No retrial for The Pirate Bay

No, I am not making a false analogy, because I am not talking about a situation with "non-infringement" or "not-cp", or potential abuse. I am asking you a straightforward question about morality, when a criminal act is known. When you know it is illegal, there are NO speculations left. Everything else is irrelevant...
So when you answer yes, that means you also accept the fact that the owner of a torrent website bear the burden of stopping it - and reporting it, when they know. Right?

A DVD with protection in another region when you can buy the unprotected dvd in your region. That's Canadian Law..... that's time shifting.

I'm selling you access to time on the DRM system and within that is movies you can use within the DRM protection system. If you personally go around it, nobody is going to care. If you make a parody, nobody is going to care. If you go around it, to crack it, to distro it, to sell it illegally, duplicate it online in any form..... that's criminal and no longer copyright/trademark.

Canada does respect it... just like they do respect U.S. Copyrights when proper notice is given.

thats basically life in a nutshell my friend.. i dont want them to be guilty i want to be able to rob and pillage and suffer no effects for my mad behaviour. but it aint gonna happen anytime soon

so is orange juice , whats your point.. the majority of people use pirate bay for stealing stuff.

nobody is backup, timeshifting , back to the futuring cam recorded new movies.

so if i give away oranges with my crack sales im 50% legal ? i'm afraid its the other 50% you will be arrested for

thats exactly my point , most people agree its not legal thus it should be illegal , thus thats why pbay got busted.


actions ? most people use it for sharing copyright material they do not have the right to download or share, there may be many legal torrents being used legally , doesnt make the illegal ones legal, nor does it make it the majority of their service , MOST people aren't using it for legal purposes. just like pawnshops , they get regulated different than other shops, because people realise they are used primarily by criminals if they are not regulated.

you should already know the difference, they obviously didn't hence the guilty verdict

Since you believe that it is 100% legal to make redundant backup copies of dvd movies, then do it in France.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7362.cfm

The right to make personal copies can be restricted by copyright holders when duplication "could cause an unjustified damage to the legitimate interests of authors," today's judgment said.

Here is another idea. Buy microsoft vista in the USA and make several backup copies, and tell Microsoft about it. Make some loud noise like the pirate bay guys and maybe you will find out in court if fair-use allows you to make unlimited backup copies.

Microsoft license agreement states that vista buyers only have a right to make one back up copy. But don't worry about it. I am 100% sure you will win in court because fair use allows you to make as many backups as you want, even if you don't really need 500 backups, right?

Again you speak from sheer ignorance of what I do.

I don't "deny" anybody anything. I give them a very high quality streaming vid that they can't steal. (we've tried everything including replay media and we have it down where they can't download it) And then I GIVE them a downloadable .wmv to keep.
Difference is, the downloadable version is a smaller one that is not at high quality and is watermarked in several spots.

So again, you fail in trying to keep up with me or even begin to understand how come I'm able to always make great money in porn even while others can't.

Give it up gideon. Your torrent marketing idea doesn't work and it will soon be a moot point when the laws are changed.

You really do seem like a bright guy. Instead of spending all day on GFY arguing, why don't you turn you intellect to something that can make money?

I can tell you right now, with my ideas and your ideas we could make money. And I'm certain that there are plenty of smarter guys than me on here with money making schemes that I haven't thought of yet that you could make a lot of money with as well.

But the torrent thing? It's a dead end.

the torrent provider is exactly as liable as you would be for the virtual porn example.

I will let you decide which is which

if you believe that you should go to jail for creating kiddie porn if your content is use in the making of such virtual porn

then yes
if you argue that the legitimate use of your porn exempts you from the criminal liablity even though i can now prove you know it "can" be used for the creation of kiddie porn then no.

for me in both case the answer is no
the fact that the sales transaction you are making "can" both be used for a legitimate purpose and the illegal purpose means and you have no way of know which is going to happen means you can never truely know that an infringing act is happening

like wise fair use rights means that the torrent site owner can never really know either.

They should have set up pre-checked retrials.


:P

i really suggest you look at the court ruling
this is similar to the css/decss vs css decrypt ruling in the states
the arguement between ripping out/preventing the copy protection completely creating a copy that can be copied as well
vs a copy that can act as a legitimate backup (well technically the original would be the backup and the copy would be the primary playable device) only

this is a perfect example of how if you fully provide for the fair use right you can legally stop technological solutions that go to far (decss)

it just being misrepresented in this press article.

this btw is why a private tracker solution works, it the same basic concept.

which is exactly the same position when you talk about what i do.


if you are giving them a downloadable copy doing watermarks correctly would subconsiously program them to enjoy your content more. (by 400%). you actually changes the way that their dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (pleasure center) responds to your videos.

Then funny thing is because this programming creates a compounding effect where the more they watch your videos the more they are programmed to prefer your content it ends up not mattering if your content is pirated or not.

The second part is the branding bug, which then direct them to the buying action.

You have to do both, do just the first right and all you do is program them to want to search thru the tube sites and the torrent sites for your content. IT would still have a positive effect because the content may not be available (too slow) and the programming will make them desire it more but it is no where close to the ROI that you get when you do both right.



Do both and you program them to want to buy from you.

I have not seen one single porn producers do watermarks correctly, they either do too little (no pavlovian conditioning) or too much (negative pavlovian conditioning)

and absolutely no one is doing branding bugs properly, which is a real shame because most pornsites already have all the pieces in place to in their members area to take advantage of this stuff.


virtually everyone is blinded by the expectation that stuff from mainstream will never work in adult. They don't even do the testing. I didn't have that bias, so i did the testing.

That is without a doubt some of the finest gobbledygook bullshit double talking that doesn't mean anything that I've ever read.

So you really think that you...gideongallery are smarter than I am? Or even come close to some of the guys who have and continue to make fortunes in adult online?

You haven't "tested" a damn thing in adult. You're just talking. I don't talk. I actually DO things. My "tests" come from 13 years of successful marketing. Your "tests" come from...hell, I don't even know HOW you THINK you are testing anything since you haven't made any money with your theory yet.

This is just pure insanity gideon...and I'm loving every minute of it. I've been working all day finishing up the promo tools for our latest update and checking in here every few minutes just hoping that you'll post another outrageous assertion that you are a marketing genius and all of us that have actually done this for a living for over a decade are "doing it all wrong".

Gee, I'm so glad that you came along and smartened us up.

the better analogy is the virtual porn
should you be convicted for the one time that your content is used to make virtual kiddie porn because you knew it could be used in that infringing way and kept selling the porn content.

The seeder always have a backup right, the only way they had the content is if they bought in the first place. and that all the tracker does, point to the seeder.

fine i will make it really simple i will make an instructional video showing everyone exactly how do it right,explain the fundamentals behind it and show the results of my test.

One condition you agree that if you ever do any of those ideas, your content becomes public domain.

If your truely believe i haven't test this,you know what i am talking about will never work, you should have no problem with this.

Put it in writing and i will do a complete walk thru.

Gideon, You are a funny, funny guy. You are completely delusional. But carry on buddy.

It's obvious that you think your "tests" are better than a decade plus of real world successful experience. Your not in ANY online industry...mainstream or adult and yet you think you have all the answers and we are all ignorant. Only YOU, the chosen one, has the intelligence to do it...even though you haven't made one penny or convinced even one company that you have it right.

Pussyserver could have learned a thing or two from you about delusions of grandeur

Pure delusional insanity at it's finest.

I think the difference is the intent.

If someone buys your content, downloads it to their computer and photoshops the head of a kid on it to make CP you had nothing to do with this and there is nothing you can do to stop that short of no longer selling your content.

If, however, you ran a site where you sold the content and included on the site a step by step tutorial of how to photoshop kids heads on the bodies of the adult models you are now helping to facilitate them in carrying out this act and you could find yourself in trouble.

There is a pretty big difference.

And BTW just because you have the right back something up doesn't mean you have the right to make that backup available to the public for download.

robbie: start up a small paysite.

gideon: you do the torrent marketing.

figure out a split after costs.

invest the time spent on gfy into the new project.

if it fails, then meh ... that was the risk of a new market.

if it works you both make a profit.

BLASPHEMY!

or maybe gideon could be part of a new claudia marie scene called "timeshifter" where he plays a vcr repairman and shows up at her door and when claudia gets sick of his talk about branding bugs pushes him on the couch and access shifts his cock into her pussy.

You're assuming that gideongallery has a penis


Just kidding gideongallery.

I tried to stay out - i REAAALLLYYY did... but holy crap GG


that statement is the most.... twisted... fucked up... assumptive... bullshit... LIE I have ever heard in my life.

congrats

you have surpassed yourself and win a kewpie doll

Man... why are you bringing potential abuse of content and censorship into this? That is not what I am talking about. I agree that anything legal (like adult porn or non-infringement distribution) should not be stopped because it could be abused, but when a crime is actually happening, then the one doing it should be held responsible. The same responsibility apply to those website owners ignoring it, if they know.

There are simply no "if" or "but" regarding this, but I understand my question gives you a moral dilemma. That was also my intention. Because it is not only about the technical issues regarding laws and the nature of internet, but also morality. You see, when people are caught up with their own fanatic versions of 100% freedom and free speech, the only thing left is the limits in law and its loopholes. And how to exploit it. The thing is, that the scumbags like the ones the pirate bay are actually allowing childporn. They have been raided for it by the police before, and they still know and allow it. And I am not talking about some 16-17 year old teengirls in wet T-shirts, but small children doing all kinds of suggestive stuff in underwear. It might be legal in the liberal Sweden, but this kind of shit is illegal in many other countries.

Legal or not, this is the kind of morality standard you bring to this board and the kind of morality that finally brought them to jail. They give a shit about morality as long they can take advantage of it. Instead, they just ignore it or laugh about it and they make money off it. They do not only provide torrent hosting, but they also guide their users to hide their identity so they can continue their crimes. Now they even make money off providing VPN connections for the users, so they can hide behind their IPs. How can you not consider this, and much more, as contributing to organized crime??

really how did the very first seeder of a tv show get that show if they didn't record it from the tv signal encode it as an avi and upload.

Please tell me the magic location where the very first seeder got the content he/she uploaded.

well said

my morality is governed by the principle your rights end the second mine begin and vice versa. A solution that lives within that scope is moral, one that does not is immoral.

My morality does not change from one situation to the next. IT not about absolute freedom, it has everything to do with giving everyone equal freedoms.

what you are missing about the virtual porn example is i did not say you should get convicted for all the legal transactions just for the 1 time it was used in the illegal way.

That perfectly matches your

if you choose to not do a complete background check on every purchaser to see if they have any pedo characteristic are you any less responsible for the crime as a torrent tracker who doesn't do checks to see if the seeder in question is actually bought the content. when the infringement occurs both should suffer the liablity for their choice sure you can say that the second happens more often but that just means that they get convicted more times under this new rule.

But when the penalty for making cp is so high, on conviction is all you need.

so let get this straight

1. everything i would teach you would be totally worthless and therefore never be implemented by you
2. I am asking you to put your content into the public domain ONLY if you implement something i teach (which will never happen see point 1)

and you are refusing to accept those terms Why?

me things he does protest to much

!. I don't believe you can "teach" me anything about marketing since you have ZERO experience

and

2. Because I really do have nothing to prove. YOU are the one trying to tell experienced and successful online marketers that our salvation is through the very theft that has hurt the industry so much. So prove it.

idiot...

If you know a crime is happening, then you do not need any precautional investigation. It just happens, and the only way to prevent it, is by not allowing it. But if you say go ahead, then it will happen more often. If a website is contributing to millions of criminal acts each day, and 90% of the activity is illegal, wouldn't it be wise to consider shutting down the website instead of going the opposite way and end up in jail?

Everyone should have equal freedoms, yes, but it makes no sense to talk about equality of something that is not a freedom. Others property is not a freedom for you to have unless they give it to you by free will, or majority decide so. Acting criminal will not change that. Only your given freedom of speech can. That is called democracy, and even if the swedish judge was taking side, he would still represent the majority.

first off you are pulling the percentage out of your ass, fair use makes a lot of those "illegal" activities perfectly legal
but let just say you are right let go back to the virtual kiddie porn
and say there is a 10% that one of your customer will make virtual kiddie porn (yes i pulled that number out of my ass but so did you and i put way down on the legal side unlike you)

the likilyhood of it happening at least once is 1-(.9)^x where x is the number of sales

after 21 sales you are above the 90% (21 sales = 89.0581010868488%)

i am assuming that your content has been sold more than 21 times total, that being the case do you believe that you should go to jail for your contribution to making kiddie porn WHEN the content is identified to be yours.

If not why do you believe that the torrent sites should, especially when they think that it really only like 3-4% illegal when you take into account fair use.

remember both of you are 1 step away from the actual infringement.



the right to do what you are legally licienced to do with content (including fair use rights) is just as sacrocant as the feedom of speech, considering that one of those fair use right is parody and therefore has both the right you are talking about and copyright granted rights of fair use, they have more of a right.

if the justice system was just a majority rules we would need the supreme court, abortions would be illegal and porn would be the same as prostitution
the judges responsibilty is to represent the letter of the law, and when that is not clear the spirit or the intent of the law when it was drafted, not the majority.

so you are refusing to give up a right you will never take advantage of you have nothing to prove.

ok i will sweeten the pot i will buy a membership to your wifes site even though she is to flabby for my taste watch one of her movies so i can catalog exactly what you are currently doing

all you have to do is agree to put your content into the public domain if you use any of the techniques i showcase.

Basically i am going to pay to give up the right to use techniques you claim you would never use.


Obviously we will know that "nothing to prove" is like your kids driving around in a military van stealing wifi bullshit you posted in the other thread if you turn down this overwhelmingly in your favor offer.

No thank you gideongallery. You aren't "offering" me anything. You have nothing to offer. You aren't even in this business at all. And you are completely and totally delusional. Very typical and common. As I said before, you and pussyserver are two of a kind. Big shots with absolutely nothing to show for it.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way you can't "catalog" what I do. It's called CREATIVITY. You can try to imitate it, but unless you have creative talent you'll never duplicate it. These are concepts that are completely foreign to a person like you. And it's why I'll always run circles around you in life.

see i knew you were full of shit

a free sale, the ability to shut me up totally and all you would have to give up is something you claim you would never use.

and you still back down.

my god i have never seen a bigger pussy

PS
when i said catalog it was how you did your watermark, what the time sequence of your animation was, color scheme of your logo and position. I don't give a fuck about what the content behind the watermark is, it irrelevant to the change i was talking about.

Lol, typical Gideongallery spinning and doubletalk

I challenged YOU to take your theories and stand on your OWN two feet and open a site and market it on torrents by putting up all the content for free with your "branding bugs" and watermarks. (which by the way watermarks and different ways of what I call "product placement" but you call "branding bugs" have been used for over a decade online, but you keep thinking it's some "new" thing you invented and perfected with "testing")
But you backed down immediately after all of your braggadocio and now with the skill of a politician you TRY to make it about ME?

LOL! I already have several successful sites. I already have made millions in marketing porn online over the years.

What have YOU done?

Nothing. And you won't and can't do anything.

So yes gideon, you have seen a "bigger pussy" Just look in the mirror.

hell i will sweeten the pot one more time

1. $100
2. A free sale
3. The ability to shut me up completely

and i will give you a chick shit back out clause, let assume that 1:10,000 chance i actually know something that could make you serious money (reverse that 200k slide) then you can buy back the right to use what i showcase by paying me 10,000 x what i gave you. That even odds if you believe that i have 1:10,000 chance of knowing something your 13 years of business experience hasn't taught you. And even better if you believe it even less likely.


Further more i will reach into the bank of 121 things we have found out and kept secret sell those as a tutorial with a 150% money back guarrentee.

all you have to do is agree never to use any of the techniques i showcase unless you pay out the chicken clause.

let see if you actually have the guts to stand behind your claims.

I am betting you will back down again.

you really think i am going to work in porn for 1/20 the money i can make in mainstream just to prove you wrong.

Especially when you have so little faith in your skills that (if your claims were not total bullshit) wouldn't cost you a thing.

LOL! I haven't made any claims!
YOU did!
This is priceless gideon.

Microsoft vs Gideongallery

Judge: How many Windows Vista dvd backups did you make?

Gideon: 5 million

Judge: Why did you make 5 million dvd backups?

Gideon: Just in case 4999999 backups are lost,broken,or stolen. I can make as many backups as I want because it is my fair-use right.

Judge: Where did you store these dvd backups?

Gideon: In a wharehouse in Beijing,China.

Judge: Did you ever use these backups?

Gideon: No. Unfortuntately, fair-use activists broke into the wharehouse and stole all my backups to make parodies. Fortunately, I still have the original Windows Vista dvd in order to make more backups.

Judge: Is it true that you are currently torrent seeding your Windows Vista dvd?

Gideon: Yes. I am seeding in order to make more backups on remote computers. Seeders always have a backup right. I can make as many backups as I want.

Judge: I have made my decision.

Judge: Gideon has fair-use rights to make as many backups of Windows Vista as he wants. And he can put those backups in any place he wants including a distribution wharehouse in China or torrent seed them onto other people's computers. This case is dismissed!

Gideon: Thank you.... (wakes up)

you have repeatedly claimed that what i am telling you to do will not work



you claim that you will always run circle around me in "just the overall understanding of the entertainment industry"

which is exactly why told you i would showcase exactly how to do watermarks and branding bugs correctly for free as long as you agreed put your content in the public domain if you used my ideas.

If you were actually believed that "run circles around you" statement, you would have no problem agreeing to that, because you wouldn't ever need(or even want) to "use" my ideas.

You back up your claim and i will back up mine.

Okay, I'm going to back up my "claim" Here are my statsremote affiliate sales statistics from late 2003 to now. These statistics do NOT include the money I made during the "golden years" from the 1990's up to late 2003:



There, now show me how well you've done with all of your experience in online marketing. I think I've backed up my "claim" All I suggested to you was to start your own site with your own money involved and your own time and effort and then let people steal YOUR shit and post it for free on torrents and just see how well you do with your "branding bugs" and watermarks. Clown.

I'm curious if you can make 20X the money in mainstream why are you wasting your time arguing for free on a porn board?

Nobody here will be changing any laws. We may agree or disagree with them. We may get mad or happy with rulings, but we aren't going to change anything. The fight is between bigger companies and people like The Pirate Bay. You don't need to convince us that torrents are good.

I know what I make in porn. If I could make 20X that marketing mainstream via torrents you would never see me here because I would be keeping my mouth shut riding the gravy train.

You kn0w, I didn't bother this time. I just came in here, and saw this thread, usually I start from the first page, but recently I have wised up. There's impossible to teach people logical rational thinking, unless they are open about change. Also you probably have to sit them down face to face. It's probably a 30 points course. And with that I mean, it takes 30 weeks of college lectures, to teach some (most people) how to start thinking with their brains, get rid of their opinions and fears, and see the world for what it truly is.

Hell, this is the first post I stopped to read, the other posts above read to me "blah balha blah", very little reasoning substance, but well, you know I'm not gonna bother wasting my time here.

I'm out of this .-..now. But well worded!

And the other persons start to, or are still completely ignorrant about what we are speaking off.

It's more rewarding to just keep enjoying life with people who see's the world at the same pace as yourself, and don't dive upon other peoples heads, that are born a certain way.

You could check out some philosophy forums, to discuss things like life and everything and beyond. Goodluck keeping your sanity, having them on Gfy.

how many bands have you gotten signed with a major record label

how many it managers at fortune five hundred companies have implemented your research reports.

how many youtube personalities have you built up to make 5k a month.


we can all point to successes in our primary skill set


.

we can trade past success

nothing in the past will ever prove a future declaration like "always will run circles around you". Only a future promise can back that up. That why i specifically asked you agree to put your content in the public domain if you took any of the ideas i showed you.

Proof please. He posted a shot of his stats remote program. Please list the bands you have gotten signed to major labels.

He won't because he hasn't. He's trying to take credit in a round-a-bout way for the handful of bands who were able to market themselves on youtube. Of course since gideon is also NOT in the music business he doesn't know what he's talking about again. And he can't post any kind of stats because he hasn't yet made any money by marketing on torrents.

We all know the only way to make money on a torrent is either to be the OWNER of the torrent or to buy an ad spot on the torrent. The stolen content is the traffic generator, NOT the product. I suppose I could change my entire business and use "branding bugs" and watermarks to sell vibrators on Claudia-Marie's videos and then let the entire members area be ripped on torrents. Because nobody is going to buy a paysite membership off of the ripped vids.


Yes I can. I played my first gig in front of an audience at age 8. I played professionally in bands all over the world entertaining people as an adult since 1978. I'm a great entertainer and know just about every trick of the trade when it comes to entertaining an audience. Which is why I can say without fail I'll ALWAYS run circles around you in the entertainment and marketing of entertainment fields. I've forgotten more than you'll ever know.

It's that silly little thing called "Experience"
You may have heard of it while you were busy doing your meaningless "tests" that have no connection to actually DOING something.

because argueing with you guys exposes objections that would cost me real sales

people here argued i was dead wrong on law based on everything i said, if i had done that with a real customer i would have never gotten the sale.

I keep testing different arguement POV and legal cases, and i finally kept saying if you don't believe me hire a qualified lawyer take my arguements and run it by them.

A couple of you guys actually did, and if you look those guys now admit that what i said about the law was correct.

that little test has made me over 200k in last 2 years, because instead arguing with a real customer, i tell them i would like to meet with them and their lawyer and i will pay for his/her time.

I make the same points about fair use and their ultimate consequences (i bring the case references) i made to you guys, when their lawyers tell them that i am right they don't get intrenched in the battles we get into here.

when we give them a choice between hoping the laws will be rewriten so that the big studioes and record companies who currently screw them over will give them a tiny share of the actual sales or use the technology to drive the sales directly to themselves and keep most of the money, they end up accepting especially when we make performance based offers (pay us 3 cents per view instead of buying traffic directly from youtube at 15 cents per click(first 7 days)- keep the steady stream of traffic you that keeps coming in forever).

with tube sites like youtube, getting a massive spike in traffic on the first 7 days, gets you most ... honors and regular rotations in the recommended bar when ever new youtube viewers who match your interest log on. That why so many people buy enough traffic to get on the top 20 lists even though it is very expense. In the long term the steady stream of traffic makes that very cost effective (you will get 70-80% of your traffic for free if you spike in the first 7 days)

Doing the same thing using title optimization tricks that i figuired out by test submitting to porn tubes makes me a lot of money, but if i had to deal with this types of objections i would never get those sales. Arguing with you guys let me figure out, what kind of irrational/totally wrong legal point of view exist in my potential customers. Which i can then deal with nicely.


for example your bouncing around between us and eu laws, and mistakenly believing I was being inconsistant is going to change the way i deal with real customers. I am going to do some clarifications about what regions we are talking about. or point out that it hasn't been established in the US yet, but point out the key legal precedents that have already been established that will make it happen if the arguement is ever made under US law. not a 100% sure how to do that but, i will figuire it out but the simple fact is i would have never realized it until it cost me a real sale if it were not for the arguement with you.

Gideon, you are a character.

I love when you use the words "we" in your posts.

By the way, I know shit gets heated. But I want you to know that I don't dislike you at all. I did at first when you were telling me that you could monetize my content anytime you wanted to...but I've let that anger go now.

I think you are a bright guy, but in my opinion you're using your intelligence in a way that isn't going to be profitable in the long run. No big deal. Your obviously smart enough that when the time comes you'll shift gears and do something else.

In the meantime I'm gonna argue every point you make that I think is incorrect.

Well, I guess that puts an end to it then doesn't it. It seems that either earlier in this thread or another recent thread like this you had talked about how you were still testing things and how some things worked and some didn't and you were ironing things out to optimize it. You were stoked because you thought there was great potential in it. Now you are making tons of money and selling these same plans that were just being tested to fortune 500 companies and you making stars out of people on YouTube. That is awesome.

And somehow my objecting to people downloading music and movies that they haven't paid for has helped you learn how to deal with your clients problems? How so? If your client owns their material and they want to use your torrent marketing program what is the problem? There is none? There is no law that says you can't give something you own away for free if you want. So what would they have to object to?

The only reason I have ever mistook what you are saying when it comes to laws in different countries is because you talk in circles. You spin a web of bullshit that anyone without a decoder ring could get lost in. I ask about the Wolverine movie and you give me a song and dance about access shifting. I start to zero in on this access shifting stuff and eventually 10 posts later we get to the root of the deal which is that in the US there is no such thing as access shifting. Apparently there is other countries, but not the US, but you make sure to leave that little tidbit out of your answer to give the impression that you are correct. So it is no wonder people get confused.

In the end it really doesn't matter. You will do what you are going to do and I am going to my thing as well. We are pretty much powerless in this fight. The fight is eventually going to come down to the big companies VS websites like The Pirate Bay and there will also be heavy lobbying to stop torrent downloads at the ISP level. If they are successful, they can put a clamp on illegal downloads - at least in the US. If not they will have to drastically change their marketing plan and hope that works.

I personally feel that most torrent users use them to get things they don't want to pay for. They want music and movies and games and apps and they don't want to pay for them so they use torrents to get them. I also feel these people are primarily freeloaders who are going to be very difficult to monetize. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am right. Only time will tell.

Why do you repeat your irrelevant example to avoid my questions?
Running a torrent site with knowledge of criminal activity is NOT the same as producing legal content that are manipulated to something illegal by someone else without your knowledge.
If you know there is criminal activity going on at your torrent site - shouldn't you:

1. Make a statement on your website, that you do not tolerate it?
2. React upon knowledge of criminal activity?
3. Not ignore it, instead of just laugh about it and make money off it??

If you ignore 2 and 3, then 1 will have no logical, moral or legal value...

I expect you to answer straight, so let me answer your question too:
If you produce some legal content that are manipulated into some illegal, like "virtual" cp (like the situation in your earlier new link), then no, you can not be held responsible if it is without your knowledge. However, if you know then I think you are morally obligated to report it. Legally obligated? That depends on the law. In US you are legally obligated to report cp (also virtual?), and you could get punished you if you don't, but they can not punish you for "contributing", if that was not your purpose. Same apply for torrent websites.... You see, it is the purpose - in other words; how you act that defines right or wrong, and the laws and courts defines further the "level" and direction of your actions.

gideon, I do not think I'm pulling those percentages "out my ass". I read somewhere, that on a site like the pirate bay, it is estimated 95% illegal piracy. "Fair use" is nearly non-existant, and you know as well as me, that movie previews, pieces of music, trial software etc. is not what most people are sharing. Just go to their toplists, and you will see the proof. Your opinion on what is fair use or not, does not matter in those statistics...
Regarding porn, fair use also include giving credit by using a small and limited amount of content. If their intentions were fair use, then all webmasters - affiliate and site owners - would be all over the big torrent sites now. But you know, that is not going to happen, because it is considered "spam" from the pirate's side.

Everyone have the right to change things through their given free speech, including the defintions of fair use, but they can not do it by acting criminal or endorse anarchy. Then they just become a parody of their own cause and arguments. Of course, there are always things that a minority will consider unfair. Hell, I would like to drive faster, because I bought a fast car and consider myself a good driver, but that opinion does not give me the legal right to do so. I might not like it, but at least I have the right to speak against the majority. Driving fast will not change that...
The laws in the democratic world are made by democratic selected lawmakers, and the supreme courts can decide if those laws are unfair or not. If you are unsatisfied with the court rule, you can still confront the judgement, like in the piratebay case, and in the end you avoid future similar "unfair" rules, by doing it politically through new laws.
The main problem, as I see it, is that technology is developing faster than the democratic policy process and that courts can handle. It would be in best interest for all, to establish right/wrong asap when new issues and conflicts arrive. Unfortunately that is not how things work, and I think the pirates are just happy about that, because they exploit it.... If every copyright holder had the chance, easily and fast, to make use of their rights, then every case would totally send the pirate bay owners to thousands of years in prison...

because they have the bias attitude that the government is going to fix the problem and turn back the clock to the time that they were all making good money with the established tryed and true method that has worked for years. They don't want to try something that worked in porn (but obviously won't work in mainstream)

sound familiar. I have to overcome those objects in the real world.

Look at robbie for example i have offered to show you guys a step by step action plan on exactly how to do, all robbie as to do is agree that he will never use any of the things i show you.

Yet instead telling him to agree, people keep saying thing like "well said" when he backpeddles on making such a declaration.


how many times have you convinced yourself of something and you keep arguing a point even though you know your wrong, and you can't produce a single fact to back up your statement.

for example pitch i recently made didn't try and convince anyone i was right.
I layed out the same arguement i do here to the lawyer but instead of saying see i am right i ask the question "is it possible that arguement will work in court if made"

they always say yes.

so i lay out th two choices, you can sit there hoping that the government will change the laws so that this "loophole" (air quotes) is closed, but continue to lose money day in and day out until the problem is solved that OR you try these solutions that have worked before but you are not sure will work for your market.
If they succeed in making you way more money then you are losing keep doing them "When" the government finally wakes up and restores your "rights". if not lock it down again and go back to the good old days.
Worst case senerio they don't work and you are no worse off then you currently are. Since we offer a performance guarrentee we are the only ones who take the risk when that happens.


in the context of a case in europe against the pirate bay where the precedent had been set

your examples jumped to the US, not mine, i was following your lead. I spoke in the context of the question. I am still correct, this case is in europe, not the united states. The US laws have the same fair use context, nothing in fair use requires that the source has to be legal. In fact the precedent has been set that even if the source is 100% illegal fair use still apply under those 4 conditions. The only thing that is stopping this arguement from being set in the US is the suing of someone who realizes this precedent exists in europe. And all the current outstanding cases have such an opening for the arguement to be made. 1 download != 1 lost sale arguement makes sense both on a legal basis and on a completely logical one.



Unfortunately you will never know if your right or wrong until you actually test out selling to them correctly. It not that hard to tweek a campaign so that such sales will happen.