen your picture, you aren't one to talk about that.

I'd kiss you, but the Fred Durst look doesn't turn me on.

Servergenious does have a point, even if masked in a flame-bait post

The US has had it's "freedoms" slipping since the first day the country came to be. To me, freedom means I can do whatever the fucking hell I want, so long as it does not impinge on someone elses rights or freedoms.

Freedom additionally means to me, for the government to keep the fuck out of EVERYTHING but the most absolute dire and needed services. For me, this means national defense, and perhaps some basic infrastructure. Yep, that does NOT include social safety nets, medical care, education, or any other of the millions of stupid wasteful things the federal government spends money on. This would in turn mean insanely low (federal!) taxes compared to today. I also agree that many of the services the government currently performs DO have merit - but these simply in my opinion are not upheld by the constitution, or intended by the founding fathers. States and local governments should be the ones with all the extras - this gives people a fucking choice.

If you look at history, the tax situation more or less was pretty close to how I describe it when the country started out. Over the many years, little things got added here and there - with promises to repeal them when whatever urgent emergency was over - which of course simply became permanent and expected.

If you look at just day to day freedoms... The Patriot act is the worst thing to happen to this country, EVER, in my opinion. It completely bypasses the constitution (warrentless searches?!? holding people indefinitely without charging them legitimately?! etc.) and already (not even 10 years into it!) has been abused against normal, every day, US citizens. Hell, even if it's powers were abused against a green card holder who truly was a terrorist living here - it goes too far.

Hell, just look at the stupid culture in this country. I can't smoke in my own privately owned establishment in many places now? What the hell?! I fucking hate smoking, it physically makes me ill if I'm around it for more than a few hours - but I also respected those folks rights to do whatever the fuck they want. Same goes for so, so, many other things.

If I ran the country, 90% of the laws would be thrown out. Start with basic shit, and use common sense from there. Too many laws are designed around "thought crime" type issues, or made simply for someones personal comfort.

Now... that all said.

I love this country, and feel it has the most potential overall. There ARE countries that are on par in-total with our 'freedoms' and economic options. There are countries that make us look like we're in the dark ages on CERTAIN freedoms and policies. However, overall I still feel the US has the most going for it. There have been dark times in this countries history, and we've somehow clawed our way back. Granted, now it's easy to get depressed and say 'no one in this country gives a fuck any more' - but our great grandfathers, and their fathers before them were saying the same shit. I do still have a bit of hope left in my fellow citizens, and hopefully when the shit truly hits the fan people realize it.

I love other countries too, and could see myself living in them. However, no other country was FOUNDED upon the principles I hold dear. Strong arguments can be made that we have drifted from those principles, but the underlying pinnings are still there and in-force, it just will take people waking up to realize how far from the mark we're getting.

you my sir are a funny guy.

I'm too fat you're right about that....my blood pressure though isn't a problem
I'm quite fit for my size lol. Must be because we have the freedom to legally
smoke pot.....which is exactly what I'm gonna do now.......as they say.
A joint a day keeps the doctor away.

You have gone up a few notches in my book with your humour.

that is the dumbest comment.
You have it pretty good compared to a lot of other countries in the world.

No country makes the US look like "Dark Ages". The biggest problem with the US law system are the drug laws. Drug laws are the epitome of unfreeness, it is taking away the freedom of consciousness, other than that, most of the laws are there to PROTECT your freedom.

Example being smoking laws, I am against smoking prohibition in private establishments (bars, etc), but second hand smoke is actually dangerous. Second hand smoke kills more people than cocaine and heroin combined, so maybe the law isn't that bad of an idea.

Overall, I think people should be able to do anything in their own home, because then they only effect themselves. But once you start infringing on other people's freedom, that is where the law steps in to protect everyone against you.

I don't see why people paint the US to be this spyglass state, it isn't... seriously.

Cool as I'm really just here for entertainment mostly.....about twice per year
I stir up some noise but no more than noise....I'm quite harmless and loving
towards most people EVEN to Americans

Whooooo I like Denmark's we are in the top where it matters:
1st.
Pork consumption per capita

3rd.
Coffee consumption

5th.
Beer consumption
Wine consumption


http://www.nationmaster.com/country/da/Top-Rankings

OMG hahahaha

Norway :

Assaults: 14,727
Car thefts: 23,339
Drug offences: 987.1 per 100,000 people
Murders: 49
Murders (per capita): 0.0106684 per 1,000 people
Prisoners: 2,914 prisoners
Rapes: 555
Rapes (per capita): 0.120836 per 1,000 people
Total crimes: 330,071
Total crimes (per capita): 71.8639 per 1,000 people

Terrorism statistics:

Collective Political Violence in the 1990s with Excessive Targeting of Civilians: 0
Collective Political Violence in the 1990s without Excessive Targeting of Civilians: 0
Convention on civil aviation safety: 1-Aug-73
Convention on crimes against protected persons: 28 April 1980(R)
Convention on hostages: 2 July 1981(R)
Convention on protection of nuclear material: 15 August 1985(R)
Convention on safety of maritime navigation: 18 April 1991(R)
Convention on seizure of aircraft: 23-Aug-71
Global Terrorism Indicator: 0
Terrorist Acts > 1968-2006 > Deaths to incidences ratio: 0.1 Deaths per act

Economy statistics:

Economic freedom: 2.7
GDP > Nominal: $250,168,000,000.00
GDP > Nominal (per capita): $54,467.23 per capita
GDP > PPP: $175,435,000,000.00
GDP per capita in 1950: $4,969.00
Gross National Income: $161,000,000,000.00

Shall i continue ? lol damn you are a moron, have you ever been in another state ?

You do know, they ppl who are 'arrested' for that, and they want to be relased, because there is no proof, they have to SIGN a paper first to admit they were guilty, and will NOT sue the USA....Otherwise, they won't be released...Talking about creating HATE

You're going to tell me because the US govt rips like 500 terrorists out of Afghanistan and imprisons them, this somehow has an effect on my Constitutional rights?

Sure, some mistakes are made, even without the US PATRIOT ACT (such as people locked up 20+ years for no reason, and put to death for no reason), but that is just how an imperfect system works.

I'm all for giving those people their due process so they could get locked up, but I'd be willing to bet that 99.9% of the people in there are violent criminals. The US Govt just doesn't go around ripping people off of the streets and lock them up for no reason. You may think it does.. to fuel your hate or something, but, it doesn't.

Yes, that camp is borderline illegal and yes the people should be put to trial, but to look at it from another perspective - It is only 500 people, who are likely people who want to do acts such as 9/11, so maybe they should be evaluated? You don't end up there by walking down the street in New York City, you end up there because you are either associated with terrorists, or are a terrorist.

If you feel safe in a place where you can be picked up and taken away without any trial or process, then the illusion in your head is big. If the reason you feel safe is cause you think it won't happen to you and all the people it happens to deserve it, you don't deserve to be free. If you think the government/police is always right then you don't need those courts anymore and you can just bow to the dictator. It's your duty to protect the freedoms of your country. Those guns you all have in your houses should have been long used to take your corrupt government out of service now that you still can. But they just keep playing into people's fear so they can keep them submissive. A possible terrorist on every corner of the street! Let us strip your freedoms so you can feel safe! This is exactly what your founding fathers warned you about.

And if you think the USA is the best place to live in?
You have more rapes than in africa? And those guys still have the excuse of living in the poorest, shittiest country in the world!

Crime Statistics > Rapes by country
#1 United States: 89,110
#2 South Africa: 53,008

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...pes-per-capita

I'm not a nationalist nutcase, I'm just objective and rational. I can write a book on the problems within the United States. But, when you start saying people are getting snatched off of the streets in the US, and homes invaded without warrants, what can I do besides attempt to inform of you the facts?

If you can find any evidence of American citizens getting snatched off of the streets and taken to secret prisons, show me. Yes, people do get arrested for crimes they didn't commit (happened wayyyy before USPA, it's called a mistake), but I'm not talking about that; I want to see evidence of US Government agents (police, fbi, etc) snatching people off of the streets and locking them up without trial.

You just seem to think that people "disappear" in the US for absolutely no reason, other than to violate peoples rights. Why? I don't know... there isn't even any proof of it, yet you somehow believe it happens..

Just wanted to let you all know I think a thread I started never got this many replies......and there's not even "See Sig" replies in here yet......

I'll sleep with a big smile on my face......2 pages...I'm GFY made now!

Well the problem is that they have the right to do it in secret. And with your tight media control (yes I say tight cause I have all the american news channels here, and I can compare with others, and its totally controlled - especially fox news) it's probably not going to get public. However I can show you a case where they came all the way to italy to do it ;)

'An Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 CIA agents for allegedly helping deport an imam to Egypt as part of U.S. anti-terrorism efforts, an Italian official familiar with the investigation said Friday.

The agents are suspected in the seizure of an Egyptian-born imam identified as Abu Omar on the streets of Milan in February 2003, according to the official, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information. ...

Prosecutors believe the agents seized Omar as part of the CIA's "extraordinary rendition" program, in which terror suspects are transferred to third countries without court approval, according to reports Friday in newspapers Corriere della Sera and Il Giorno.'

Let me ask you something else? Do you think it's ok that they are tapping every phone in the united states right now? Cause it is the case. And if you are a little bit smart you could figure out that the terrorists know this also and they're not going to say anything over a public line anymore, unless it's encrypted I guess. So the only people that are affected are non-terrorists. That should make you wonder.

Of course mistakes are made...Here they are made too...But not without a fair trial. And when they arrest you for no reason, you can fight back...With the stupid USA rules for so called suspects or terrorism, that is NOT possible...You are ready to bet 99,9% are terrorists in that camp? Funny thing is, just one guy so far admitted(and he did it under pressure, so he could be released)

Neh, not my idea of a free country

Ofcourse!

1. You let your govermant do all kind of surveillance on you, internet, phone etc etc.

2. Your democracy is built with coperations and lobbygroups such as AIPAC "donate" money to senators to run for president and once they come into power theese coperations or lobbygroups run the politics for the president

3. You dont have freedom of speech, are you allowed to say whatever you want about the president? Are you allowed to say whatever you want about Osama Bin Ladin or stuff like this?

There are more ofcourse.
I really think that the old Iraq worked better then the US.
Atleast they didnt build up a LALA-world about their situation.

Know I know you are just teasing again SG - it works every time

Hell knows why, but excepting the actual mentally ill on GFY (of which there are a few) - there is some concept that the world is against em somehow - more "communists under the bed" scenarios. Keep noticing this need to defend something... and that gets blown to the ludicrous level

Just seen a doc on AIPAC......pretty scare shit that was lol......couldn't believe what I saw and heard by goverment officials at their meetings and in
directed video messages.....

Take away my guns... Go ahead! I can still hit people on the head with rocks and stab them with sharp sticks...

that't the spirit.....

Holy shit

When you have finished laughing CS - you want some help getting off the floor??

Sorry still have not stopped laughing