Bombshell: Silverstein Wanted To Demolish Building 7 On 9/11

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  • theking
    Nice Kitty
    • Sep 2002
    • 21053

    #51
    Originally posted by PornoStar69
    USS Liberty was a false flag operation fully approved by the LBJ administration

    google/youtube that.
    Pigshit.
    When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

    FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

    Comment

    • L-Pink
      working on my tan
      • Mar 2005
      • 39151

      #52
      Originally posted by theking
      Pigshit.
      Dipshit.


      .

      Comment

      • L-Pink
        working on my tan
        • Mar 2005
        • 39151

        #53
        Lots of questions need answered folks ....... goodnight.


        .

        Comment

        • BFT3K
          Too lazy to set a custom title
          • Dec 2005
          • 10764

          #54
          Originally posted by IllTestYourGirls
          Sort of like the government calling the tea parties racist radicals.....
          No, not at all. The government is not calling the TP anything - it is the media that picks sides in the American Bowel Movement.

          Comment

          • D Ghost
            null
            • May 2006
            • 9820

            #55
            tea party heh... infested and infiltrated recently by Republicans (*cough* *cough* Palin) looking for support.

            Comment

            • fatfoo
              ICQ:649699063
              • Mar 2003
              • 27763

              #56
              Interesting - "Larry Silverstein collected nearly $500 million dollars in insurance as a result of the collapse of Building 7."
              Send me an email: [email protected]

              Comment

              • SmokeyTheBear
                ►SouthOfHeaven
                • Jun 2004
                • 28609

                #57
                Originally posted by IllTestYourGirls
                From what I read it was a reporter that was there. They tend to be credible. Maybe I'm missing something.
                if a reporter told a reporter about what he overheard , thats hearsay. Did he hear it himself ? unlikely . Lets just suppose larry makes important phone calls to his insurance agent with reporters all around for the sake of the argument. The most someone would be hearing would be half a conversation.
                hatisblack at yahoo.com

                Comment

                • DBS.US
                  Geo Cities
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 11843

                  #58
                  http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
                  Have an unused domain? Make a Free Chaturbate White Label site and be making money tonight

                  Comment

                  • mayabong
                    Confirmed User
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 1952

                    #59
                    Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
                    if a reporter told a reporter about what he overheard , thats hearsay. Did he hear it himself ? unlikely . Lets just suppose larry makes important phone calls to his insurance agent with reporters all around for the sake of the argument. The most someone would be hearing would be half a conversation.
                    People still believe the official story? haha

                    Last edited by mayabong; 04-24-2010, 08:54 PM.
                    Bitcoin Gambling Sites

                    Comment

                    • D Ghost
                      null
                      • May 2006
                      • 9820

                      #60
                      Originally posted by mayabong
                      People still believe the official story? haha

                      interesting....

                      Comment

                      • Rochard
                        Jägermeister Test Pilot
                        • Dec 2001
                        • 75733

                        #61
                        This is some more fucking bullshit story where people with too much free time on their hands are making shit up instead of buying a membership to a porn site.

                        We've gotten to the point where "someone can say something" with zero fucking proof, and everyone believes it.

                        Here's proof:

                        Jeffrey Scott Shapiro states, ?I was working as a journalist for Gannett News at Ground Zero that day, and I remember very clearly what I saw and heard.?

                        ?Shortly before the building collapsed, several NYPD officers and Con-Edison workers told me that Larry Silverstein, the property developer of One World Financial Center was on the phone with his insurance carrier to see if they would authorize the controlled demolition of the building ? since its foundation was already unstable and expected to fall.?


                        Basically, a journalist who was there that day claims that "several people" told him that Silverstein was on the phone with his insurance company. The entire article is based on information that a fucking journalist held onto for years. Newsflash, journalists don't "sit on information" for years. No less do they make claims based on "multiple sources" that they fail to name.

                        Then in the same fucking article you have the following:

                        "?While I was talking with a fellow reporter and several NYPD officers, Building 7 suddenly collapsed, and before it hit the ground, not a single sound emanated from the tower area. There were no explosives; I would have heard them. In fact, I remember that in those few seconds, as the building sank to the ground that I was stunned by how quiet it was,? writes Shapiro in his Fox News hit piece."

                        So you have an article that a journalist sat on for years, which claims "someone told him something" and then in the same article you have a witness that says "There were no explosives were used". This seems to be more and more common.

                        The guy on the Youtube video who "claims he heard a countdown" didn't fucking hear jack shit. He heard nothing. He said he heard a "a transmission from a walkie talkie that a red cross person was holding, where he was holding his hand over the receiver". Further, he says he couldn't make out what was being said (or if anything at all was being said for that matter) but the sound it was making was "pulsed" with a "steady rhythm" which in his view was a "count down". Amid the confusion of that day he heard a muffled transmission that he couldn't make out but he "thinks" it "might have been" a countdown. Seems to me there was a lot of fucking alarms going off that morning; All the firefighters had these personal alarms that were going off in the dust clouds - maybe that "steady sound" he fucking heard was an alarm, and it was being covered up because it was nothing more than annoying.

                        You people are sheep.

                        Herschel Savage
                        Brooklyn, NY

                        Comment

                        • Rochard
                          Jägermeister Test Pilot
                          • Dec 2001
                          • 75733

                          #62
                          Originally posted by mayabong
                          People still believe the official story? haha

                          This video is some more shit. It says "buildings do not do this spontaneously" which is very true. But they do fall like that when hit with a massive fucking airplane.

                          This video tries to tell you that "buildings only fall like this" when intentionally brought down. That's not true. Buildings fall like that when they collapse, which is exactly what happened with the two towers. Plain and simple.
                          Herschel Savage
                          Brooklyn, NY

                          Comment

                          • mayabong
                            Confirmed User
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 1952

                            #63
                            Originally posted by Rochard
                            This video is some more shit. It says "buildings do not do this spontaneously" which is very true. But they do fall like that when hit with a massive fucking airplane.

                            This video tries to tell you that "buildings only fall like this" when intentionally brought down. That's not true. Buildings fall like that when they collapse, which is exactly what happened with the two towers. Plain and simple.
                            Thats the tower that wasn't hit by a plane retard...
                            Bitcoin Gambling Sites

                            Comment

                            • BFT3K
                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                              • Dec 2005
                              • 10764

                              #64
                              Originally posted by Rochard
                              This video is some more shit. It says "buildings do not do this spontaneously" which is very true. But they do fall like that when hit with a massive fucking airplane.
                              That building was not hit by an airplane.

                              Comment

                              • BFT3K
                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                • Dec 2005
                                • 10764

                                #65
                                You beat me by a hair.

                                Comment

                                • SmokeyTheBear
                                  ►SouthOfHeaven
                                  • Jun 2004
                                  • 28609

                                  #66
                                  Originally posted by mayabong
                                  People still believe the official story? haha
                                  what does that have to do with what i said and you quoted ?

                                  i never said anything about the validity of the "official story".

                                  Just to refresh your memory i was discussing what hearsay is in relation to the thread topic and larry discussing pulling the building with the insurance agent.

                                  Just to clarify from wikipedia.

                                  "Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience"

                                  The only person that knows who larry was talking to was larry, anyone listening would not only not know who larry was talking to but also only be hearinng half a conversation.
                                  hatisblack at yahoo.com

                                  Comment

                                  • DaddyHalbucks
                                    A freakin' legend!
                                    • Feb 2004
                                    • 18975

                                    #67
                                    All the conspiracy theorists can suck my dick.
                                    Boner Money

                                    Comment

                                    • SmokeyTheBear
                                      ►SouthOfHeaven
                                      • Jun 2004
                                      • 28609

                                      #68
                                      Originally posted by Rochard
                                      This video is some more shit. It says "buildings do not do this spontaneously" which is very true. But they do fall like that when hit with a massive fucking airplane.

                                      This video tries to tell you that "buildings only fall like this" when intentionally brought down. That's not true. Buildings fall like that when they collapse, which is exactly what happened with the two towers. Plain and simple.
                                      it's silly to really be on either side of the fence with too much passion on this matter as using examples just don't cut it as we don't really have anything close to compare.

                                      No large steel office buildings have ever collapsed period from fires,let alone at near free fall speeds, none, zero, ever.

                                      but... i bet a cow has never accidently ran into a wood chipper. If my cow did and i told you about it, if your friends say it couldn't of happened because it hasn't happened before is factually wrong.

                                      With all the money and griping and insurance by now we should have just rebuilt a duplicate building 7 and tried to replicate the results to make everyone happy.
                                      hatisblack at yahoo.com

                                      Comment

                                      • SmokeyTheBear
                                        ►SouthOfHeaven
                                        • Jun 2004
                                        • 28609

                                        #69
                                        Originally posted by DaddyHalbucks
                                        All the conspiracy theorists can suck my dick.
                                        That's discrimination!!!!

                                        Besides everyone should know by now the "official story" and every theory yet ARE ALL based on a conspiracy, i have yet to hear anyone with a "lone terrorist" theory. Are you saying you believe 9/11 was planned, funded and carried out by one man alone ? this i wanna hear..
                                        hatisblack at yahoo.com

                                        Comment

                                        • directfiesta
                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                          • Oct 2002
                                          • 30135

                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by Rochard
                                          This is some more fucking bullshit story where people with too much free time on their hands are making shit up instead of buying a membership to a porn site.

                                          We've gotten to the point where "someone can say something" with zero fucking proof, and everyone believes it.

                                          Here's proof:

                                          Jeffrey Scott Shapiro states, ?I was working as a journalist for Gannett News at Ground Zero that day, and I remember very clearly what I saw and heard.?

                                          ?Shortly before the building collapsed, several NYPD officers and Con-Edison workers told me that Larry Silverstein, the property developer of One World Financial Center was on the phone with his insurance carrier to see if they would authorize the controlled demolition of the building ? since its foundation was already unstable and expected to fall.?


                                          Basically, a journalist who was there that day claims that "several people" told him that Silverstein was on the phone with his insurance company. The entire article is based on information that a fucking journalist held onto for years. Newsflash, journalists don't "sit on information" for years. No less do they make claims based on "multiple sources" that they fail to name.

                                          Then in the same fucking article you have the following:

                                          "?While I was talking with a fellow reporter and several NYPD officers, Building 7 suddenly collapsed, and before it hit the ground, not a single sound emanated from the tower area. There were no explosives; I would have heard them. In fact, I remember that in those few seconds, as the building sank to the ground that I was stunned by how quiet it was,? writes Shapiro in his Fox News hit piece."

                                          So you have an article that a journalist sat on for years, which claims "someone told him something" and then in the same article you have a witness that says "There were no explosives were used". This seems to be more and more common.

                                          The guy on the Youtube video who "claims he heard a countdown" didn't fucking hear jack shit. He heard nothing. He said he heard a "a transmission from a walkie talkie that a red cross person was holding, where he was holding his hand over the receiver". Further, he says he couldn't make out what was being said (or if anything at all was being said for that matter) but the sound it was making was "pulsed" with a "steady rhythm" which in his view was a "count down". Amid the confusion of that day he heard a muffled transmission that he couldn't make out but he "thinks" it "might have been" a countdown. Seems to me there was a lot of fucking alarms going off that morning; All the firefighters had these personal alarms that were going off in the dust clouds - maybe that "steady sound" he fucking heard was an alarm, and it was being covered up because it was nothing more than annoying.

                                          You people are sheep.

                                          Sheeps went to war on " no proof " ...
                                          I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                          But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                          Comment

                                          • DWB
                                            Registered User
                                            • Jul 2003
                                            • 31779

                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by theking
                                            Never executed...are the keywords. Ever heard of brainstorming and the methodology used to brainstorm. The US has think tanks...civilian and military...that propose all types of plans and contingency plans...verging from the ludicrous onward. Get over it.
                                            4 words: Gulf of Tonkin Incident

                                            Comment

                                            • DWB
                                              Registered User
                                              • Jul 2003
                                              • 31779

                                              #72
                                              Originally posted by dav3
                                              So if Tower 7 was already rigged with controlled explosives, one would assume that the other two towers were rigged the same way.
                                              Logic doesn't belong here. Get out.

                                              Comment

                                              • theking
                                                Nice Kitty
                                                • Sep 2002
                                                • 21053

                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy
                                                4 words: Gulf of Tonkin Incident
                                                I suppose you had a point to make?
                                                When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                Comment

                                                • PornoStar69
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Oct 2008
                                                  • 2069

                                                  #74
                                                  theKing = COINTELPRO Gov agent

                                                  how much they pay you $1000 weekly?
                                                  GFY King?

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Rochard
                                                    Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                    • Dec 2001
                                                    • 75733

                                                    #75
                                                    Originally posted by mayabong
                                                    Thats the tower that wasn't hit by a plane retard...
                                                    Oh jesus fucking Christ, your fucking so fucking stupid it's not funny.

                                                    Two towers fell, billions of tons of concrete and what not, right on the fucking doorstep. According to the article mentioned in this thread the FUCKING BUILDING WAS PHYSICALLY MOVED OFF IT'S FOUNDATION.
                                                    Herschel Savage
                                                    Brooklyn, NY

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Rochard
                                                      Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                      • Dec 2001
                                                      • 75733

                                                      #76
                                                      Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                      Sheeps went to war on " no proof " ...
                                                      Sheeps went to war with the wrong fucking country. Seems to me nearly all of the terrorists came from one fucking country..... And we haven't even looked at them now have we?
                                                      Herschel Savage
                                                      Brooklyn, NY

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Serge Litehead
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Dec 2002
                                                        • 5190

                                                        #77
                                                        Rochard, what do you think about this video? BS?

                                                        Originally posted by mayabong
                                                        what r firefighters saying?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • theking
                                                          Nice Kitty
                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                          • 21053

                                                          #78
                                                          Originally posted by holograph
                                                          Rochard, what do you think about this video? BS?
                                                          One man's opinion...zero proof...end of story.
                                                          When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                          FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Serge Litehead
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Dec 2002
                                                            • 5190

                                                            #79
                                                            Originally posted by theking
                                                            One man's opinion...zero proof...end of story.
                                                            destroying evidence in a crime scene is normal by your standards?

                                                            Comment

                                                            • react
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Sep 2003
                                                              • 673

                                                              #80
                                                              When he said "pull it" he as referring to his finger.

                                                              You guys are fucking retarded.
                                                              --
                                                              react

                                                              Comment

                                                              • mayabong
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Jan 2010
                                                                • 1952

                                                                #81
                                                                Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                Oh jesus fucking Christ, your fucking so fucking stupid it's not funny.

                                                                Two towers fell, billions of tons of concrete and what not, right on the fucking doorstep. According to the article mentioned in this thread the FUCKING BUILDING WAS PHYSICALLY MOVED OFF IT'S FOUNDATION.
                                                                As previously pointed out in another post, WTC 5 had one of the buildings fall right on it, burned for hours and still had to be demolished... it doesn't matter what anyone shows you though. The good thing about this is... about 5 years ago, people like you were the majority, now if you look there are only a couple people who just can't accept this. Face it you been lied to, they've done it before they'll do it again.
                                                                Bitcoin Gambling Sites

                                                                Comment

                                                                • dav3
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • May 2007
                                                                  • 7348

                                                                  #82
                                                                  Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                  Sheeps went to war with the wrong fucking country. Seems to me nearly all of the terrorists came from one fucking country..... And we haven't even looked at them now have we?
                                                                  Isn't it amazing that being a Bush biz partner can buy you amnesty in Saudi land?
                                                                  Webmasters :: Juicy Ads :: ACWM :: Crak Revenue :: Money Tree

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • SuzzyQ
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Dec 2006
                                                                    • 1557

                                                                    #83
                                                                    Originally posted by mayabong
                                                                    As previously pointed out in another post, WTC 5 had one of the buildings fall right on it, burned for hours and still had to be demolished... it doesn't matter what anyone shows you though. The good thing about this is... about 5 years ago, people like you were the majority, now if you look there are only a couple people who just can't accept this. Face it you been lied to, they've done it before they'll do it again.
                                                                    Have you ever been to the WTC site before 9/11?

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • mayabong
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Jan 2010
                                                                      • 1952

                                                                      #84
                                                                      Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                      Sheeps went to war with the wrong fucking country. Seems to me nearly all of the terrorists came from one fucking country..... And we haven't even looked at them now have we?
                                                                      Wrong Country Indeed, what about these events of 9/11?

                                                                      Bitcoin Gambling Sites

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • mayabong
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jan 2010
                                                                        • 1952

                                                                        #85
                                                                        Originally posted by SuzzyQ
                                                                        Have you ever been to the WTC site before 9/11?
                                                                        Yes 2 times
                                                                        Bitcoin Gambling Sites

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • PornoStar69
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Oct 2008
                                                                          • 2069

                                                                          #86
                                                                          **NLE 2010 - National Planning Scenario #1: NUCLEAR DETONATION IN MAJOR CITY!!!

                                                                          http://info.publicintelligence.net/1...9011351952.PDF

                                                                          They have been planning this one for over a year.

                                                                          Key DC leadership will be at secret locations during the "exercise".

                                                                          Eagle Horizon 2010 will start on Monday, 17 May 2010 and end on Wednesday, 19 May 2010.

                                                                          Do you think they are running these drills for fun?

                                                                          National Level Exercise 2010 (NLE 10) Exercise Overview
                                                                          http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/
                                                                          8 August 2009 5 Comments

                                                                          DHS/FEMA Headquarters
                                                                          Nathan Rodgers
                                                                          National Exercise Division
                                                                          Draft
                                                                          For Official Use Only
                                                                          November 2008

                                                                          Overview

                                                                          Tier 1 National Level Exercise as per the National Exercise Program

                                                                          Domestic Terrorism focused

                                                                          Guided by National Planning Scenario #1: Nuclear Detonation

                                                                          Fully Integrated with Eagle Horizon 2010 (continuity exercise)

                                                                          FEMA Region VIII and FEMA Region IX, select State and Local jurisdictions (venues) and the National Capital Region (NCR)

                                                                          Multi-day (4-5), operations-based exercise scheduled for May 2010


                                                                          Related posts:

                                                                          DHS Coordinates National Level Exercise to Prevent Terrorist Attacks with Federal, State, Local Tribal, Private Sector, and International Partners

                                                                          National Exercise Program Overview

                                                                          Top Officials (TOPOFF) Exercise Overview Brief

                                                                          FEMA Region X Multi-year Training and Exercise Plan 2010-2014

                                                                          National Continuity Programs



                                                                          5 Comments »
                                                                          PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place in May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY « The LABVIRUS.COM Bl said:

                                                                          [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                          # 8 February 2010 at 3:22 pm
                                                                          PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place in May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY « The LABVIRUS.COM Bl said:

                                                                          [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                          # 8 February 2010 at 3:24 pm
                                                                          PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One Interagency NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place in May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY « The LAB said:

                                                                          [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                          # 8 February 2010 at 3:25 pm
                                                                          PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One Interagency NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place just after 15 May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY &laq said:

                                                                          [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                          # 8 February 2010 at 3:27 pm
                                                                          NLE10 National Level Exercise 2010 conduct to begin mid-May including FEMA regions XVIII and IX « LABVIRUS.COM said:

                                                                          [...] NLE10 National Level Exercise 2010 conduct to begin mid-May including FEMA regions XVIII and IX http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                          GFY King?

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • PornoStar69
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Oct 2008
                                                                            • 2069

                                                                            #87
                                                                            Does the nation need a national level exercise program?
                                                                            http://www.hlswatch.com/2010/04/06/d...rcise-program/
                                                                            Filed under: Preparedness and Response ? by Christopher Bellavita on April 6, 2010

                                                                            Imagine a 7.8 Richter Scale earthquake near St. Louis, MO, on the New Madrid fault line. Assume the earthquake causes extreme damage in 8 states along the Mississippi River. This includes over 89,000 dead, nearly half a million people injured, more than 5 million people homeless, loss of numerous bridges crossing the Mississippi, as well as destruction of major oil, gasoline, and natural gas pipelines that serve much of the Eastern Seaboard.

                                                                            One might think this high consequence (low probability or high probability ? take your pick) event would make a natural subject for a national level homeland security exercise.

                                                                            Maybe not.

                                                                            Perhaps there are some extreme homeland security events ? call them catastrophes ? where the value of exercising top officials is more symbolic than sensible.

                                                                            ?????????????????-

                                                                            The Vacation Lane Blog ? written by William Cumming (a frequent writer in hlswatch) ? began its internet life on Saturday with commentary about the postponement of the national level exercise program. http://vlg338.blogspot.com/2010/04/s...paredness.html

                                                                            Cumming argues in ?The Sinews of Preparedness,?

                                                                            ? this Administration, like all before it, fails to understand that the sinews of preparedness are built with exercises, from table tops to full scale exercises, and with the personnel including appointees that will actually be called on to run the civil domestic crisis management system or be in the chain of command for civil crisis events. Failure to be prepared only makes it more likely that military dominated organizations, which tend to ad hoc despite extraordinary funding, will drive the crisis response with huge implications for the civil sector and federalism.? [They are scared of the people's army, of an informed public, of constitutional well trained people.]

                                                                            On its face, the author?s recommendation seems sensible: training and exercises will make for a more effective response when something real happens.

                                                                            Why should anyone believe that claim?

                                                                            Aristotle said, ?Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.?

                                                                            One need look no further for evidence about the correctness of this belief than the professional experiences of police, fire fighters, emergency medical professionals, emergency managers, and other responders.

                                                                            The lessons from Aristotle, Mr. Cumming, and first responder experiences may be true for ?normal? disasters ? earthquakes, hurricanes, fires, floods, tornadoes, and so on.

                                                                            I wonder if that truth about exercise has much value when it comes to getting ?top officials? ready for catastrophes.

                                                                            ?????????????????-

                                                                            For FEMA/DHS, a catastrophe is any incident ?that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions.?

                                                                            Catastrophes, as a colleague has written ?are the nightmare scenarios that can bring the nation to its knees.?

                                                                            There do not appear to have been that many catastrophes in the past half century of our history.

                                                                            The colleague I just mentioned recently completed a study of the federal part of the post 9/11 emergency planning and response system. As a tangential part of his work, he noted there have been around 1900 presidential disaster declarations since 1953. He found only four of the 1900 events were (definitional) catastrophes: Three Mile Island, and Hurricanes Hugo, Andrew and Katrina.

                                                                            You might add a few more to his list ? like 9/11/01 in New York City, Arlington, and Shanksville. But the number of catastrophes remains small.

                                                                            My colleague found that federal agencies played major ?supporting? roles in all of those catastrophes. But governors ? maybe a mayor or two ? always retained control of what was going on in their jurisdictions.

                                                                            It?s my understanding (aided by experiences with early versions of TOPOFF) that national level exercises have some play for state and local officials, but for the most part, the general intention of the exercises is to:

                                                                            Support U.S. Government Officers? preparation for managing national crises, and accountability of those who support them.

                                                                            I have no idea what role training and exercising state, city, or federal officials ? especially political officials ? played in successful or unsuccessful catastrophic response. I?ve looked for data that sheds light on the utility of exercising for catastrophes, but so far I?ve come up largely empty. (There is the 2004 ?Hurricane Pam? exercise example for New Orleans, of course. But that mostly suggests preparedness requires something more than exercises.)

                                                                            My understanding is the average tenure for a federal political appointee ? a top official ? is between 18 months and 2 years. How does one train and exercise federal appointed and elected officials for an incident where there are ?over 89,000 dead, nearly half a million people injured, more than 5 million people homeless??

                                                                            Is there any evidence that justifies spending money on those officials for such training and exercises?

                                                                            Since 2005, the federal government has spent more than 200 million dollars on national level exercises. Have those expenditures come anywhere close to providing commensurate benefits? If those data are not available, could the 200 million have been spent on some other homeland security-related activities, including local exercises, that might have increased the nation?s preparedness?

                                                                            I suspect those are largely rhetorical questions, lost somewhere inside the conventional wisdom that worships any homeland security training and exercise as an unquestioningly good thing.

                                                                            ?????????????????-

                                                                            One of the homeland security goals described in the Quadrennial Homeland Security Review is to:

                                                                            Foster Innovative Approaches and Solutions Through Leading-Edge Science and Technology: Ensure scientifically informed analysis and decisions are coupled to innovative and effective technological solutions.

                                                                            I like the sound of that goal. It says science matters.

                                                                            I like the objectives of the goal even more:
                                                                            Scientifically study threats and vulnerabilities: Pursue a rigorous scientific understanding of current and future threats to homeland security and the possible means to their prevention and mitigation.
                                                                            Develop innovative approaches and effective solutions: Encourage and enable innovative approaches

                                                                            Both objectives suggest we should look to science to validate our prevention and mitigation efforts, and to lead the nation toward new ways to think about what we do under the banner of homeland security.
                                                                            GFY King?

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • PornoStar69
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Oct 2008
                                                                              • 2069

                                                                              #88
                                                                              http://www.emergencymgmt.com/news/Na...sefulness.html
                                                                              Federal and state emergency mangers are debating whether or not to continue the National Level Exercise series. According to The Washington Post, the Obama administration canceled an exercise centered on a simulated nuclear attack on Las Vegas after Sen. Harry Reid, backed by casino and business interests, said it would hurt the region?s economy.

                                                                              In response to a FEMA proposal to scale back an exercise simulating an earthquake in the New Madrid Seismic Zone scheduled for next year, Kentucky Emergency Manager John W. Heltzel, who is also chairman of the Central United States Earthquake Consortium, said the eight states involved in planning for that exercise pledged to go ahead as planned.

                                                                              FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate and U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano want to restore the element of surprise to exercises testing national preparedness.


                                                                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                                              Emergency Management News
                                                                              National Preparedness Task Force Members Announced
                                                                              http://revelation2012.blogspot.com/2...-2010-nle.html
                                                                              by News Report on April 08, 2010

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                                                                              U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced the members of a task force charged with examining ways to make communities more resilient. This task force is composed of 35 members, mostly emergency management and homeland security practitioners from all levels of government.

                                                                              Congress asked for the formation of the Preparedness Task Force along with the 2010 DHS Appropriations Act, making it responsible for "making recommendations for all levels of government regarding disaster and emergency guidance and policy, federal grants; and federal requirements ? with an emphasis on identifying preparedness policies, guidelines and grant programs that should be updated and recommending paths forward to improve the nation?s collective capabilities for preparing for disasters,? according to a DHS news release.

                                                                              The task force expects to deliver its recommendations in September 2010.

                                                                              A list of the members of the task force and more information can be found in this DHS news release.


                                                                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                                                              Secretary Napolitano Announces Preparedness Task Force Members
                                                                              http://www.dhs.gov/ynews/releases/pr_1270649859370.shtm
                                                                              Release Date: April 7, 2010

                                                                              For Immediate Release
                                                                              Office of the Press Secretary
                                                                              Contact: 202-282-8010

                                                                              Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Janet Napolitano today announced the formation of the local, state, tribal, and federal Preparedness Task Force?a council of experts charged with assessing the state of the nation?s disaster preparedness and making recommendations to Secretary Napolitano about ways to build resiliency in communities across America.

                                                                              ?Enhancing preparedness across our nation requires close collaboration between all levels of government,? said Secretary Napolitano. ?The recommendations of this Task Force?comprised of emergency management and homeland security experts from states, cities and tribes across the country?will help guide our ongoing efforts to ensure the resilience of communities throughout the nation.?

                                                                              The Task Force is comprised of 35 members of local, state and tribal governments?many of whom have also served within federal government?offering a diverse cross-section of experience in homeland security and emergency management missions. The Task Force will also engage Congressional partners, as well as the private sector and non-governmental and development organizations through a variety of outreach activities.

                                                                              The Conference Report accompanying the 2010 DHS Appropriations Act called for a Task Force responsible for ?making recommendations for all levels of government regarding: disaster and emergency guidance and policy; federal grants; and federal requirements??with an emphasis on identifying preparedness policies, guidelines and grant programs that should be updated and recommending paths forward to improve the nation?s collective capabilities for preparing for disasters.

                                                                              The Task Force will conduct regular meetings and expects to deliver recommendations in September 2010.

                                                                              Local, State, Tribal, and Federal Preparedness Task Force Members

                                                                              Charles H. Ada II, Administrator, Guam Office of Civil Defense

                                                                              Karen Baker, Secretary of Service and Volunteering, State of California

                                                                              John Cary Bittick, Sheriff, Monroe County Sheriff's Office, Georgia

                                                                              Dave Bunce, Fire Chief, Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community Fire Department, Arizona

                                                                              Jeffery C. Cash, Fire Chief and Emergency Manager, City of Cherryville Fire Department, North Carolina

                                                                              Salvatore Cassano, Commissioner, City of New York Fire Department

                                                                              Nicholas Crossley, Director, Johnson County, Kansas, Emergency Management and Homeland Security

                                                                              Edward F. Davis, Commissioner, City of Boston Police Department

                                                                              Robert DesRosier, Director, Blackfeet Nation Homeland Security Program and Emergency Services Program, Montana

                                                                              Patricia Dukes, Chief of Emergency Medical Services, City and County of Honolulu, Hawaii

                                                                              Brigadier General Donald P. Dunbar, Adjutant General, State of Wisconsin

                                                                              Angela English, Executive Director, Texas Governor's Committee on People with Disabilities

                                                                              Charley English, Director and Homeland Security Advisor, Georgia Emergency Management Agency, State of Georgia

                                                                              Anthony H. Griffin, County Executive, Fairfax County, Virginia

                                                                              Dwight E. Henninger, Chief of Police, Town of Vail Police Department, Colorado

                                                                              James D. Himes, Assistant Director, Metro Nashville and Davidson County Department of Public Works, Tennessee

                                                                              Hubert Douglas Hoell, Jr., Director, North Carolina Division of Emergency Management, State of North Carolina

                                                                              Jeffrey D. Johnson, Fire Chief/Administrator, Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue, Oregon

                                                                              Hans Kallam, Director, Colorado Division of Emergency Management, State of Colorado

                                                                              Ron Lane, Director, County of San Diego Office of Emergency Services, California

                                                                              Joseph Laporte, Public Safety Director, Little River Band of Ottawa Indians, Michigan

                                                                              John. W. Ledbetter, Executive Director, Mississippi Office of Homeland Security, State of Mississippi

                                                                              Pamela L?Heureux, Director of Emergency Management, Waterboro, Maine

                                                                              John Madden, Director, Alaska Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management, State of Alaska

                                                                              Raymond Orozco, Chief of Staff, City of Chicago, Illinois

                                                                              Jim Page, Executive Director, Illinois Law Enforcement Alarm System

                                                                              Kerry Pettingill, Director, Oklahoma Office of Homeland Security

                                                                              Mary Selecky, Secretary, Washington State Department of Health

                                                                              David Taylor, State Chief Information Officer and Executive Director, Agency for Enterprise Information Technology, Florida

                                                                              Lyda Ann Thomas, Mayor, City of Galveston, Texas

                                                                              MaryAnn E. Tierney, Deputy Managing Director for Emergency Management, City of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

                                                                              Alan Dennis (A.D.) Vickery, Assistant Chief of Risk Management, Seattle Fire Department, Washington

                                                                              John Wageman, State Hazard Mitigation Officer, Iowa Homeland Security and Emergency Management Division, State of Iowa

                                                                              John Wheeler, Cabinet Secretary, New Mexico Department of Homeland Security and Emergency Management, State of New Mexico

                                                                              Thomas Wyss, State Senator, Indiana State Senate
                                                                              GFY King?

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • PornoStar69
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Oct 2008
                                                                                • 2069

                                                                                #89
                                                                                Saturday, April 3, 2010
                                                                                The Sinews of Preparedness
                                                                                http://vlg338.blogspot.com/2010/04/s...paredness.html

                                                                                Recently, many MSM article and blog postings have discussed the postponement of NLE V [National Level Exercise] by the Administration and DHS. There are enormus implications that can be implied by this postponement. The most critical is that this Administration, like all before it, fails to understand that the sinews of preparedness are built with exercises, from table tops to full scale exercises, and with the personnel including appointees that will actually be called on to run the civil domestic crisis management system or be in the chain of command for civil crisis events. Failure to be prepared only makes it more likely that military dominated organizations, which tend to ad hoc despite extraordinary funding, will drive the crisis response with huge implications for the civil sector and federalism. Essentially, NO administration since the dawn of the nuclear age has created an adequate White House Domestic Civil response organization and chain of command. During the days of the Federal Civil Defense Program created by Public Law 920 of the 81st Congress [repealed in 1994] the reality was no civil domestic crisis response planning and preparedness just turn it over to the military post attack. This was UnConstitutional, lazy, and not in keeping with the democractic (actually US is a Republic) traditions of our society. The nuclear priesthood enjoyed their power in their secret temples and had no one to watch over what they were planning. See Plans D and Other than D which died on the formation of FEMA in 1979! If accomplishing creation of such a system is just is too difficult from a public administration standpoint the day in which the ambitious military takes over civil crisis management and response comes that much closer.
                                                                                Posted by The Vacation Lane Group at 11:26 AM

                                                                                Labels: military/Civil relationships

                                                                                1 comments:
                                                                                El Gallego said...

                                                                                There are several points that may have been overlooked in any analysis of recent events concerning the National Level Exercise program:

                                                                                1) The SECDHS (Napolitano) was Governor of Arizona and had a very negative impression of the exercise series as a result of TOPOFF 3 (the NLE predecessor).

                                                                                2) The preparedness planning effort at FEMA for the New Madrid Seismic Zone scenario is behind schedule. In fact, the scenario for 2010 was to have been 'New Madrid' but was postponed to 2011 due to planning shortfalls.

                                                                                3) The exercise planning effort itself at FEMA is lackluster. The planners are great at having meetings which are nothing more than 'dog and pony' briefing sessions with little or no interaction on the part of planners from other agencies.

                                                                                Logged

                                                                                2010 (NLE 10) -- May 17-21, 2010

                                                                                DRILL REPORT: National Level Exercise 2010 (NLE 10) -- May 17-21, 2010

                                                                                NLE 09 which occurred at the end of July last year, had an unprecedented amount of military movement and training for martial law. This year's National Level Exercise will be fully integrated with Eagle Horizon 2010, a drill focusing on continuity of government (COG--also known as Rex 84, and the implementation of PDD-51). NLE 09 did not have this added component.

                                                                                -- Silver

                                                                                When: May 17-21, 2010

                                                                                Where: FEMA Region 8 (Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah), FEMA Region 9 (California, Nevada, Arizona), National Capital Region

                                                                                Who: FEMA, DHS, Department of Transportation, NORTHCOM, NORAD

                                                                                Contracted Companies: L3 Communications, Bridgeborn, Ogilvy Public Relations

                                                                                Scenario: An improvised nuclear device detonation in a major US city. This is a "domestic terrorism" focused drill. Response to such destruction and COG plans enacted. Summary of NLE 10 here. Summary of Eagle Horizon 2009 (for reference) here.


                                                                                Dates are from the Department of Transportation website, quoted below. All other sites merely say "May 2010." Dates are always subject to change, etc.


                                                                                Training and Exercise Program

                                                                                Summary: The program objective is to sustain a robust training and exercise program based upon all-hazards emergency management to meet all preparedness, response, and recovery needs, including those for COOP/COG and the regional emergency transportation program. This program integrates the requirements of the National Response Framework (NRF) and the National Incident Management System (NIMS) into DOT policies, plans, and programs. Additionally, it tests and validates these documents through training and exercises. The Program Manager participates in the planning, conduct and evaluation of inter-agency exercises and prepares DOT representatives (up to and including the Secretary, as appropriate) for participation in major exercises. The Program Manager also represents the Department at all interagency training and exercise meetings and the Homeland Security Council (HSC) Domestic Readiness Group (DRG) Exercise and Evaluation Sub-Policy Coordination Committee (E & E Sub-PCC) meetings. Lastly the Program Manager is assisting in the development of DOT training requirements for the new National Security Professional Development program (under Executive Order 13434) and Reconstruction/Stabilization training requirements of National Security Presidential Decision (NSPD - 44).

                                                                                Partner Agencies: Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and other Federal departments and agencies.

                                                                                Stakeholders: Operating Administrations, DOT Senior Officials, and Interagency community.

                                                                                Major Projects:

                                                                                * Key Exercises and Events for 2010
                                                                                o Principal Level Exercise 4-09: October 21, 2009; Major Earth Quake in San Francisco, CA.
                                                                                o Tier II Support to Vigilant Shield Exercise: Early November, 2009; Support to Canadian 2010 Winter Olympic Games
                                                                                o Principal Level Exercise 1-10: November 10, 2009 (Asst Sec) and December 4, 2009 (S-1); Support for the 2010 Winter Olympics
                                                                                o SONS 2010: March 22-24, 2010; Spill of National Significance Exercise
                                                                                o National Level Seminar II: April 7, 2010; Recovery from an Improvised Nuclear Device – IND – Attack
                                                                                o Tier II Support to Exercise Liberty RadEX (EPA): April 26-30, 2010; Recovery from an Radiological Dispersal Device – RDD – in Philadelphia, PA
                                                                                o Principal Level Exercise 2-10; April 22, 2010; Response to an Improvised Nuclear Device - IND
                                                                                o Principal Level Exercise 3-10: June 17, 2010; Recovery from an Improvised Nuclear Device-IND- Attack
                                                                                o National Level Exercise 1-10 and Eagle Horizon 10; May 17-21, 2010: Improvised Nuclear Device-IND and Continuity deployment exercise
                                                                                o Principal Level Exercise 4-10: July, 2010: Topic to be Assigned by the National Security Staff
                                                                                o Cyber Storm III: September 2010; Cyber attack on government computer networks and national infrastructure control systems

                                                                                * Key Training Focus for 2010
                                                                                o National Response Framework (NRF)
                                                                                o National Incident Management System (NIMS)
                                                                                o National Security Professional Development (Training and Education)
                                                                                o DOT Emergency Response Team (ERT) Specialized Training
                                                                                o Reconstruction and Stabilization (R&S)
                                                                                o Continuity of Operations Planning and Government (COOP/COG)
                                                                                o National and DOT Pandemic Influenza Plan H1N1 control procedures
                                                                                o DOT Regional Emergency Transportation Coordinator and Representative Training (RETCO and RETREP)
                                                                                o Specialized Training for Transportation Intelligence Analysts

                                                                                Logged
                                                                                GFY King?

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • mayabong
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Jan 2010
                                                                                  • 1952

                                                                                  #90
                                                                                  Originally posted by PornoStar69
                                                                                  **NLE 2010 - National Planning Scenario #1: NUCLEAR DETONATION IN MAJOR CITY!!!

                                                                                  http://info.publicintelligence.net/1...9011351952.PDF

                                                                                  They have been planning this one for over a year.

                                                                                  Key DC leadership will be at secret locations during the "exercise".

                                                                                  Eagle Horizon 2010 will start on Monday, 17 May 2010 and end on Wednesday, 19 May 2010.

                                                                                  Do you think they are running these drills for fun?

                                                                                  National Level Exercise 2010 (NLE 10) Exercise Overview
                                                                                  http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/
                                                                                  8 August 2009 5 Comments

                                                                                  DHS/FEMA Headquarters
                                                                                  Nathan Rodgers
                                                                                  National Exercise Division
                                                                                  Draft
                                                                                  For Official Use Only
                                                                                  November 2008

                                                                                  Overview

                                                                                  Tier 1 National Level Exercise as per the National Exercise Program

                                                                                  Domestic Terrorism focused

                                                                                  Guided by National Planning Scenario #1: Nuclear Detonation

                                                                                  Fully Integrated with Eagle Horizon 2010 (continuity exercise)

                                                                                  FEMA Region VIII and FEMA Region IX, select State and Local jurisdictions (venues) and the National Capital Region (NCR)

                                                                                  Multi-day (4-5), operations-based exercise scheduled for May 2010


                                                                                  Related posts:

                                                                                  DHS Coordinates National Level Exercise to Prevent Terrorist Attacks with Federal, State, Local Tribal, Private Sector, and International Partners

                                                                                  National Exercise Program Overview

                                                                                  Top Officials (TOPOFF) Exercise Overview Brief

                                                                                  FEMA Region X Multi-year Training and Exercise Plan 2010-2014

                                                                                  National Continuity Programs



                                                                                  5 Comments »
                                                                                  PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place in May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY « The LABVIRUS.COM Bl said:

                                                                                  [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                                  # 8 February 2010 at 3:22 pm
                                                                                  PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place in May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY « The LABVIRUS.COM Bl said:

                                                                                  [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                                  # 8 February 2010 at 3:24 pm
                                                                                  PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One Interagency NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place in May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY « The LAB said:

                                                                                  [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                                  # 8 February 2010 at 3:25 pm
                                                                                  PDF DOWNLOAD Tier One Interagency NLE (National Level Exercise) to take place just after 15 May 2010 ? FEMA Regions 8 & 9 ? West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington) ? where the scenario is a NUCLEAR DETONATION IN A MAJOR CITY &laq said:

                                                                                  [...] February 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm (Uncategorized) http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                                  # 8 February 2010 at 3:27 pm
                                                                                  NLE10 National Level Exercise 2010 conduct to begin mid-May including FEMA regions XVIII and IX « LABVIRUS.COM said:

                                                                                  [...] NLE10 National Level Exercise 2010 conduct to begin mid-May including FEMA regions XVIII and IX http://publicintelligence.net/nation...cise-overview/ [...]
                                                                                  Yeah stay away from any city with these drills going on.. These drills are there to confuse people working, that aren't in on it. 9/11 had many drills going on that day, with false blips put on the radar screens, they couldn't tell real hijacks from fake ones.

                                                                                  And of course the drills on 7/7 were even more obvious when this guy came on tv amazed.
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                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • seeandsee
                                                                                    Check SIG!
                                                                                    • Mar 2006
                                                                                    • 50945

                                                                                    #91
                                                                                    no ooooooo osama did it
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                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • SuzzyQ
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Dec 2006
                                                                                      • 1557

                                                                                      #92
                                                                                      Originally posted by mayabong
                                                                                      Yes 2 times
                                                                                      And are you familiar with the physics of the design of the WTC property?

                                                                                      Most of the conspiracy theorists have no concept of the physics design of the WTC property. All the buildings that are/were around the twin towers were built as counter balance for the twin towers. When the 2 towers came down, the counter balance was totally changed. WTC 7 sustained MAJOR structural damage from all that material slamming into it. It was leaning. That video was shown on all the news outlets as well as in the NY Times. WTC 8 had to be brought down. It was damaged beyond repair and it was a major safety issue.

                                                                                      When the planes hit both towers, the weight from the floors above the impact was no longer distributed as it was designed. Add to that that you have fires burning that were over 1000 degrees. NO building material can withstand 1000 degree heat without failing in some sort of way. Again, physics come to play. With the design of the towers radically changed like they were, it was only a matter of time before they came down.

                                                                                      And BTW, My husband worked directly across the street from the WTC. He was in WTC everyday and he knew some people who never made it out.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Ethersync
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Mar 2008
                                                                                        • 5289

                                                                                        #93
                                                                                        Originally posted by mayabong
                                                                                        what r firefighters saying?

                                                                                        Watch this. Everyone.
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                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • dav3
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • May 2007
                                                                                          • 7348

                                                                                          #94
                                                                                          Originally posted by mayabong
                                                                                          Yeah stay away from any city with these drills going on.. These drills are there to confuse people working, that aren't in on it. 9/11 had many drills going on that day, with false blips put on the radar screens, they couldn't tell real hijacks from fake ones.

                                                                                          And of course the drills on 7/7 were even more obvious when this guy came on tv amazed.
                                                                                          brits have always been bad actors
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                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • SmokeyTheBear
                                                                                            ►SouthOfHeaven
                                                                                            • Jun 2004
                                                                                            • 28609

                                                                                            #95
                                                                                            Originally posted by SuzzyQ
                                                                                            NO building material can withstand 1000 degree heat without failing in some sort of way. Again, physics come to play.
                                                                                            i understand your passion , but you dont disprove someone by using false information. The empire state building was hit by a b-25 bomber, with pieces flying the entire way through the building, not only did the building NOT "fall in some way" but it was open for business less than a week later.

                                                                                            Your "theory" can be disproven in any school science lab. A bunson burner burns at well over 1000 degrees, hold some building material like rebar in there and watch how fast it doesn't collapse.

                                                                                            Besides why would building 7 be burning at 1000 degrees ? falling 1000 degree debris from a block over ?
                                                                                            Last edited by SmokeyTheBear; 04-25-2010, 09:36 AM.
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                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • leedsfan
                                                                                              leedsfan
                                                                                              • Jul 2002
                                                                                              • 2564

                                                                                              #96
                                                                                              Originally posted by theking
                                                                                              I am a total sheep and believe everything told to me by my government, especially if it involves the military. I am a bit upset because I was dishonourably discharged from the army for being a bit too gay.
                                                                                              do you believe that any false flag op has ever been perpetrated against the population of the US?
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                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Martin
                                                                                                "Assassins"
                                                                                                • Dec 2001
                                                                                                • 17278

                                                                                                #97
                                                                                                On 9-11 all the laws of physics were put on hold.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • mayabong
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Jan 2010
                                                                                                  • 1952

                                                                                                  #98
                                                                                                  Originally posted by SuzzyQ
                                                                                                  And are you familiar with the physics of the design of the WTC property?

                                                                                                  Most of the conspiracy theorists have no concept of the physics design of the WTC property. All the buildings that are/were around the twin towers were built as counter balance for the twin towers. When the 2 towers came down, the counter balance was totally changed. WTC 7 sustained MAJOR structural damage from all that material slamming into it. It was leaning. That video was shown on all the news outlets as well as in the NY Times. WTC 8 had to be brought down. It was damaged beyond repair and it was a major safety issue.

                                                                                                  When the planes hit both towers, the weight from the floors above the impact was no longer distributed as it was designed. Add to that that you have fires burning that were over 1000 degrees. NO building material can withstand 1000 degree heat without failing in some sort of way. Again, physics come to play. With the design of the towers radically changed like they were, it was only a matter of time before they came down.

                                                                                                  And BTW, My husband worked directly across the street from the WTC. He was in WTC everyday and he knew some people who never made it out.
                                                                                                  I'm not a conspiracy theorist. The official story was put out right after the events happened. All the "facts" were built around the story, and not the other way around.

                                                                                                  LIke I said WTC 5 was heavily damaged, and burned for a long ass time and still had to be demolished. The fact that it (building 7) fell symetrically and that there was molten metal (over 2000 degrees) 6 weeks after still in the basement is a big question mark. I believe the madrid skyscraper is one of the most recent, burned for 20 hours... never collapsed.

                                                                                                  Also the fact that most americans don't even know about building 7, shows the coverup even more.
                                                                                                  Last edited by mayabong; 04-25-2010, 10:06 AM.
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                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • dav3
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • May 2007
                                                                                                    • 7348

                                                                                                    #99
                                                                                                    Originally posted by SuzzyQ
                                                                                                    NO building material can withstand 1000 degree heat without failing in some sort of way.


                                                                                                    Please, before you type, at least google stuff and fact check it before you mindlessly regurgitate it.

                                                                                                    http://www.google.com/search?q=melting+point+of+steel
                                                                                                    http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
                                                                                                    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...point_of_steel
                                                                                                    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/me...als-d_860.html
                                                                                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
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                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • PornoStar69
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Oct 2008
                                                                                                      • 2069

                                                                                                      #100
                                                                                                      SuzzyQ = Gov agent
                                                                                                      GFY King?

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