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Rochard

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#101

12-30-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by pornonada

While i agree with you about the Iraq-Kuwait war i wonder why you referr only to this one? Iraw has attacked an ally or friendly nation and the US helped out, with the whole internatinal community behind them, that's fine.
But things stand not the same with the 2nd invastion 3 years ago and that's where large part of the international community, many people and even many Americans have a problem with.

The original issue with Iraq was in 1991 when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq was swifty evicted, but the goal was to evict Iraq and not over throw it's government. The US hardly has time to attemp to run a second government (being as it can't seem to run it's own government properly!). The US did the right thing, sent the Iraqis packing, and set up a ceasefire - with a number of restrictions.

For the next ten years Iraq violated every last condition of the UN imposed ceasefire.

And the UN did nothing.

Perhaps we should have just left him in power and acted like nothing was wrong.

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directfiesta

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#102

12-30-2006, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

Funny, but I don't recall Iraq getting permission from the UN to invade Kuwait in 1991.

You are right.... They got a tacit silent permission from the USA tough ...
( I have the video of it in DVD, really don't feel like getting it in divx, since no one will watch it ...)
At that time, Kuwait was pumping way more oil then it was supposed to... ( yes, oil , the key word ).
For every dollar that the oil was dropping in price on the market, Iraq was losing a billion dollar...
Saddam needed that money to repay for his war with Iran ( main creditor was the USA )...
So a meeting was setup, and the USA sort of said that they wouldn't interfer ...

Don't kid yourself ... why the hell would the UN and/or the US intervene ... to save a few camel jockeys, as you call them ... They don't intervene in Darfour, didn't in Rwanda, wont in Ethiopia/Somalia ...
This Iraq thing goes back to the day when Iraq was a CLOSE alley of the Soviet Union, pissing off the USA... Saddam then came ....

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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directfiesta

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#103

12-30-2006, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

For the next ten years Iraq violated every last condition of the UN imposed ceasefire.

Please list those violations .. and don't come with the no-fly zone.. That wasn't UN, but Brits-USA-France ( which later pulled out for humanitary reasons ).

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#104

12-30-2006, 04:23 PM

God told Moses,Muhammed,Hitler,Stalin,Saddam and some other cool guy,
Kill you enemies and you got peace thats the way it is,sorry

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pornonada

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#105

12-30-2006, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

The original issue with Iraq was in 1991 when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq was swifty evicted, but the goal was to evict Iraq and not over throw it's government. The US hardly has time to attemp to run a second government (being as it can't seem to run it's own government properly!). The US did the right thing, sent the Iraqis packing, and set up a ceasefire - with a number of restrictions.

For the next ten years Iraq violated every last condition of the UN imposed ceasefire.

And the UN did nothing.

Perhaps we should have just left him in power and acted like nothing was wrong.

You said it already your own: UN Resolutions not followed and UN did nothing. So after they did nothing they saw still room for talkings and dealings. Most of the world community as well. The USA invased there mostly on their own, based on the mass destruction weapons that turned out a totally lie.

However you turn this around, i don't think it's the correct way to solve international problems, affairs and such have to be handled that way. Serbia is an example how it can be handled much more correctly, in the meaning with an UN Resolution and the World Community together.

Look, i totally understand that you defend your country, the steps it makes and whatever involved around it, but on the other side you don't have to wonder about the unpopularity of your Nation in most parts of the world, be it hidden or openly.

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Rochard

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#106

12-30-2006, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by directfiesta

You are right.... They got a tacit silent permission from the USA tough ...
( I have the video of it in DVD, really don't feel like getting it in divx, since no one will watch it ...)
At that time, Kuwait was pumping way more oil then it was supposed to... ( yes, oil , the key word ).
For every dollar that the oil was dropping in price on the market, Iraq was losing a billion dollar...
Saddam needed that money to repay for his war with Iran ( main creditor was the USA )...
So a meeting was setup, and the USA sort of said that they wouldn't interfer ...

Don't kid yourself ... why the hell would the UN and/or the US intervene ... to save a few camel jockeys, as you call them ... They don't intervene in Darfour, didn't in Rwanda, wont in Ethiopia/Somalia ...
This Iraq thing goes back to the day when Iraq was a CLOSE alley of the Soviet Union, pissing off the USA... Saddam then came ....

Why hasn't the US intervened in Africa? Oh, that's right - we did. And after a single incident where American blood was shed (the "Blackhawk Down" incident) public support in the US disappeared. We should be in Iraq; We should also be in Africa making sure warlords aren't running these countries and making sure entire counties aren't starving. It's the right thing to do. Public support isn't there for us to be in Africa while public support "accepts" us being in Iraq because of the oil issue.

Setting aside the possible connection between Bush, his government, and the big oil connections...... Yes, this was about oil. While the oil companies are raking in huge profits there is something much more at stake here. Japan attacked the US in WWII because of - surprise - oil.

Saddam invaded Kuwait and was poised to attack Saudi Arbria. Imagine Saddam being in control of the bulk of the world's oil reserves. I personally have no problems with a gallon of gas in the US costing $60 a gallon - My commute is all of four minutes I'm positive it would help keep the idiots off the road. But imagine what that would do for our economy.

Just think - Gas prices jump through the roof and sudddenly no one has money for entertainment (read: porn).

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#107

12-30-2006, 06:43 PM

it will never never happen
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Rochard

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#108

12-30-2006, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by directfiesta

Please list those violations .. and don't come with the no-fly zone.. That wasn't UN, but Brits-USA-France ( which later pulled out for humanitary reasons ).

Let's start with the big one - WMD.

Weapons of Mass Destruction is a pretty big list. It's not only nuclear and chemical weapons, but also devices that can deliver then - such as missiles with a range of over 150 kilometers. In fact, this was on the list of weapons that Iraq was not allowed to have after the ceasefire.

And guess what happened on the very first day? That's right kids! They launched missiles from deep inside Iraq onto the invading US forces. No big surprise.

Next up we can talk about weapons inspections. Again, part of the UN resolutions. This is a simple one. The resolution specified "unfettered access" meaning inspectors inspect what they want - yet in Iraq they were blocked at every possible oppertunity.

The no-fly zones were also a resolution. This wasn't something that was open to discussion; This was put into place so that Saddam couldn't drop chemical weapons on the Kurds. I mean, he did it once; What's to stop him from doing it again? So we had the no-fly zones and the US and UK patrolled them. And guess what..... Iraq had the damn balls to fire on the planes. Daily.

Not sure where your from, but firing on a US warplane is act of war plain and simple. This in itself is ground for war and ground for a full out invasion. There is no arguement in this.

I can keep going....

UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991
- Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991
- Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.
- Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.

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Rochard

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#109

12-30-2006, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by pornonada

Look, i totally understand that you defend your country, the steps it makes and whatever involved around it, but on the other side you don't have to wonder about the unpopularity of your Nation in most parts of the world, be it hidden or openly.

I'm a former US Marine. This means two things to me....

1) I served at the pleasure of the President, no matter what clown was in the oval office at the moment.
2) My job wasn't to make war, but rather to prevent it.

As for the unpopularity of the US in other countries.... Don't care. I don't care what the French think, and I don't care what they think of the US in any other country.

Note that if I ever do leave the US I'll just speak French and pretend I'm Canandian...

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directfiesta

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#110

12-30-2006, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

Why hasn't the US intervened in Africa? Oh, that's right - we did. And after a single incident where American blood was shed (the "Blackhawk Down" incident) public support in the US disappeared. We should be in Iraq; We should also be in Africa making sure warlords aren't running these countries and making sure entire counties aren't starving. It's the right thing to do. Public support isn't there for us to be in Africa while public support "accepts" us being in Iraq because of the oil issue.

Setting aside the possible connection between Bush, his government, and the big oil connections...... Yes, this was about oil. While the oil companies are raking in huge profits there is something much more at stake here. Japan attacked the US in WWII because of - surprise - oil.

Saddam invaded Kuwait and was poised to attack Saudi Arbria. Imagine Saddam being in control of the bulk of the world's oil reserves. I personally have no problems with a gallon of gas in the US costing $60 a gallon - My commute is all of four minutes I'm positive it would help keep the idiots off the road. But imagine what that would do for our economy.

Just think - Gas prices jump through the roof and sudddenly no one has money for entertainment (read: porn).

Well, we agree on all that .... It is nice to see the false pretenses of freedom, democracy and rightness fall to expose the truth.

Just a little add-on: IN Somalia , the US are actually backing TODAY Ethiopia and re-installing the same warlords that they fought 10 years ago .. irronic, no ?

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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directfiesta

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#111

12-30-2006, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

The no-fly zones were also a resolution. This wasn't something that was open to discussion; This was put into place so that Saddam couldn't drop chemical weapons on the Kurds. I mean, he did it once; What's to stop him from doing it again? So we had the no-fly zones and the US and UK patrolled them. And guess what..... Iraq had the damn balls to fire on the planes. Daily.

[/I]

BS ...

The Iraqi no-fly zones (NFZs) were proclaimed by the United States, United Kingdom and France after the Gulf War of 1991 to protect humanitarian operations in northern Iraq and Shiite Muslims in the south. Iraqi aircraft were forbidden from flying inside the zones. The policy was enforced by US, UK and French aircraft patrols until France withdrew in 1998. While the enforcing powers had cited United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 as authorising the operations, the resolution contains no such authorisation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_no-fly_zones

iraq couldn't fly in their own airspace ...

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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directfiesta

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#112

12-30-2006, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

Not sure where your from, but firing on a US warplane is act of war plain and simple. This in itself is ground for war and ground for a full out invasion. There is no arguement in this.

[/I]

sure their is an argument .... I think the USA would shoot down a Chinese fighter over the USA air space.

You can shoot any plane down in such circumstances. Some countries even shot at civilian planes.

Brits and USA ( again the same ) were violating the air space of Iraq ..That has no argument ....

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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directfiesta

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#113

12-30-2006, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991
- Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991
- Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.
- Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.
[/I]

And if the UN had any balls, they would pass the same resolution towards the USA and Britain ... ( Oups, forgot they are both on the security council, so that will not happen ).

Like for the Germans and Japanese ( WW2 ), reparation should be paid ... to the Iraqis ...

That's all folks.... Good night

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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directfiesta

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#114

12-31-2006, 07:57 AM

hard to argue with REAL facts ....

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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Rochard

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#115

12-31-2006, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by directfiesta

BS ...

iraq couldn't fly in their own airspace ...

Not when they are killing their own citizens!

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Rochard

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#116

12-31-2006, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by directfiesta

Well, we agree on all that .... It is nice to see the false pretenses of freedom, democracy and rightness fall to expose the truth.

Just a little add-on: IN Somalia , the US are actually backing TODAY Ethiopia and re-installing the same warlords that they fought 10 years ago .. irronic, no ?

Politics is a tricky beast. We also once supported Saddam during his war with Iran, and the US once supported Osama.....

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Rochard

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#117

12-31-2006, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by directfiesta

And if the UN had any balls, they would pass the same resolution towards the USA and Britain ... ( Oups, forgot they are both on the security council, so that will not happen ).

Like for the Germans and Japanese ( WW2 ), reparation should be paid ... to the Iraqis ...

That's all folks.... Good night

Why should reparations be paid to anyone?

Germany attacked pretty much everyone in the world including Poland, France, Russia, the UK, and the USA. Germany brought it on theirselves. And in case you haven't noticed, the financial damage of WWII - brought on by Germany - is still being paid for. Just this month the UK made it's final payment in the Lend Lease Act.

Japan? They attacked the US and brought it on themselves.

The only reparations that should be paid is to the Japanese who lived in the US during WWII when they were all locked up. While not a war crime, this was a horrible thing for the US to do.

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directfiesta

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#118

12-31-2006, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Rochard

Why should reparations be paid to anyone?

Germany attacked pretty much everyone in the world including Poland, France, Russia, the UK, and the USA. Germany brought it on theirselves. And in case you haven't noticed, the financial damage of WWII - brought on by Germany - is still being paid for. Just this month the UK made it's final payment in the Lend Lease Act.

Japan? They attacked the US and brought it on themselves.

The only reparations that should be paid is to the Japanese who lived in the US during WWII when they were all locked up. While not a war crime, this was a horrible thing for the US to do.

I meant that the USA should pay war reparation to Iraq, for waging an offensive war ... just like Germany and Japan had to do after WW2 ...

I probably didn't express myself in proper english grammar ... happens sometimes.

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#119

12-31-2006, 12:00 PM

Thanks for the overly hypocritical pointless thread!
Happy 07 anyways
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#120

12-31-2006, 12:02 PM

Only Commie wanker emo pseudointellectual protesting liberal counterculture revolution Mao Stalin Lenin fuckups hate bush and blair so gofuckyourselves! Ha! Happy Capitalist NEW YEAR!
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#121

12-31-2006, 12:03 PM

Sleep well, and dream of large women.
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#122

12-31-2006, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by loco12

With the hanging of Saddam, its time now to go after two more war criminals, Bush and Blair, who have done far more murders than Saddam ever did.

saddam was hanged for the murder of several hundred vilagers.

So far in this illegal war, Bush and Blair have killed over 600,000 Iraqis. Over half a million innocents, becaue Bush wanted revenge.

Whats it like in the USA to be ruled by a man no better than Hitler?

I can tell you what its like under Blair. Fucking crap and the guy should be locked up and the key thrown away. He wanted to go down in history as a great. He goes down as a total toss pot, and an embarissment to the UK. Get the fucker out.

Saddam Hussien was a bad man. Of that there is no doubt. But a kangeroo puppet court, put in place by Bush and Blair, acted in a way no better than Saddam in the first place. It was an illegal war, and an illegal murder.

Hypocrisy rules in the US and UK. And as a citizen of the UK, this moring I am totally ashamed to be a Brit.

I say the United States should hunt you down next.

heeeeyyyyy now!

^ the real biz, yo.
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#123

12-31-2006, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by bizman2960

Bush is nothing like Hitler. Bush L-O-V-E-S Jews!!!!

He is exactly the same.
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#124

12-31-2006, 12:20 PM

The only problem i have with all this is that the US went into Iraq because they said they had weapons of mass destruction. They didn't have any so they have no rite to be there and to take Sadam out of power. He should have been hanged by his own people.

opinions are like assholes.................

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#125

12-31-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

You guys are making me sick to my my stomach by forcing me to defend Bush. I didn't vote for him already.

- Bush doesn't arrest anyone who speaks against him and then kills them. I wonder how many people "disappeared" during Saddam's 35 year rule of Iraq.
- Bush didn't start a pointless eight year war against Iran which resulted in billions of dollars in debt, a million deaths, only to end up in a draw. Saddam did.
- Bush didn't invade a smaller country unable to defend itself, Bush didn't kill all the men of military age in this smaller country, didn't loot it, rape it's women, or set fire to 600 oil wells. Saddam and his army had a blast in Kuwait, no?
- Bush didn't drop chemical weapons on Vermont killing thousands. How many Kurds did Saddam kill?
- Bush didn't surrender, fail to obey any of the terms of the surrender, and doesn't fire missiles at Canandian war planes on a daily basis. Saddam did all of this.

Jesus Christ people. Saddam came to power and on the very first day had 180 people executed. Imagine if Bush walked into Congress on his first day and selected 180 Congressmen, called them traitors, and had them killed?

How the fuck you will explain Bush's murder of tens of thousands of innocent people (other than so-called terrorists) Children below 12? Men over 70? Women? Bomb thier houses, fuck thier businesses?

Again, how the fuck you explain Bush's murder of tens of thousands of people (other than Saddam's army) in Iraq? destroy houses and businesses?

Bush and every fucking american supporting him should be charged for all those murders and should be hang to fucking death. Saddam deserved death he is died, now its your turn you moron bastards.

You know what? Its just the matter of who is in power -- When Saddam was president, every thing was OK for him. Because he had power, army ... Same is with you and your fuckin father monkey.

If he (and bloody you) are innocent -- present yourself in some independent court of justice (not like a puppet, you setup in Saddam's case). And that court will decide what you fucking deserve.

So sure about you and your father are innocent? Put forward yourself for trial .. lets see!

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#126

12-31-2006, 03:35 PM

Well, we all know why the US wont submit to the jurisdiction of the world court...
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#127

12-31-2006, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by minusonebit

Well, we all know why the US wont submit to the jurisdiction of the world court...

Erm... well, yes ;-)

No matter, justice comes in some form or other...

XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.
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#128

12-31-2006, 04:06 PM

this is a pointless argument in which noone will win. I don't like Bush or Saddam. In fact, I don't think I like anyone in government - but I'm just happy that I can sit here on the computer and say things like this and not be put in prison!

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#129

12-31-2006, 06:48 PM

I like Saddam NOW... he's a very quiet guy.

Sleep well, and dream of large women.
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