Fiddy shap business tips.
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9.9999 on average, does that count? o:
DukeComment
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Just 8 more votes and we hit 100.Comment
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yeah sales suck, so change your game plan or do something dif.Comment
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it's not 1999 anymore.
could shap recreate his success in 2009?
i like the guy, but probably not. look at sleazydream and xxxjay and countless others.
the gravy days are long gone.Comment
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I agree times have changed but i'm not a one trick pony. Our paysites are still thriving and our new projects are also doing very well. Not many companies can say that these days.
Could I succeed today with the skill set I came into this biz with? He'll no. But I'm not relying on that skill set. I'm researching and bettering myself and my team everyday.Comment
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100 votes have now been cast.
Here are the results for those of you who did not vote....
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Then you don't know everyone
I know many that do in fact make huge numbers with high PPS. In this biz(now days) you might as well take the high PPS and re-invest It into other stuff.
It doesn't matter what some say. I look at It like this: Program A offers 60% revshare, that will yield me $17,48 per sale for a full sale. Program B converts just as good but offer me $50 PPS on a trial. For every sale made I have to wait 3 months to make those 50 that I would have made instantly with PPS. And not more than say 30% stay 3 months on a good program now day's. But some will stay 2 years and bring up the average you say, yea true but what kind of money can you make with the PPS sales in 2 years if you re-invest them.
example: I have been a long time affiliate at a revshare program paying 50% and I convert them pretty good, getting $15 per initial sale and for every rebill. My average per sale value is at $35 with them now counted out over a 4 year period.
gfynicky @ gmail.comComment
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Fair enough, a different perspective/experience. The topic was focusing on join numbers and direct income though, hence why I didn't counted revshare\rebill income,etc..Then you don't know everyone
I know many that do in fact make huge numbers with high PPS. In this biz(now days) you might as well take the high PPS and re-invest It into other stuff.
It doesn't matter what some say. I look at It like this: Program A offers 60% revshare, that will yield me $17,48 per sale for a full sale. Program B converts just as good but offer me $50 PPS on a trial. For every sale made I have to wait 3 months to make those 50 that I would have made instantly with PPS. And not more than say 30% stay 3 months on a good program now day's. But some will stay 2 years and bring up the average you say, yea true but what kind of money can you make with the PPS sales in 2 years if you re-invest them.
example: I have been a long time affiliate at a revshare program paying 50% and I convert them pretty good, getting $15 per initial sale and for every rebill. My average per sale value is at $35 with them now counted out over a 4 year period.
Never I did say I knew everybody, was just stating (perhaps not in the best way possible) that not everybody is on/pushes $40 PPS
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That's all fine and dandy. Just understand that a significant number of the programs that offer high PPS are able to pay that by butt-fucking the surfers. What you said about taking the high PPS and reinvesting it in yourself is a very wise move cuz a lot of the surfers you sent to that join ain't never gonna join another paysite again, thus reducing your future income potential.
And while this poll may be fun, it's sort of pointless. If you do 30 joins per day but it costs you $25 to send that join, then what's the point? You know? The poll may be more informative if it asked how much you net, on average, per day.
I mean, fuck, I could go make some deal before the end of the day to buy 50 cross sales per day from some other company. But, I'd make next to nothing on the join and I'd have to realize that of the 50 cross-sale joins I got, a significant number of those customers will never buy from me or anyone else ever again. I have pretty low morals in relation to most people but I'm not willing to anal-rape my future, you know?
And Shapster, for the record, I do not believe you're growing and expanding. Now, I know you and I like you personally and maybe I'm 100% wrong, but I simply do not believe you. No one's growing and expanding right now. They may be buying up programs and filling them up with member area advertising links and pre-checked cross sales in order to gobble up every dime they can find, but ain't one program doing better in October of 09 than they did in Oct 08. Any program that's been around for awhile anyway. I mean, if you did 20 sales in Oct 08 and 100 in Oct 09, that doesn't count. Your content is simply not that unique to justify your company is growing while others with similar content are not. It's nothing personal. Just independent, objective thinking.Comment
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Comparing our Paysites Oct 2008 to Oct 2009 on sales and rebills we are pretty close to dead even. Adding in upsells and better member monetization we are up a little on overall revenue (ie we've increased our live cams push in the past year).
Our big growth is in the other projects we are working on. Some that people know of and others that people don't. Our industry has changed dramatically in a very short period of time. The people unwilling to change and innovate and work harder than ever are being chewed up and spit out. I think it's important for people to understand there is a big difference between the old guys/companies who are struggling going out of business and the guys that are still doing well. You can no longer sit back and relax and coast. The second you do that you are done.
We just put an offer on a new office space that is double the space and quite a bit more pricey than the one we are in now. Why? Because we need more room. We are looking to expand our staff and continue pushing hard. Times are tough but we are still no where near the point of cutting back and milking our entities for every last penny of profit
A note on my last point....I strongly believe when an entity/site/project hits a point where it continues to drop you have to look towards cutting all costs and running it as lean as possible. The beauty of our industry is, in most cases, there is a really good drawn out earn out period. If you have a paysite that was 15,000 members and it dropped to 3k members. Chances are you'll drop to a point where you can stop updating and make almost 100% pure profit. It's important to recognize when you hit that point so you can make that project as profitable in the end as possible.Comment
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Guess BROgrams missed this little ditty. So will post again.
Also, for the record, I do not consider growth by cross sales, and some other similar tactics 'growth' as being asked in this thread.
I think the O.P. is talking about direct, legit, memberships. Whether smaller affiliate, or small program or independent webmaster just starting out. Not the BROgrams with unlimited resources, and 10,000 affiliates.
Them chiming in, regarding this poll or thread talking about their greatness, really is pointless in this context. I think the O.P. was really trying to get the pulse of the industry in regards to the small, and middle ground of start ups.
Could be wrong, but that's my read on it.Last edited by Barefootsies; 10-30-2009, 08:20 AM.Comment
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PROFIT Shap, PROFIT. Revenues are worthless information. Well, not entirely worthless but shit, I made a shit ton more in 09 than Bank of America did. I think I profited like 5 billions dollars more than Bank of America is gonna do. But, they may have me beat a bit in revenue.
I'm willing to bet you $500 CDN that if your revenue stayed the same from last year to this year, you spent more getting that traffic and then getting that traffic to convert. That would mean you did not grow and expand. You just increased revenue. Increasing revenue is not nearly as challenging as increasing profitability.
And please tell me you did not just advocate keeping up a site and encouraging affiliates to send traffic to it while not updating it. I'm thinking maybe I misunderstood that sentence as that just does not strike me as a Shap-ism.Comment
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In terms of profit we are doing better than last year. Why? Because we always left a lot of money on the table and in the past year we started taking that money off the table. Where we used to do almost 0 in live cams now we are doing huge numbers. That said growing over the next 12 months would be very difficult as we are approaching the one year mark since we started that. Come this December year over year is going to be a lot of work to match in terms of sales, revenue or profit. Again that is only for paysites. Our other projects are experiencing huge profit growth.
I didn't say affiliates should send to a dead site. What I am saying is if you are running a paysite you have to know where you are in that paysite's life cycle. If you are heading towards the end of the road there is no point in sinking money into content and traffic. If the site is dying it's better to recognize that and milk it as hard as you can. It isn't part of my business model but it is a reality that all business owners should consider.Comment
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For the record, I do not know Shap, good or bad, and while I have seen him at shows. Never talked to him. So I am not busting his balls on a personal level one way or the other. Frankly I am indifferent to him and Twistys.
In general, in the past, Shap has shared some tidbits I agree with. However, I do not always agree and I am not afraid to say so. I just wanted to make that clear on a personal level.
Now that said..
.... there are a lot of old timers who believe you should leave up a site like that to milk them for all they are worth. Where I sell them off when I do not want them anymore, or they are abandon, or I do not plan to update them.
Myself, I do not find it all that hard to create new profitable sites. So I do not need to milk old dead assets. I would rather sell them off while they are worth something. But I get grief all the time for that mentality.
My guess is Shapalicious is more the conventional thinking on that position, as are many others in regards to asset management.Comment
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Just to clarify - the reason I posted this poll was to get an idea of what kind of sales an average person was achieving in today's adult business environment.
Obviously the big players and large established programs will still exceed 10 sales a day, as that is nothing for them. It may be possible that they've dropped from 100 sales per day down to 20, and yet in this poll they are still at the top.
I should have restricted the criteria a bit when I started this post, but even with all of the potential confusion I think a good amount of honesty has come through.
Small sites and networks that are making 5+ sales a day in today's economy, with limited assistance and minimal capital, are (in my opinion) reasonably successful at the moment. With tons of people out of work, and considering the state of the credit card crunch, maybe things are not as dire as I was beginning to believe.
A big thanks to all who have participated!Comment
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Just to clarify - the reason I posted this poll was to get an idea of what kind of sales an average person was achieving in today's adult business environment.
Obviously the big players and large established programs will still exceed 10 sales a day, as that is nothing for them. It may be possible that they've dropped from 100 sales per day down to 20, and yet in this poll they are still at the top.
In hindsight I should have restricted the criteria a bit when I started this post, but even with all of the potential confusion I think a good amount of honesty has come through.
Small sites and networks that are making 5+ sales a day in today's economy, with limited assistance and minimal capital, are (in my opinion) reasonably successful at the moment. With tons of people out of work, and considering the state of the credit card crunch, maybe things are not as dire as I was beginning to believe.
A big thanks to all who have participated!Comment
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I think it is still doable with the right business model, and content.
I do not buy traffic, nor have a ton of affiliates, and prefer to do it the long tail route. Targeting in on quality, converting, customers. Versus the old business model many use playing the traffic game.... throw enough shit and some will stick.
So when I can almost get to your cut off number on one site launched 4 months ago with less that 1000 UV a day. I think that is a strong indicator that this business still has good opportunity for "the little guy" just starting out.
Last edited by Barefootsies; 10-30-2009, 09:02 AM.Comment
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Absolutely. My point was I don't think someone doing this for 2 years full time and doing a total of 5 sales a day should consider themselves successful or close to a breakthrough. If you've done this for 2 years full time and are doing 5 sales a day total you really do need to move on because this industry isn't for you.I think it is still doable with the right business model, and content.
I do not buy traffic, nor have a ton of affiliates, and prefer to do it the long tail route. Targeting in on quality, converting, customers. Versus the old business model many use playing the traffic game.... throw enough shit and some will stick.
So when I can almost get to your cut off number on one site launched 4 months ago with less that 1000 UV a day. I think that is a strong indicator that this business still has good opportunity for "the little guy" just starting out.
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How is adding cams taking money off the table?
You know what, let's stop. I do appreciate what appears to be your candid replies but I just don't see it.
I suppose I'd never believe it till I saw your CPA verified financials and I'm pretty sure that ain't gonna happen.
Twistys
BusytOnes.com
AllNextDoor.com
BigCockNextDoor.com
BlowJobNextDoor.com
EbonyNextDoor.com
FuckNextDoor.com
GirlVoyeurNextDoor.com
HandJobNextDoor.com
HotCollegeGirlsNextDoor.com
HotMomNextDoor.com
HotVirginNextDoor.com
LesbianNextDoor.com
PornNextDoor.com
SheMaleNextDoor.com
SquirtingNextDoor.com
ThroatFuckNextDoor.com
IMO, none of these sites have any originality to them. Yes, the girls are smoking hot but the web is filled with hot girls fucking. Just a bunch of sites filled with purchased content offering pre-checked cross-sales. Albeit, above the join form but that's gotta be a significant portion of your income as well.
But I'll take you at your word, Shapapotomus. Your making tons on cams and that's your focus in addition to your paysites and you're netting more profit in 09 then in 08. Got it.Comment
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LOL I'm going to stop replying. Everything I say is either completely misunderstood or viewed as complete bullshit.
I really need to learn to follow the advice the BROS give me lol. They all say "Shap, SHUT THE FUCK UP and stop posting! Stop educating the retards. The less they know the better."Comment
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"Success" is subjective to that individual.
$29.95 x 5 = $149.75 x 30 = $4492.50 a month or $54,509.00 a year
That is more than my sister, and most models, and a few of my friends make a month. Add in some clip store(s) revenue, and other revenue streams and they can push that closer to $7500-10,000.00 or more easily.
While not a mansion with supermodels and lambo Shapalicious shaking your bon bon lifestyle by any means... it is a damn nice living in the midwest, and many other places in the world.
** on side note, this is revenue before expensesLast edited by Barefootsies; 10-30-2009, 09:29 AM.Comment
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It still amazes me how the simplest non-drama threads can escalate into madness.Comment
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Not COMPLETE bullshit. Just sorta bullshit. IMO.
I didn't write anything offensive. I was very careful to state that those were my opinions. You've been in this industry longer than me. You're more successful than me. You have more money than me. You're better looking than me. And fuck, I promote your sites. But I can still have an opinion even if it differs from yours.
I do discount most things you say pretty heavily. Maybe those aren't the right words. Perhaps better to say that I read your words with a sense that a portion of what you say is true and a portion is perhaps not so true. So when you refer to me as a retard, I'll go ahead and discount that as well. Or maybe, I'll just embrace my retardedness and hang out with my fellow retards. That will be difficult though. There are so few of them on here.
For the record, I don't think you're a retard and I wasn't trying to start drama. Just stating my opinion in the most respectful manner I could come up with.Comment
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Hey I don't think you are a retard. My last post was just in reference to what barefootsies call the Brogram owners think of the gfy users.
Honestly GFY is the worst place to discuss anything of value or thought. Hit me up on email anytime mrshap at twistys dot com. I'll be more than happy to discuss anything you want and discuss it in detail
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Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about!
I'm glad to report that both HowIgotRich and OTcash are both well in the 10+ category
Both offer exclusive content that are on opposite sides of the spectrum. One is softer-than-soft softcore in the Tease niche (OTcash), while Dirty D offers a menu of unique sites each with its own brand of debauchery that his members are very loyal to. GloryHoleGirlz and CrackwhoreConfessions/GhettoConfessions (same site, just Visa friendly URL) are the top two converting HIGR sites that have been pretty resilient in these lean times.Last edited by JenniDahling; 10-30-2009, 11:23 AM.Comment
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Barefootsies was the first person I put on ignore the day I got this nick. I just assume all his posts are aHey I don't think you are a retard. My last post was just in reference to what barefootsies call the Brogram owners think of the gfy users.
Honestly GFY is the worst place to discuss anything of value or thought. Hit me up on email anytime mrshap at twistys dot com. I'll be more than happy to discuss anything you want and discuss it in detail or a or have the word nig in it which I find offensive. So, I have no clue what he said. Yes, I think 18 year old hotties getting ass-fucked by 27 black dudes is hot but I find the word nig offensive. Hey, we all got our thing. :-)
I don't really want to discuss this with you via email. I like the boards for this type of stuff. What we should do is just agree to disagree. You swear you always tell the truth and I think that maybe you don't just a little. That's all.Comment
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Wow, 27 additional votes since I last posted the totals!
I'll do one final screenshot posting at 150 or 200, next time I log in.
As long as you cut through the drama, I still think the poll results are pretty informative.Comment
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One final bump for the weekend crew's input!Comment
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After coming back from a two year hiatus, I'm back to less than one sale a day. I'm warming back up though, so I'm anticipating getting back into the swing of things if I ever stop focusing so much on mainstream blogging.
I did wake up today to two sales and $70 though, maybe a good omen? Only time will tell I guess.
PS: I was never at the 10 sale a day mark, so can anyone tell me this: How long did it take you to achieve that, and more importantly, how big is your site network? I'm sitting at about thirty blogs that get entirely SE traffic (probably only 1,200 a day total right now) and two domains for freesites, galleries, seo pages, and other random good ideas I steal from people who have more business sense than I do
Second PS: Why must sponsors keep increasing their minimum payouts? Seems like very few will actually cut a check for 40 or 50 bucks anymore. If I'm only sending like 10 hits to an old sponsor a day, it'll take a year for me to get my 200 dollars damnit
Need custom blog posts or articles? Hit me up: Blog And Article Writer
Yes, I can do any kind of custom orders, too!
ICQ: 641204000Comment
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Regarding minimum payouts in the past 2 years fraud has been on the rise. It's been really bad. Having a higher minimum payout allows companies to get either more information on the sales (and the time to realize they are fraud) or forces the fraudulent affiliate to push harder sooner (which also exposes them). Our minimum payout is still quite low ;)After coming back from a two year hiatus, I'm back to less than one sale a day. I'm warming back up though, so I'm anticipating getting back into the swing of things if I ever stop focusing so much on mainstream blogging.
I did wake up today to two sales and $70 though, maybe a good omen? Only time will tell I guess.
PS: I was never at the 10 sale a day mark, so can anyone tell me this: How long did it take you to achieve that, and more importantly, how big is your site network? I'm sitting at about thirty blogs that get entirely SE traffic (probably only 1,200 a day total right now) and two domains for freesites, galleries, seo pages, and other random good ideas I steal from people who have more business sense than I do
Second PS: Why must sponsors keep increasing their minimum payouts? Seems like very few will actually cut a check for 40 or 50 bucks anymore. If I'm only sending like 10 hits to an old sponsor a day, it'll take a year for me to get my 200 dollars damnit
If you want email me at mrshap at twistys and send me your sites. I'll give you some feedback on how you can improve your sales. Results vary for everyone. Based on when they started, niche they are pushing, traffic levels etc.Comment
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Just 16 votes short of 150. I was hoping to post final results at 200, but 150 is okay too, and not far off. Any more voters out there??Comment
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Cool Shap , thanks for your continued offers of assistance!Comment
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