CCBill Ratios: WTF?

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  • TheDoc
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Jul 2001
    • 13827
    #101
    Originally posted by MisterPeabody
    Well-l-l BV I think it's a wee more complicated than that.

    1. If i get a "pre-auth" decline from CCBill that means (I believe) that CCBill itself rejected the potential member - based on fraud detection, scrub, whatever reason - and sends ME a decline. But that 'decline' did not cascade over to Epoch otherwise I would see the corresponding form hit on the Epoch side, right? But I don't under this scenario.

    Now if the BANK rejects the surfer THEN it cascades over to Epoch (again, I believe). This means CCBill put the attempted transaction through to one of (or all of) their merchant banks and the bank rejected the sale. So then it goes to Epoch and Epoch gives the sale a shot with one of their merchant banks (which may or may not reject the sale).

    So why doesn't CCBill cascade the "pre-auth" decline as well? If they don't want the sale and reject it out of hand because of whatever internal reason, why not let Epoch give it a shot?

    2. Who is a potential (rejected) customer going to email? They're going to email CCBill first and go 'WTF?' Now you know many, many porn surfers are impulse buyers, so if they get rejected they go "FUCK!" and beat off to a tube in frustration.

    Again, most people won't contact a site - ANY site - and go "WTF I can't join your site/buy from you". IMHO most people will assume it's THEM - their credit, their bank, their checking account. Then maybe they try again in a few days or a week or two and by then CCBill has taken its' foot off the brakes and everything goes through. "Ah see? It WAS me (my card, bank, etc)!" So no emails to the site.

    PS: And I bet if a surfer checks his card after he's been denied, finds there's enough on it to join, calls CCBill and says this, CCBill will let that person through. What'cha wanna bet?
    Agreed.... Recurring customers that cards get declined don't email in asking what's up, they know what's up. Just like the person that didn't really have the money in the first place.

    If the pre-auth is based on money (from what I know), no reason to send them to anyone, unless it's based on the scrub factors, like address/zip/card issue match being off. I think the pre-auth is to see if the account has the funds though...
    ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
    It's all disambiguation

      Comment

      • The Porn Nerd
        Living The Dream
        • Jun 2009
        • 19780
        #102
        Originally posted by TheDoc
        Agreed.... Recurring customers that cards get declined don't email in asking what's up, they know what's up. Just like the person that didn't really have the money in the first place.

        If the pre-auth is based on money (from what I know), no reason to send them to anyone, unless it's based on the scrub factors, like address/zip/card issue match being off. I think the pre-auth is to see if the account has the funds though...
        I have to look into the "pre-auth" decline issue a bit more, honestly. All I know is when I get one of those emails from CCBill, and then I check the Epoch stats, I do not usually see a form hit, which indicates to me the attempted sale has cascaded.

        As for forms: I went back-and-forth with CCBill to get a custom form created for months. We finally settled on one that I think is awesome, and has increased sales overall by upwards of 30%. I tried using the "standard" form you described, as close as I could, but sales were not as good as the forms I have now. But basically yes, how a form looks/feels is really crucial.

        And i suggest that anyone using CCBill look into how their forms are converting for them, A/B test them as best you can, and try and streamline/simplify the forms as much as possible. I can attest that CCBill is really helpful when it comes to forms and designs and will totally work with you to improve things.
        Last edited by The Porn Nerd; 07-25-2010, 12:52 PM.
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          • BV
            wtf
            • Sep 2001
            • 10914
            #103
            Customers that want to join your site and can't will contact YOU. (the site owner)
            Not all, but some will. I know for a fact because I get them every so often.

            Most are either "i don't have a credit card" or "i don't want to use my credit card" or something of that nature. Hell some even email asking what the charges will show up as on their statement.

            So the fact that they wont email you is NOT TRUE.

            If the problem is as prevalent as some of you suggest, for as long of time period that has been suggested, there would be a plethora of these emails surfaced by now.

              Comment

              • BV
                wtf
                • Sep 2001
                • 10914
                #104
                Mr. Peabody,

                Here is a little tip if you want to make better sense of your stats.

                I assume that you pay close attention to your join form loads.

                I'll also assume that you have an unusually high amount of join form loads to actual joins.

                This is because your prices are not disclosed and your surfers have to load your join form in order to see the price.

                My advice to you is to disclose your price beforehand and then analyze your stats again after a few weeks.

                This will give you a little bit better of an idea on what's going on because then only people that are truly interested in joining will be loading the join page.

                  Comment

                  • The Porn Nerd
                    Living The Dream
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 19780
                    #105
                    Originally posted by BV
                    Customers that want to join your site and can't will contact YOU. (the site owner)
                    Not all, but some will. I know for a fact because I get them every so often.

                    Most are either "i don't have a credit card" or "i don't want to use my credit card" or something of that nature. Hell some even email asking what the charges will show up as on their statement.

                    So the fact that they wont email you is NOT TRUE.

                    If the problem is as prevalent as some of you suggest, for as long of time period that has been suggested, there would be a plethora of these emails surfaced by now.
                    I think my explanation of people's buying patterns and reactions to declines is more accurate. yes, I do get emails from people asking if they can Join by PayPal, etc. But if a guy tried to Join MILF Mia, say, he wouldn't be able to email the site. Her personal addy is in the Member's Area. It's one of the perks/enticements for Joining.

                    So a surfer MAY, once denied, go back to MILF Mia, find no email link, then go to Mister Peabody World and find the contact email - to ME, not Mia - and write me. But that's a REAL fucking motivated buyer, now isn't it? The overwhelming majority are going to assume the denial was because of THEM, not the site, or contact the biller. IMHO, of course.

                    But to say "If this were the case there'd be thousands of emails" is just plain wrong, sorry. CCBill and other billers are smart at this "game" and are not going to do anything that would send up "red flags". Only the interested and canny observer can detect these patterns, if at all. So again, someone gets declined, tries again a few days later, get approved. Where's the complaint email? There is none. It's in this way, I suspect, that billers "hide" such things as scrubs, declines, throughputs, etc etc. In fact, I would say the billers COUNT ON the kind of reaction/explanation BV provides, as further cover for these type of (understanble) "adjustments".

                    The problem, as has been stated over and over, is that we, the business owners, are left with this guessing game/Sherlock Holmes nonsense.

                    Originally posted by BV
                    Mr. Peabody,

                    Here is a little tip if you want to make better sense of your stats.

                    I assume that you pay close attention to your join form loads.

                    I'll also assume that you have an unusually high amount of join form loads to actual joins.

                    This is because your prices are not disclosed and your surfers have to load your join form in order to see the price.

                    My advice to you is to disclose your price beforehand and then analyze your stats again after a few weeks.

                    This will give you a little bit better of an idea on what's going on because then only people that are truly interested in joining will be loading the join page.
                    I already A/B tested showing the price vs. NOT showing the price, and have taken into consideration the fact that form hits will be higher when price is not disclosed. For me, for my sites, not displaying the price showed 80% more Joins this way. The philosophy, as you well know, is to get the guy to the join form at all costs.
                    Last edited by The Porn Nerd; 07-25-2010, 02:35 PM.
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                      Comment

                      • BV
                        wtf
                        • Sep 2001
                        • 10914
                        #106
                        Maybe you would get more emails if your email support link didn't 404
                        http://www.misterpeabodyworld.com/support.htm

                        Technically you are not in compliance by not having an email address on your join pages.

                        Also, your affiliates might see a better ROI if you didn't have a shitload of traffic leaks on your tour. (i count 8 at the bottom of the 1st page of your tour) going thru an affiliate link none the less.

                        You say you got 80% more joins by not disclosing the price?

                        hahahaha
                        lol

                        Dude, this aint my first rodeo!

                        carry on

                        I'm going to bow out of this thread now.

                        Cheers,
                        BV

                        PS: You talk a good game at first, but you have a long way to go.
                        Last edited by BV; 07-25-2010, 03:14 PM.

                          Comment

                          • The Porn Nerd
                            Living The Dream
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 19780
                            #107
                            Originally posted by BV
                            Maybe you would get more emails if your email support link didn't 404
                            http://www.misterpeabodyworld.com/support.htm

                            Technically you are not in compliance by not having an email address on your join pages.

                            Also, your affiliates might see a better ROI if you didn't have a shitload of traffic leaks on your tour. (i count 8 at the bottom of the 1st page of your tour) going thru an affiliate link none the less.

                            You say you got 80% more joins by not disclosing the price?

                            hahahaha
                            lol

                            Dude, this aint my first rodeo!

                            carry on

                            I'm going to bow out of this thread now.

                            Cheers,
                            BV

                            PS: You talk a good game at first, but you have a long way to go.
                            Well BV, if you're gonna turn like that on me then you better back up what you're saying right here and now otherwise I lose respect for you.

                            1. Where did you see that link? So I can FIX IT.
                            2. "Not being in compliance by not having an email link on my Join page." Say WHAT? Neither CCBill nor Epoch, both of whom go over every site I submit, has EVER required that. I call bullshit on that one. If I was "not in complaince" how could I get approved?
                            3. I made pains to point out that by not displaying pricing it helped MY sites by 80%. There was a 5-1 differance between joins when I displayed the pricing vs. when i did not. I do not care if you believe this or not.
                            4. "Traffic leaks" and ROI? You know nothing about my affiliates 'ROI'. Traffic leaks where? To other sites that require a recip link to post pics/videos there? Technically true, but you know damn well that's the price you pay to get traffic from some websites. Finally, those "traffic leaks" are on the Splash page, and most of my (smart) affiliates send their traffic to the 2nd (main) tour page, by-passing said "leaks".

                            This ain't MY first yada yada either bud. Now I did not ask for advice on how to improve overall sales. This thread is about CCBILL and other billers. If you would like, I can certainly give YOU a detailed overview of your ugly-ass looking piece of shit sites, too, and how to "improve" them. Take shots out of nowhere and you get 'em back.
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                              Comment

                              • BV
                                wtf
                                • Sep 2001
                                • 10914
                                #108
                                Originally posted by MisterPeabody
                                Well BV, if you're gonna turn like that on me then you better back up what you're saying right here and now otherwise I lose respect for you.

                                1. Where did you see that link? So I can FIX IT.
                                2. "Not being in compliance by not having an email link on my Join page." Say WHAT? Neither CCBill nor Epoch, both of whom go over every site I submit, has EVER required that. I call bullshit on that one. If I was "not in complaince" how could I get approved?
                                3. I made pains to point out that by not displaying pricing it helped MY sites by 80%. There was a 5-1 differance between joins when I displayed the pricing vs. when i did not. I do not care if you believe this or not.
                                4. "Traffic leaks" and ROI? You know nothing about my affiliates 'ROI'. Traffic leaks where? To other sites that require a recip link to post pics/videos there? Technically true, but you know damn well that's the price you pay to get traffic from some websites. Finally, those "traffic leaks" are on the Splash page, and most of my (smart) affiliates send their traffic to the 2nd (main) tour page, by-passing said "leaks".

                                This ain't MY first yada yada either bud. Now I did not ask for advice on how to improve overall sales. This thread is about CCBILL and other billers. If you would like, I can certainly give YOU a detailed overview of your ugly-ass looking piece of shit sites, too, and how to "improve" them. Take shots out of nowhere and you get 'em back.
                                No harm intended.

                                I was just pointing out a few observations trying to help.

                                I was following links from the review sites Porn Inspector and Rabbits Reviews and saw the leaks. But they aren't your smart affiliates so my bad.

                                An easy fix (like most of us do) is to set up a leak free tour page for your default link. And keep your root for your own typeins and put your leaks there. It's not good to trade off affiliates traffic.

                                You billing support link on sexy brandon and the Milf site were 2 that I noticed, looks like they are *.htm & should be *.html

                                But don't mind what I say, I don't know anything.

                                PS: I still don't believe you can have an 80% increase in sales by not disclosing the price before the join page.
                                Last edited by BV; 07-25-2010, 04:27 PM.

                                  Comment

                                  • The Porn Nerd
                                    Living The Dream
                                    • Jun 2009
                                    • 19780
                                    #109
                                    Actualy, I got upset (apologies, and thank you for explaining) precisely because you DO know so much. I've learned, thru trial and error and FAILING over and over what works - for ME. For my world, as it were. LOL I've actually tried the things you suggested over the years and guess I got upset that you would think me so foolish as to NOT try those suggestions.

                                    "Hey! Why don't I try putting the prices on the join page! DUH!" :D

                                    Review sites are, well, fuck 'em. Sorry reviewers who give my best sites scores of under 70, your recip links go where few will see them, since you send shitty traffic and don't make me any sales anyway. Oh, don't get me started on review sites.....

                                    The main issue here, tho, remains this: Even WITH "leaks" (and I do offer 'leak-free tours' without those recip links to any aff who wants them) and this shitty design element or that odd pricing option, the fact remains that a mysterious "faucet" seems to turn on-and-off without rhyme or reason. And the only "explanation" is the biller. The biller is the weak link in the chain, which is fine if they would only:

                                    A. Let me know some things
                                    B. Leave ME alone and fuck with all of you fuckers instead
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                                      • mmcfadden
                                        So Fucking Banned
                                        • Oct 2008
                                        • 5099
                                        #110
                                        I've noticed a decrease in sales thru ccbill when showing pricing. But, there was likely a reason for that, ie programming may have passed info and caused slow page loading.

                                        That being said, there are always reasons for lower sales and includes everything up to surfer completing payment.

                                        I do think ur ccbill custom form is good but needs work. Your price should be up top, only price. Then put recurring in text below form but not immediately above submit.

                                        U will see a 50 percent increase in sales if u can get that approved. Ask lloyd though from ccbill.

                                          Comment

                                          • The Porn Nerd
                                            Living The Dream
                                            • Jun 2009
                                            • 19780
                                            #111
                                            Originally posted by mmcfadden
                                            I've noticed a decrease in sales thru ccbill when showing pricing. But, there was likely a reason for that, ie programming may have passed info and caused slow page loading.

                                            That being said, there are always reasons for lower sales and includes everything up to surfer completing payment.

                                            I do think ur ccbill custom form is good but needs work. Your price should be up top, only price. Then put recurring in text below form but not immediately above submit.

                                            U will see a 50 percent increase in sales if u can get that approved. Ask lloyd though from ccbill.
                                            That's some great advice there! Thanks so much! I will look into that today. Perhaps Epoch can do the same with their forms.

                                            I believe I've seen a form or two with CCBill where the recurring pricing IS on the bottom so perhaps they can do this.
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                                              • SwirlsGirl
                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                • Feb 2006
                                                • 2067
                                                #112
                                                another observation noted repeatedly is when you express your feelings about ccbill sales on gfy, sales simultaneously evaporate into nothing for a few days.

                                                can almost hear them saying..."want to run your mouth about us.... try no sales for a few days...heheheh..that will teach ya"

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Varius
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Jun 2004
                                                    • 6890
                                                    #113
                                                    Originally posted by MisterPeabody
                                                    No denials, therefore no cascade to Epoch. ALSO highly strange!
                                                    If you are not getting denials, that would signal you are not getting attempts. How could that be CCBill's fault?

                                                    Unless there was a bug in the join page (happens sometimes if you setup a new custom one that wasn't properly tested) - that's all on you.

                                                    I agree with others, your sample size here was incredibly small, but the thing you need to be checking from the sounds of it, are your form hits and form submission %s.

                                                    CCBill cannot try to charge a card that hasn't been submitted...
                                                    Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmail

                                                      Comment

                                                      • The Porn Nerd
                                                        Living The Dream
                                                        • Jun 2009
                                                        • 19780
                                                        #114
                                                        Originally posted by Varius
                                                        If you are not getting denials, that would signal you are not getting attempts. How could that be CCBill's fault?

                                                        Unless there was a bug in the join page (happens sometimes if you setup a new custom one that wasn't properly tested) - that's all on you.

                                                        I agree with others, your sample size here was incredibly small, but the thing you need to be checking from the sounds of it, are your form hits and form submission %s.

                                                        CCBill cannot try to charge a card that hasn't been submitted...

                                                        What I'm saying is, CCBill may have their own internal calculations as to why they don't submit a Join form to a BANK. If this is the case then the sale does not cascade. IF it goes to the BANK, then gets rejected, THEN it cascades. So CCBill (or any biller) can block Join attempts BEFORE they ever get to the BANK. It does not mean CCBill is trying to CHARGE a card before it goes to a BANK - perhaps, because of fraud detection, or past abuses, or IP issues, or whatever, CCBill blocks them.

                                                        Believe me, the custom Join forms have been tested repeatedly.

                                                        Form submission percentages, however, and load times, CAN make a big differance and we're looking into those issues more closely. But overall, I would say the odd patterns I see are not related to form load times.

                                                        As for sample size: This thread is a result of SIX MONTHS, 500,000+ uniques, and hundreds of thousands in revenue. I didn't go off half-cocked after a week or two, or even after ten thousand visitors. LOL I have rock-solid data that can stand up to any scrutiny. Numbers don't lie.
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                                                          • mountainmiester
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                            • 509
                                                            #115
                                                            I say this because you are a friend and I know the workings of CCBill rather well. Any claims that CCBill turns up or down their fraud scrub or "fucks with" your revenues in any way is utterly preposterous. Since they only make money from your completed transaction and in fact loose money on each denial (its still cost them for gateway cost, etc) then is makes no scene for them to refuse qualified transactions.

                                                            Did you look at your decline rate or track your bounce rate from your tour/join pages?

                                                            If you want some assistance on how to better analyze this, give me a call or email and I'd love to assist but I think there is a probability that a bit more is going on here than just CCBill.

                                                            If you still think there are technical issues then Paul K will find it. He knows that system like the back of his hand and is very very capable.

                                                            Your load time assessment, may have more merit than you think. As we have discussed in the past, load times over 2 seconds is unacceptable by most users.

                                                            Last edited by mountainmiester; 07-26-2010, 09:04 AM.
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                                                              • The Porn Nerd
                                                                Living The Dream
                                                                • Jun 2009
                                                                • 19780
                                                                #116
                                                                Originally posted by mountainmiester
                                                                I say this because you are a friend and I know the workings of CCBill rather well. Any claims that CCBill turns up or down their fraud scrub or "fucks with" your revenues in any way is utterly preposterous. Since they only make money from your completed transaction and in fact loose money on each denial (its still cost them for gateway cost, etc) then is makes no scene for them to refuse qualified transactions.

                                                                Did you look at your decline rate or track your bounce rate from your tour/join pages?

                                                                If you want some assistance on how to better analyze this, give me a call or email and I'd love to assist but I think there is probable chance a bit more going on than just CCBill.

                                                                If you still think there are technical issues then Paul K will find it. He knows that system like the back of his hand and is very very capable.

                                                                Thank you fine sir! I may take you up on that. I do apologize if I come across like "THEY'RE FUCKING ME!!!" LOL But it's rather obvious that I am not the only one experiencing these perplexing issues. Others have noticed similar patterns on the same exact days as I have, and have recounted their own puzzling patterns. So i don't think it's ME, specifically, but rather a company-wide policy that (eventually) affects everyone.

                                                                Still, I want to be totally clear here:

                                                                CCBill is a fine comapny. They have been COMPLETELY helpful when these issues arise. I am grateful for their continued attempts to maximize my earnings (and everyone's).

                                                                What I'm seeking is an explanation to this:

                                                                No sales for X # of hours; switch the cascade (absolutely no other variables change) and WHAM! Sales.

                                                                What I seek is an explanation I can live with, to better understand these patterns so that I, the business owner, can make better decisions and take actions based on accurate information. I don't think that makes me nuts, does it? (Should I have asked that? LOL)
                                                                Last edited by The Porn Nerd; 07-26-2010, 09:09 AM.
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                                                                  • mountainmiester
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                                    • 509
                                                                    #117
                                                                    Last edited by mountainmiester; 07-26-2010, 09:13 AM.
                                                                    Randall Crockett
                                                                    LIMELIGHT NETWORKS
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                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Varius
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jun 2004
                                                                        • 6890
                                                                        #118
                                                                        Originally posted by MisterPeabody
                                                                        What I'm saying is, CCBill may have their own internal calculations as to why they don't submit a Join form to a BANK. If this is the case then the sale does not cascade. IF it goes to the BANK, then gets rejected, THEN it cascades. So CCBill (or any biller) can block Join attempts BEFORE they ever get to the BANK. It does not mean CCBill is trying to CHARGE a card before it goes to a BANK - perhaps, because of fraud detection, or past abuses, or IP issues, or whatever, CCBill blocks them.

                                                                        Believe me, the custom Join forms have been tested repeatedly.

                                                                        Form submission percentages, however, and load times, CAN make a big differance and we're looking into those issues more closely. But overall, I would say the odd patterns I see are not related to form load times.

                                                                        As for sample size: This thread is a result of SIX MONTHS, 500,000+ uniques, and hundreds of thousands in revenue. I didn't go off half-cocked after a week or two, or even after ten thousand visitors. LOL I have rock-solid data that can stand up to any scrutiny. Numbers don't lie.
                                                                        Ah, thanks for explaining it further. From your original comment I took it you were getting no denials, not just denials from the bank. That's why I figured you were getting no attempts.

                                                                        CCBill does have a HUGE negative database, there is no question; but that's also a major reason why they are still in business, compared to the massive number of companies who have come and gone.

                                                                        What I would do in your case is analyze your form hits / form submissions with both processors and if the approval rate is that far off, on similar behaviour (hits/submissions), present that to CCBill and try to work out what adjustments can be made to your fraud profile.
                                                                        Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmail

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • BV
                                                                            wtf
                                                                            • Sep 2001
                                                                            • 10914
                                                                            #119
                                                                            Originally posted by Varius
                                                                            Ah, thanks for explaining it further. From your original comment I took it you were getting no denials, not just denials from the bank. That's why I figured you were getting no attempts.

                                                                            CCBill does have a HUGE negative database, there is no question; but that's also a major reason why they are still in business, compared to the massive number of companies who have come and gone.

                                                                            What I would do in your case is analyze your form hits / form submissions with both processors and if the approval rate is that far off, on similar behaviour (hits/submissions), present that to CCBill and try to work out what adjustments can be made to your fraud profile.
                                                                            That's the advice I was trying to give, but his form hits are going to be way high because there are no prices disclosed on his site until they load the form.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                Living The Dream
                                                                                • Jun 2009
                                                                                • 19780
                                                                                #120
                                                                                Originally posted by Varius
                                                                                Ah, thanks for explaining it further. From your original comment I took it you were getting no denials, not just denials from the bank. That's why I figured you were getting no attempts.

                                                                                CCBill does have a HUGE negative database, there is no question; but that's also a major reason why they are still in business, compared to the massive number of companies who have come and gone.

                                                                                What I would do in your case is analyze your form hits / form submissions with both processors and if the approval rate is that far off, on similar behaviour (hits/submissions), present that to CCBill and try to work out what adjustments can be made to your fraud profile.
                                                                                EXCELLENT advice!! Thank you so much for that.

                                                                                This thread has gotten long so it's easy to assume this or that. People are searching for reasons, not just for my situation but for their own, too. So, we search and we question and we try to think maybe it's this or that. ALL very helpful and useful!

                                                                                Originally posted by BV
                                                                                That's the advice I was trying to give, but his form hits are going to be way high because there are no prices disclosed on his site until they load the form.
                                                                                Yeah, sorry I was being so thick-headed yesterday BV!
                                                                                I am willing to A/B test the pricing displays again. I did it a while back. The great WOJ has just finished writing me up a brand-new A/B script that's easier (for me) to use so I want to test displaying pricing options again.
                                                                                Last edited by The Porn Nerd; 07-26-2010, 09:48 AM.
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                                                                                  • Varius
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Jun 2004
                                                                                    • 6890
                                                                                    #121
                                                                                    Originally posted by BV
                                                                                    That's the advice I was trying to give, but his form hits are going to be way high because there are no prices disclosed on his site until they load the form.
                                                                                    True, but they should be as high then for Epoch - so for purposes of a fair comparison between the two, it doesn't matter if they are high, as long as they are consistent.
                                                                                    Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmail

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                                                                                      • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                        Living The Dream
                                                                                        • Jun 2009
                                                                                        • 19780
                                                                                        #122
                                                                                        Originally posted by Varius
                                                                                        True, but they should be as high then for Epoch - so for purposes of a fair comparison between the two, it doesn't matter if they are high, as long as they are consistent.
                                                                                        On this note, the interesting thing is that the form hits to Epoch ARE higher than the form hits to CCBill. Not by much, perhaps 10-15%. This could be a load issue with the CCBill servers, but from my observations the load times are within .5 seconds of each other.

                                                                                        Anyway, further testing is needed, that's obvious. The one thing I do have going for me in regards to testing is that i am fortunate enough (lucky enough?) to have 4-5 sites in my network that are incredibly consistent earners. Like clockwork. That helps a lot with testing. LOL
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                                                                                          • Argos88
                                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                                            • Sep 2009
                                                                                            • 1732
                                                                                            #123
                                                                                            Originally posted by Jakez

                                                                                            You're saying a whole lot all over threads on here just trying to stir shit up.

                                                                                            My sales don't suck, maybe YOUR adult sales do? I don't have a single sponsor above 1:1000 and the good ones are around 1:200-1:300. Buzz off.
                                                                                            Really? It looks like 99% of webmasters are wrong then? what do you say?

                                                                                            why don't check those threads where 99% of webmasters say that sales suck lately?

                                                                                            Why don't you compare adult webmaster forums with 3-4 years ago? Traffic decreased 300%.. and many of them closed...most webmasters gone broke and looking for jobs.. So, your sales are better than ever??

                                                                                            I always suspect when someone has a big ego and thinks he's right and 99% of other people are wrong. Keep making up your number, dude.

                                                                                            .

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • lagcam
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Jul 2007
                                                                                                • 2890
                                                                                                #124
                                                                                                Originally posted by BV
                                                                                                The smaller slice of time you analyze the more MEANINGLESS it all means.
                                                                                                We have a winner.
                                                                                                Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

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                                                                                                  • Shoplifter
                                                                                                    Richest man in Babylon
                                                                                                    • Jan 2002
                                                                                                    • 5849
                                                                                                    #125
                                                                                                    How's it going for you guys today?

                                                                                                    I think I am having one of those "statistical anomaly" days.
                                                                                                    I Like Blondes

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                                                                                                      • st0ned
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Mar 2007
                                                                                                        • 8437
                                                                                                        #126
                                                                                                        Since CCBill implemented that new WMS thing or whatever it was called my ratios and sales dropped drastically.
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                                                                                                          • VGeorgie
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Nov 2008
                                                                                                            • 359
                                                                                                            #127
                                                                                                            Originally posted by MisterPeabody
                                                                                                            On this note, the interesting thing is that the form hits to Epoch ARE higher than the form hits to CCBill. Not by much, perhaps 10-15%.
                                                                                                            CCBill's form hits aren't always (ever?) real time.

                                                                                                            If you do any A-B comparison, the only meaningful way is to write a server script that exactly divides the clicks to the signup form between the two, alternating one then the other. That's the only way you'll smooth out the variations in time, weekday, week of the month, payday, month, and all the other variables that can affect purchases.

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • HomerSimpson
                                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                • Sep 2005
                                                                                                                • 13826
                                                                                                                #128
                                                                                                                1:807 this month on CCBIll...
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                                                                                                                  • Fabien
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                    • 4789
                                                                                                                    #129
                                                                                                                    I don't want to sound rude or bash ccbill but what's the number of targeted hits sent ?
                                                                                                                    My point is, if you sent 807 hits this month and made a sale it ain't the same as sending thousands of hits of course
                                                                                                                    Last edited by Fabien; 07-28-2010, 05:06 PM.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                                                        Living The Dream
                                                                                                                        • Jun 2009
                                                                                                                        • 19780
                                                                                                                        #130
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Shoplifter
                                                                                                                        How's it going for you guys today?

                                                                                                                        I think I am having one of those "statistical anomaly" days.
                                                                                                                        The rollercoaster continues BUT, this being Wednesday, I don't freak out as much. Actually, Tuesdays are notoriously the worst sales day of the week (which is why many retail stores have sales on Tuesdays), and Wednesday is almost as bad. Percentage-wise I'm holding steady tho so this tells me it's a day of the week thing. Now, come Friday....LOL

                                                                                                                        Originally posted by VGeorgie
                                                                                                                        CCBill's form hits aren't always (ever?) real time.

                                                                                                                        If you do any A-B comparison, the only meaningful way is to write a server script that exactly divides the clicks to the signup form between the two, alternating one then the other. That's the only way you'll smooth out the variations in time, weekday, week of the month, payday, month, and all the other variables that can affect purchases.
                                                                                                                        You are absouletely correct in this observation. A/B testing is best done with a server-side script that does a simple 'split' test: one click goes to A, one click goes to B. This is the type of A/B testing I mean when I refer to my setup.
                                                                                                                        Last edited by The Porn Nerd; 07-28-2010, 07:15 PM.
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                                                                                                                          • mmcfadden
                                                                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                            • Oct 2008
                                                                                                                            • 5099
                                                                                                                            #131
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by MisterPeabody
                                                                                                                            The rollercoaster continues BUT, this being Wednesday, I don't freak out as much. Actually, Tuesdays are notoriously the worst sales day of the week (which is why many retail stores have sales on Tuesdays), and Wednesday is almost as bad. Percentage-wise I'm holding steady tho so this tells me it's a day of the week thing. Now, come Friday....LOL



                                                                                                                            You are absouletely correct in this observation. A/B testing is best done with a server-side script that does a simple 'split' test: one click goes to A, one click goes to B. This is the type of A/B testing I mean when I refer to my setup.
                                                                                                                            Since you are up... how was your convo with paul K on monday?

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • SwirlsGirl
                                                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                • Feb 2006
                                                                                                                                • 2067
                                                                                                                                #132
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Shoplifter
                                                                                                                                How's it going for you guys today?

                                                                                                                                I think I am having one of those "statistical anomaly" days.

                                                                                                                                I would have to concur, no "CCBILL" sales in over 2 days! That is without question an anomaly for me. That has never ever happened in 6 years!

                                                                                                                                It's like the past 2 days were masturbation conservation days.

                                                                                                                                Now it will be interesting to note if there are others experiencing this same anomaly yesterday and today, and then suddenly within the next 2 days the same webmasters have huge ccbill sales flurries.

                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                  • 2MuchMark
                                                                                                                                    Mark of 2Much.net
                                                                                                                                    • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                    • 50884
                                                                                                                                    #133
                                                                                                                                    Geeze people, stop GUESSING at this and GET SOME REAL FACTS BY ASK YOUR CUSTOMERS!

                                                                                                                                    Post your phone number on your website and invite customers to call you if there are any problems. You won't get crank calls. Instead, you'll get good calls from honest people who's cards are being declined. Get their names and email address and then call your processing company and ask them why this customer is being declined.

                                                                                                                                    We have done this for a while now and the reasons range from IP / Geo Mismatch, or entire domains blocked for fraud. If you know your customes, you may know that Mr. Smith is a travelling salesman, or that Mr. Jones is a repeat customer, and that neither of them should be declined for these reasons.

                                                                                                                                    Next, ask your processor to remove the blocks on these customers. Call your customer right back and invite him to try again, and voila! Not only have you gained a sale, but if you word it the right way, you (and your processor) were simply "looking out for your customer's best interest and protecting him from identity theft".

                                                                                                                                    We learned this years ago as a part of our own internal fraud scrubbing (see http://2much.net/fraud-detection.php) and it works very well. While it's against CCBill's TOS to DEMAND that customers call only you, I am sure they appreciate it if you go out of your way to assist with customer service and do some of the leg work for them. Get the info from your customers, square it away with CCBill (or whoever), and watch your declines go down.


                                                                                                                                    Last edited by 2MuchMark; 07-28-2010, 08:02 PM.

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • Rochard
                                                                                                                                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                        • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                        • 75733
                                                                                                                                        #134
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by BV
                                                                                                                                        also, what makes no sense, is why didn't epoch pic up the sales that ccbill (supposedly didnt) if they (epoch) was second in the cascade?

                                                                                                                                        fact is it has nothing to do with CCBill or Epoch, it's the fucking market is DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                        I'm 1/600 this month with ccbill. So it's not CCBill.
                                                                                                                                        Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                        Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                                                                            Living The Dream
                                                                                                                                            • Jun 2009
                                                                                                                                            • 19780
                                                                                                                                            #135
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by mmcfadden
                                                                                                                                            Since you are up... how was your convo with paul K on monday?
                                                                                                                                            Thanks for asking. Paul and I talked Monday and he's on the case, looking over some numbers with me. It's still kind of an anemic week but the percentages are holding steady even tho sales are down, like the % of form hits to approvals. Isn't August traditionally the slowest month? Or is that january, or February...


                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by MarkPrince
                                                                                                                                            Geeze people, stop GUESSING at this and GET SOME REAL FACTS BY ASK YOUR CUSTOMERS!

                                                                                                                                            Post your phone number on your website and invite customers to call you if there are any problems. You won't get crank calls. Instead, you'll get good calls from honest people who's cards are being declined. Get their names and email address and then call your processing company and ask them why this customer is being declined.

                                                                                                                                            We have done this for a while now and the reasons range from IP / Geo Mismatch, or entire domains blocked for fraud. If you know your customes, you may know that Mr. Smith is a travelling salesman, or that Mr. Jones is a repeat customer, and that neither of them should be declined for these reasons.

                                                                                                                                            Next, ask your processor to remove the blocks on these customers. Call your customer right back and invite him to try again, and voila! Not only have you gained a sale, but if you word it the right way, you (and your processor) were simply "looking out for your customer's best interest and protecting him from identity theft".

                                                                                                                                            We learned this years ago as a part of our own internal fraud scrubbing (see http://2much.net/fraud-detection.php) and it works very well. While it's against CCBill's TOS to DEMAND that customers call only you, I am sure they appreciate it if you go out of your way to assist with customer service and do some of the leg work for them. Get the info from your customers, square it away with CCBill (or whoever), and watch your declines go down.


                                                                                                                                            I love the idea of this on the one hand, but on the other I go "talk to PEOPLE? Ewwww!" I mean fuck, if I wanted to talk to fucking humans I wouldn't work on the Internet, I'd be a fucking waiter.
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                                                                                                                                              • 2MuchMark
                                                                                                                                                Mark of 2Much.net
                                                                                                                                                • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                • 50884
                                                                                                                                                #136
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by MisterPeabody
                                                                                                                                                I love the idea of this on the one hand, but on the other I go "talk to PEOPLE? Ewwww!" I mean fuck, if I wanted to talk to fucking humans I wouldn't work on the Internet, I'd be a fucking waiter.
                                                                                                                                                I know... I wasn't sure about the idea at first but we have our toll free number up everywhere. Customers really like to talk to a human and know that their concerns are being answered. Plus its a great chance to make another sale if you can show them any other sites you have.

                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                                                                                    Living The Dream
                                                                                                                                                    • Jun 2009
                                                                                                                                                    • 19780
                                                                                                                                                    #137
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by MarkPrince
                                                                                                                                                    I know... I wasn't sure about the idea at first but we have our toll free number up everywhere. Customers really like to talk to a human and know that their concerns are being answered. Plus its a great chance to make another sale if you can show them any other sites you have.
                                                                                                                                                    You're 100% right, of course, but you don't need me to say that. LOL It's a great idea. I'm a huge believer in customer service. People are so surprised when you answer an email in ten minutes.
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                                                                                                                                                      • Peace
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Sep 2004
                                                                                                                                                        • 5711
                                                                                                                                                        #138
                                                                                                                                                        I told you go 3D! That market is alive. So may be you start hitting me for FREE 3D FULL HD content NOW!!!
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                                                                                                                                                        Traffic/affiliates: PrimeAdult.net | ClassyContent relaunch
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                                                                                                                                                          • signupdamnit
                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2007
                                                                                                                                                            • 6697
                                                                                                                                                            #139
                                                                                                                                                            1:1398 raw for the month to date. Not bad but not great either. I was ~ 1:800 up until around the 15th went it nose dived a bit (as is usual for me). Still better than my numbers last year.

                                                                                                                                                            You don't like my posts? Put me on ignore or fuck right off. I'll say what I want.

                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                              • Argos88
                                                                                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                • Sep 2009
                                                                                                                                                                • 1732
                                                                                                                                                                #140
                                                                                                                                                                plain dead..

                                                                                                                                                                idiots like robby keep saying that his sales are the same as 1999 and that the biz is better than ever.

                                                                                                                                                                maybe he didn't notice the amount of sponsors closing on a daily basis, the slow forums and all the broken webmasters.

                                                                                                                                                                show some respect, robby idiot.. you are full of shit.. so better close your homo mouth, before someone shows up your real curriculum..

                                                                                                                                                                heh.

                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                  • Jakez
                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                    • Jan 2004
                                                                                                                                                                    • 5656
                                                                                                                                                                    #141
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Argos88
                                                                                                                                                                    plain dead..

                                                                                                                                                                    idiots like robby keep saying that his sales are the same as 1999 and that the biz is better than ever.

                                                                                                                                                                    maybe he didn't notice the amount of sponsors closing on a daily basis, the slow forums and all the broken webmasters.

                                                                                                                                                                    show some respect, robby idiot.. you are full of shit.. so better close your homo mouth, before someone shows up your real curriculum..

                                                                                                                                                                    heh.
                                                                                                                                                                    You come here claiming to have gotten out of the adult biz, saying mainstream is doing great, spread all your "adult is dead" bullshit everywhere because YOU can't sell anything yet you are still posting on an adult forum. Who is the idiot?
                                                                                                                                                                    [email protected] - jakezdumb - 573689400

                                                                                                                                                                    Killuminati

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                                                                                                                                                                      • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                                                                                                        Living The Dream
                                                                                                                                                                        • Jun 2009
                                                                                                                                                                        • 19780
                                                                                                                                                                        #142
                                                                                                                                                                        Okay, one of the WORST days this month. Lousy, lousy, lousy day for sales all around, network-wide. Traffic so-so but still, shouldn't be THIS bad.

                                                                                                                                                                        Going to bed now - to pray for higher ratios, to dream dreams of endless conversions...
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                                                                                                                                                                          • Dating Port
                                                                                                                                                                            Useless As Ever
                                                                                                                                                                            • Jan 2009
                                                                                                                                                                            • 731
                                                                                                                                                                            #143
                                                                                                                                                                            I want to thank you all who contributed to this thread. It showed me that I still have a lot to learn and a long way to go.

                                                                                                                                                                            As far as things being dead or dying, yes my traffic has gone down and yes so have my sales. But I've worked my traffic flows and channeled it a bit differently and sales are almost the same on my lower traffic as they where at higher flows. I sort of wish I was that creative back then.

                                                                                                                                                                            So we ahave to work a little harder now. The good thing is we still work for ourselves and not some idiotic 9-5 job somewhere for some asshole boss.

                                                                                                                                                                            Cheer up!
                                                                                                                                                                            Email: admin[at]datingport.co.uk - ICQ: 456416181
                                                                                                                                                                            It's amazing what you (L)earn when you put some effort into it!

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                                                                                                                                                                              • NetHorse
                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                • Dec 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                • 3526
                                                                                                                                                                                #144
                                                                                                                                                                                Maybe it's time CCBILL just revamps the ENTIRE system from the ground up. As an affiliate I stopped sending most my traffic to sites directly through CCBILL late 2008, out of nowhere my sales took a HUGE dump without any explanation.

                                                                                                                                                                                Also, one of my sponsors used cascade billing between CCBILL and EPOCH. A couple years ago they had CCBILL first in the cascade, even then 60% of the sales were EPOCH. They reversed it and now over 90% of the sales are Epoch!

                                                                                                                                                                                I don't suspect foul play in the least bit, but I do think there is an issue somewhere in the system. With the amount of people noticing these issues it's hard to deny it.
                                                                                                                                                                                ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
                                                                                                                                                                                ICQ # 427013273

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                                                                                                                                                                                  • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                                                                                                                    Living The Dream
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Jun 2009
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 19780
                                                                                                                                                                                    #145
                                                                                                                                                                                    UPDATE:

                                                                                                                                                                                    Yesterday and today have felt like slowly, slowly, slowly slipping off a cliff.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Therefore: bye-bye CCBill for the foreseeable future, hello Epoch.
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                                                                                                                                                                                      • Beerbar
                                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Oct 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 145
                                                                                                                                                                                        #146
                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by MisterPeabody
                                                                                                                                                                                        UPDATE:

                                                                                                                                                                                        Yesterday and today have felt like slowly, slowly, slowly slipping off a cliff.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Therefore: bye-bye CCBill for the foreseeable future, hello Epoch.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Same; last two day horrible.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Going Zambio/Verotel for awhile.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't see many of these threads about Epoch, is that because CCbill has way more clients then Epoch?

                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                          • Sausage
                                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 3012
                                                                                                                                                                                            #147
                                                                                                                                                                                            Last year : 1:941
                                                                                                                                                                                            Jan-April : 1:1423
                                                                                                                                                                                            May : 1:9121
                                                                                                                                                                                            June/July : 1:33,998

                                                                                                                                                                                            And thats not just a scrap of traffic, I send a good flow of traffic and conversions have been pretty stable until late.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I ****KNOW**** there is something wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                            IW
                                                                                                                                                                                            Skype : blance8888
                                                                                                                                                                                            Icq : 15567120

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                                                                                                                                                                                              • The Porn Nerd
                                                                                                                                                                                                Living The Dream
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Jun 2009
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 19780
                                                                                                                                                                                                #148
                                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Sausage
                                                                                                                                                                                                Last year : 1:941
                                                                                                                                                                                                Jan-April : 1:1423
                                                                                                                                                                                                May : 1:9121
                                                                                                                                                                                                June/July : 1:33,998

                                                                                                                                                                                                And thats not just a scrap of traffic, I send a good flow of traffic and conversions have been pretty stable until late.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I ****KNOW**** there is something wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Honestly, the maddening thing is you see these numbers, you work your ass off, increase traffic & productivity, and still they go down, down, down. And JUST when you think things may be leveling off/returning to "normal", here we go again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                GRRR!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  • DarkJedi
                                                                                                                                                                                                    No Refunds Issued.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 28301
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #149
                                                                                                                                                                                                    you sure whine a lot

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