Chinese boil a cow alive (pic)

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  • HEAT
    Confirmed User
    • Sep 2003
    • 2255
    #1

    Chinese boil a cow alive (pic)

    8th Feb, Dadoong food market, Sun-Yang city.
    a 675kg cow is boiled alive for preparing the chinese new year´s festive dishes.


    Only in China:food-smil
    Last edited by HEAT; 02-10-2007, 01:27 AM.
    254-282-542
    Tags: None
    • notabook
      Confirmed User
      • Apr 2006
      • 9748
      #2
      mmmm... I bet that makes it taste even more delicious :D

        Comment

        • dolorem
          Registered User
          • Aug 2006
          • 73
          #3
          Need a McDonald sign on tha back
          Camille Crimson


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            Comment

            • Damian_Maxcash
              So Fucking Banned
              • Oct 2002
              • 12745
              #4
              I wonder if they would take my mother?.......

              She cant be far off 675KG - and boy, is she a cow!!

                Comment

                • martinsc
                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 27043
                  #5
                  Make Money

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                    • aico
                      Moo Moo Cow
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 14748
                      #6
                      Live cows usually have sking and a face on their heads... just a thought

                        Comment

                        • bobby666
                          boots are my religion
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 21765
                          #7
                          it looks more dead than alive

                            Comment

                            • Vitasoy
                              GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 58202
                              #8
                              I had to look, but glad it wasn't gory.


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                                Comment

                                • scouser
                                  marketer.
                                  • Aug 2006
                                  • 2280
                                  #9
                                  sick fucks. i honestly hope someone does that to them.

                                    Comment

                                    • MikeVega
                                      **Porntrepreneur**
                                      • Jul 2004
                                      • 12788
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by aico
                                      Live cows usually have sking and a face on their heads... just a thought
                                      it looks like that is a pic of them pulling it out. you can see the steam and the skin was cooked off the head.


                                      Mike Vega-ICQ:253868499-AIM:mikeydicevega

                                        Comment

                                        • SomeCreep
                                          :glugglug
                                          • Mar 2003
                                          • 26118
                                          #11
                                          Looks delicious.

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                                            Comment

                                            • SomeCreep
                                              :glugglug
                                              • Mar 2003
                                              • 26118
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by aico
                                              Live cows usually have skin and a face on their heads

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                                                • Damian_Maxcash
                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                  • 12745
                                                  #13
                                                  Joking aside - someone did post the pic but thankfully it has gone.

                                                  I try my hardest not to be racist - but sometimes I just cant help it.

                                                  Fucking sick cunts....

                                                    Comment

                                                    • UKJack
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Jan 2007
                                                      • 139
                                                      #14
                                                      we as "westerners" cook lobster alive whats the difference?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Damian_Maxcash
                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                          • 12745
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by UKJack
                                                          we as "westerners" cook lobster alive whats the difference?

                                                          Actually most restuarants freeze the Lobster first - also if you dont know the difference between a lobster and a cow then you shouldnt be allowed near either of them.


                                                          What a prick.....

                                                            Comment

                                                            • 1215
                                                              Boner Party
                                                              • Aug 2004
                                                              • 2410
                                                              #16
                                                              wtf, its not even in a full pot!

                                                              i like when you cook crabs in boiling water, but you at least fill the pot so they boil quickly.

                                                              poor cow mustve had hot feet all day!

                                                              but...did it make the meat tender?
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                                                                • UKJack
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jan 2007
                                                                  • 139
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                  Actually most restuarants freeze the Lobster first - also if you dont know the difference between a lobster and a cow then you shouldnt be allowed near either of them.


                                                                  What a prick.....
                                                                  What the fuck you talking about are you saying a lobster deserves to be boiler alive more than a cow? they both feel pain, The only conclution I can come to is that you can relate to the pain of a cow more than the pain of a lobster both still feel pain the same and both I presume would prefer not to be boiled alive.

                                                                  Yes some places freeze lobsters first but I have seen live lobsters many times in resturaunts alive, and ask you to select which one you want. What gives a cow a bigger right to not be boiled than a lobster?

                                                                  I don't really care if either are boiled I am just trying to get my point accross as many people are hypocrites

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • DaddyHalbucks
                                                                      A freakin' legend!
                                                                      • Feb 2004
                                                                      • 18975
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Of course! Their civilization is so much older than ours.
                                                                      Boner Money

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Damian_Maxcash
                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                                          • 12745
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by UKJack
                                                                          What the fuck you talking about are you saying a lobster deserves to be boiler alive more than a cow? they both feel pain, The only conclution I can come to is that you can relate to the pain of a cow more than the pain of a lobster both still feel pain the same and both I presume would prefer not to be boiled alive.

                                                                          Yes some places freeze lobsters first but I have seen live lobsters many times in resturaunts alive, and ask you to select which one you want. What gives a cow a bigger right to not be boiled than a lobster?

                                                                          I don't really care if either are boiled I am just trying to get my point accross as many people are hypocrites
                                                                          Can you grasp the concept of seconds and (many) minutes?

                                                                          I wouldnt eat either, but there is a huge difference chucking a frozen lobster into boiling water and slowly lowering a cow into it.

                                                                          Fucking retard.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • DaddyHalbucks
                                                                              A freakin' legend!
                                                                              • Feb 2004
                                                                              • 18975
                                                                              #20
                                                                              They are celebrating all of the successful espionage against the US.

                                                                              They are rejoicing because ---thanks to espionage --American nuclear warheads and American nuclear missiles are now pointed... at the US.

                                                                              Make sure to thank the Clintons for this "technology transfer."
                                                                              Boner Money

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                                                                                • MARVAS
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Feb 2007
                                                                                  • 173
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  They are sick! HAVE MERCY--KILL THE POOR ANIMAL !!! YOU fucking idiots!!!
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                                                                                    • UKJack
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Jan 2007
                                                                                      • 139
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                      Can you grasp the concept of seconds and (many) minutes?

                                                                                      I wouldnt eat either, but there is a huge difference chucking a frozen lobster into boiling water and slowly lowering a cow into it.

                                                                                      Fucking retard.
                                                                                      Lobsters are cooked alive maybe there is a massive time difference on how long if takes for them to die but they still both die in horrible pain, Why is it ok to boil lobsters live and not cows


                                                                                      <insult>
                                                                                      wanker
                                                                                      </insult>
                                                                                      Last edited by UKJack; 02-10-2007, 05:42 AM.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                          Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                                          • 4482
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                          Joking aside - someone did post the pic but thankfully it has gone.

                                                                                          I try my hardest not to be racist - but sometimes I just cant help it.

                                                                                          Fucking sick cunts....


                                                                                          WTF are you talking about ? ? do you actually THINK before you post ??

                                                                                          you should ..

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Damian_Maxcash
                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                              • Oct 2002
                                                                                              • 12745
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by UKJack
                                                                                              Lobsters are cooked alive maybe there is a massive time difference on how long if takes for them to die but they still both die in horrible pain, Why is it ok to boil lobsters live and not cows


                                                                                              <insult>
                                                                                              wanker
                                                                                              </insult>
                                                                                              You really cant see the diffrenece between a frozen lobster and a fully concious cow being slowly lowered into boiling water?

                                                                                              I wont call you a name this time - its my policy not to mock the afflicted.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • notabook
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Apr 2006
                                                                                                  • 9748
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by DaddyHalbucks
                                                                                                  They are celebrating all of the successful espionage against the US.

                                                                                                  They are rejoicing because ---thanks to espionage --American nuclear warheads and American nuclear missiles are now pointed... at the US.

                                                                                                  Make sure to thank the Clintons for this "technology transfer."
                                                                                                  Uh huh. And this one time I got a dollar with the word 'Kreeo' on it, which I assume is some kind of secret messaging system developed by Mossad agent and their Chinese overlords.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Damian_Maxcash
                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                                                                      • 12745
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                                      WTF are you talking about ? ? do you actually THINK before you post ??

                                                                                                      you should ..
                                                                                                      Please explain?

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • Waveu6410
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • Jan 2005
                                                                                                          • 4038
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          That's a fucking crime that needs to be enforced. I guess some countries will continue to breed stupid fucks like that.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • UKJack
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Jan 2007
                                                                                                              • 139
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                                              You really cant see the diffrenece between a frozen lobster and a fully concious cow being slowly lowered into boiling water?

                                                                                                              I wont call you a name this time - its my policy not to mock the afflicted.
                                                                                                              I am merely trying to point out the similarities I was not saying I agree with either (which I don't) but what is accepted as ok by one group of people may not be accepted by others and that works the other way around

                                                                                                              I have to agree yes it would suck to be that cow but we might do things that they find horrible. I bet not one piece of meat was wasted of that cow.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                                                  Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                  • 4482
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                                                  Please explain?


                                                                                                                  hmm you start about racism and how about in your eyes its logic some people are if confronted with such a shocking cultural difference

                                                                                                                  so I tell you look at your own society first and look what you are doing before you judge others

                                                                                                                  and after that you still feel like judging others judge them in the same way you were just looking at your own society

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • donnie
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                      • 1630
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                                                      You really cant see the diffrenece between a frozen lobster and a fully concious cow being slowly lowered into boiling water?

                                                                                                                      I wont call you a name this time - its my policy not to mock the afflicted.
                                                                                                                      Are you REALLY that stupid are you just pretending? He told you there are places that cook lobsters that are NOT frozen but you still compare that cow to frozen lobsters.

                                                                                                                      And there is no difference in cooking a lobster or a cow. They will die equally fast and equally horrible. It takes more time to cook the cow but it will die as soon as its body temperature rises above certain level. If the cow is completely submerged in boiling water it will die as fast as the lobster.

                                                                                                                      So, before you bash other cultures take a look at your own

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Damian_Maxcash
                                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                          • 12745
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                                                          hmm you start about racism and how about in your eyes its logic some people are if confronted with such a shocking cultural difference

                                                                                                                          so I tell you look at your own society first and look what you are doing before you judge others

                                                                                                                          and after that you still feel like judging others judge them in the same way you were just looking at your own society
                                                                                                                          I am fine with cultural difference - but cruelty is cruelty - pain is pain.

                                                                                                                          Myself and many many others dont like the way the Chinese treat animals, (and lets face it, each other) so yes, I am racist.

                                                                                                                          I also have friends who are SE Asian that hate this sort of thing - they are racist as well.

                                                                                                                          As a race many Chinese are barbaric..... and I will not condone that beccause I am scared of being branded a racist.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • Phoenix
                                                                                                                              BACON BACON BACON
                                                                                                                              • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                              • 35475
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              i see noi pic here...i call foul

                                                                                                                              only on gfy can a pic of a cow being cooked for a festival can turn into rampant name calling and screams of racism

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                                                                                                                                • shekinah
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • May 2006
                                                                                                                                  • 8452
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  All animals feel pain when they are boiled alive.. there's nothing to argue with that!

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                                                                                                                                    • Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                                                                      Deputy Chief Command
                                                                                                                                      • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                                      • 4482
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Phoenix
                                                                                                                                      i see noi pic here...i call foul

                                                                                                                                      only on gfy can a pic of a cow being cooked for a festival can turn into rampant name calling and screams of racism

                                                                                                                                      i love this place


                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • s9ann0
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Sep 2001
                                                                                                                                          • 4873
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          seems pretty unesesary to boil it alive

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • DarkJedi
                                                                                                                                              No Refunds Issued.
                                                                                                                                              • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                              • 28301
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by aico
                                                                                                                                              Live cows usually have sking and a face on their heads... just a thought
                                                                                                                                              Lets try submerging you into a boiling oil bath and see how much skin you retain afterwards.

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • websiex
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                  • 987
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                                                                                  I am fine with cultural difference - but cruelty is cruelty - pain is pain.

                                                                                                                                                  Myself and many many others dont like the way the Chinese treat animals, (and lets face it, each other) so yes, I am racist.

                                                                                                                                                  I also have friends who are SE Asian that hate this sort of thing - they are racist as well.

                                                                                                                                                  As a race many Chinese are barbaric..... and I will not condone that beccause I am scared of being branded a racist.
                                                                                                                                                  This is one cow... US companies zap cows to death with electricity... burn the beaks off of chickens... scald pigs alive... burn cows with blow torches alive... keep cows so overweight they can't walk, so they just pull them around alive w/ trucks (same with pigs)... plus a plethora of other cruel methods... yet it is only the chinese? US does it on industrial scales

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • Damian_Maxcash
                                                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                                      • 12745
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by websiex
                                                                                                                                                      This is one cow... US companies zap cows to death with electricity... burn the beaks off of chickens... scald pigs alive... burn cows with blow torches alive... keep cows so overweight they can't walk, so they just pull them around alive w/ trucks (same with pigs)... plus a plethora of other cruel methods... yet it is only the chinese? US does it on industrial scales
                                                                                                                                                      and of course we do the same thing here in the UK - but we would kick up all kinds of stink if we heard that cows were being lowered slowly into vats of boiling water.

                                                                                                                                                      I expect that people in the US woud be just as appalled.

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • escorpio
                                                                                                                                                          doesn't fuck around.
                                                                                                                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                                          • 23486
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Phoenix
                                                                                                                                                          only on gfy can a pic of a cow being cooked for a festival can turn into rampant name calling and screams of racism

                                                                                                                                                          i love this place

                                                                                                                                                          I was just thinking the same thing.
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                                                                                                                                                            • Babaganoosh
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                                                                                                                                                              • Nov 2001
                                                                                                                                                              • 15841
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              I wonder how Chinese taste? Really. There are so many of them that they just might be the solution to the world hunger problem. Besides, the basic principle of supply & demand dictates a lower price on the meat of Chinese citizens (Grade A cuts of course) compared to beef or chicken.

                                                                                                                                                              I'm told that with some fava beans and a nice chianti they are quite good.
                                                                                                                                                              I like pie.

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                                                                                                                                                                • E$_manager
                                                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                  • Apr 2006
                                                                                                                                                                  • 13557
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  I wish i never read this thread.
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                                                                                                                                                                    • King Adam
                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                                      • 5408
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Why is it that I keep seeing threads about cruel shit to animals and they all involve China and Japan.

                                                                                                                                                                      Do they just not care about feelings and suffering?

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                                                                                                                                                                        • the alchemist
                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                          • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                                                          • 3271
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Babaganoosh
                                                                                                                                                                          I wonder how Chinese taste? Really. There are so many of them that they just might be the solution to the world hunger problem. Besides, the basic principle of supply & demand dictates a lower price on the meat of Chinese citizens (Grade A cuts of course) compared to beef or chicken.

                                                                                                                                                                          I'm told that with some fava beans and a nice chianti they are quite good.
                                                                                                                                                                          There's a bird flu advisory on that meat.
                                                                                                                                                                          264 349 400

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                                                                                                                                                                            • teenytricia
                                                                                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                              • Jan 2007
                                                                                                                                                                              • 295
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              thats just sick man ... what pleasure do they get out of that?

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • websiex
                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 987
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                                                                                                                  and of course we do the same thing here in the UK - but we would kick up all kinds of stink if we heard that cows were being lowered slowly into vats of boiling water.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I expect that people in the US woud be just as appalled.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Agree. I was just pointing out there is no reason to make the Chinese look any worse, because most countries do that on an industrial scale.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Plus, I would probably go watch a cow be boiled alive if they did it at my city square, and I bet a lot of other people would too; it is going to happen anyway, so why not see the action/reaction?

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • xenilk
                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jan 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 921
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      That's so cruel
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                                                                                                                                                                                        • Deej
                                                                                                                                                                                          I make pixels work
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 24386
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          First of all ....what ever restaurant you have been to that cooks you frozen lobster...is probably ran by mexicans in the back (non-racial remark, its true) A sizzler or something of equal or lesser quality.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Second...this cow tipping incident IS appauling ... but its just one view...as many have said, we in america do much worse, just not in public. The chinese have no vanity with thier eating rituals. We as Americans are VERY vane.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Third... a cow would take MUCH MUCH longer to kill than a lobster...submergered or not...

                                                                                                                                                                                          fourth... They do it alive for extra flavor....blood rushing...urine releasing...mucous flowing....


                                                                                                                                                                                          The chinese as a nation... have always been a barabaric sort. It really just depends on the eye of the beholder...there are plenty worse right here next door to you...




                                                                                                                                                                                          FUa gra anyone?

                                                                                                                                                                                          how about a nice thanksgiving dinner...read up on this http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/turkey.html

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                                                                                                                                                                                            • Jensen
                                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Apr 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 3790
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              cruel people can be found anywhere, I just read the story about americans Justin and Joshua Moulder:

                                                                                                                                                                                              "A puppy had been seen following them through the complex. First the monsters painted her with paint. Then they picked her up and put her on the counter next to the new oven. he vet said she was afraid and urinated submissively. Next she was "hogtied". Her front legs were taped together with duck tape as well as her back legs. Then her mouth was taped together, but not her nose. She was alive and breathing when the monsters (Jason and Joshua) put her into the oven they had set at 500 degrees. The forensic vet said she was cooked from the inside out. That she did not just die of smoke or heat. She died of "thermal heat" or some term that included thermal, and meant her entire body was cooked."

                                                                                                                                                                                              Atleast they are going away for the next 10 years... humans are crual and where they live doesn't seem to matter...

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • Damian_Maxcash
                                                                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 12745
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Deej
                                                                                                                                                                                                  First of all ....what ever restaurant you have been to that cooks you frozen lobster...is probably ran by mexicans in the back (non-racial remark, its true) A sizzler or something of equal or lesser quality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Second...this cow tipping incident IS appauling ... but its just one view...as many have said, we in america do much worse, just not in public. The chinese have no vanity with thier eating rituals. We as Americans are VERY vane.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Third... a cow would take MUCH MUCH longer to kill than a lobster...submergered or not...

                                                                                                                                                                                                  fourth... They do it alive for extra flavor....blood rushing...urine releasing...mucous flowing....


                                                                                                                                                                                                  The chinese as a nation... have always been a barabaric sort. It really just depends on the eye of the beholder...there are plenty worse right here next door to you...




                                                                                                                                                                                                  FUa gra anyone?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  how about a nice thanksgiving dinner...read up on this http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/turkey.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am with you except point 1. Almost all resturants in the UK and the US 'subdue' lobsters for a few mins in the freezer first.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Its recognised as being the kindest way of dealing them - it aslo makes them more tender as they dont exctrete various chemicals that can ruin the meat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • micker
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 748
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by damian2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Actually most restuarants freeze the Lobster first -
                                                                                                                                                                                                      no they dont, not any decent restuarant, and not any I've worked in. Freezing kills the texture of flesh, its why you buy lobster fresh. if frozen lobster was any good, you wouldnt get your lobster from the tank, you'd get it from the freezer and it would be almost half price.

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