Picked up a new HDV PANASONIC CAMERA !!!

MiniDv is perfect on this camera also. it is like having a DVX - 100 AND a HD cam. I am not sure what you mean by "HDPro tape stock".. the camera does NOT shoot anything HD on tape. Only straight to the P2 cards or a FireStore.

If your client is giving you a Panny HVX to use and he has a G5 just sitting in a box then he will only benefit if he lets you use it.

Sebs

You will be the first to know,it would be great to meet you.

Your very welcome Now on dvx go to the Red section and download a clip be prepared to be blown away. The files are way too big for porn but for film out would be amazing.

Mike, that Panasonic is a great camera, and the ability to shoot true HD to the P2 cards is nice, but for porn purposes it's way overkill for almost every conceivable purpose or client. Most of us are compressing this footage to wmv or quicktime anyway for the end user, so no one is going to notice the difference, put their cock away and say, "hey, I really appreciate that 4:2:2 colorspace!"

And according to the article the Panny does shoot hdv (but not HD) to mini-DV tape.

By the way, editing HDV footage using an intermediate format like I do with Premiere Pro 1.5.1 and the Aspect HD plugin is actually quite easy compared to uncompressed HD. It captures and edits almost exactly like DV. The only pain in the ass is the fact that in my case I have to deinterlace every clip (shot with the FX-1) which takes a long time and then the rendering out to the finished format(s) like wmv or mov takes FOREVER compared to DV! Instead of 25 minutes to 35 minutes to output a 35 minute scene to say, a 640 x 480 wmv at 1500 Kb bitrate, a 1440 x 1080 16x9 wmv at 4300 Kb bitrate, now takes up to 10 hours to encode if you add a watermark to it even with my dual core pc![/QUOTE]


Amen I thought I was the only one that went thru that ...

Three weeks ago I shot with the Z1U and yes it took 8 hours to capture, cut and render a 25 min piece!!!! To top it all off my client had to go out and buy the Cineform Codec just to view the F%$# thing !

Hense my reason for trying out different cameras.

I totally agree this camera would be over kill .. However the client in questionthat bought this gear, wants me shooting for DVD release and isn't conserned with web .. With that said, My main client base is Web.

My Bad I meant DVCpro

Mike, that Panasonic is a great camera, and the ability to shoot true HD to the P2 cards is nice, but for porn purposes it's way overkill for almost every conceivable purpose or client. Most of us are compressing this footage to wmv or quicktime anyway for the end user, so no one is going to notice the difference, put their cock away and say, "hey, I really appreciate that 4:2:2 colorspace!"

And according to the article the Panny does shoot hdv (but not HD) to mini-DV tape.

By the way, editing HDV footage using an intermediate format like I do with Premiere Pro 1.5.1 and the Aspect HD plugin is actually quite easy compared to uncompressed HD. It captures and edits almost exactly like DV. The only pain in the ass is the fact that in my case I have to deinterlace every clip (shot with the FX-1) which takes a long time and then the rendering out to the finished format(s) like wmv or mov takes FOREVER compared to DV! Instead of 25 minutes to 35 minutes to output a 35 minute scene to say, a 640 x 480 wmv at 1500 Kb bitrate, a 1440 x 1080 16x9 wmv at 4300 Kb bitrate, now takes up to 10 hours to encode if you add a watermark to it even with my dual core pc![/QUOTE]

Try exporting your final cut to Mpeg 2 Jim. I do that, then use sorenson to compress to my desired final. Mpeg 2 you can de interlace then also. I use adobe premiere pro 2.0 not sure if 1.5 to 2.0 had any differences, but thats been the fastest way for me. I rarely render any of my effects or transistions as I use ones normally I already know what they will look like, or I can get a good idea right from the timeline. Export to mpeg 2 is very quick too. Sorrenson is much faster than the adobe encoder too, and compresses better and gives a better final product. I normally edit and export and compress a full 60 minute tape within 4 hours encoding and all. Oh when I export the mpeg 2 I do it to the full size that way its very little compressing done by adobe encoder.

To clairify, When I'll be shooting for DVD release the Firestore and FCP will be used ... RIght now I'm trying to see if I still need an HDV camera for my web HDV clients

I read the article twice no where does it say the hvx200 shoots hdv,that was the big thing when it came out.Closer to the 100k camera but at the hdv price point:
Recording format:
The Sony FX1 and Z1 use HDV at 1080i. The JVC uses ProHD at 720p. ProHD is basically HDV, except with an extension to allow 24p recording. The Panasonic uses DVCPRO-HD. HDV is a brand new format, whereas DVCPRO-HD has been around for at least four years. ProHD is even newer than HDV.

what are you nerds speaking about



Vidvicious......is a sexy twinkkkkkkk

Check this link:

Purchase a new Panasonic AG-HVX200 DVCPRO HD camera from an Authorized Panasonic Dealer from October 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007 and receive one (1) FREE AJ-P2C008HG 8GB P2 card (a $1,200 retail value) and a FREE copy of The HVX Book + CD by Barry Green (a $89.95 retail value)! Offer valid only for U.S. authorized product shipped to U.S. customers.

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Yah .. Only for us purchases

Sticky, I should have been more precise above, I actually have a similar workflow and that was what I was describing. I export my edited movies from Premiere Pro to a full frame size Cineform AVI file which doesn't take that long like you said, similar to when I used to export my finished vids to DV AVI with standard def.

Then I use my aging version of Cleaner XL to batch encode overnight to wmvs or quicktime files, at different bitrates, both with and without .png watermarks if necessary (and deinterlacing as it goes like you said rather than doing it in the timeline in Premiere) and THAT is the step that takes forever. Ten hours for a single 1440 x 1080 4300 Kb bitrate wmv with a 3.0 Ghz dual core pc!

I just ordered the relatively new Cleaner 1.5 upgrade to see if it works any faster. Maybe it takes advantage of the modern dual processors. I hope! Otherwise I have to maybe download the Sorenson or Procoder trials to see if that will work faster as batch encoding apps.

Where are you not in the US?

Ya I have both Sorenson and procoder 2. Main reason for procoder 2 is it is able to convert .vob files to whatever I need. But if Sorenson was capable of that I would use just it. Though it tends to be a bit of a problem when batching files Btw Sorenson doesnt really take advantage of the duo core. It will use most of one side, but not much of the other. Right now Im doing a 4 minute clip that was a 1920x1080 mpeg 2 clip at 750mb and encoding it to flv @ 640x360 at 1600kbs and its taking about 7 minutes. Not bad.

He's in Vancouver area Iirc.

You made a funny!

Haha MaDalton your too funny sweetie!

Wow a friend!! hehe

Now that I see a photo of you VidViscious I remember you! Wow so cool so you are on Webdreams 2! That is so cool! I feel like I have someone to talk to now! Do you have icq? Email me your number if you do at angelique at angeliquexxx dot com? Thanks!

LOL .. Montreal Quebec .. some might even say Canada

Have you tryed Deinterlacing before you render to Avi ?
That's what I do with my Dv Avi's, since my Clients pull screen caps from the finished Avi edit

For the $1,200+ savings, I would have a U.S. friend/client do the order and then have them ship it to you, or you can just go pick it up...

BTW, since some of you know Cleaner, are you able to do a double pass when creating .flv videos? I can only get a single pass, and then the application crashes. I still get output that works, but I would like to be able to do two passes and not have the software crash.

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Yeah Vid, to deinterlace in Premiere Pro the best way is to right click each clip in the timeline and select "always deinterlace", then hit enter to render. That process alone takes a few hours, maybe three or four hours for a 35 minute video.

Then the encoding to wmv in the third party app also takes many hours as I described above. Or lately I tried to combine the deinterlace step with the encoding. Either way it takes way too long!

Do you use the Mac version of Cleaner? I'm a pc guy, and I just purchased the Cleaner XL 1.5 upgrade that allows export to flash. When I receive it in a few days I will try it and let you know.

oops my bad hehe. I cant keep all that Canadia shit straight..

YAh I never use the right click .. when you export your file (ctrl + M) go in advance settings (sorry my adobe copy is in $#@$ french) under video and rendering .. chose De interlace .. that'll save you from right clicking everytime

I dont even see that as an option in 2.0 the right click and always deinterlace thing.

That's cus it's under feild options on the right click

I see it. Seems like an extra step since it does it on export.

I use Cleaner 6.5 for Mac...

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It is an extra step but, somehow I think the deinterlace looks better done that way. Maybe I am looking too closely and it is identical as doing it on export but I am getting bleary eyed from all the tests I am running so I will try again another day.

I hear that. Ill mess around with two clips and see. There is a setting Ive found before and cant now that eliminates the interlaced look in the timeline video monitor thingy. Its kind of weird for me sometimes it seems it auto deinterlaces the monitor, and other times I cant figure out how to get it to do what I want lol. Video work can be fickle. hehe.

Try not stairing so hard

lol I have 1 eye on each monitor, I think Im getting cross eyed.

Congratulations on your purchase.I`m sure it is a good investment and you won`t regret buying it

Damn...I hear that!!!

I swear to God my vision is fucked up, and so I go to get a vision check-up at least once a year - however, I think after sitting in the waiting room (not staring at monitors) my vision somehow clears up, and so the Doctors keep telling me that I don't need glasses/contacts.

I guess I just need to take more breaks...

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UPDATE ...

Ok well .. TOny had it dead balls accurate, Jim .. You can not Tape record HD with this Cam .. HD recording is HDD based only, Iether by P2 card (2 x 20 min) or Firestore (you can stack them).
So for my needs it's just not the right camera ... I did run some tests though, I found that the Z1U was better under low light then the pana. I Alos did run some minidv record runs, cpatured them to Ppro 1.5.1 ... Cut and rendered. I found the image to be so so ... I guess I expected a higher resolution but it pretty much match it's predicessor DVX100.

However if you need a camera that shoots HD (not HDV) for under $100 000 this is the camera for you.

The client that bought this gear does have all the nessary equipment to shoot HD with, Ie: Dual G5 w/FCP HD, 4 x Firestores 100's...etc ... But for fast food porn this is a little high of set up. All that's left now really is see what projects he's got for me and determine if this workflow is nessary.


Thanks to everyone that joined in this thread. This thread was very helpful ...

bump for those that missed the update

why do you wanna go HD, it makes the models look like shit in close-ups. Wrong move.

Interesting thread Vid... I was just gonna ax your opinion about the HVX200. I've been looking at the Pana for a while now, but I just found out thru this thread that you can't shoot HD on the mini DV tapes. I like the idea of recording straight to a p2 card or firestore, but I'm one of those guys that likes to save my raw footage. How can I save it?

Is it possible to use an HD mini dv tape like this one...

http://www.tapestockonline.com/jvcmidvprohd.html

or is burning to a dvd possible?

thx

This is imo the best camera right now for HDV video with web being the final destination. I think it would be fine for DVD too imo.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=14061

Canon XH A1. Low light on it is unbelievable.

If you shoot them with a 11 year old sony handycam it will REALLY cover up any blemish. Hell throw in a film grain effect and you can make any model beautiful.

We just bought an HVX-100 after about a year's worth of research off and on.

Couple of clarifications:

-- The HVX-100 is the only true HD camera (meaning, 1080/60i or 1080/30p, 100Mb/sec of data) in its price class. When you record hi-def on an HVX at DVCPRO-HD format, you're recording a full resolution image using lossless compression. That is why it is impossible to store true HD content to DV tape; there simply isn't enough capacity on the tape.

-- HDV is a completely different, noticeably inferior format. In order to fit the necessary data onto tape, it has to throw away about 3/4 of the data, because tape can only store about 25Mb/sec worth of data. HDV accomplishes this by throwing away a substantial portion of the color rendition data, and compressing the video into MPEG format (which is a lossy format). The resulting video is still of perfectly decent quality, but noticeably inferior, particularly in color depth, to true HD. Additionally, since the tape recording format is a highly compressed MPEG (same as DVD), it does not store individual frames; it rebuilds them from changes from the last frame, which is definitely an inferior format for editing. Long and short, it's serviceable, but nothing close to the quality of true HD at 100Mb/sec.

-- For porn use, you're probably best off getting either a FireStore (specialized portable hard disk that attaches to the Firewire out of the camera) or wait and get the CineStor which will be coming out late this summer. Both allow large amounts of video (about 100+ minutes at highest resolution) to be stored directly to hard drive. The units are designed to be mounted to the top or bottom of the camera, so there's no real concern about the Firewire plug being yanked out as long as your setup is sensible.

-- Another option is a laptop with DVRack Pro software, allowing capture direct to the laptop. As long as you can strap the laptop to your back or something, this is a very serviceable method.

-- The video files are enormous. Figure 1GB per minute of video in full 1080 hi-def. Good news is, you don't have to capture off of tape, as the data is stored directly to hard drive.

-- The HVX-100 can record in either standard DV definition (480p) on regular DV tape or any of a number of hi-def modes (720 or 1080) on flash memory cards or hard drive. It cannot simultaneously write to tape and to the memory cards, though it can, in 480 mode, write to tape and simultaneously output standard definition to Firewire for storage on a hard drive.

-- Getting precise focus on any HD camera is a problem, much more than on any standard def camera. Because it's hi-def, the built-in viewfinder or LCD screen will not be able to display the full definition, and therefore you cannot see if you're in total focus or not. You need to either use the focus assist, which shows you a tiny portion of the entire image in full def (like telephoto) or use an external monitor to ensure you get correct focus. It's VERY noticeable in HD.

So far, we've done only one large shoot (about 25 scenes) using the HVX, but it's a great camera, very flexible, amazing color and definition.

If anyone has any questions about it or its use, please feel free to contact me (chip at gaybucks dot com)

The article is wrong. The Panasonic does not support HDV at all, only true HD and standard def.

I agree that shooting 100Mbps hi-def is overkill for current web-delivered video, but remember that 4 years ago, everyone was putting up 320x240 video as "state of the art." Given the speed with which very high bandwidth to the home is becoming available, I think that within several years, hi def through web will be either a standard or a common feature in online porn.

That's why we are shooting the best hi-def we can now. In a couple years, we'll have a large cache of content that will still be close to state of the art, that we can re-render in higher definition modes, and be ahead of the curve in the quantity of content we have available.

Today in videography magazine clint eastwood used the sony z1's to film part of Letters from Iwo Jima. They said they are built like tanks.

I got to get me one of those HD Cams. I'm liking the JVC.

I have owned the HVX200 for the best part of a year. before that I owned the Sony HDV ZU1 camera. There's a world of difference between the two. Sony ZU1/FX1 id an interlaced camera which shoots HDV to tape. The picture is great, but the bit rate is a low 25mb sec.

The Panasonic HVX200 shoots DV to tape. IT DOES NOT SHOOT HD TO TAPE. Only dv.

It also does not shoot hdv. It shoots HD, and there's a big difference in the two. P2 cards are the dogs bollocks, even though you can oly get 8 gig cards at the mo. 16 gig cards are due at NAB. The data rate to P2 shooting 720P is 100mb sec. 4 times the info.

8 gig card will give roughly 15 minutes shooting 720P PN, and where the Sony is interlaced, the panasonic is prograssive, and you get true 24P, so the image looks like 35 mm film. If you dojn't want film look when shooting a porno, you can shoot 1080i like the Sony, so you get the best of both worlds.

One thing worth mentioning is that the Sony is better in low light conditions, being a good stop faster than the HVX200. But if you are a pro shooting a scene, you will have good lighting anyway so it shouldn't be a problem.

Its a great camera and if you can strech to it then get one. If you have a bit more to spare, go for The RED Camera, being released by Jim Jannard of Oakley fame. The Red One is going to revolutionise the camera indusrty.

Sony is SONY for me

I find it interesting that sony canon and jvc adopted the HDV format but pana did not... they use their own, DVCPRO-HD.

So vid... how much better is the DVCPRO-HD footage compared to HDV?

me thinks Pana Owns!

wow looks very cool

I can answer this as I have owned both the HVX and Sony ZU1. The Sony is 4:2:0 compared to the 4:2:2 of the Panny.(Better colour space) The Panny has the pro codec (100mbs)whilst the Sony has the 25mbs more consumer codec. Thats the reason the Sony can record to tape, as the datastream is a quarter of the Panny.

Capuring wise, the Sony has the be captured the old fashioned way with tape, whch may lead to the occassional drop out. So far I have never experienced this with P2, and capruring is instand and non hassle. Just connect the camera to the Mac and copy the files accross via firewire.

Pannys codec is better IMO. But. The image coming out of the Sony is still stunning. Its a video look as its interlaced, but if that's the look you are trying to achive its fine. The Pany is progressive and 24p. So it looks like film, unless you shoot in the 1080i mode, and it looks then like the Sony.

Panny is worth it for the P2 alone.

ok . Sorry I'm late .. lol

According to the latter posts, looks like most of you skipped over my update ...LOL

Well Here are the hard facts as some of you have posted. True there seems to be articles around that claim the Pana reocrds on tape HD .. this is not true. It does not record HD on tape only DV and I may add that it's DV recording isn't up to snuff, (in my Opnion). With that Said .. The Pana is basicly the least expensive camera you will find to shoot Real HD with.
However the only way you will get an HD recording out of this babu is via HDD. Mainly 8 gig p2 Cards and/or an HDD like a firestore 100. A New p2 14 gig is slated for release sometime in early summer (NAB) however, PAnasonic is natorious for missing launch dates, so don't hold your breath. And at 1400$ a 14 gig P2 card its no bargain. You're better off with a Firestore. Why the Firestore you ask. well these drives were constucted for EFP use (Electronic Film PRoduction) they are strong and can handle shock. (Just don't throw it at your talent)
To answer Jreel's question on tape record .. LEt me give you an example of a usual Panasonic work flow (I had several meetings last week with various technicians I know. that have worked with this product)
Ok so we record HD straight to HDD (P2 or Firestore).. Remember there is no HDV recording with this camera, PERIOD! .. Now there are many choices of HD recording From 720i (The first HD for TV signal) to 1080 60i ... Even in 24 F. There is no need for to capture your footage cause it's already digital. However .. you do need to remove it from the P2 card (max 28 min HD recording or 44 min Dv recording) For this you need to have a laptop on hand, However a simple 600$ laptop won't do .. and not all PCM card slots work with the P2 cards. Transfer the footage off the P2 to your Hard Drive.
Should you have been recording with a Firestore 100 then you might want to back up your Drive on your laptop or PC.
Heres an Important note to remember Since you are HDD recording you CAN NOT playback your recording via the camera. And you can not record both Tape(minDV NOT dvcpro !) and Hard Drive, It's one or the other (side note: you can do this with the canon X1h OR X1G) So simultanious Playback is a thing of the past with this camera for HD recordings.
Editing HD ... FCP is the cheapest and most affordable software out there to Edit true HD. However with the right PC, realtime video card (like the Matrox RTX.2) and Edit platform (Ppro 2.0) you can edit your HD footage.
Keep in mind this is Not HDV. It's HD there is way more information in this data stream then the latter. I haven't gone any futher then this for my needs. Since my HD recordings would be for broadcast or DVD release, I would export to tape ( most probably using an DVCpro VTR and recording my HD in DVCpro HD). I don't know what solutions are out there to Compress your HD video to an acceptable format for web (with out the need of a special Codecs like Cineform)