End of Cross Sales????
I saw this on another board. I have not read it any where else yet. Is this true?
One of the big gateways just sent out a memo..no more external / company to company cross sells.
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For the adult industry's reputation with surfers, I hope so.
For the affiliates like me that love $35+ PPS, I hope it's not so. -
PPS schemes suck generally... anyone in here for the long term doesn't give a flying fuck about PPS... so I for one would be glad to see it go.i like wafflesComment
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Ah, I guess disregard.
I guess it is basically just some processors doing a C.Y.A. and sending out a "notice" of the MC/VISA association rules. Basically sabre rattling that they are giving you notice of the rules (again) in case you forgot.Nothing has changed, not do I expect anything to change until visa/mc start auditing accounts and hitting people with big fines. Most people I know will continue to do "business" as normal until then.
Long story short. Without actual audits, nothing will come of it.
Carry on.Comment
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More a less.
It would be like CCB (or any processor) sending out notice saying, 'oh yeah and just a reminder that Scat, Underage, Beast, etc. is against the VISA/MC rules'
..then not check for it.
Until there is active enforcement, just like most other industries, no one gives a shit.
Oh well.Comment
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if so, say good bye to just more than PPS.
dating sites too push a lot of cross sales, so that means a lot of us that make money on dating sites because sales are down, we will loose out too.
a good thing i guess is tubes will make less money if there are no pps dating sites
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While it looks like nothing will come of it,... unless processors, or more accurately merchant banks, started enforcing that rule. Then you would see the adult industry grave yard get a lot more tombstones.if so, say good bye to just more than PPS.
dating sites too push a lot of cross sales, so that means a lot of us that make money on dating sites because sales are down, we will loose out too.
a good thing i guess is tubes will make less money if there are no pps dating sites
It will be interesting to see who's left in this online adult industry full time, as well as the BRO programs, come the Vegas show in Jan. 2010.Last edited by Barefootsies; 08-03-2009, 10:41 PM.Comment
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It would be good those cross sales disappear.Comment
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PPS is the worth self inflicted injury we could of dreamed up. Look at the general facts.if so, say good bye to just more than PPS.
dating sites too push a lot of cross sales, so that means a lot of us that make money on dating sites because sales are down, we will loose out too.
a good thing i guess is tubes will make less money if there are no pps dating sites
REV SHARE is about keeping the members as long as possible, keeping them happy and meeting their needs.
PPS is about paying the affiliate as much as possible to get the traffic. It's about cross sales, up sales and not about the customer.
With the customer voting with his feet it's obvious they are not happy and we have all suffered. We need to reverse that trend if we truly want to earn money.Comment
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I agree with you. Though, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
If/when they go, what are you peckers going to cry about then?
But consider yourself lucky, you're getting a head start to dream up a new useless porn crusade, so get on it!!!
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i dont believe this is the end of xsells
just the end of the current way they are doneComment
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They talked about this in depth at a seminar at one of the shows this year. It actually tied into why they are building their own in-house traffic, and eliminating the affiliate model. Or more accurately, not being so dependent on it.
Long story short was, the 'whales' and affiliates keep demanding more money for their traffic, and if they can't pay the demands, they lose the traffic source. With each program fighting for the same traffic source whales. They had to keep 'one upping' the others with the highest PPS to get, and keep, the whale traffic sources and affiliates.
This actually compounded the problem as there was little loyalty to the program, and it became about the almighty dollar and PPS.Comment
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I received one of these, and I imagine so did anyone else who works with high risk merchant accounts.
Pretty much it was a warning that if you do cross sales you better play by the rules or be prepared to pay the price. The fines it mentions are pretty heafty, and you can be docked per occurance, double ouch.
I don't think it will bring an end to cross sales, but I think it will bring the whole process back to more above board selling practices, which is not a bad thing.
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http://www.sin20.com/podcast/062209-...ndly-practices
The guy from ftc says if you have a prechecked cross sale that is a problem. You listen and after he says that there is an awkward silence in the room.Comment
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How's about they just create some original content that you can't get from the competing sponser and end the problem?
As far as pre-checked sales for a sufer - what a fucking rip off! If I were a surfer I would never deal with that company again and I would report my credit card stolen if I didn't notice the pre-check.
Why can't people just make quality content and retain instead of all these cheap scams?Comment
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PPS doesn't need xsales to pay $30-$40 per signup. It just one of many steps 'smart' programs take to cover money holes and help affiliates convert better too.
Xsales is a small part of the huge pie. We can get them on thank you pages, member area one clicks & upgrades, emails and cancel emails, backouts from the processor, join pages, exits, cancel offer pages and so on.
The biggest programs are PPS for a reason, they have xsales, cb limits that most of you truly know nothing about, all of which means they aren't screwing surfers over.
Yes, our Industry has had a few bad apples, but that has always been the case, and 'MOST' xsales programs NEVER screw the member over.
~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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What are you talking about? If it's pre-checked it's a screw over. You can pretty it up anyway you want.
If you're offering additional choices and giving them time to think about it, that's an entirely different story.
Again, if you are promoting original content, this shouldn't be an issue.
If you're creating sites off of pre-released content or renaming a site, you're a rip off before you even do this. That's just my opinion of course.Comment
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Please leave your moral values at the door.
People think teen 18/19 year olds dressed up to look young is wrong. People think face fucking is wrong. People think anal sex with bats is wrong. People think porn is wrong. People think what DirtyWhiteBoy does is wrong.
Personally, I don't care what any of you think. I'm sure if I looked your business over I will find something you're doing I don't agree with.
That FACTS are, when it's clearly marked... It's not a scam by the Company that allows it (Visa and MC), it's not illegal and if it pissed surfers off or caused problems, the sites would have CB issues ~ and they don't.
The sites that do 'fraud' the surfers, xsales is just a tool then, they will fraud the people either way, with or without xsales.Last edited by TheDoc; 08-04-2009, 02:39 PM. ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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Hold on, I'm the least moralistic or judgemental person on the planet, but when I'm ripping someone off I know it. I'm not one of these people who point my fingers at tube sites or people giving away too much free porn and blame them for the fall of the industry.
The shit you guys are talking about in this thread is the reason for the downfall of the industry.
I could give a fuck as long as I get mine, but it seems like you guys think there is a moralistic way to do things which I'm dying to hear more about
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Hold on, I'm the least moralistic or judgemental person on the planet, but when I'm ripping someone off I know it. I'm not one of these people who point my fingers at tube sites or people giving away too much free porn and blame them for the fall of the industry.
The shit you guys are talking about in this thread is the reason for the downfall of the industry.
I could give a fuck as long as I get mine, but it seems like you guys think there is a moralistic way to do things which I'm dying to hear more about
Xsales have been going on for like 10 years man, by the biggest programs... they aren't new. ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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The bad x-sales are the ones where the site membership is 19.99 but the x-sale is $39.99. If it wasn't a scam why double the price?History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.Comment
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Bad xsales are when they terms or text, some part of it is wrong, shady, or hidden.
It's pretty rare to find a xsale on a $20 site going straight to a $40 site, with no trial of any kind. As long as the terms were clear on that, people would simply uncheck it.
People 'take' checked xsales, because the offer is good. Just like people check them.
Anyway, why don't we stop rebilling members, after all - some 100% forget. That is kind of like stealing, if they don't use it, they cost you nothing, but you charge them for years anyway? If VISA doesn't stop the rebills for you......
That's diff though. ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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BTW MasterCard has had it so you can't xsale outside your own Company for awhile now.
I haven't heard anything from any gateway / processor about Visa doing the same. ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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No I mean the site itself is $19.99 but its sold via x-sales at $39.99. Why? Why isn't it sold through x-sales at the real membership price?History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.Comment
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You sound like someone with a lot of scams going on.
Why would you stop rebilling someone who wants to renew a legit site with legit new content coming out next month?
I can easily understand why you wouldn't want to xsale to some asshole site with the same content you've seen 100,000 times before LOL!Comment
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Like I said, nothing personal. We're all webmasters here, right? I'm not paying for shit LOL!
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Unless they are on a Merchant account... Websites taking xsales go through approval. They have to meet standards, stronger CB/refund levels and have a 'track history of sales.'
I think some people confuse pre-checked xsales and people scamming surfers any way they can. ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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If you can't figure this out just on basic common sense, I don't know what to tell you, but I will say that you can much easier correct a mistake and get a refund from a site that rebills than one that cross sales, not that every site who cross sales is guilty of what I just said.Comment
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Ive cancalled things and had them rebill for months afterward, cancelling usually doesnt mean shit lol
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I am happy to hear that you are not signed up for a single PPS program.
I know of a few extremely popular sites that only offer revshare and still cannot retain a member past two months.
I also know of a few extremely popular sites that retain a high enough percentage to make sense, but PPS still works out for the better by a few dollars over the life of the average member.
You have to evaluate PPS vs. RevShare by program. Sometimes one makes more sense than the other. That is true with subscription sites, cam sites and dating sites.
Then, of course, you have to factor your own traffic into the equation. Some sites get better traffic, some worse and if you study the numbers hard enough, you'll figure out which is what and it should all be a wash out in the end.
For instance...with dating, on my blog, revshare makes sense, on my tube, pay-per-free profile makes sense. In the end, they balance out and everybody is happy.
Don't go with the status quo.
Having said that, like my original post said, it's better for surfers to do away with cross sales, but it can hurt the affiliates bottom line. The affiliate will be around longer though if the surfers can trust the programs in the first place.Last edited by epitome; 08-04-2009, 03:11 PM.Comment
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It's not cross sales,
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Because that would be illegal, I would go to jail for it. The FTC/DOJ and DEA would crawl up my ass then it would be Bubba's turn.
xSales, aren't illegal. And fine print when the total words on the join form are 20, I don't really think that's an issue.
Why not stop trials, xsales, upsells, cross sales, one clicks, emails at that, actually. Lets stop doing anything that others don't like and only start doing what others approve of.
That's a great thing for business... let's all do it the same! ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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