FBI Conducts 2257 Inspection Of Another Secondary Producer - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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BoyAlley

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#1

FBI Conducts 2257 Inspection Of Another Secondary Producer

11-16-2006, 08:55 PM

This is the SECOND time that the DOJ has appeared to violate the restraining order, and the FSC has still done nothing about the first occurrence.

Will they do something now, or are they just going to accept that the FBI is inspecting secondary records as well?

It's be really nice if they came out with an advisory at some point as to their position.

Pure Play Media is both a primary and secondary producer of adult films, and Arnold said the agents inspected records from both types of productions. Pure Play Media is a member of the Free Speech Coalition and its secondary producer records should be exempt from federal inspection via an injunction the FSC won for its secondary producer members in December.

http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=18176
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#2

11-16-2006, 08:56 PM

FSC, baby...

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studiocritic

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#3

11-16-2006, 08:59 PM

The FSC has been disappointing me for a long time.. I appreciate you bringing their [in]actions in focus, BA.

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r-c-e

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#4

11-16-2006, 09:01 PM

Sounds like things are getting creepy over there.
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#5

11-16-2006, 09:07 PM

hmmm reading up on it...
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Paul Markham

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#6

11-16-2006, 09:08 PM

Seems the FSC umbrella did not work.

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ToplistBlog_Com

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#7

11-16-2006, 09:10 PM

Hmm interestign
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RawAlex

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#8

11-16-2006, 09:11 PM

Boyalley, the question is this: Was the company a target as a secondary producer or only because they are in fact a primary producer as well?

Has there been any inspections of companies that are ONLY secondary producers? Or is secondary production status on some material only, well, secondary to the issue? Also, wouldn't a primary producer have to prove that they are not the primary producer of the material?

It isn't clear that secondary producer status is in question here.
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BoyAlley

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#9

11-16-2006, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by RawAlex

Boyalley, the question is this: Was the company a target as a secondary producer or only because they are in fact a primary producer as well?

Has there been any inspections of companies that are ONLY secondary producers? Or is secondary production status on some material only, well, secondary to the issue? Also, wouldn't a primary producer have to prove that they are not the primary producer of the material?

It isn't clear that secondary producer status is in question here.

All very good questions, and I agree that things aren't clear. One of the reasons why I'd like to see a statement from the FSC (the first incident happened some time ago now).

Did the FBI not realize that these companies have "secondary" content as well when they showed up for the inspections?

Does the DOJ feel that the new 4472 updates aren't covered by the injunction and are conducting "secondary inspections" intentionally?

It's hard to tell, and the silence is becoming deafening.
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Dirty Dane

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#10

11-16-2006, 09:16 PM

Just show that no one is safe and laws are equal for everyone
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#11

11-16-2006, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by Dirty Dane

Just show that no one is safe and laws are equal for everyone

I said that from day 1 and caught nothing but shit for it. This is the United States government you're talking about. The F.B. fucking I... aka game over.

How anyone honestly thought a quick payment to the FSC would protect them is just laughable. While it is honorable to donate to the cause, don't think you can't get piped up the ass while doing so. (Calm down BoyAlley, I know that ass piping comment gave you wood)
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BoyAlley

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#12

11-16-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

While it is honorable to donate to the cause, don't think you can't get piped up the ass while doing so. (Calm down BoyAlley, I know that ass piping comment gave you wood)

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RawAlex

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#13

11-16-2006, 09:29 PM

Umm, when you say "first incident", are you refering to the east coast producer that had his entire house checked? I don't think that was specifically a 2257 inspection, as they had an actual warrant, from what I gather.
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BoyAlley

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#14

11-16-2006, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by RawAlex

Umm, when you say "first incident", are you refering to the east coast producer that had his entire house checked? I don't think that was specifically a 2257 inspection, as they had an actual warrant, from what I gather.

No, that's not the incident I'm talking about. There was another west coast company that was secondary that was hit, Legend Video. They produce NO original content, and are 100% secondary according to Douglas:

http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=17575
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RawAlex

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#15

11-16-2006, 09:39 PM

Ahh... for me, that one falls under the very slippery definition of primary and secondary.

If you contract someone to produce exclusive content that you then sell on DVD, are you a primary or secondary producer? This is a very valid question with exclusive contracted content, and is something that hasn't been clearly defined. I know where the lawyers on our side would like to draw the line, but is contracting a third party company any different from hiring an employee to do the same?

Also, would a porn distributor who is only a second ary producer not fall into the same situation I mentioned before, where they have to prove that they are only secondary? It seems to me that it is pretty much too easy to say "the primary producer is this dude in Outer Transcanistan, it's not us" and walk away from responsiblity. It would almost require a worldwide investigation to prove otherwise.

How would the FBI know if Legend was only a secondary producer until they checked the records? Would they take FSC's word for it?
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#16

11-16-2006, 09:57 PM

Dunno the two so called secondary producers are both companies putting product out on DVD's. In my book they should be inspected as primary producers. But maybe the lawyers think otherwise. If I was in the US putting out DVD's to distrubute in the US i'd expect i'd have to keep all records in hand.

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#17

11-16-2006, 09:59 PM

Want an answer from FSC. Pay them. thats all they are after anyway.

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#18

11-16-2006, 10:02 PM

they asked for certain titles , if they produced those then it doesnt work.
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#19

11-16-2006, 10:13 PM

To the best of my knowledge the injunction only applies to those that have businesses located within the Court District that issued the injunction and if I remember correctly it was the 10th Circuit Court that issued the injunction.
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Sexxxy Sites

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#20

11-17-2006, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by Sexxxy Sites

To the best of my knowledge the injunction only applies to those that have businesses located within the Court District that issued the injunction and if I remember correctly it was the 10th Circuit Court that issued the injunction.

Does any knowledgeable agree with this post.
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#21

11-17-2006, 12:43 AM

We should work hard to raise them some more money so that they can continue to not do anything.
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#22

11-17-2006, 12:51 AM

"The agents brought a list of titles and some copying equipment. It seemed like they were impressed because our 2257 records are in pretty good shape.?

Hell.. another day out and ripping off some decent porn for personal use

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Paul Markham

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#23

11-17-2006, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Sexxxy Sites

To the best of my knowledge the injunction only applies to those that have businesses located within the Court District that issued the injunction and if I remember correctly it was the 10th Circuit Court that issued the injunction.

Do you honestly think membership to the FSC is going to stop the FBI if they think you have something they need to see?

Let's be logical here, the FBI do not give a shit if your filing is straight, they do give a shit if you have 17 year olds in porn and they will come knocking.

OK given that Mr Bush is not getting onto the back of the boss at the FBI, then it becomes political.

Different game and we are but pawns.

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#24

11-17-2006, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by Paul Markham

Seems the FSC umbrella did not work.

Correctamundo.

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#25

11-17-2006, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by Sexxxy Sites

To the best of my knowledge the injunction only applies to those that have businesses located within the Court District that issued the injunction and if I remember correctly it was the 10th Circuit Court that issued the injunction.

This isn't exactly how it was sold, if I remember correctly. I seem to remember the "you better pay them if you want protection from the inspectors" being the overall message.
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#26

11-17-2006, 04:17 AM

Primary or secondary, you should have the documents easily available...

By know if you're an American webmaster struggling with 2257 then it's time for you to call it a day. So much warning has been given, virtually all American paysites compy so there's really no reason to be worried.

Has there been an investigation into a total secondary producer yet? Every article on 2257 investigations I've read so far has been primary or a mix of the two, never secondary alone.
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#27

11-17-2006, 04:24 AM

Fortunatly i dont live in America so i dont need to bother with that.
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BoyAlley

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#28

11-17-2006, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Sexxxy Sites

To the best of my knowledge the injunction only applies to those that have businesses located within the Court District that issued the injunction and if I remember correctly it was the 10th Circuit Court that issued the injunction.

Not correct. Anyone that was a member of the FSC was covered.

I agree with what everyone's saying, and this point everyone should be 100% compliant with both their primary and secondary records, and I couldn't imagine running a site without having the docs in place for all models on it.

However, that's not really the point here. The point is that there's supposed to be an injunction in place, and despite an earlier "apparent violation" I've not seen comment from the FSC.

Did 4472 override the injunction, is the DOJ violating the injunction, where do things with the lawsuit stand now?
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#29

11-17-2006, 06:58 AM

As an industry we have had to respect the requests of the law and change our records and have to be ready to present them at anytime.

However, under the FSC and the old law currently, any secondary producer can't be searched.

My thing is, if we have to respect the new changes, the FBI should respect the current law and FSC protection. Until that changes, we should not have to be subjected to searches as a seconddary producer.

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RawAlex

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#30

11-17-2006, 07:00 AM

DoJ / FBI don't appear to have violated the injunction because the producers in question are potentially primary producers, and their status as primary or secondary would be a matter for discussion in court. I don't think a company buying exclusive footage from a third party and then distributing it as a DVD is awfully close to being a primary producer. Further, without checking records, the FBI / DoJ would have no way to determine that status.

4472 would appear to override the injunction (as it was applied only to the administrative clarifications that the DoJ applied to 2257), but that would only be for material created or published after it's effective date (whenever that was). Until that point, it is clear that secondard producers were exempt, with the exception of DoJ's clarification thingie, which FSC took to court.
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#31

11-17-2006, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by RawAlex

Ahh... for me, that one falls under the very slippery definition of primary and secondary.

If you contract someone to produce exclusive content that you then sell on DVD, are you a primary or secondary producer? This is a very valid question with exclusive contracted content, and is something that hasn't been clearly defined. I know where the lawyers on our side would like to draw the line, but is contracting a third party company any different from hiring an employee to do the same?

Also, would a porn distributor who is only a second ary producer not fall into the same situation I mentioned before, where they have to prove that they are only secondary? It seems to me that it is pretty much too easy to say "the primary producer is this dude in Outer Transcanistan, it's not us" and walk away from responsiblity. It would almost require a worldwide investigation to prove otherwise.

How would the FBI know if Legend was only a secondary producer until they checked the records? Would they take FSC's word for it?

I agree, and I am surprised that not many definitions have been made in this regards. For many content shooters, we are considered primary producers even we shoot on exclusive and custom specs for one and only only "publisher" being by internet or video distribution or print.

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