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As long as it is just them, fantastic. -
nothing against spamhaus -- but if this happened it might force some foreign companies to pay attention to their u.s. lawsuits. keep in mind, they all do business with the u.s. and in the u.s. and then shrug off lawsuits.
lindsay - read that article - it's going to happen to you too
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hahaha owned!Comment
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Excellent news. Spamhaus are 100% scammers that list anyone for spamming for whatever reasons they want without any proof whatsoever. They need to be stopped IMO
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so much for independent judge jury and executioners with no accountability to anyone, anywhere. who could have seen that ultimately falling apart?
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While i'd like to see spamhaus get fisted in the bunghole, I am not too happy with the idea that their domain could/can get yanked by a US court putting pressure on ICANN.
Next thing you know US courts are yanking domains from non Americans all over the place....
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And this affects me how? It doesn't. They ignored a lawsuit in a US court, now they must face the consequences. Fuck 'em.
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I personally think this is very bad... i hate spamhaus BUT if we allow the us GOV to have control of the domain names that mean they can eventually control what is on the internet.Originally posted by rayadp05Comment
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i think there has to be some balance and some consequences as well for acting illegally even if they are doing something they feel is right.
i dont know how long you have been around but i am sure that Evan at least remembers Paul Vixey/RBL and all the shit they caused by unilaterally blocking shitloads of IPs and IP blocks at their own descretion - mostly to people who had absolutely nothing to do with spam or spammers - which at one time included everyone that was using Ibill. even though Ibill fully supported the worlds top spammers at the time in more ways they ever admitted to, 1000's of others got fucked hard and had no idea why or what was going on.Comment
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Spamhaus had way too much power and it was good for them to get knocked down. I think this is a special case, and will set a precedent. I don't think it will end up being a catchall to get domains yanked all over the place.
I wonder if icann may fill the void left vacant by spamhaus, and fight spammers directly.
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Who's the registrar for spamhaus?
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this is bad news for the internet....censorship is never good we need to get ICANN and ARIN and other organizations to be like the UN and be operated on US soil but not fall under its laws/rules.Comment
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dumb asses
Unfortunately, Spamhaus neglected to make the argument that it is not subject to US court orders at the outset the case. Had it done so, e360insight may have been forced to pursue Spamhaus in the UK court system. Instead, when the case was originally filed in state court, the blacklisting group successfully argued that it should be moved the federal court. It was only that after the proceedings began in the District Court that Spamhaus decided not fight it.Comment
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Ah yes. ownage.Comment
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This isn't US government censorship. This is a foreign company that was nailed in a US court and then very publically laughed off the judgement against them.
The confiscation of domains after a civil court judgement isnn't anything new. It's been going on for awhile in things like copyright infringement cases where the guilty party is not capable of paying the judgement.
If Spamhaus can't pay the millions they were ordered to pay, then it's time to seize property. In this case, their domain name is the easiest thing to get at.Comment
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I would be much happier if a more reliable entity was handling the spam control. spamhaus are a bunch of goofs who pull the trigger at the mere mention of the word spam. Years ago I had a battle with them because they had some IPs (for fuck sake) listed that had previously been used by a spammer. It took forever to prove to them that I wasn't a spammer and I had just been given the block of IPs by AT&T. I don't think some private mom and pop organization should have that much power.Spamhaus had way too much power and it was good for them to get knocked down. I think this is a special case, and will set a precedent. I don't think it will end up being a catchall to get domains yanked all over the place.
I wonder if icann may fill the void left vacant by spamhaus, and fight spammers directly.Comment
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I tend to agree, but at the same time, if they were ordered by a court to stop blocking the guy, then they should have complied. You can BET YOUR ASS that had it been a US company, there would have been all sorts of fines and shit imposed, and the domain would have been yanked.PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic
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yeah.... i just read the article. holy shit. they started engaging, fought to move it to a federal court.. then dropped off the radar ... resulting in a default judgement against them, now they are trying to argue that they are not subject to the federal courts authority?
weird.
i guess it was nice of their attorneys to put down the crayons, coloring books and finger paints to make the first arguments... too bad the federal court appearance apparently came at nap time.Comment
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the only reason they would be able to is because spamhaus tried to fight it in AMERICAN court system and asked for it to be brought to federal court then they didnt show up.. This wouldnt even be a question if they hadnt tried to fight it first. As far as i understand it if they had just ignored the whole thing they would be finehatisblack at yahoo.comComment
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They deserve it, they blacklist any ip they feel like and when you try to get it reversed they laugh at you. They even listed some of my ip's as a Rosko listed spammer and when i contacted them about it they told me i was this person and they wouldnt do anything. I hope they go down in flames!!!!!Comment
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It's a stupid idea.. If ICANN caves to the preasure of the US, then it will have to cave to the preasure of any country which means US companies could have their domains yanked if they are guilty and convicted on some law in another country. Just think about that for a minute.Comment
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Spamhaus wishes to impose their will using US legal jurisdiction, yet doesn't want to be legally underpinned by US legal jurisdiction.
Catch 22
Tuff noogies for them.Comment
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oy vey, the drama!Comment
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Exactly the reason all TLD's need to be placed under the control of their respective countries and all under the umbrella of the new proposed international management committee. (Not that this may prove to be any better, but the US has no license to manage domains on behalf of any nation.)
And, sure.. agree on Spamhaus - that is not really the issue.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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Spammers are funny.
The good thing is that this will be the end to the US ICANN.
I'm surprised that some spammers here actually think that Spamhaus can be shut down. It's used by many ISPs, they'll continue to use it after the domain change also.Comment
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if you notice 9/11 of the large email providers, yahoo/hotmail/ect don't use spamhaus listings.Comment
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This sounds about right to me.Spamhaus believes that as a UK corporation, the US District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division was the wrong venue to try a case.Sleep well, and dream of large women.
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Mmmm... kinda agree. It's like some court in the UK hearing offenses against UK law when the defendant is a US corp and with no presence in the UK - totally absurd. Even worse is the fact that the judge decided the case without representation from the defendants.
Can't see *any* judge in the UK (or possibly the EU) even starting to listen to a case where the defendants are a foreign entity and not in court - it basically falls outside the courts jurisdiction, regardless the activity is "international" by the nature of the net.
Bottom line, the "offense" must be an offense under the laws of the country hosting the legal entity - eg Spamhaus and the "host country" is the UK in this instance. All laws of other countries are irrelevant unless they are extradictable offenses or stuff like murder, drugs trafficking etc.
But sure - would be nice to see Spamhaus go
PS Another recent example of this is the gaming laws in the US. There is a US citizen wanted in connection with gaming operations outside the US. Wondered why the US were slow in issuing a promised extradiction application - it turns out the courts where the gaming is controlled from have no intention of listening to extradiction agreements because the alleged offenses are not in violation of any local laws.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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Mmmm.. no defense is necessary. The only laws applicable are the laws of the country under which Spamhaus operates - that country is the UK, not the US, Nigeria, Pakistan or wherever.
If an aggrieved party wishes to raise a legal action against a corp in another jurisdiction - it's normal to make application for the case to be heard within that jurisdiction, - not in another country (eg.. in this case the US).
Not saying I agree with the operation of Spamhaus - that's another matter
Last edited by Webby; 10-09-2006, 06:49 PM.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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and ICANN is regulated by US Dept of commerce.
and commercial email (even so-called "unsolicited" email) is LEGAL in the USA if it follows certain guidelines.
and when something is legal, (even if folks don't like it) you can expect the US Dept of Commerce to force the issue.Comment
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That is exactly the objection by the majority of TLD countries - they are not interested in having the US Dept of Commerce manage their TLD's - and something that is likely to change in the foreseeable future.
It may go away and blow in the wind, but the Spamhaus incident may end up as more "food" for the majority of nations who wish to manage their own TLD's.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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interesting read wounder how this one will play out.Comment
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i hope spamhaus goes down, i doubt it'll happen, but i hope they'll be at least fined for few mills ... that would make my day
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I agree. I've dealt with Spamhaus and they feel as if they are always right and everyone else is wrong - with no legal recourse. They fail to understand their actions might harm legit companies and these companies have no rights.Spamhaus had way too much power and it was good for them to get knocked down. I think this is a special case, and will set a precedent. I don't think it will end up being a catchall to get domains yanked all over the place.
I wonder if icann may fill the void left vacant by spamhaus, and fight spammers directly.
While Spamhaus might have good intentions, they need to understand that their actions can hurt others.Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NYComment
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Looks like they said GFY to the court and the court came back with a bigger GFY to them.
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what goes around comes around. Steve Linford is going to get his ass beat either way.Greed is Good
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