Europeans : do you feel Europe is becoming Islamic ?

one hundred europeans muslims

Why, because that racist bigot Lazonby thinks I'm an idiot because I hold quite a polarised view from his?


At least I have more of a clue not to group around a billion people into the terrorist whacko group.

Hm...no Islam in Estonia

"the terrorist whacko group" - you know, you would have to be a total fucking idiot to try to make the argument that the actions of a group of extremists are seperate from the millions and millions of people that support their actions.

since idiots like you will ultimately pull some dumb "timothy mcveigh was a christian..." or some abortion clinic bombing argument out of your ass... let me pre-empt that by saying that NO christian supports or defends that behavior, as rare and uncommon as it is. that can't be said of Islam.

Islam has more than a few assholes. thats because Islam is more than a religion in most of the world... its their life, its their lifestyle, its their identity, its their government, its their law and their life.

You won't see 1,000,000 Christians protesting, burning flags, screaming and yelling, burning embassies and acting like fuckheads because some Islamic cleric said something negative about Christianity. You dont see Christian priests in churches recruiting for terrorism. You don't see Christian priests in downtown London openly preaching that killing fellow Londoners is ok. Thats just a fact. Islam is more and more becoming the religion of the uncivilized.
... and pacifism is its prime enabler.

you can argue for days that all poeple are not equal and try forever to make the point that its just a minority.. but its not. its a vocal minority and a silent and often supportive majority.

yay! score on more for Islam... the religion of peace!




Associated Press
Five Palestinian Area Churches Attacked
By ALI DARAGHMEH , 09.16.2006, 11:38 AM

Palestinians wielding guns and firebombs attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza on Saturday, following remarks by Pope Benedict XVI that angered many Muslims.

..............

they are all evil and their children are the seeds of evil, i do not believe in hell but if we allow these people to live the earth will soon be dominated by muslims turning are globe into a real hell on earth.

Do you think that American foreign policy is next door to suicide? Do you think that Israel would ever be were it is today without US backing? Do you think that US financial funding of the IRA was justified?

There are some that think differently. They aren't muslim. There are muslims that think differently. They aren't terrorists. There are muslims and non-muslims that think islamist extremism has at least woken the world up to the problems in world leaders' foreign policies. I like to inform myself before passing judgement, rather than learning from what is fed me by TV.

So I'm reading a translation of the Kuran. It's rather interesting and makes far more sense than the Bible. It's understandable that those who live by their religious book go up in arms against the World's most powerful person, when such remarks are made.

I'm no idiot. You may think so, but that's your problem. Just think a little outside of your capabilities.

and before anyone decides to havve another go at me, enlighten yourself with a bit of light reading:


REBUILDING AMERICA?S DEFENSES
Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century



Read it, then look at the list of contributors.

I could pull so many passages out of there, so go on, just a few:


"From an
American perspective, the value of such [Persian Gulf]
bases would endure even should Saddam
pass from the scene. Over the long term,
Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S.
interests in the Gulf as Iraq has. And even
should U.S.-Iranian relations improve,
retaining forward-based forces in the region
would still be an essential element in U.S.
security strategy given the longstanding
American interests in the region."

"While maintaining
its combat role, the U.S. Army has acquired
new missions in the past decade ? most
immediately, missions associated with
completing the task of creating a Europe
?whole and free? and defending American
interests in the Persian Gulf and Middle
East."

"Elements of
U.S. Army
Europe should
be redeployed to
Southeast
Europe, while a
permanent unit
should be based
in the Persian
Gulf region."

(my favourite)
"The [north and central european] region is stable, but a continued American
presence helps to assure the major European
powers, especially Germany, that the United
States retains its longstanding security
interest in the continent. This is especially
important in light of the nascent European
moves toward an independent defense
?identity? and policy; it is important that
NATO not be replaced by the European
Union, leaving the United States without a
voice in European security affairs."

...and much much more insider goodies in that paper, driven toward creating a Pax America

Mein Kamf, anyone?

you need to know...
why this...
why that...
why why
why why why

blah blah blah

"your not enlightened by me because you get your news from TV"

"i am smarter and better informed than you because i am reading the Quran."

It doesn't matter. linking US foriegn policy to a bunch of idiots blowing themselves up, burning flags, strapping bombs to kids to blow up a cafe full of innocent people and so on doesn't matter. a convenient rationalization and "cause" are two entirely different things.

do you think you will "understand" something? really? do you think it will matter what you know and understand? Sorry... you are naive. it won't matter. in every shitty corner of the world, poor people are going to be exploited by relgious zealots and power hungry psychopaths to achieve their own means or goals. linking absurd and animal like behavior to "US foreign policy" is the same as saying "oh... if we'll just do XYZ, all these fucktards will be happy again" - i got news for you. they won't. hamas wont. hezbollah won't. al queda won't. the other thousands of people ready to claim their 42 virgins wont. all the idiots that for some reason hate jews won't.

nothing is going to change with your "understanding" of anything. all that will change is that you will find arguments you agree with to back up your own personal world view and make you more confortable and satisfied as you live out your irrelevant existence. thats all.

"understanding" has nothing to do with anything. all we are is simply bacteria in the petri dish of life fighting day in and day out to either preserve our place on the pecking order or to move up the ladder. until every single person on earth has the exact same money, exact same view of the world, the exact same perceptions and interpretations of the world and events around them, the exact same income level, the exact same philosophies and there are no more "have nots" - then "understanding" isn't going to change anything. there will be differences, there will be different perspectives and views. there will always be different ideas of what is threatening and what isn't. there will always be someone who make people believe they are being threatened just so he can hold power.... in the US, N Korea or Syria or anywhere. "understanding" doesn't change anything.

animals don't act with "understanding" - they act because they are animals. animals can't be reasoned with and your "understanding" of animals won't make them suddenly become something else. we are all animals. no different than a herd of babboons, fulfilling the most primal instructions encoded in our DNA - kick ass, have more than everyone else, breed and protect your offspring by eleminating any possible or reasonable threats. people have been "understanding" since the dawn of civilization and NO ONE can argue that we dont continue to act exactly like animals in these respects. maybe you don't "understand" more than you think?

life is nothing like the special olympics. in real life, there has to be winners and losers. the middle east has been losing for a long time and continue to lose. islam in its truest form has been losing for a long time and fundamentalism is nothing more than the last dying breaths of a set of antiquated ideas that are becomming increasingly irrelevant or unacceptable in moderm society. "US foreign policy" has zero to do with a bunch of ignorant fuckwits trying to kill innocent people. "US Foreign policy" is not causing people to flow into the streets, celebrating suicide bombers which is a behavior that is not defensible in any way shape or form in modern society. "US Foriegn Policy" doesn't cause oppression and poverty in the middle east where every man, woman and child should be a millionaire from oil alone. "US Foreign policy" doesnt cause almost every middle eastern country to rely on oppression and brutality and terror as a means of controlling its population. US Foreign policy doesn't say that women are second class citizens or even dogs and shouldn't be educated.

US Foreign Policy is just an excuse. one more excuse to excuse the behaviors of irrelevant people with irrelevant ideas who refuse to get in the game and join the modern world.

but you just keep on "understanding" - it seems to make you feel better.

in the meantime, i will stick with reality. the harsh reality that EVERY country acts in its own self interests first and foremost and when those interests are not aligned through mutual interests with others who are willing to push hard or threaten the safety and security of others... then war is gonna happen. it was true 5000 years ago. its true today.

you keep tellign yourself you "understand". there is a reason that its always a "student protest" and not a "i'm 60 yrs old, been there, done that, seen it all, protest". don't be naive.

Funny you should mention THE RELIGION OF PEACE.


http://thereligionofpeace.com/
http://thereligionofpeace.com/
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

A great resource.

Educate yourselves.

its not going to help to print facts. the bottom line here is always the same...

"source i agree with" = FACTS
"source i don't agree with" = "you're just brainwashed sheep"

You know, you were starting to sound intelligent and of someone who could hold their own in a rational debate, but it all went down the pan when you said


You may join the Bigot Train.

Would Ghandi have accomplished what he did without knowing his oppressors?

Terrorism is a funny old word. Who is the terrorist and who is the terrorised simply depends on which angle you look at it. If you only 'know' one side of things, then you are certainly biased in your angle of view.

who the fuck cares about 1 guy who did some good stuff? did ghandi stop ww1? wwII? and 100,000,000's of people from being murdered since his lifetime? thats my point.

and you will NEVER understand BOTH sides. you will ALWAYS be biased. you're not a young kid growing up in a refugee camp in palestinian areas. you're not a goat farmer from pakistan. you weren't raised by muslim clerics. jesus, you're biased. you will always be biased. thinking you are going somehow understand the average jihadist by reading a book is not only naive, its sheer stupidity.

your right. i'm a bigot because i think that treating a woman like a stray dog is a little primative.

good point.

i am seeing your side of things now.

you're brilliant.

Thanks for the link, Mike. That really is a great website and well orchestrated. It's bookmarked.

quote from the site"
There is no point in discovering whether a belief is right or wrong as long as it serves a personal interest or provides comfort (ironically, the very charge made by critics of religion). But another reason is the seductive appeal that useful clichés (no matter how hollow) often have against intellectual inquiry, which requires more effort to pursue.

don't worry, my Euro friends, some day the US will save you.





again.

No, I'm trying to understand a religion. A billion+ people worldwide and very fastly growing follow this religion. I don't know what it's all about, so I want to understand.
I was born and baptised. Therfore I am a Christian. I never asked to be, yet I was forced to go to church each Sunday when I was young. My children are not baptised. If they wish to follow Christianity when they're older, then that's their choice. The majority of Christians in this world have been forced into it. Since they don't know anything else. Or don't want to.

call me silly, but i would say you are "christian" if you believe in the teachings of jesus christ. believe in god. believe in heaven and hell and live your life in accordance to the bible. you can't be born "christian" - its a faith... a set of beliefs... not a 3rd arm growing out of your chest.

As an American who has lived in Europe, I have no issues saving Europe from itself.

We have to do it every so often... It humbles them... Then we have to do it again. Sort of like the child that has to bail their drunk parent out of jail.

History is doomed to repeat itself, but in Europe's case it is assured.

[QUOTE=Pleasurepays]call me silly, but i would say you are "christian" if you believe in the teachings of jesus christ. believe in god. believe in heaven and hell and live your life in accordance to the bible. you can't be born "christian" - its a faith... a set of beliefs... not a 3rd arm growing out of your chest.

I do agree, but when I was young, I had it forced down my throat, so I can see how people can become disillusioned when they are older to more capable of asking their own questions. I remember very well being riducled in class when I was 12 or thereabouts, our religion teacher (forced Christian teachings until 14) was asking everyone what their religion was. I replied none to which he said that I MUST have one. He asked if I was baptised or christened to which I said yes. So he said I was a Christian and should follow my religion and the teachings of God. Yeah right.

The only hope for Europe is to allow Serbia into the EU.

They have a history of dealing with the Muslims effectively.

Pleasurepays & Borked . . great posts, interesting reading

some valid points both sides

i found myself agreeing with both of you at times . . very confusing

wow I didn't think this would go page 3

[QUOTE=borked](let me preface this by saying i am 36 yrs old now)

i can sympathize. we never went to church, discussed religion etc. it wasn't a part of our lives in any way, shape or form when i was growing up.. but when i was in second grade, my parents decided they would send me to a private christian school that had opened near our home, to make me a good kid and give me a little more discipline.

what i saw there freaked me out immediately. even in the second grade i thought these people were insane. i mean they really scared me. i had no previous exposure to religion and suddenly i was surrounded by people who were hearing voices, talking to invisible people, insisting this invisible good guy was helping them with everything and an invisible bad guy was trying to fuck shit up all the time.

it scared me. it really scared me. i just thought they were all crazy. even in the second grade i was able to sit and ask enough tough questions to embarrass them. i got beat every day. it was a very strict school and everyday, without fail, i was beat for something. for me, it was more affirming of the fact that they were totally insane.

by the middle of the 3rd grade, my mother woke me up (also had extremely strict mother and father) morning to get me ready for school. i told her i wasn't going. she was completely stunned and told my father. my dad was threatening to beat me with a belt - i was scared but told them there was no difference. at least i would be getting my ass kicked in the comfort of my own home, by people i knew and in comfortable surroundings than going to this twisted school, surrrounded by people with invisible friends, telling me about peace and love as i was getting my ass kicked.

so... they took me to public school that morning.

I see where you're coming from PP -
all religion is a form of brainwashing.
But now my brain is not so impressionable, I like to understand what all that brainwashing is about. Call it acquired immunity

Just about all countries in Europe are seeing a lot more voters going for parties who support hate on muslims.

my buddy from stockholm hit me up on ICQ the other day to tell me how excited he was about their recent elections.

if i was scandanavian, i would be very racist and against immigration. i haven't spent much time in denmark (been there maybe 4 times), but have spent a lot of time in sweden. i can't imagine paying obscene taxes, building a nice country, almost completely elminating poverty, creating an unbelievable social safety net.. then watching a bunch of people come from somewhere else, full advantage of everything, bleed the system dry, not assimilate into society... then have the balls to preach hate in the very country and peoples hospitality that they are taking advantage of in every way possible.

Regarding Scandinavia you have summed it up pretty darn well. Almost perfect homogeneous, peaceful societies being destoryed by 'do-gooder' politicians chasing some unobtainable internationalist utopia with scant regard for the real interests of their own nation. I am sure you have seen this video, but still, it shocks me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXAlNN6H7u8

Huh?

You need a history lesson dude.

yet
wait and see ...

I have to admit this scared me

Yeah thats very true!
Europe is becoming muslim easy and for sure...
just check out how many Islam churches u have in ntherland... what albanian muslims did in serbia... and if Turkey enter EU every 5th citizen of Europe will be muslim....

If Turkey joins the EU I'm leaving for sure!

That is one country we DEFINITELY DON'T want in the EU!

that is 100% racist

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8E4rMJVHy...elated&search=

What a disgusting video, especially since the police allowed it to carry on when the law was clearly being broken with threats of violence. I really see many civil wars in Europes future. It may seem unreasonable now, but as the reaction to the killing of Theo Van Gogh showed, the attacks back and forth lasted much long than a single night. One day I fear, due to the traitors who rule our countries, these attacks will not stop on either side. By 2020 50% of people in Holland under the age of 18 will be Muslim.

I dont agree

I say deport all those filthy turks back to their shit hole country

so why did you bump a 5 months years old thread ? to see how many else do ?

Amsterdam too

The problem is that a bunch of EU goverments including UK and Germany actually want Turkey in..
With wishful thinking of a 'Bridge between East and West'

Problem is the traffic will be pretty much one-way..

The majority of the public just don't understand demographics.
Most people don't even know the population of their own country.

Look at Serbia. They just lost Kosovo to Albanian muslim immigrants, after getting outnumbered..
And they can't do anything about it. Its democracy.

i dont mind muslim peeps who are born here and who keep their religion to themselfs and dont whine about shit. Same goes for any other religion.
What i do mind is the dickless approach from the government here. Illegals are treated with more respect than the people who are born here, the failed integration, and the destruction of old dutch buildings in the middle of cities that get replaced by mosques. That is going too far for me, it's like the people that run this country flush our own damn identity down the fucking toilet.

You should ask Franck, I'm pretty sure he lives in the Islamic Republic of The Turkishlands.

one hundred ? it's a little bit more than that
hehe just kidding just kidding, we are almost up to "one fifty europeans mulslim" in this thread, this is not a bad response for such a topic

Look at it this way, in London, they don't eat Burgers and Pizza for their main fast food like we do... they eat Turkish kebabs. It will be primarily Muslim in 10 years.

for all you zealots... there is a great book available free at virginia.edu's ebook library that is definitely worth a read. It might open your eyes a little.

"History of Conflict Between Religion and Science"
by John William Draper
amazingly written in 1897

It explains so much so eloquently with facts not superstitious fiction.

Doubtful that any will read it though. It's better to live in blind "faith" than realize that the earth is infact round and not the center of the known universe!