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That is an OLD entry of Wikipedia, try the updated one instead which also is where I got the link to the PBS leaflet. I mean if you are going to cite sub-sources go directly to the sources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_...a_and_NagasakiComment
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The Japanese had a plan that everyone would kill their kids and themselves if the US launched a land invasion into mainland Japan and the Military would fight to the death.Originally posted by pornopete
Another reason Hiroshima and Nagasaki were picked was because we pretty much fire bombed most of the bigger cities throughout Japan and they were running out of targets that would have a big impact.
For those interested in the history we DID warn them and Hilohito wanted to surrender but his Generals and War staff wouldn't let him. He was really a figurehead to keep the masses in line but the country was really run by the Generals.
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well wikipedia then..states that there was no warning of the nuclear attack
i mjean that is what we are talking about..so lets find out.
why dont one of you guys look for the facts...a bit further then wikipediaTelegram PhoenixBrad
https://quantads.ioComment
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So that 2nd bomb magically made them think “oh shit, this a-bomb thing must be for REALS! We thought that first one was just some elaborate illusion that David Copperfield setup! OH NOES, SURRENDERS NOW!”?
First bomb goes off, destroys 60%+ of the city, 70k of their people die nearly instantaneously… they are down with that, it's all good. But when that second bomb went off JESUS CHRIST NO!
Seriously, that makes no sense. After they saw the destructive power of the bomb their timetable was already set in motion. Any additional bombs we used did nothing to further expedite things imo.
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For the last 50+ years people have been debating that question and the vast majority of scholars, strategists, politicians and historians come to the conclusion time and time again that the bombs were probably the quickest least costly solution for all sides involved. Watch any documentary about the bombs and most of the time near the end they will have this very question and some opinions on the subject.Comment
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Japanese civilian deaths .....
Nagasaki ... about 50,000 nuclear
Hiroshima ... about 125,000 nuclear
Tokoyo ... about 125,000 fire-bombing
Conventional bombing would have eventually killed far more, nuclear got their attention and everything ended sooner.Comment
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For someone that seems to have such little understanding of the mid 20th century culture and even less understanding of mid 20th century world events, you sure yap quite a bit.
Would I have used two A-bombs to end the war in the Pacific theater? ABSOLUTELY.
1.4 to four million Allied casualties estimated in an invasion v. 140,000 civilian casualties
Sorry but sometimes -- it's that simple.Comment
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Japanese kiilled millions of innocent Asian people during the war.
kidnapped and raped tens of thousands of Asian women, compulsorily drafted 10000's of young men in their colonies under name of their emperor.
I believe dropping the bombs SAVED not only lives on both sides but also 1000000's of Asian citizens.
254-282-542Comment
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yeah japan has a violent violent history..my wife is korean..she tells me all about itJapanese kiilled millions of innocent Asian people during the war.
kidnapped and raped tens of thousands of Asian women, compulsorily drafted 10000's of young men in their colonies under name of their emperor.
I believe dropping the bombs SAVED not only lives on both sides but also 1000000's of Asian citizens.
Telegram PhoenixBrad
https://quantads.ioComment
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Japan needed a crippling blow. And then another one to show we were not a one hit wonder and that we were totally serious.
Japan was under a fanatical regime. They were prepared to fight to the end.
An invasion in lieu of the bomb was projected to kill millions.Comment
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Truman officially warned the Japanese government to surrender completely, or suffer "complete and utter destruction."
The people of Hiroshima were not warned. The only "warning" they recieved were the 3 planes picked up at radar and some warning about this on Japanese radio broadcast. Since it was a small formation, and they lacked fuel and equipment, they were ordered not to attack the planes. They did not know what was coming.
Thats what happened. If the bombings were right or wrong, is another story.Comment
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lets leave my intelligence out of it and concentrate on the facts and merits of this issue
my plan would absolutely work, and the only caveat i have seen with it so far may be not portraying the image/perception that the US does not fuck around and WILL bomb the fuck out of 170,000 people if it wants to, maybe to show russia it means businessWebmasterchecks Affiliate Payments - fully compatible with nats/mpa3Comment
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In hindsight sixty years after the fact, we cannot judge why the US dropped nuclear bombs on Japan in the 1940s. It was a very different time, the world was in a different place; The world had been at war for almost a decade and millions upon millions were being slaughtered.
People are horrified that over three thousand US soldiers have been killed in Iraq. Compare this to five thousand in one day on one island in the South Pacific ( Iwo Jima ).
It was a different time and a war the likes of which we have never seen since. There was no smart bombs. Read the Geneva that was in place at the time of WWII; If a city had a any type of military outpost it was considered fair game. Because of the weapons of that time, it was common to bomb entire cities, destroying them.
In today's world nuclear weapons are considered "bad" and "evil". But during WWII the object was to destroy, not select worthy targets. The US sent out fleets of bombers, sometimes two hundred bombers at a time, to attack cities. More people died in such single bombing missions than died from a single nuclear attack....
The end goal of the nuclear bomb was, in simple terms, to big a bigger bomb.
And the Emperor did want to surrender.....
In fact, the Emperor made a recording stating he wanted to surrrender, and the military stormed the palace and took control of the country. ( I don't remember if this was shortly before the first bomb or shortly after.)
The Japanese were rather brutal warriors. They would kill themselves before surrendering. Civilians as well - They would rather kill themselves before accepting American occupation.
The US was planning to invade the mainland of Japan. Based on what the US had learned while fighting from island to island across the South Pacific, the US knew that this would be a long and costly battle. It's possible that more Japanese would have died in fighting on the mainland than died with the two bombs that were dropped on two cities.
Was a warning issued? I've been reading about WWII for twenty years and never heard they were warned. This doesn't bother me; None of the countries warned others they were attacking a certain city and when 100k people died in coventional bombing and no one really lost sleep over it.
But the most interesting part of the entire story is the honor of the Japanese people. They lost the war - for a large number of reasons - but still held their head guy and accepted the defeat. Look at Japan now. One can even question who really came out on top.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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its one thing to seriously setup a process to properly communicate to people that we have a weapon that can seriously fuck them up, and they better get serious
or to just go through the motions
im serious that i cant believe some of you are not this compassionate, this could have been our neighborhoods, our sisters and mothers and wives, with just one little twist of destiny, we could have been in their shoes, and this was something that was preventable, one mans decision, a proper communication of how we can seriously fuck them up in a way they would understand may have saved 170,000 livesWebmasterchecks Affiliate Payments - fully compatible with nats/mpa3Comment
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I guess the talking up the chicks didn't go over too well.Comment
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I'm not about to get drawn into your self-indulgant little fantasy rant here, except to say that no one on our side WANTED to bomb ANYONE. It was done to force an early end to the war and to halt the killing. Period.
Japan could have prevented all of it had they just stayed on their own soil, or at the very least had they surrendered when they had the chance. And they did have the chance, several times in fact. Wake up. Read a history book or something.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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My Grandmother's entire family was slaughtered by the Nazis and my Grandfather (on the other side of the family tree) died in the South Pacific. Tens of millions of lives were lost on both sides, and many many more would have died if the US invaded the Japanese mainland. If the bombs weren't dropped and the US was forced to invade, the war would have dragged on another year and yet more millions of lives would have been lost.
People continue to question why the US nuked Japan. More people, innocent and otherwise, died in other large scale bombing raids. The bombing of Dresden in Germany is a classic example, as is the bombing of Tokyo.
The two nukes on Japan saved millions of lives on both sides.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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Seems my figures might be off when I say "five million lives" were saved by the dropping of the bombs.
From Wikipedia:
Casualty predictions varied widely, but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for American casualties and the tens of millions for Japanese casualties.
Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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cause we're really nasty
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All the talk about the bombings saved lives is just BS, and grandpa propaganda from the 50s & 60s.
The reason the japanese did not surrender was because they were given the terms unconditional surrender. At those times, the emperor was considered a God, and the terms of surrender included that the emperor had to give up his throne. This was impossible and totally unacceptable for the Japanese samurai culture. Truman knew this, but he listened to the public opinion in US instead, they wanted to humiliate Japan as much as possible after all they had done, which somehow was emotional understandable. Japan then negotiated peace with Russia. The Allies had already broken the coded messages between Japan and Russia, and Truman knew that Japan seeked peace, but not unconditional. So instead of going for the diplomatic solution, simply by letting the monarchy stay (which it did afterwards anyway) they dropped the bombs and killed lots of civilians.
Truman and Eisenhower have later admitted they did the wrong thing.
So there were alternativ solutions, and the way they dropped the bombs is also questionable.
Oh yeah, if they went for the diplomatic solution, there would never have been any Russian invasion in Korea and wars later either. Its easy to say that now, but its a fact.Comment
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