I feel like speaking about the influx of recent program closures.

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  • amateurcanada
    Confirmed User
    • Jul 2001
    • 3766

    #1

    I feel like speaking about the influx of recent program closures.

    Yes, sales are down. Yes, some smaller processors seem to be paying just a little bit later then usual. Yes, recurring memberships are at a bigger decline. Yes, conversion ratios are unbelievable (and not in a good way).

    From what i've seen, many closures are because the pay per sale math is completely out of balance. You cannot, with any reliability (in this economy), calculate how many members WILL occur, WILL upsell, WILL take on further debt with affiliated sites. Our customers are smarter. Paying an affiliate double/triple/quadruple the cost of a membership is risky business. You can have a few months of bad math and be busted and broke. I will not insult anyones intelligence in regards to how well their program does compared to mine. Programs like 'abbywinters' take an EXCELLENT approach to promotion. I was even declined by their process, however it proves a good point. If your hiring a sales staff to promote your brand you don't want to allow EVERYONE to plug you and perhaps tarnish the brand your trying to maintain, grow and establish. Traffic in the masses does not guarantee success.

    Whats my point? Keeping legitimate sponsors in mind who roll with the punches, perhaps we should shift to a partner model - much like www.nichepartners.com has since day 1. If we make 30$ you get your share - you earned it - if your promoting to the right people, maintaining our brand, selling us in a way to promote retention, then we have a great partnership that will be profitable to us both. If I was to do pay per sale program now and offer triple the amount to you guys to lure you to my program and play that math game i'd be putting up a splash page of my failure to reasonably soon. Oh, and btw, with a list of angry people wanting cash to ;)

    Maybe i've shot myself in the foot - but those of you who agree, you know where to find me


    be our partner - join nichepartners today
    will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada
  • $5 submissions
    I help you SUCCEED
    • Nov 2003
    • 32189

    #2
    Good post. PPS is on shaky ground but revshare might show some vulnerability as well. Specially if the recent "regulatory environment" in Washington re bank/credit practices translates to regulation of auto-rebills.

    Comment

    • The Porn Nerd
      Living The Dream
      • Jun 2009
      • 19781

      #3
      PPS is the devil's playground.
      Revshare remains.
      Do the math.

      Excellent post.
      My Affiliate Programs:
      Porn Nerd Cash | Porn Showcase | Aggressive Gold

      Over 90 paysites to promote!
      Now on Teams: peabodymedia

      Comment

      • Barefootsies
        Choice is an Illusion
        • Feb 2005
        • 42635

        #4
        Nice post and excellent read.

        Thank ye fine sire.
        Should You Email Your Members?

        Link1 | Link2 | Link3

        Enough Said.

        "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

        Comment

        • Chosen
          • Aug 2001
          • 63151

          #5
          Good post, thanks

          Comment

          • amateurcanada
            Confirmed User
            • Jul 2001
            • 3766

            #6
            Your right $5 submissions, this will make revshare harder, but will wipe out large pay per sale programs indeed.

            be our partner - join nichepartners today
            will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

            Comment

            • goodsites
              Confirmed User
              • Jan 2010
              • 538

              #7
              Nice quip, but the big boys don't do revshare. So if you want to waste your time with someone who just woke up and wants to start a turnkey redirection trick and sell 1000 web submission link software, by all means create a partner program. If you want the truckload of sales in a day, you better bust out your wallet, they dont do revshare

              Comment

              • Sam - Mr. Skin
                Registered User
                • Feb 2010
                • 1688

                #8
                I couldn't agree more. Payouts that seem too good to be true are typically just that.

                Sam Rakowski
                ICQ: 564531991
                Skype, Yahoo, AIM: samski1977
                [email protected]

                Comment

                • fatfoo
                  ICQ:649699063
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 27763

                  #9
                  An open person shows his face
                  He must be king in human race
                  Sales are down is a common thread
                  To make more money win a bet
                  Increase revenue, decrease expense
                  Measure profit to the pence
                  Send me an email: [email protected]

                  Comment

                  • D Ghost
                    null
                    • May 2006
                    • 9819

                    #10
                    I agree with your points

                    Comment

                    • Rochard
                      Jägermeister Test Pilot
                      • Dec 2001
                      • 75733

                      #11
                      Originally posted by amateurcanada
                      You cannot, with any reliability (in this economy), calculate how many members WILL occur, WILL upsell, WILL take on further debt with affiliated sites.
                      You couldn't be more wrong. The equation is still the same, just the numbers have changed. If you look at your stats you'll see "X%" rebill each month. It changes from month to month, but when you compare them to prior months and then prior years a pattern emerges. Less members upsell and less members recur, but it still follows the laws of averages.

                      I do mostly blogs these days. I can tell you exactly what my sales will be. Every January traffic will dip slightly, and sales will drop - Christmas bills becoming due. Every summer traffic drops and sales drop - Starts in June, and comes back in September. However, this year surprised me - June was down, but July is turning out to be my best month ever. But this might be because I'm being rather aggressive about expanding my network.
                      Herschel Savage
                      Brooklyn, NY

                      Comment

                      • Paul Markham
                        Too old to care
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 52942

                        #12
                        I agree with a lot of your pints amateurcanada. The buyer is wiser today and has more options. Getting the buyers today to support unrealistic payouts is getting harder and harder.

                        The companies who closed due to the new rules good fucking riddance. The affiliates who were unpaid deserved what they did not get. Both made it harder for honest people to make a living.



                        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                        PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                        Comment

                        • mikesinner
                          Confirmed User
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 5646

                          #13
                          I think closing your program to anyone is a bad idea. If you want to run it like that give people a lower percentage or payout until they reach so many sales per month and then bump them up. Seems fair and you can still advertise your regular payout.

                          My Best Sponsors MPl l Camsl CUMSHOTSl LESBIANSl FETISHl BJ RACESl TEEN BJl BSDMl VODl USE YOUR PC TO CURE CANCER

                          Comment

                          • amateurcanada
                            Confirmed User
                            • Jul 2001
                            • 3766

                            #14
                            No closures here mikesinner, infact we have expanded and are releasing several new unique sites and retaining features to keep people interested. Porn is fun but we need to adjust how we sell - keep the math in check and reasonably profitable.

                            be our partner - join nichepartners today
                            will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

                            Comment

                            • Raf1
                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 12117

                              #15
                              I agree with this too. Nice post, even with it's promo intentions ;)
                              80% Revshare or 30$ PPS on $1 trials: 200 Niches = Vidz.com Galleries / FLVs / Embeds
                              3 & 5mins FLVs | RSS & Tube Feeds | Matching Thumbs | FLV Browser & Exporter | No Prechecked Xsales
                              >> Mobile Redirection Script: mobile.vidz.com also paying 80% net Lifetime << ICQ: 198-394-557

                              Comment

                              • amateurcanada
                                Confirmed User
                                • Jul 2001
                                • 3766

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Raf1
                                I agree with this too. Nice post, even with it's promo intentions ;)
                                I know I know - useful info for a price lol. Nice movie exporter tool - I remember checking you out when we designed ours lol ;)

                                be our partner - join nichepartners today
                                will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

                                Comment

                                • Mefo
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jun 2002
                                  • 6169

                                  #17
                                  Well the trend is definitely that the xsell programs are going to shit... good more money for the real revshare deals

                                  Comment

                                  • amateurcanada
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Jul 2001
                                    • 3766

                                    #18
                                    I agree Mefo! :D

                                    be our partner - join nichepartners today
                                    will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

                                    Comment

                                    • baddog
                                      So Fucking Banned
                                      • Apr 2001
                                      • 107089

                                      #19
                                      I'll stick with PPS. Lifetime revshare doesn't mean what it used to.

                                      Comment

                                      • V_RocKs
                                        Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
                                        • Nov 2003
                                        • 32448

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by goodsites
                                        Nice quip, but the big boys don't do revshare. So if you want to waste your time with someone who just woke up and wants to start a turnkey redirection trick and sell 1000 web submission link software, by all means create a partner program. If you want the truckload of sales in a day, you better bust out your wallet, they dont do revshare
                                        Right, but this type of affiliate is someone you know WILL send X number of sales in a month or you can shitcan his ass. So you can write a budget based on 6 whales, 4 semi-whales and 20 that are grouped into being very consistent... Then gamble with the remaining 18% of your business.

                                        So Mr Whale #1 can negotiate a PPS of $42 paid up front on 1,600 sales that month. The smaller guys can do revshare and when they can do 400 to 500 sales in a month consistently, they too can negotiate for something more lucrative.

                                        Oh and Lexi's thumb is broken
                                        http://www.cameltoecanada.com/index....OjI6Ng,0,0,0,0

                                        Comment

                                        • amateurcanada
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jul 2001
                                          • 3766

                                          #21
                                          V Rocks:

                                          Definately! We secretely negotiate PPS deals for high performers - but the ratio is finely tuned to ensure profitability. (thanks for the missing link on our discount site)

                                          Baddog:

                                          This of course is a good option - we carry more overhead etc. as we ship out free dvds and other fun ways to retain members - in the long term we do pay more but its all about how fast you want to get paid - BELIEVE me instant gratification has always won me over heh.

                                          be our partner - join nichepartners today
                                          will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

                                          Comment

                                          • amateurcanada
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Jul 2001
                                            • 3766

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by fatfoo
                                            An open person shows his face
                                            He must be king in human race
                                            Sales are down is a common thread
                                            To make more money win a bet
                                            Increase revenue, decrease expense
                                            Measure profit to the pence
                                            I like sales.

                                            be our partner - join nichepartners today
                                            will.assum.producer @ AmateurCanada.com / icq: 30146166 / facebook.com/will.assum / #amateurcanada

                                            Comment

                                            • AzteK
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Feb 2001
                                              • 3451

                                              #23
                                              As a webmasters stand point, unless I have a white-label where I'm building clients, it's too risky to do a rev share with a sponsor. I want my money now, I let you worry about the rest. The most I'll trust you with is 2 weeks of commissions. If you've run a program long enough you know your numbers and what you can pay per sign up. If a webmasters referrals are not meeting your baseline then you have the option to asking them to switch to a rev share. It's over all performance that you should care about anyways.

                                              Comment

                                              • the indigo
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Sep 2001
                                                • 2016

                                                #24
                                                How can you get any sales from a site such as cameltoecanada.com with a shitty old design and full of 404's images?
                                                "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -Hunter S. Thompson

                                                Comment

                                                • Konda
                                                  ...
                                                  • Apr 2003
                                                  • 2280

                                                  #25
                                                  It's because they all relied on selling their xsales to third parties to be able to do pps. When the banks made stricter regulations about this and the biggest xsell buyers stopped taking them (and didn't payout the last months of xsales), exactly at the same time when they got tons of money frozen at Webmaster Checks they had no option but to close their affiliate programs.

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