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#1

Here is an idea for Industry Shows

05-07-2010, 11:13 AM

I don't know about other site owners but I don't feel the need to go to any shows any more. I'm much happier traveling to specific cities and meeting the people I need to meet face to face and discussing biz in their offices, on the golf course or at dinner. That said I've been trying to think what could help make our industry shows worth attending. Below is an idea I thought of.

I'd try to plan the shows at a time and location where there is a benefit to people attending. The biggest benefit would be another major show which would interest the big players. I've seen a growing trend of more and more big boys going to Ad Tech and Affiliate Summit instead of adult shows. Why not try to book a show around those shows? Some of those shows have so much information that could really help a number of webmasters expand and improve their business.

The reality is the main function AVN and Xbiz shows provide is a common meeting ground. The people attending the shows have to get more out of them than just meeting new people. The industry no longer has the masses of the early 2000s. The shows have to realize that and find a way to cater, attract and bring back the decision makers. That's where the $$$ are for these shows.

Those are my thoughts. I just got the AVN Show email and I have no interest in attending it. It got me thinking what would it take to get me interested again? I'm very interested in a number of mainstream shows because I know I'll leave their motivated and with the knowledge and awareness to improve my existing projects as well as be better prepared to launch our newer projects.

Anyhow what do you think?
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#2

05-07-2010, 11:14 AM

Cliffs notes: camp on mainstream ad shows?

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#3

05-07-2010, 11:17 AM

i wouldn't disagree. i also think there should be more variety re: the networking event which is always- golf. pretty silly imo for a variety of reasons, top 2 being not everyone golfs. 2. you are pretty much stuck with whoever is with your golfing party, so you don't really get to network with the majority of those golfing anyway, cept maybe at the 19th hole.......
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#4

05-07-2010, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by alias

Cliffs notes: camp on mainstream ad shows?

I wouldn't say mainstream ad shows. Mainstream shows of interest. As an example here is a show I believe a lot of people would learn a lot from http://www.web2expo.com/
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#5

05-07-2010, 11:20 AM

Eh, I didn't get any more accomplished at AdTech when I went a couple of years ago, I found many of the companies there to be "behind the times." I remember one ad company was excited to announce campaign tracking! Heh.

I haven't gotten a badge for Internext in the longest time because I never used the show, I just setup meetings and went to dinners.

Personally I've always gotten more done when I go on small trips. Half the time when we go on vacation, I'll try to get one dinner in with a company and I've always come back with biz.

However, I do agree with you that more piggybacking needs to happen. As you can see by the many threads, people's businesses are hurting, there isn't money to send reps to 10 shows/year for most.

I know we have to get enough ROI from each show to cover our expenses, or we can't go to the next one.

Last edited by kristin; 05-07-2010, 11:22 AM.

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#6

05-07-2010, 11:21 AM

I'm all for learning. Better than the same old bs/hype anyway.

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#7

05-07-2010, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by dyna mo

i wouldn't disagree. i also think there should be more variety re: the networking event which is always- golf. pretty silly imo for a variety of reasons, top 2 being not everyone golfs. 2. you are pretty much stuck with whoever is with your golfing party, so you don't really get to network with the majority of those golfing anyway, cept maybe at the 19th hole.......

Golf is a horrible networking event imo. It's great one on one if you set up your own round. But besides that it's brutal. If you are in the wrong foursome it's an entire day wasted (business wise).

I was looking at the AVN advert and it pushes the DVD and Novelty people at the summer show. I don't give a shit about those guys. If anything it encourages me to stay away from the show. I think shows need to cater to what the industry decision makers are doing right now.
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#8

05-07-2010, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Shap

I don't know about other site owners but I don't feel safe showing my face at shows any more.

Very reasonable feeling.
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#9

05-07-2010, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by KrisH

Very reasonable feeling.

LOL Good one. I've never had a single threat to my business or myself. Why would I not feel safe at shows?
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#10

05-07-2010, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by kristin

Eh, I didn't get any more accomplished at AdTech when I went a couple of years ago, I found many of the companies there to be "behind the times." I remember one ad company was excited to announce campaign tracking! Heh.

I haven't gotten a badge for Internext in the longest time because I never used the show, I just setup meetings and went to dinners.

Personally I've always gotten more done when I go on small trips. Half the time when we go on vacation, I'll try to get one dinner in with a company and I've always come back with biz.

However, I do agree with you that more piggybacking needs to happen. As you can see by the many threads, people's businesses are hurting, there isn't money to send reps to 10 shows/year for most.

I know we have to get enough ROI from each show to cover our expenses, or we can't go to the next one.

I've never been to ad tech so I don't know about that one. I do know shows like the web 2.0 show usually discuss where the web is going and what to be prepared for. Something our industry is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY behind on.
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#11

05-07-2010, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Shap

I've never been to ad tech so I don't know about that one. I do know shows like the web 2.0 show usually discuss where the web is going and what to be prepared for. Something our industry is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY behind on.

Yeah, we've actually been sending some of our behind the scenes guys to various shows that support upcoming development for the web.

I think if you stay ahead of the curve and gain from shows like this, you'd see more sales than sending a rep to an industry show.

Last edited by kristin; 05-07-2010, 11:30 AM.

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#12

05-07-2010, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by dyna mo

i wouldn't disagree. i also think there should be more variety re: the networking event which is always- golf. pretty silly imo for a variety of reasons, top 2 being not everyone golfs. 2. you are pretty much stuck with whoever is with your golfing party, so you don't really get to network with the majority of those golfing anyway, cept maybe at the 19th hole.......

I definitely agree on this. The only people who I want to see how terribly terrible I am at golf are close friends and family. (it's pretty bad...)

I think if prices were lowered, it'd get more people at the adult shows. I can seal more deals for free via ICQ/e-mail... then go out and party that night without buying a plane ticket/hotel room. $150+ for 500 people plus sponsorships... or $50 for maybe 2,000 people + sponsorships.

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#13

05-07-2010, 11:30 AM

Guess you could always arrange a meeting/mini show yourself, Shap.

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#14

05-07-2010, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Shap

LOL Good one. I've never had a single threat to my business or myself. Why would I not feel safe at shows?

Oh, I don't know...

Maybe because of all the people you push around and snatch away domains from, using legal threats?

Stuff like that...
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#15

05-07-2010, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by alias

I'm all for learning. Better than the same old bs/hype anyway.

That's why I'm not interested in shows. I honestly feel sick to my stomach when I get to a show. It's always the same shit. Same time wasters coming up shaking my hand and telling me about the new company they are with. If there was a show with no reps I'd probably go to that LOL.

The last show, I went to, I was asked to speak. I agreed. Here we were 5 of us on the panel. It turned out the moderator and one of the speakers did business together and it was a one hour promotion for this prick's new site (utherverse). A complete waste of my time and everyone who attended.

The main problem imo is that the majority of people in the industry are always out for themselves and only themselves. It's Blood sucking until the very last drop. When all you do is take without giving back at some point the pool of information deteriorates to nothing.
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#16

05-07-2010, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by kristin

Yeah, we've actually been sending some of our behind the scenes guys to various shows that support upcoming development for the web.

I think if you stay ahead of the curve and gain from shows like this, you'd see more sales than sending a rep to an industry show.

I was so pissed when I found out (too late of course) about the adult panel at SXSW. I would have loved to have been on that panel as well. Great move.
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#17

05-07-2010, 11:35 AM

It sounds like you need to use your ideas & influence to create a better approach.

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#18

05-07-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by alias

Guess you could always arrange a meeting/mini show yourself, Shap.

We've been doing that with great success and results lately. Not shows but meetings. Locally and abroad. The results are far better.

I just wrote this because I know AVN and Xbiz are still fighting to find that winning formula.
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#19

05-07-2010, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by KrisH

Oh, I don't know...

Maybe because of all the people you push around and snatch away domains from, using legal threats?

Stuff like that...

Business is business. I do what I have to to protect my investments.
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#20

05-07-2010, 11:42 AM

Nice input Shapalicious.

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#21

05-07-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Shap

Business is business. I do what I have to to protect my investments.

Just saying.
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#22

05-07-2010, 11:45 AM

To me the biggest negative to the adult shows is the number of affiliates attending... or should I say NOT attending.

I would say that affiliate attendance has decreased by greater than 50% from 5 years ago when I started attending shows. Many that I have talked to agree that seeing the affiliates at the show is the primary reason for attending.

Bottom line is that I base my decisions on what shows to attend by the number of prospective affiliates that are attending. This guarantees nothing but the opportunity to build a relationship that will hopefully lead to future business.

For those that know me I work the hell out of a show from a business perspective but when one of the largest shows in the industry provides me with less than 5 prospects then it is definitely time to re-evaluate what shows I will attend in the future.
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#23

05-07-2010, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Shap

I think shows need to cater to what the industry decision makers are doing right now.

Problem is the "industry" doesn't have any "decision makers" Remember 10 years ago Andy Edmunds THOUGHT he was the "voice" of the "industry"

I'm not sure there is a real solution to this. The affiliate model is kinda hurting. And even when it did kick ass...there were still only a handful of guys who made big sales. I'm not sure what kind or ROI anybody is getting on shows these days.

I know the shows themselves are nothing like the spectacles from the late 1990's and 2000, 2001. And that would be because sponsors don't see any return from spending 50 grand at a show anymore. That's understandable.

Your idea to piggyback onto other shows has some merit...but again, which shows? I would find not much interest in the shows you used as an example. Others would. But you wouldn't really solve anything because everybody is diverse in what they are doing.

I almost think it would be better to have a show that was somewhere we could at least enjoy ourselves without getting ass raped.

Like the bahamas, or even here in Vegas IF the correct venues were chosen. Seems like the shows here in Vegas are always held at the places with the least value for your money.

For instance, The Rio here in Vegas is an all suite casino resort. I shot a couple of scenes there last night in a suite that cost me $50. The Rio is TOP notch all the way with great shows, restaurants and nightclubs. But they insist on AVN at having it at The Palms and bending everybody over.

Same with X Biz. They insist on The Hard Rock. Over priced rooms, over priced everything. And the girls get in trouble for taking their tits out!

We could have that summer forum at one of the many casino/resorts on the strip that actually have topless pools...but no.

I think I speak for a lot of folks who are getting tired of feeling like we get taken advantage of at shows. It doesn't matter that I have the money...it's the principle of the room rates getting jacked up double what other people pay when the "porn convention" is in town.

I think a lot of people stopped going a long time ago for that reason. Nobody likes to feel like they were taken for a ride. So we lose a lot of affiliates going to shows, and a lot of people we could do business with that own programs as well.

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#24

05-07-2010, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by AlmightyJim

To me the biggest negative to the adult shows is the number of affiliates attending... or should I say NOT attending.

I would say that affiliate attendance has decreased by greater than 50% from 5 years ago when I started attending shows. Many that I have talked to agree that seeing the affiliates at the show is the primary reason for attending.

Bottom line is that I base my decisions on what shows to attend by the number of prospective affiliates that are attending. This guarantees nothing but the opportunity to build a relationship that will hopefully lead to future business.

For those that know me I work the hell out of a show from a business perspective but when one of the largest shows in the industry provides me with less than 5 prospects then it is definitely time to re-evaluate what shows I will attend in the future.
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The affiliates going to shows are decreasing because the number of affiliates are decreasing.

I've said this before affiliates are a dying breed in our industry.
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#25

05-07-2010, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Shap

That said I've been trying to think what could help make our industry shows worth attending.

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#26

05-07-2010, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Shap

The affiliates going to shows are decreasing because the number of affiliates are decreasing.

I've said this before affiliates are a dying breed in our industry.

Yes and no, many affiliates just have their people they promote with no need to go to shows.

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#27

05-07-2010, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Robbie

Problem is the "industry" doesn't have any "decision makers" Remember 10 years ago Andy Edmunds THOUGHT he was the "voice" of the "industry"

I'm not sure there is a real solution to this. The affiliate model is kinda hurting. And even when it did kick ass...there were still only a handful of guys who made big sales. I'm not sure what kind or ROI anybody is getting on shows these days.

I know the shows themselves are nothing like the spectacles from the late 1990's and 2000, 2001. And that would be because sponsors don't see any return from spending 50 grand at a show anymore. That's understandable.

Your idea to piggyback onto other shows has some merit...but again, which shows? I would find not much interest in the shows you used as an example. Others would. But you wouldn't really solve anything because everybody is diverse in what they are doing.

I almost think it would be better to have a show that was somewhere we could at least enjoy ourselves without getting ass raped.

Like the bahamas, or even here in Vegas IF the correct venues were chosen. Seems like the shows here in Vegas are always held at the places with the least value for your money.

For instance, The Rio here in Vegas is an all suite casino resort. I shot a couple of scenes there last night in a suite that cost me $50. The Rio is TOP notch all the way with great shows, restaurants and nightclubs. But they insist on AVN at having it at The Palms and bending everybody over.

Same with X Biz. They insist on The Hard Rock. Over priced rooms, over priced everything. And the girls get in trouble for taking their tits out!

We could have that summer forum at one of the many casino/resorts on the strip that actually have topless pools...but no.

I think I speak for a lot of folks who are getting tired of feeling like we get taken advantage of at shows. It doesn't matter that I have the money...it's the principle of the room rates getting jacked up double what other people pay when the "porn convention" is in town.

I think a lot of people stopped going a long time ago for that reason. Nobody likes to feel like they were taken for a ride. So we lose a lot of affiliates going to shows, and a lot of people we could do business with that own programs as well.

I'm offering opinions from where I sit. And I know it's very different for everyone. You bring up some good points.

You know the shows should find a way to get affiliates by rewarding the sponsors. Instead of giving 4 badges so they can bring their reps. They should also give sponsors 10 affiliate badges that they can offer 100% for free to their affiliates as well as discounted rooms for affiliates. That way the sponsors are really paying and treating their affiliates. The cost of it is split between show organizers and sponsors so it's not a huge hit.

That said wasn't Xbiz free in 2009? I know the hotel wasn't but they tried the no cost show. Not sure how well it worked out.
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#28

05-07-2010, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Robbie

Problem is the "industry" doesn't have any "decision makers" Remember 10 years ago Andy Edmunds THOUGHT he was the "voice" of the "industry"

I'm not sure there is a real solution to this. The affiliate model is kinda hurting. And even when it did kick ass...there were still only a handful of guys who made big sales. I'm not sure what kind or ROI anybody is getting on shows these days.

I know the shows themselves are nothing like the spectacles from the late 1990's and 2000, 2001. And that would be because sponsors don't see any return from spending 50 grand at a show anymore. That's understandable.

Your idea to piggyback onto other shows has some merit...but again, which shows? I would find not much interest in the shows you used as an example. Others would. But you wouldn't really solve anything because everybody is diverse in what they are doing.

I almost think it would be better to have a show that was somewhere we could at least enjoy ourselves without getting ass raped.

Like the bahamas, or even here in Vegas IF the correct venues were chosen. Seems like the shows here in Vegas are always held at the places with the least value for your money.

For instance, The Rio here in Vegas is an all suite casino resort. I shot a couple of scenes there last night in a suite that cost me $50. The Rio is TOP notch all the way with great shows, restaurants and nightclubs. But they insist on AVN at having it at The Palms and bending everybody over.

Same with X Biz. They insist on The Hard Rock. Over priced rooms, over priced everything. And the girls get in trouble for taking their tits out!

We could have that summer forum at one of the many casino/resorts on the strip that actually have topless pools...but no.

I think I speak for a lot of folks who are getting tired of feeling like we get taken advantage of at shows. It doesn't matter that I have the money...it's the principle of the room rates getting jacked up double what other people pay when the "porn convention" is in town.

I think a lot of people stopped going a long time ago for that reason. Nobody likes to feel like they were taken for a ride. So we lose a lot of affiliates going to shows, and a lot of people we could do business with that own programs as well.

I'm with Robbie on this. The shows should be just as accessible to the big companies as the small companies. Flexing the industry's power via high-priced locations and hotels is something not everyone needs for every show. There are plenty of other venues that are just as nice that don't cost an arm and a cock.

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#29

05-07-2010, 12:15 PM

we're not in kansas anymore toto.

as the industry changes drastically, so must it's social scene.

i haven't seen anything change that actually needs to (in relation to shows).

same ol, same ol.

Last edited by seeric; 05-07-2010, 12:16 PM.
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#30

05-07-2010, 12:24 PM

Then again.. if guys like Shap were there speaking and things were actually said that had some juice... more "new guys" would come. I listened in on one "seminar" at last year's TPF and didn't hear anything new.

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#31

05-07-2010, 12:34 PM

I hope they hear you out man..

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#32

05-07-2010, 12:35 PM

There should be a show with camping,where instead booking a room you would bring tent and sleep on open ground.There is one show in germany which do that.
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#33

05-07-2010, 12:44 PM

Lol webmaster camp out, everyone would be trippin.

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#34

05-07-2010, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Shap

The last show, I went to, I was asked to speak. I agreed. Here we were 5 of us on the panel. It turned out the moderator and one of the speakers did business together and it was a one hour promotion for this prick's new site (utherverse). A complete waste of my time and everyone who attended.

That is how most of the panels are. Which is why people rarely go to them anymore.

You want a good laugh, go to a BROvention and peek in some of the seminars. I have seen some where they are lucky to get a couple of dozen back attendees to back.

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#35

05-07-2010, 12:54 PM

I don't really understand when people say that conventions aren't worth going to anymore. I attend four or so industry conventions every year and I get at least some business out of every single one. Certainly more than the money that I spend attending the shows. Now I don't spend a lot of money on the shows so my ROI is pretty good. Between the airfare, hotel (usually I stay at an inexpensive hotel near the show hotel) and sometimes a badge (if a client or sponsor does not offer me a comped one), plus eating and drinking, I may only spend about $1000 or $1200 for a four day trip as a single individual.

If I learn one thing, or meet one person that I do production or licensing business with or some other business like an opportunity to improve my own sites, it pays for the trip. I really think that shows are what you make of them. In my opinion, the lack of convention attendees who identify primarilly as affiliates is primarilly a function of the fact that most people who were only affiliates in the early days of adult internet now also have their own programs, tube sites and other ventures, or they stopped going to shows for their own personal reasons. I believe there is something to be learned even at a show where you do not expect to accomplish a lot of business.

Last edited by Jim_Gunn; 05-07-2010, 12:55 PM.
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#36

05-07-2010, 12:57 PM

i vote for webmaster camp out with djs and fire pits with pigs roasting over them.
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#37

05-07-2010, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Jim_Gunn

I don't really understand when people say that conventions aren't worth going to anymore. I attend four or so industry conventions every year and I get at least some business out of every single one. Certainly more than the money that I spend attending the shows. Now I don't spend a lot of money on the shows so my ROI is pretty good. Between the airfare, hotel (usually I stay at an inexpensive hotel near the show hotel) and sometimes a badge (if a client or sponsor does not offer me a comped one), plus eating and drinking, I may only spend about $1000 or $1200 for a four day trip as a single individual.

If I learn one thing, or meet one person that I do production or licensing business with or some other business like an opportunity to improve my own sites, it pays for the trip. I really think that shows are what you make of them. In my opinion, the lack of convention attendees who identify primarilly as affiliates is primarilly a function of the fact that most people who were only affiliates in the early days of adult internet now also have their own programs, tube sites and other ventures, or they stopped going to shows for their own personal reasons. I believe there is something to be learned even at a show where you do not expect to accomplish a lot of business.

I'll admit my cost of attending a show has gone up substantially. Why? Because I have a 2 year old boy. Going to a show means time away from him and any time I spend away from him needs to be EXTREMELY worthwhile.
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#38

05-07-2010, 12:59 PM

if you want people to go to seminars, they should just have models give hand jobs in the seminars. would make it a hell of a lot more worthwhile in going. at least then i have a hot chick stroking my junk instead of some appointed industry pro jerking my meat pistol for an hour.

Last edited by seeric; 05-07-2010, 01:07 PM.
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#39

05-07-2010, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Shap

I'll admit my cost of attending a show has gone up substantially. Why? Because I have a 2 year old boy. Going to a show means time away from him and any time I spend away from him needs to be EXTREMELY worthwhile.

Then you have no reason to go at all. Your boy is far more important at this stage of the game. Right now, I use the shows as a "vacation" just to get away from working for a couple of days. But I didn't attend any shows from 2002 to 2007 because I enjoyed vacations in the Bahamas, Jamaica, and Mexico FAR more with my family.

Only reason I started going back to them was when I opened Claudia-Marie's site. And I admit I've done 7 figures worth of business at shows back in 2007 (the deals and relationships are still paying of over time)

But I've run out of shit to do at them these days. So it's just a chance to have some drinks and laughs with people in the same biz. I wouldn't go at all if I had a 2 year old son. Don't blame you one bit.

-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com
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kristin

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#40

05-07-2010, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Shap

I'll admit my cost of attending a show has gone up substantially. Why? Because I have a 2 year old boy. Going to a show means time away from him and any time I spend away from him needs to be EXTREMELY worthwhile.

Yeah, I have two boys with both parents in the industry. Everyone always wonders why TheDoc stays home. =)

Vacares rules.

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sandman!

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#41

05-07-2010, 01:55 PM

affiliates have been gone forever from shows for a long time 95% of people i do biz with have never been to a show.

i remember some shows back in the day where it would be 70% affiliates.....

Originally posted by AlmightyJim

To me the biggest negative to the adult shows is the number of affiliates attending... or should I say NOT attending.

I would say that affiliate attendance has decreased by greater than 50% from 5 years ago when I started attending shows. Many that I have talked to agree that seeing the affiliates at the show is the primary reason for attending.

Bottom line is that I base my decisions on what shows to attend by the number of prospective affiliates that are attending. This guarantees nothing but the opportunity to build a relationship that will hopefully lead to future business.

For those that know me I work the hell out of a show from a business perspective but when one of the largest shows in the industry provides me with less than 5 prospects then it is definitely time to re-evaluate what shows I will attend in the future.
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fuzebox

making it rain

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#42

05-07-2010, 01:57 PM

I go to shows to hang out with friends. I'm resourceful, there are no opportunities offered at shows that I can't take care of myself from my own office. As both a full time affiliate and paysite owner, there isn't a single thing a show can offer to make me more money.

My problem with shows is everyone wants something from me. Hosts, billers, content companies, whatever... If I didn't already have these things taken care of, I couldn't afford to even be at the show to begin with If your product was worth switching to, I would have heard from it over ICQ from one of my friends (I chat with other affiliates and small program owners all day long). Panels are the same old spam, but I don't blame em... I wouldn't give away any profitable info on a panel either, and would only use the opportunity for exposure as well. Catch 22.
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seeric

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#43

05-07-2010, 02:03 PM

^^^ what he said too. thanks, no need to type that now.
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CarlosTheGaucho

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#44

05-07-2010, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by seeric

if you want people to go to seminars, they should just have models give hand jobs in the seminars. would make it a hell of a lot more worthwhile in going. at least then i have a hot chick stroking my junk instead of some appointed industry pro jerking my meat pistol for an hour.

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V_RocKs

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#45

05-07-2010, 03:14 PM

On board with you here... Adult shows seem way too much like an expensive party... Everyone is drunk, high or watching something that is taking their attention away from the deal.

Would be nice to make it more of a working atmosphere or at least, book it with something I want to go to because I am a tech-nut.
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