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It is very cut and dry. The ship wasn't inspected, if it was it wasn't by the Israelis, the ship was boarded in international waters off the coast of Israel, was boarded under international law, and they were attacked.
Once again, very cut and dry: Israelis legally boarded ship under international law and was attacked.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100601/...l_palestinians
Look at those angry, Godless Israeli savages coming to a peaceful agreement. They're planning something!Greed is Good
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Just to add to that, it turns out the commandos were using "paintball guns" i shit you not but they also had pistols ( makes sense ). funny thing is when i saw the video i thought " those look lke paintball guns". When they dropped onto the deck , they started firing paintballs, some protesters attacked the commandos , 2 of them lost their pistols, the commandos then opened fire on the unarmed people shooting dozens of them although granted they would have been torn up if they hadn't at that point
I imagine much the same scenario anywhere in the world if you were stupid enough to drop a few people onto a boat with over 600 people on it.
so for the record the ships were unarmed , carried no guns or ammunition period. No threat to anyonehatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Okay, so just to clarify, we invade a country that is supposed to have WMD's and mostly cause the DICTATOR OF SAID COUNTRY was faking he ACTUALLY had them to keep everyone in line and we are fucking ANTI-CHRISTS, but Israel shoots down a CRUISE LINER and it's all cool CAUSE THEY ARE JEWS and I guess persecuted or something or another.Comment
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Whoever tries to spin that it took place in international waters is doing so to push their agenda.
Even Israel's oldest newspaper claims it happened in international waters
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...ch-us-1.293089
end of story on that
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No.
The israelis attacked a pre-inspected (not israeli inspected, this is not the world according to the israeli govt) aid ship in international waters. end of story.
you see, when soldiers are repelling onto a ship with weapons, they are attacking the ship.
its obvious on the video, and anyone with balls like the people who attacked them to get them off the ship were justified in doing so. ATTN Webmasters Cruel Bucks - LIVE Gonzo Does Not Pay
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English is not my main language so we can also agree that it can be hard to understand what I wrote.What is strange to me is that you have so strong opinion even with option to research more on your own ( I did many times on this subject). Example for that is lack of knowledge even for basic things (relevant to this subject) about Bondsteel size. You can see some info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel where you can find info and I hope you won't consider wikipedia "crappy" resource. (".....Camp Bondsteel has many facilities on base for use by the soldiers and civilian employees who live and work there, and can hold up to 7,000 soldiers which makes it the largest US base in the Balkans. The post exchange (PX) is the largest military exchange in south eastern Europe and contains all the necessities and more that someone may need while in Kosovo, including TVs, phones, books, DVDs, CDs, small furniture, video games, computers, clothes, shoes, food, and more, all in its two story building.[1]..")Originally posted by Jesus H ChristYour opinion is nothing but speculation and a bit tough to read/understand?
hmmm, let me take a stab at it..so the Muslim genocide won't happen again? Also, I think we have less then 1500 troops in Kosovo so it is certainly not the "biggest"..
No, "My opinion" was the US has no interests in the points "you" bring up. You know, like we Americans set up a drug dealing supply line?
...and we finally agree on something..
Femdom Destiny
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I won't get into classification since It's not my expertise. I don't see relevance is it only or you expected more bases there.(hundreds miles from their home). Whatever it is (though wikipedia says it is a base) it is biggest and that's all what I wanted to tell and if someone read this at all, will make it's own conclusion why there is biggest military base/camp. Anyway, it is policy of double standards same way as it was in Bosnia, and these are guys USA helped there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJrNe...eature=related and helped in Kosovo by giving them weapons to attack sovereign country established centuries ago later claiming that they are victims.Originally posted by Jesus H ChristFemdom Destiny
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See, you look at Iraq and think we went in to find WMD. I was in the Marines in 1991 (but did not go to Iraq), and I saw we went in because of what they did to Kuwait. We kicked their ass in 1991, but that failed to settle anything.
I don't understand why people question this. If the police come to your door step with a search warrant, legal or not, you don't sent out your friends to beat them up with pipes. Someone is gonna get shot. At the end of the day it's that fucking simple.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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This is a difference between polite and educated people, wherever they post,porn forum or chat in person. Your arrogance is obvious from it's begining and that is exactly same way US government is acting worldwide. Some history lessons would help you understand much more things around globe, you just need good will.(like I have while reading 13 colonies history when I have enough time). What I wrote is not switching to anything and I guess you can see it like that because it is too much information for you to take in consideration.Originally posted by Jesus H Christokay, this is the problem I have with debating with Eastern Europeans. You brought up the original point about bases/camps and US occupation in Kosovo and then stated I am to afraid to face that facts ETC. Well, I showed you the facts and now you switch to a different argument about weapons to attack sovereign country. It never ends with you people and you will argue to the last breath regardless of the facts.
Maybe if you stop trying to win every argument and negotiate more, Americans/NATO won't be fucking your women, building bases/camps, shitting in toilets that are then deposited in your sovereign soil? The sad part is there is fuck all you can do about it..well accept cry in a porn forum.
It was clear example what you did in Bosnia and did again in Kosovo. Not so hard to understand (isnt' it?). And when you are talking about facts I thought it is clear that you were wrong for Bondsteel, don't know toxicology results about Milosevic death, or don't even know about organ harvesing or fake Racak incident and american citizen behind it. (I don't expect to admit it here, and there is so much things you simply CAN't know from your perspective).
Things are not so simple and history errors once made, have much deeper consequences. Your ignorance and arrogance won't change that anywhere in the world.
And when we talk about modern history, I feel that I should mention you backed up guys like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Wa...(1st_Albanian) and turned back to guys like this : http://www.teslasociety.com/500.htm
Personally, I would feel shame, although you need enough info before feeling it.
So, I am sure Isreal know really good what will happen if they allow Muslims to work their way. If there are Israelis here on forum,just use example of what happened in Balkans and take a look video in my previous post, and you will have enough reason to continue fighting or you will be history very soon. In same time, I feel sorry for any manipulated people or people suffering in this conflict (Palestinians).Last edited by femdomdestiny; 06-01-2010, 04:23 PM.Femdom Destiny
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Why does this not make sense?
We went into Iraq in 1991, kicked their ass. Because we have no plans to create a huge empire, we didn't go into Iraq. Instead, we allowed their government to remain in power by signing a peace treaty. Nearly instantly the peace treaty was violated. It got to the point while Clinton was in office that they were shooting at us daily. I'm a former United States Marine; I'm pretty fucking confident that when any country launches a missile at a US warplane it's an act of war. This went on for years.
You say we went "back in" looking for WMDs. I say they declared war on us by firing at us on a daily basis.
While we are talking declaring war, isn't the Israeli naval blockade an act of war? Not to mention the missiles hitting Israel on a daily basis?Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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And the evil Israeli mind readers are to know this how? Did they forget to bring their special Zionist evil over lord detector rings?
It seems to me if they were actually using paint ball guns they went above and beyond their duty to try and not harm innocent bystanders. Our Military sure as hell would send troops into that situation with paint ball guns.
The Video pretty much supports the soldiers side of the story as you can clearly see they were being attacked the moment they landed on the decks. Like it or not they had a job to do and it doesn't matter if it's un-popular with a bunch of activists or not.
This isn't like the Thai govt actively having it's troops shoot civilian protesters. (btw where is the big 20 page topic and out rage about that? ) The point being the blockade was a known factor and these ships tried to run it knowing they would cause a conflict. They stopped being "innocent" civilians the moment they boarded those ships to try and run a military blockade.
For the Record I do think Israel can go a bit far at time and by no means do I think they are blameless in the whole middle east problems. However I looks at the facts of what happened here instead of just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Their soldiers had every right in the world to open up fire in this situation.Last edited by crockett; 06-01-2010, 05:30 PM.In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.Comment
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It's not the world according to Israel. But it's the Israeli blockade, and only they decide who inspects the ships, but they only the Israelis decide which ships can pass.
I'm guess saying that "Turkey inspected the ship" means about zip to the Israelis.
BTW, I have yet to see in the press that it was inspected before it left port.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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I agree with you. Israel can - and has - gone too far. Clearly their intention here to seize as much territory as they can. They've been doing this very slowly over the past forty years, and the amount of territory they do not control or own is slowly shrinking.
And I can understand why. Their entire race has been under threat for the past one hundred years or so. I'll never understand why one race believes they can look down at another race, or how one race believes they are better than any other race. Even before the Nazis, the entire Jewish race was looked down at.
But you need to take the Muslim / Middle East / Israeli context out of the issue. If your off the coast of any country, that country under international law has the right to stop you and inspect you. It's never open to discussion. Ever. The United States does this every day, mostly in the interests of stopping drugs from coming in.
Has Israel done wrong? You betcha. They sure aren't saints, that's for sure. They once bombed a clearly marked US ship because they knew it was listening in on something else that the Israelis didn't want anyone in the world to know.
To top it off, they are sending out another boat to run the blockade. It's amazing.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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lol .. again those " no-fly zones " ... Research it and see the legality of it..
Same with your " we can board any ships in international waters " .. research that too, and post links to the international law that allows that..
Not because you repeat it over and over that it becomes a truth ...
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !
But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....Comment
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I've never researched the "no fly zones". I don't believe there is an "international law" about no fly zones, and there's never been a ruling for or against them. However, it was part of the peace treaty Iraq signed, and thus, it became fucking legal.lol .. again those " no-fly zones " ... Research it and see the legality of it..
Same with your " we can board any ships in international waters " .. research that too, and post links to the international law that allows that..
Not because you repeat it over and over that it becomes a truth ...
I have researched international law a bit being as it's coming up in this thread. You should do some research to.
According to "international law", or the "United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea", you have what's called an "exclusive economic zones". This is two hundred miles from the coast of the host country. In this zone, all nations have the right to transit this area, but is "subject to the regulation of the coastal state". In perfect English, it means if your 200 miles off the coast of Israel they can order a ship to stop, board it, and inspect it.
This is exactly how the United States and the US Coast Guard deals with drug runners. Don't they call it a "safety inspection" or something like that, and if they find drugs or something illegal they arrest them all?
Israel was exercising it's legal right to board and inspect a ship. Israel legally boarded a ship that refused to stop, and was attacked them as they boarded.Last edited by Rochard; 06-01-2010, 10:01 PM.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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I feel that I must correct you...the no fly zones were not part of the cease fire agreement...but were imposed at a later point when Sadam began attacking the Kurds in the North and the Shiites in the South of Iraq. We and the French...I think...imposed the no fly zones with the French withdrawing at some point. I don't think the UN sanctioned the no fly zones and DirectFiesta thinks that if something is not sanctioned by the UN it is then an illegal act...to which I say pigshit.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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fuck UN, UN has no muscle or authority to enforce anything.
US has always been the muscle and enforcer of UNComment
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In all fairness, why stop there?
The UN is entirely biased organization that rarely has the best interests of all of it's members at heart, but instead caters to handful of nations that carry the weight. Granted, it might have stopped a few large wars, but in the mean time we have places like Africa that have gone through twenty years of warfare without so much as a mention. Go figure.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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so you think usa would allow north korea to send commando's onto american ships in international waters to "inspect" the ship.
get real
Do you think israel would allow armed palestinians to inspect their ships ? syrians ? thats what i thought, what you meant to say was "if you are jewish" its ok , " if you are muslim" it's not ok.
and by "inspect" do you mean attack and murder civilians carrying aid or actually inspect like in the dictionary ?hatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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Turkey should apologize for having forced Israel to attack civilian ships. The Palestinians should compensate Israel for the Diesel that had to be used by the Israeli navy. The Arabs should donate some land to Israel to help alleviate the pain of being attacked unfairly in the international antisemitic media.Comment
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Well North Korea "commando's" did more than board an American ship in international waters...it killed and wounded crew members...captured the ship...the USS Pueblo...in '68 and still has the ship to this day. It released the surviving crew members...82 men...11 months later.Last edited by theking; 06-02-2010, 04:07 AM.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Dunno what videos you guys are watching, but its pretty clear those soldiers were being attacked in what looked like an ambush as soon as they landed on the ship. At one point there were queues waiting for the next soldier so they could get stuck into him...
If you are being boarded by soldiers with guns manning a blockade you don't ambush them with knives and other weapons and expect them not to use their guns. Common sense maybe?IW
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All Israel haters on this thread, please see this and tell us what you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMjAULWn0Comment
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As even TheKing said, the " no-fly zones " werre not part of any agreement of any type :
So much for your justification for war " they were shooting at our planes " ...The Iraqi no-fly zones were a set of two separate no-fly zones (NFZs), and were proclaimed by the United States, United Kingdom and France after the Gulf War of 1991 to protect humanitarian operations in northern Iraq and Shiite Muslims in the south. Iraqi aircraft were forbidden from flying inside the zones. The policy was enforced by US, UK and French aircraft patrols until France withdrew in 1998. While the enforcing powers had cited United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 as authorizing the operations, the resolution contains no explicit authorization. The Secretary-General of the UN at the time the resolution was passed, Boutros Boutros-Ghali called the no-fly zones "illegal" in a later interview with John Pilger[1][2].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_no-fly_zones
As for the boarding ( not mentionning killings ) of ships in International waters , I still am waiting for your backup on that . It should be easy for you to provide it as you are so adament that it is normal, legal and done daily ... by ... some unnamed other countries ...
Finally, for the UN, it should be dismantled. It is rendered useless by the non-stop protection from a security council member of one of the worst offender in the post WW2 era, and only serves as a smoke screen when needed to " justify " so called operations that are in fact not even sanctionned ( as in the no-fly zones article ).I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !
But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....Comment
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During its searches of the Mavi Marmara on Tuesday, the military also discovered a cache of bulletproof vests and night-vision goggles, as well as gas masks. On Monday morning, at least nine foreign activists were killed during the navy’s takeover of the Mavi Marmara, which was trying to break Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip.
The group of over 50 passengers with possible terror connections have refused to identify themselves and were not carrying passports. Many of them were carrying envelopes packed with thousands of dollars in cash.
The military is working to identify the passengers and is looking into the possibility that some of them have been involved in terror attacks. Some of them are apparently known Islamic extremists.
“This is the group that was behind the violent lynch against the naval commandos,” a defense official said. “They came on board the ship prepared and after they had trained for the expected navy takeover.”
Owned....Greed is GoodComment
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correction : crew member ( singular )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)
,,, and they just wanted to board and inspect .. all perfectly legal .... in national waters ..
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !
But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....Comment
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Apparently what witnesses from the boats are saying is that israel opened fire at the boat and wounded people before they actually boarded it. There is some footage that seem to confirm this as well.
Regardless of who started the violence. Experts in international law that have commented the case, have said that Israel had no right to board the ships and that it is a grave breech of international law.
From what I understand, Israel would have the right to inspect the ship if they where considered to be in a state of war, which they are not considered to be by the international community. However inspect does not equal board and they would only have had the right to turn the ships away if they found weapons on them (metalrods and knives don't count....). They never have any right to confiscate ships of nations they are not at war with.
Either way you twist this Israel has breeched international treaties that they are party too and should be punished.
In my opinion the only solution to the Israel/Palestine problem is to put Palestine under UN rule with international peacekeeping forces until the current ruling generations are no longer relevant (25+ years).Alea iacta estComment
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"witnesses from the boats "
This is 1000% lie. Why you think the soldiers came in first place using PAINT GUNS?
Show me the footage, I want to see a link!!!!!!!! 1 link, 1 footage, SHOW ME.
Israel could stop the boat easliy with 0 soldiers wounded, but they wanted to make it peacefully, then they got attacked.
Sorry. this is the turth.Comment
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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !
But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....Comment
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there will be no videos from the crew....idf confiscated all camera cards and camera footage first, laptops, everything was taken. which if i were on that ship, id think they were going to kill us and would revolt too, you dont take cameras while "inspecting a ship" you take footage and remove evidence before or after you gun down people. which they did.Last edited by Fletch XXX; 06-02-2010, 06:44 AM.
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Rochard Rules!
The discussion style strictly constructive with support of interesting facts.
Short, constructive criticism, no yellow shit.
Oppositing "TV crowd", the majority.
Solid respectable tactics.
The idealists with TV-Brains become eyes of the stupid crowd, pushing them into the bloody conflicts, graves, while they are collecting dividends.
Fuck them all!
Fuck media!
Fuck western model of human rights, created by western intelectuals!
Fuck UN - The VIP club for bloody politicians! Created by just 4 powers. The sourse of "equality" with unequal rules!Last edited by DOX; 06-02-2010, 06:47 AM.Comment
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...ex.html?hpt=T2
There are several Swedish members of the flotilla that has testified about Israeli brutallity on other ships that didn't resist the boardings.
Link in Swedish:
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/meh...anda-1.1115400
As for the footage I have seen it was Al Jazeera so I will not truly belive it until it is confirmed.Alea iacta estComment
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