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Semi-Retired-Dave

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#1

Almost every other post in here is something about Tube Sites - Why...

10-22-2009, 10:10 PM

Legal tube or not. It seems like that is where everyone is going. Why not take the easy way out and just get out of the business all together. You have a better chance selling hot dogs at Venice Beach California then competing with all the tube sites that are out already.

Once you go tube, that practically means you are throwing in the towel, can't beat them join them. How much longer will you deal with this industry if your conversions are going to be 1:20,000?

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#2

10-22-2009, 10:11 PM

I agree with you. Tubes aren't going anywhere so it isn't going to do any good complaining about them all the time.

Mark

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#3

10-22-2009, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by CyberAge-Dave

Legal tube or not. It seems like that is where everyone is going. Why not take the easy way out and just get out of the business all together. You have a better chance selling hot dogs at Venice Beach California then competing with all the tube sites that are out already.

Once you go tube, that practically means you are throwing in the towel, can't beat them join them. How much longer will you deal with this industry if your conversions are going to be 1:20,000?

Offer them something better than just porn.

Porn is obsolete. Anyone can fuck and record it. Yawn. Even the hottest chicks just getting fucked... who's willing to pay for it? Less and less.

I think a big part of the reason why people aren't willing to pay for it, is that they see no talent in porn. Really, it takes no skill.

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#4

10-22-2009, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by BluMedia

I agree with you. Tubes aren't going anywhere so it isn't going to do any good complaining about them all the time.

Mark

Exactly right.

Either get yourself a tube pay site, or find a way to make the technology work for you. It is like a bunch of studios crying about VCR's. Or the music industry complaining about tape cassettes. Radio about MTV.

History has shown you that fighting the technology is a losing battle. Stop bitching about it. Either learn to adapt, or find a way to make it work for you. Or you can go don a paper hat, and super size my fries.

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Barefootsies

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#5

10-22-2009, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by Huggles

Offer them something better than just porn.

Porn is obsolete. Anyone can fuck and record it. Yawn. Even the hottest chicks just getting fucked... who's willing to pay for it? Less and less.

I think a big part of the reason why people aren't willing to pay for it, is that they see no talent in porn. Really, it takes no skill.

Nah.

Small production studios are still making money. Why? Because they listen to their customers, or tailor their porn to the requests. Mom and pops are still making money. Why? Because they listed to their customers. Clips4Sale studios are still making a mint. Many solo girl sites run by the girls are still making a mint. Why? Because they listen to customer demands, and cater to their requests, and provide some kind of interaction.

Most monoliths, and BROgrams shoot porn the way THEY think a customer wants it. They shoot, think, and direct the way a webmaster thinks. Not the way a consumer does. Most of the bigger BROgrams are ran by money guys who are disconnected from the core audience and in this for the money only. This is reinforced by their billing practices. Banging in cards, cross sales, impossible customer service, treating members like a toll booth on the highway.

That is why they fail..

Last edited by Barefootsies; 10-22-2009, 10:21 PM.

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#6

10-22-2009, 10:21 PM

I still dont understand why non-exclusive content providers or brokers hate tubes.....now that they are here that is lol
Paysite owners on the other hand, ouch

Its just different porn gimmicks to make money in this business

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#7

10-22-2009, 10:23 PM

Sheep

Originally posted by Loch

I still dont understand why non-exclusive content providers or brokers hate tubes.....now that they are here that is lol
Paysite owners on the other hand, ouch

Its just different porn gimmicks to make money in this business

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#8

10-22-2009, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Barefootsies

Why?

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#9

10-22-2009, 10:33 PM

it's just a faster medium for people to jerk off too, really. no plugins, no players, no clicking on a pic to see a movie gallery. like anything, they can be used for good or evil imho

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Barefootsies

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#10

10-22-2009, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by digitaldivas

it's just a faster medium for people to jerk off too, really. no plugins, no players, no clicking on a pic to see a movie gallery. like anything, they can be used for good or evil imho

They are the preferred delivery system of choice now.

I've talked to my members. I have talked to people on various forums. Free is not the top reason for the over 18 crowd, with credit cards, preferring a tube site model. There are many other reasons they have given, and they are right.

A tube free site, pay site, is simply all around more convenient and a better experience.

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#11

10-22-2009, 10:50 PM
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#12

10-22-2009, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by Loch

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#13

10-23-2009, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Barefootsies

Exactly right.

Either get yourself a tube pay site, or find a way to make the technology work for you. It is like a bunch of studios crying about VCR's. Or the music industry complaining about tape cassettes. Radio about MTV.

History has shown you that fighting the technology is a losing battle. Stop bitching about it. Either learn to adapt, or find a way to make it work for you. Or you can go don a paper hat, and super size my fries.

Originally posted by Barefootsies

Nah.

Small production studios are still making money. Why? Because they listen to their customers, or tailor their porn to the requests. Mom and pops are still making money. Why? Because they listed to their customers. Clips4Sale studios are still making a mint. Many solo girl sites run by the girls are still making a mint. Why? Because they listen to customer demands, and cater to their requests, and provide some kind of interaction.

Most monoliths, and BROgrams shoot porn the way THEY think a customer wants it. They shoot, think, and direct the way a webmaster thinks. Not the way a consumer does. Most of the bigger BROgrams are ran by money guys who are disconnected from the core audience and in this for the money only. This is reinforced by their billing practices. Banging in cards, cross sales, impossible customer service, treating members like a toll booth on the highway.

That is why they fail..

Originally posted by Barefootsies

They are the preferred delivery system of choice now.

I've talked to my members. I have talked to people on various forums. Free is not the top reason for the over 18 crowd, with credit cards, preferring a tube site model. There are many other reasons they have given, and they are right.

A tube free site, pay site, is simply all around more convenient and a better experience.

Amen. Read that a couple times, and figure out why the guys with tubes make moonays.
Even with the complaining about them, and with the "tubes dont convert" lines that are being hyped these days, you really think large companies pay big bucks to get their ads on them if they didnt make money from it?
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#14

10-23-2009, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by Barefootsies

Nah.

Small production studios are still making money. Why? Because they listen to their customers, or tailor their porn to the requests. Mom and pops are still making money. Why? Because they listed to their customers. Clips4Sale studios are still making a mint. Many solo girl sites run by the girls are still making a mint. Why? Because they listen to customer demands, and cater to their requests, and provide some kind of interaction.

Most monoliths, and BROgrams shoot porn the way THEY think a customer wants it. They shoot, think, and direct the way a webmaster thinks. Not the way a consumer does. Most of the bigger BROgrams are ran by money guys who are disconnected from the core audience and in this for the money only. This is reinforced by their billing practices. Banging in cards, cross sales, impossible customer service, treating members like a toll booth on the highway.

That is why they fail..

LOL @ BROgrams. You see it all the time with that crap reality content.
This may sound stupid, but why are they called that? Who are the so called bro's?
I hear this term alot, and someone asked me the other day, and, I really couldn't give an answer.
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#15

10-23-2009, 01:34 AM

Remember when every other thread about was about a tgp or gallery posting? It is just that tubes are to the industry what tgp used to be.
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#16

10-23-2009, 02:36 AM

You can adapt to format, but you cannot adapt to thieve.

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#17

10-23-2009, 03:33 AM

I make good coin off a few micro niche tubes I run. General tube sites are lacking the punch for me, but work for some of my clients.

Micro niche is the only way to go.

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#18

10-23-2009, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by CyberAge-Dave

Legal tube or not. It seems like that is where everyone is going. Why not take the easy way out and just get out of the business all together. You have a better chance selling hot dogs at Venice Beach California then competing with all the tube sites that are out already.

Once you go tube, that practically means you are throwing in the towel, can't beat them join them. How much longer will you deal with this industry if your conversions are going to be 1:20,000?

How is cyberage doing these days? AVS died over half a decade ago. I guess you have adapted? lol.

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#19

10-23-2009, 03:58 AM

we need tube tutorials, i will run tubes from now

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#20

10-23-2009, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by BluMedia

I agree with you. Tubes aren't going anywhere so it isn't going to do any good complaining about them all the time.

Mark

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Semi-Retired-Dave

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#21

10-23-2009, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by BlackCrayon

How is cyberage doing these days? AVS died over half a decade ago. I guess you have adapted? lol.

AVS had died from what you read. It's not what it used to be but believe it or not. We still do very good. We are going on 14/15 years. If you have a specific niche and someone is looking for it, they still buy. AVS guys don't post here and do what they do best.

If you are ever in Pasadena, Ca. our offices will speak for itself. Which is fueled by our 3 AVS's.

Last edited by Semi-Retired-Dave; 10-23-2009, 07:42 AM.

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#22

10-23-2009, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Sarah_MaxCash

Remember when every other thread about was about a tgp or gallery posting? It is just that tubes are to the industry what tgp used to be.

Very true, that was the beginning of FREE PORN. Now, with every new tube site, big or not. Members are programmed that they will never need to pay for porn again.

But they will still need to pay for a hot dog.

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#23

10-23-2009, 07:44 AM

who wants some TubeSTEAK??????????
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#24

10-23-2009, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Huggles

Offer them something better than just porn.

I agree - give them something else BESIDES porn. I mean, who goes to a PORN site expecting to see PORN? I mean, really people. Get yur head on straight here.

THIS is why when someone Joins one of MY Paysites he gets a free Billy Mays product of their choice with their memberships. That ShamWow thingy really helps conversions.

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#25

10-23-2009, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by MisterPeabody

I agree - give them something else BESIDES porn. I mean, who goes to a PORN site expecting to see PORN? I mean, really people. Get yur head on straight here.

THIS is why when someone Joins one of MY Paysites he gets a free Billy Mays product of their choice with their memberships. That ShamWow thingy really helps conversions.

Have you seen the biggest tubes lately? Give away porn, upsell on other stuff. ( Cams, dating, etc )

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#26

10-23-2009, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by MisterPeabody

I agree - give them something else BESIDES porn. I mean, who goes to a PORN site expecting to see PORN? I mean, really people. Get yur head on straight here.

THIS is why when someone Joins one of MY Paysites he gets a free Billy Mays product of their choice with their memberships. That ShamWow thingy really helps conversions.

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Semi-Retired-Dave

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#27

10-23-2009, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by MisterPeabody

I agree - give them something else BESIDES porn. I mean, who goes to a PORN site expecting to see PORN? I mean, really people. Get yur head on straight here.

THIS is why when someone Joins one of MY Paysites he gets a free Billy Mays product of their choice with their memberships. That ShamWow thingy really helps conversions.

That "As seen on TV" logo works every time.

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#28

10-23-2009, 11:22 AM

It's easier to sit here and complain all day about why you aren't making it than it is to sit down & work towards making it.

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#29

10-23-2009, 12:06 PM

Only legal sites, what to say

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#30

10-23-2009, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by TMM_John

It's easier to sit here and complain all day about why you aren't making it than it is to sit down & work towards making it.

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#31

10-23-2009, 12:25 PM

To an earlier point, people pay for it less because it's available free. You snap fingers today and make all hardcore inside members areas, and you see a fucking boom in business like never EVER before.

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#32

10-23-2009, 12:40 PM

Because people have delusions of grandeur and are unwilling to accept responsibility for their lot in life.

See, alot of people got in this business early, and made a shitload of money when there was shitloads to be made. (I'm not talking about people who made millions and retired, I'm talking about the people who made 5 or 10 or 20K a month doing galleries, freesites, simple SEO, link lists, TGPs, etc)

Because these people made alot of money, they fancied themselves "smart businessmen" and "entrepreneurs" who deserved what they were getting. They never saw themselves as another Jed Clampett who just happened to stumble upon some oil. (which is most cases, is a pretty realistic analogy)

Being in the porn biz early on was kind of like being a bond trader in the early 80's or trading stocks in the late 90's or being a mortgage broker in the early 2000's....it was practically impossible to NOT make alot of money.

Anyhoo, this market, like all markets, corrected itself and only the elite can survive now. Gone are the days of obscenely high profit margins and thousands of dollars in profits for only a couple of hours of work.

Rather than realize that they were just in the right place at the right time and got lucky, these people have become bitter. They developed a sense of entitlement to the money they were making and now that they're not making it any longer they need someone to blame.

In reality, the maturing of the market and the current state of the economy are the two dominating factors when it comes to the drop in income for the average webmaster and small program owner....but admitting that you weren't prepared for a recession or that you didn't stay ahead of the curve in the marketplace would mean that your current lot in life is your own fault, and most people aren't willing to admit that, so instead they find someone to blame.

Tubes are easy targets in that regard I suppose. Nobody makes money by bitching about tubes, but I suppose it does salve their ego.

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Dirty Dane

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#33

10-23-2009, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Barefootsies

Exactly right.

Either get yourself a tube pay site, or find a way to make the technology work for you. It is like a bunch of studios crying about VCR's. Or the music industry complaining about tape cassettes. Radio about MTV.

History has shown you that fighting the technology is a losing battle. Stop bitching about it. Either learn to adapt, or find a way to make it work for you. Or you can go don a paper hat, and super size my fries.

Flash/movies is not new technology. Tube/MPG/TGP or whatever, is only a presentation tool.

What convert, is the content and how you marketing it. If you dump 100.000 FHGs at once in your old TGP, then you will likely get less sales. Same with tubes. That's a no brainer...

In the end, it's the program owners who decide what and how to marketing, and the use of their content. If I were a program owner with movies, I would limit the amount of movie promo accessable at the same time, and I would not give all affiliates the same, but different content. I would also limit the number of affiliates, and I would restrict them from putting excessive ads to other sites on same pages. Thats the way it should be done - and of course piracy tubes are left out of that equation.

Right now, I am experimenting with a tube, and I will sort out many movies. Only show some few from each paysite - the best. It worked in the past (and still is) for photos, and I'm sure it will work now. A successfull tube is not about how many surfers you have, and how long they stay on your site because it is "big" - but how fast you can send them to your sponsors

Last edited by Dirty Dane; 10-23-2009, 12:45 PM.
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Semi-Retired-Dave

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#34

10-23-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Snake Doctor

Because people have delusions of grandeur and are unwilling to accept responsibility for their lot in life.

See, alot of people got in this business early, and made a shitload of money when there was shitloads to be made. (I'm not talking about people who made millions and retired, I'm talking about the people who made 5 or 10 or 20K a month doing galleries, freesites, simple SEO, link lists, TGPs, etc)

Because these people made alot of money, they fancied themselves "smart businessmen" and "entrepreneurs" who deserved what they were getting. They never saw themselves as another Jed Clampett who just happened to stumble upon some oil. (which is most cases, is a pretty realistic analogy)

Being in the porn biz early on was kind of like being a bond trader in the early 80's or trading stocks in the late 90's or being a mortgage broker in the early 2000's....it was practically impossible to NOT make alot of money.

Anyhoo, this market, like all markets, corrected itself and only the elite can survive now. Gone are the days of obscenely high profit margins and thousands of dollars in profits for only a couple of hours of work.

Rather than realize that they were just in the right place at the right time and got lucky, these people have become bitter. They developed a sense of entitlement to the money they were making and now that they're not making it any longer they need someone to blame.

In reality, the maturing of the market and the current state of the economy are the two dominating factors when it comes to the drop in income for the average webmaster and small program owner....but admitting that you weren't prepared for a recession or that you didn't stay ahead of the curve in the marketplace would mean that your current lot in life is your own fault, and most people aren't willing to admit that, so instead they find someone to blame.

Tubes are easy targets in that regard I suppose. Nobody makes money by bitching about tubes, but I suppose it does salve their ego.

You're about half way right on all this. I am one of those who started in 1995. My partner and I built a pretty decent size empire and were very smart with everything we've accomplished. Yes, we could have took the easy way out and retired which we can do now as well. Retiring is boring! We love to work. I think the people that are most pissed about the tubes are the guys like me that have been around 14/15 years and have watched the industry get crushed.

This thread isn't about money, its about how disappointing our own people in the industry have made it with these tube sites.

You won't see Jews giving away their Movies for free. They stick by each other all the way through.

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#35

10-23-2009, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Dirty Dane

In the end, it's the program owners who decide what and how to marketing, and the use of their content. If I were a program owner with movies, I would limit the amount of movie promo accessable at the same time, and I would not give all affiliates the same, but different content. I would also limit the number of affiliates, and I would restrict them from putting excessive ads to other sites on same pages. Thats the way it should be done - and of course piracy tubes are left out of that equation.

Which is what I do with my invite only program.

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#36

10-23-2009, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by CyberAge-Dave

You won't see Jews giving away their Movies for free. They stick by each other all the way through.

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#37

10-23-2009, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by CyberAge-Dave

Legal tube or not. It seems like that is where everyone is going. Why not take the easy way out and just get out of the business all together. You have a better chance selling hot dogs at Venice Beach California then competing with all the tube sites that are out already.

Once you go tube, that practically means you are throwing in the towel, can't beat them join them. How much longer will you deal with this industry if your conversions are going to be 1:20,000?

I'll buy that.

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#38

10-23-2009, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Barefootsies

Which is what I do with my invite only program.

That's a good thing.

I have a few sponsors who have limited their amount of affiliates, and they are doing best for me. Naturally, the traffic will also be pushed more that way because of the better convertions, and thereby compensate for the traffic left out from elsewhere.
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